150 results for: "parent's%20rights"
Foster care, special education, and learning and thinking differences: What you need to know
Working closely with the school is key to getting the best help for kids with learning and thinking differences. But if you’re a foster parent, that can be difficult.Foster parents don’t have the same legal rights as biological or adoptive parents. So, you may be limited in how involved you can be with the school, and in how much you can advocate for your foster child.But even with these limitations, you can still play a vital role in helping your foster child work on challenges. Read on to learn more about foster care and learning and thinking differences.Legal rights in the special education processIDEA is the federal special education law. It gives biological and adoptive parents certain rights, starting with the right to participate in their child’s special education. Under the law, they are presumed to be the primary decision makers for their child. That means schools must try to involve them.That’s true even if their child is in foster care. Parents have these rights even if they live in another state or can’t travel to the school. It’s also not unheard of for parents to call in to school meetings by phone from prison to participate.As a result, foster parents often have few rights. Depending on the state they live in, foster parents may not even have the right to know if their foster child has been identified by the school as having a learning or thinking difference.It’s also not clear whether foster parents have the right to view school records. Some legal experts think that child welfare agencies can release the records to foster parents under FERPA. Others think that biological or adoptive parents must give their consent first.Here are some of the things foster parents may not have the legal rights to do:Sign educational formsConsent to evaluations and servicesRequest an evaluationAttend evaluation or IEP team meetings (unless the child’s parents say it’s OK)All this can change if the biological or adoptive parents have lost or given up their parental rights through court order. Or if they can’t be located or won’t respond after repeated attempts to contact.In these cases, IDEA allows others, like foster parents, to serve as the educational decision maker for the child.That decision might be made by the school or a court. Foster parents can then take steps to be involved in the child’s special education. That includes going to IEP meetings and signing consent for evaluations.If the foster parent doesn’t want that role, the school or the state may appoint someone else. That person might be a relative, mentor, or someone from an approved list. (A lot of this can vary depending on state laws regarding special education and foster parents’ contracts. So it’s important to check what those laws say about your rights.)Foster parents may not have the same rights as biological or adoptive parents. But they often have valuable information to share with the school. Many schools look to foster parents to learn more about the child. Sometimes, the biological or adoptive parents may ask for foster parents to be more involved as well.If you have a foster child in the special education process, it’s important to ask the school about what your rights are.Finding out about learning challengesThe information available to foster parents can be very limited. If the child welfare agency does not provide you with school records, you may not know how much your foster child struggles in school, or why. But you still may be able to get an idea of the challenges in other ways.First, your foster child might tell you and share what’s happening at school. You can also ask direct questions like:“Are you having a hard time in school?”“Are you getting help at school?”“Do you have shorter homework assignments than the other kids in class?”There are certain behaviors that might be signs of learning and thinking differences, too. Your foster child might say things like “I’m dumb” or “I can’t do it.” You might see signs of anxiety about school, such as your foster child refusing to go to school or frequently complaining of stomachaches or headaches in order to stay home.You might get an indication from teachers, too. The teacher might tell you that your foster child has a hard time in class and describe the difficulties. In that case, you can ask if the teacher could recommend strategies to help your foster child at home. (Learn more about how to decode teacher comments for signs of learning and thinking differences.)A child and family team (CFT) meeting is a good place to ask questions about your foster child’s challenges in school. These meetings might also be called family team meetings or family group decision-making meetings. They’re run by your state’s child welfare agency.CFT meetings include parents, other family members, social workers, foster parents, and people in the family’s support network. You might also want to ask if the biological or adoptive parents would allow you to see school records and attend IEP meetings or any disciplinary meetings.The sooner you know that your foster child has learning and thinking differences, the sooner you can provide support at home.Risks and protections for kids in foster careFoster care and problems at school are closely linked. Data show that kids in foster care are at greater risk of having learning and thinking differences. They’re also less likely to graduate from high school than kids who aren’t in foster care — whether or not they have learning and thinking differences.Many kids who enter foster care have slipped through the cracks at school. It’s often not until they’re in the foster care system that they’re identified as eligible for special education. By then, they’ve lost valuable time for intervention and special education supports and services.Being in the foster care system can create disruptions that can cause kids to fall further behind. Transferring schools is known to set students back as much as six months academically. Missing school or transferring to a new school can be especially hard for kids in foster care who have learning and thinking differences. Here’s why:It takes time for teachers to learn what supports each child needs. And it takes time for kids to learn what is expected of them at a new school.Schools don’t always teach the same information at the same time. The new school might expect students to already know something that your foster child wasn’t taught at the previous school.Kids in foster care also often have a harder time trusting adults and building new relationships.High school students have the added risk of losing their credits if they transfer in the middle of the year.The Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) offers some protections for students in foster care who are switching schools. Under ESSA:Students are allowed to stay in their original school if it’s in the child’s best interest.Schools must work with the child welfare agency on a transportation plan for students in foster care.Schools must immediately enroll kids who are in foster care even if they don’t have paperwork or documentation. The school can make the request for records from the previous school.If the child has an IEP, the new school must provide comparable services to the child’s current IEP. The school can develop a new IEP or can have the IEP transferred from the previous school.Learn more about what happens to an IEP when a child switches schools. Emotional challenges and school disciplineTrauma is common for kids in foster care. It might be the result of abuse or neglect, or of being separated from their parents. Kids who have experienced trauma may act out both in and out of school. Having learning and thinking differences can create even more anxiety and negative behavior.Kids who are in foster care are more likely to be disciplined at school than other students. So are kids with learning and thinking differences. They sometimes act out when they don’t think they can do what’s being asked of them.Here are some ways you can help:Allow your foster child to express feelings, even if they’re intense. Try to remain calm. Remember that it’s normal for kids in foster care to be upset or angry. This is especially true when a child has been placed in a new foster home.Talk with your foster child about social and emotional challenges.Talk to teachers about your foster child’s home situation. If teachers know that a child is going through a hard time, they can provide more supports at school. They may also give more leeway and be more understanding.Observe and take notes on your foster child’s behavior. Share them with the school. Also share any specific challenges your child expresses about schoolwork, assignments and coping with life at school.Understanding learning and thinking differencesMany learning and thinking differences run in families. So, it’s sometimes easier for biological parents to understand their child’s challenges than it is for foster parents. The more you know about learning and thinking differences, the easier it will be for you to help and support your foster child at home.Get basic facts about learning and thinking differences. Experience what it’s like to have learning and thinking differences with our Through Your Child’s Eyes videos. And watch as an expert talks about what to do when you and your child don’t “get” each other.
In ItEvaluations for special education: Introducing our new podcast
How do schools evaluate kids for special education? Season 1 of our new Understood Explains podcast answers these questions and more. How do schools evaluate kids for special education? What’s the process like? How do families get started? Season 1 of our new podcast, Understood Explains, answers these questions and more. In this bonus episode, Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra talk with Dr. Andy Kahn, a psychologist who spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids for schools. Andy shares why he’s excited to host Season 1 of Understood Explains, which breaks down the special education evaluation process for families. Tune it to learn more about the podcast, evaluations, and misconceptions families often have about special education.Related resources Listen: Understood Explains podcast Learning about evaluations FAQs about school evaluations Episode transcriptAmanda: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin. Gretchen: And I'm Gretchen Vierstra. Amanda: And we are the hosts of "In It," from the Understood Podcast Network. Gretchen: Officially, we're between seasons right now, but you're hearing from us because we want to share a sneak preview of a new Understood podcast we're very excited about. Amanda: It's called "Understood Explains." It's hosted by Dr. Andy Kahn, and we have Andy sitting right here next to me to tell us all about it. Andy, welcome to "In It." Andy: Thanks. Gretchen: Yay Andy! Amanda: So, Andy, before we get into the podcast, maybe you can just briefly tell us a little bit about yourself. Andy: Sure. So, I'm a licensed psychologist and I've been in practice for over 20 years. I spent the better part of that 20 years working within the school systems. So, doing evaluations, consultation, and supporting families within our communities. So, came to Understood to become a subject matter expert in learning and psychology. Gretchen: So, then can you tell us a little bit about this new podcast you're hosting? Andy: So, there's a lot to say about this podcast. The purpose of the podcast is really two major points. We're breaking down the special education evaluation process primarily for parents to give them information about, you know, what does it look like? How does that referral process work? How do we make those decisions? Should we do an evaluation? Should we not? Helping parents learn about their rights. And the second, really most important part is, helping them communicate with their kids about that process. That's where we fold in Amanda, who joins us and talks about all of those things. What can you say to your kids? How do you make them a part of the process? Amanda: Andy, I also know that you've really wanted to do something like this for a long time. Tell me why. Andy: Yeah. So, you know, having done evaluations for years, I've done thousands of evaluations. And it was no easy decision to walk away from schools to do this kind of work. But in a word, I was really focused on impact. The idea that the process that I did with my families over the years was something that was highly cooperative and collaborative. So much of it was about giving them information so that they could be involved and they could be calm in the process and feel relaxed enough to know, What are we doing this for? How are we going to make this really work for my child? So, for me, so much of this is about taking what I felt that I was really proud of doing for so many years in my evaluations and putting together a podcast that could help parents, you know, learn things about the process to really maximize the impact and to absolutely reduce the anxiety. So, we have psychologists, school psychologists, special ed teachers, administrators, who come in and give us input about the process and then we bounce out with you, Amanda. You know, the parent perspective, plus how to talk to your kids. Gretchen: Yeah. Can you give us a sneak peek into some of the topics of the different episodes? Andy: We've got 10 episodes, and the episodes start with things like understanding, making the decision about do I want to do an evaluation process? And understanding that an evaluation process can start from a parent requesting it or from the school saying, "Hey, we're seeing something. We'd like to request this process." We talk about parents' rights and you know, what is it that you are allowed to do? What is it that you have a right to receive? And what are the schools supposed to do in this process with you so that you can protect your rights? You know, no one's going to assume that a school is looking to do anything but the best for their kids. But sometimes things go wrong and parents, if they have that knowledge, can really keep the process honest and on track. Amanda: So speaking of knowledge, we keep using the word evaluation. Can you tell us what that means? Because I just realized we haven't even covered that yet. Andy: Yeah, yeah. And I think evaluation is one of the words that we use. We use evaluation or assessment. People might say testing and you know, all these words that become really highly charged. And evaluation is really where we're looking at what the child's skills are in certain areas, which could be anywhere from academic skills, social-emotional skills, overall behavioral functioning, and for other professionals, things like speech and language evaluations or occupational therapy or even physical therapy. So, there's a lot of bits and pieces that go into understanding how a child can be successful and the things that could be factors in their daily functioning. Gretchen: Certainly not just one little test a child takes and it's done. It's a process, right? Andy: Absolutely. And it's a process that has a lot of moving parts and lots of people. So, I think that, you know, for a parent who might not be in the room because their kid's doing the assessment, the more they can know, the more comfortable they can feel and the more input they can have. So, it's yeah, that we have to unpack that and that's a great question. Amanda: Can you talk a little bit about what sorts of misconceptions parents and caregivers might bring to this process before they understand it? Andy: Yeah, sure. You know, everyone who enters this process, and from the parent perspective, something I learned that really came home from doing so many assessments, was that parents were once students. So, their experience of having been students — or maybe if they had challenges with learning and thinking differences — things have changed a lot over the years. The experience for people of my age going through school could have been very different from what their kids are going through right now. Amanda: It's such a good point, right? Because I think a lot of parents, especially in a certain age bracket, they think special education means you're in a separate room, you're in a separate place of the building, that you don't get to be with the other kids at the same age, that it's a different kind of instruction. And that's not the case anymore. Andy: And it once was, you know, as a kid going to New York City schools when I was young, you know, it was if a kid got identified for services, you really might not have seen them again, except maybe after school or on the way to school. So, for parents who might or might not have had, you know, a positive experience in their own education, it really becomes a loaded process. And you have to take that into account. You know the primary thing that I think that always echoed with me is how are the parents responding to this process? What does it lead them to feel emotionally? And then in turn, you know, having a child is like having your heart on the outside of your chest. Amanda: Oh, yes. Andy: So, you know, if your child is now being asked to go through a process, maybe you've went through or things that you have, you know, beliefs that are based on when you went to school that can be really, really unsettling. And to give parents the right information so they can know that they're in charge of making decisions is incredibly powerful. Gretchen: What do parents most often struggle with around this process? What tends to be the bumpiest parts along the way?Andy: For parents of much younger children — the one thing I'll say that I noticed my entire career — little kids don't mind leaving a classroom. They don't mind getting the extra support.Amanda: They love it. As a kindergarten teacher, I can tell you that they loved being the one walking out with the person, they loved it.Andy: You know, for so many parents, it's often the idea about "I don't want my kid to be labeled. I don't want my kid to look different. I don't want my kid to be picked on because we find that they have something that they need that's different than other kids." And I think that people perceive the process and the outcomes as being public, that somehow because you're doing it, everybody knows. Amanda: It's that permanent record thing that people think about, right? There's a permanent and I will just be the first one to admit that as a parent, I know that fear. And I was a teacher, I was an educator, I was in special education. And when I first did this with my first child, I went through evaluation, I had this like, "Nope, nope, don't want to do that. Don't want that label, don't." But, you know, people like you Andy make it easier for us to understand like it's not a permanent record situation. Andy: And I think some of us would say that, you know, we're building in the idea of expectation that's realistic and putting people in the position to ask questions that builds comfort. And I think that in and of itself, if you're comfortable enough to say, "I don't understand this" or "This scares me," or "Heck no, I don't want my kid to get that," then it gives us the opportunity to make... the process can be therapeutic, right? It can be, If we're going through this process together and we're learning about your child together, can you come to a conclusion about "Wow, you know, my kid wasn't just refusing work because they're naughty or because they're a pain or because of some momentary frustration we all experience as parents." But it's more about "Well, I didn't know my kid wasn't able to process that information or struggles with reading or can't focus without support." So, I think that a well-done evaluation is a therapeutic process, and I think that we can't underestimate the impact of that. Amanda: I'm going to turn the tables and ask Gretchen a question if you don't mind. Did you participate in these processes as a teacher? Gretchen: Yes. Amanda: What was it like for you on that side? Gretchen: Yeah. Sometimes families were really invested and interested in getting the evaluation done. And so, they were super involved from the beginning and talking to me about it and gathering the information. But then there were other families who were scared. This was the first time that anyone was bringing up that perhaps their child struggled with something. And for some families hearing that, it was hard to take, right? Because lots of families envision their child as, quote unquote, perfect, right? And then you're told, well, wait a minute, we actually want to find ways to better support your child. And for some of these families, it was like, "What? What do you mean? They're not excelling at every single thing without any kind of support? Because that's what I expected." Andy: Right. Absolutely. Gretchen: You know? And so, it could be tough sometimes to just be part of that process with them because it was scary. Amanda: So, Andy, for teachers like Gretchen or me, because I did this as a teacher too, and I'm going to admit that when I first started, I didn't understand what my role as a teacher was. What is their role in this process, and do you have advice or practices to share with them? Andy: You know, I think the first thing that I would share with teachers across the board is, any time you're going to involve yourself in the process, take a moment to imagine it's your child who's being evaluated first. That empathic approach says, okay, this is sensitive. This is something where you're describing something that could feel critical, like you're giving some sort of negative description of someone's child and really sharing from the very, very beginning that we are focused on making your child's success our goal. And I think really saying "We are working together. This is not a tug of war. We're not on opposite sides of the rope. You and I are both pulling the rope in the same direction. But if you're not sure or you're uncomfortable with part of this, let's talk that through." And teachers can often say, you know, kids who have had this kind of testing, who have found that they have differences, they really can benefit. There's a lot of stuff we can do in reassuring them about what it's going to lead to. Yeah. So, there's, you know, there's a little bit of benefit in just understanding, "You know what? Your kid is going to manage this fine if we support them the right way. It's much harder to break your kids than you think," you know. Gretchen: Right. Yeah. Andy: Yeah. And I think that one of the keys in terms of being successful as a teacher, as a psychologist, as a parent, is always being focused first on what you like about the child. And I'll be completely forthright, I've worked with some extremely challenging kids, and I can say that with very high certainty, I really, really learned to love all of these kids because they all have something about them that's cool and interesting. And for us to be successful, focusing on those things is important. And let me tell you about what we can do that might be helpful to your child or something. And let me tell you about something we may need to do to help your child. So for teachers, we've got a lot to offer them. And just to reset, right? It's just a little reset for your brain, because this is benevolent people looking to help kids. Gretchen: For the teachers listening, I do want to say that it's okay to not know, right? And I remember starting off and being handed a form like, "Okay, we're going to be evaluating this kid. I need to fill out this test, check out these things." And like what? What is this? If you haven't been trained and you're not familiar with what you're supposed to do, then talk to someone and find out because you don't want to go at it alone and you want to do a great job for the family. So, finding an ally who can help you is great. Andy: And think about it, just let's zoom out here for a second. You know, think about what that looks like for kids with learning and thinking differences. They don't know something, so they get anxious and they don't want to step out and make a mistake. But what we're saying across the board here is "If you don't know, that's okay." Amanda: That was part of the fun of being able to come on and have those conversations with Andy, is we unpacked some of that. We looked at how as a parent, do you look at what you need to learn, and then how do you pass that on to your child? Andy: And the best part about that is when you have multiple perspectives talking about something like that. Amanda, you come up with things that I wasn't thinking of in that moment. So, when we bring in the experts at the beginning of each session, then we have Amanda and I chatting, I think for me, the greatest surprise about it was I kept learning things about perspectives that I wasn't taking. You know, as much as I've done this my whole career, I kept stumbling across bits and pieces like, "Okay, that's cool. I never thought about it that way," You know? And I think that's really what's powerful about this, is getting people who know a lot of stuff to talk together because none of us by ourselves knew enough to tell you everything. Gretchen: So last but not least, Andy, how can people get your podcast? Andy: Our podcast it's on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Amanda: Part of the Understood Podcast Network. Gretchen: Yay, it's everywhere, people!Gretchen: Andy, thank you so much for joining us on "In It" to talk about your podcast "Understood Explains." We're so excited for people to listen to it. Andy: Thanks so much for having me. Amanda: Thanks for listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network. And remember, there's lots more where this came from. You can find all our past episodes by subscribing to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts or on our website, go to Understood.org/podcast/in-it. Gretchen: We'll be back very soon with Season 4 of the show. A reminder, it's not too late to let us know what topics you'd like us to cover. Is there something you've been struggling with or wanting to celebrate that you think would be of interest to other folks who are in it? Send us an email at init, that's one word, i-n-i-t @understood.org with your suggestions. Amanda: In It is produced by Julie Subrin. Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer.Gretchen: Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
What is the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)?
To get special education services for a child, you have to follow a legal process. The most important law for this process is the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). IDEA is the nation’s special education law. It gives rights and protections to kids with disabilities. It covers them from birth through high school graduation or age 21 (whichever comes first). Parents and legal guardians also have rights under the law. IDEA places two big responsibilities on states and their public schools.First, school districts must provide a free appropriate public education (FAPE) to kids with disabilities. And these kids must learn side by side with peers as much as possible — something called the least restrictive environment, or LRE. Schools must find and evaluate students who may have disabilities, at no cost to families. This is known as Child Find. If a child has a qualifying disability, schools must offer special education and related services (like speech therapy and counseling) to meet the child’s unique needs. These are provided through an Individualized Education Program (IEP). The goal is to help students make progress in school.Second, schools have to give parents a voice in their child’s education. At every point in the process, IDEA gives parents specific rights and protections. These are called procedural safeguards. For example, one safeguard is that a school must get consent from parents before providing services to kids.The reach of IDEA goes beyond traditional public schools. It includes public magnet and charter schools. The law also provides early intervention services to infants and toddlers up to age 3. Finally, IDEA may impact some students in private schools.
Understood Explains Season 1Bonus episode: What I wish I’d known sooner about evaluations for special education
Get evaluation tips from parents who have been through the process at least once — and experts who have been through it hundreds of times. Parents, teachers, and psychologists all have something they wish they’d known sooner about how kids are evaluated for special education. This bonus episode of Understood Explains offers tips from parents who have been through the evaluation process at least once — and experts who have been through it hundreds of times. Related resourcesHow to talk to your child about getting evaluatedEvaluation rights: What you need to knowEpisode transcriptLeslie: My name is Leslie and I'm from Little Rock. My eldest daughter was diagnosed at age 7 with dyslexia and unspecified learning disorders. This is what I wish I knew the most before an evaluation. I wish I knew what the heck was evaluation!Andy: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "Understood Explains." I'm your host, Andy Kahn, here with a bonus episode. Our first season covered every part of the process that school districts use to evaluate children for special education services. In those first 10 episodes, I talked with parents who've been through the evaluation process at least once — and experts who have been through it hundreds of times. But at one point, each of those people were brand-new to this process — like I imagine many of you listening are now. Something you didn't hear in the other episodes was this: At the end of our conversations, we asked our guests what they wish they would've known sooner about the evaluation process. We got a bunch of different answers from parents and experts alike. And I found each of their perspectives to be helpful, enlightening, or just encouraging for those at the beginning of their evaluation journeys. My hope is that by sharing some of these answers, it'll leave you feeling better prepared to take on school evaluations with your child. First, let's hear from some parents.Jennifer: Hi, my name is Jennifer from Atlanta. I have a son, Nathan, who's 11. He has dyslexia, dysgraphia, and ADHD. So I wish I would have known when I started this process with my son, when I first requested that first evaluation, I was just suspecting that there was reading — unexpected reading problems. And so because my concerns were about reading, that's really what the school focused on when they evaluated him. And we kind of missed that bigger picture. To me, at the time in my head, I was like, OK, if it's dyslexia, we can remediate dyslexia, and then he's going to be fine. But we did that. We found out it was dyslexia, we remediated the dyslexia, and then he wasn't fine. There was more. I wish that I would have been more open to the fact that maybe there's other challenges as well that we need to address. But in my mind, it was just like, if I can just get this one thing, and we can fix this one thing, everything will be OK. And I feel like it might have been a little easier on me emotionally if I would have not been so certain that that one thing was going to solve all our problems. Keith: My name is Keith and I live in Columbus, Georgia. And my son's name is Elijah. He's 11 years old and he's been diagnosed with ADHD. If I had to state or describe something I wish I would have known earlier about ADHD and the diagnosis, I will just say, knowing more about it. I didn't understand what the parameters or what the symptoms of it was. Had I known about it probably earlier, I would have been able to take a more proactive role in assisting him in managing it.Andy: One theme that came up often in these conversations with our guests was the focus of our third episode: Your rights in the evaluation process.Michele: My name is Michele, and I live in the Bronx, New York. What I wish I had known sooner about the evaluation process is the rights of the parents, the rights of definitely of the student, and how the process is supposed to go. A lot of times the focus is taken away from the process and what's best for the child and just being right. Well, I'm, you know, we've made a determination. This is what's best for the child. It's right. But if the parent feels differently, then the parent needs to go with their gut instinct, because sometimes it's not right. And never, ever stop advocating and finding the best possible solution for your child. Andy: Let’s move to some of the experts who were guests on our show. One of them had some advice I think all parents and caregivers should take to heart.Christina: My name is Christina. I was a special educator for 10 years and I now currently work at a private clinic that offers neuropsychological evaluations for parents who are concerned that their student's academic needs might require special education services. Thinking about my experience as an educator, and all the years that I spent on school evaluation teams, whenever we arrived at the place where we were discussing recommendations for students' plans, because they had been evaluated, and we were going to determine what their program was going to look like, I wish I had known that there were recommendations that I could make that even if our school didn't offer it, students might still receive that service. An example of that might be a specialized classroom setting like a 12:1, where there are 12 students and one teacher. And that smaller class setting sometimes allowed students to really get a handle on the academic content that is being instructed. Sometimes, though, I didn't always recommend that because it wasn't necessarily what the school offered that I was working in. And it was important to remember that it wasn't necessarily about what the school offered as much as what the child needed that needed to be recommended. And that's something that moving forward I've kept in mind.Andy: Another expert guest had some insight on parents interacting with schools — and why being seen as a kind, helpful collaborator is more than just a nice thing to do.Andrew: Hi, I'm Andrew Lee. I'm an Understood editor. And I'm also a lawyer who has authored studies on disability and education rights in schools. One thing I wish parents learned sooner about the evaluation process is that the notion of collaborating with the school is not just something that's nice or friendly or sweet. It actually has some huge benefits for you.First of all, it makes sure that you get the best result for your child, because you're working in the best manner with a school. Second, down the road, if there's ever any serious conflict or dispute with the school, oftentimes, someone new like a mediator or a hearing officer will come in and look at what's happened. And if they see that you've been a real partner with the school, and you've tried your best to work with the school to get to a solution, they're more likely to side with you in whatever that dispute is.Now, when I'm talking about collaboration, I'm not just saying go along with the flow and do whatever the school wants. I'm saying that you can be assertive about what your child needs, but at the same time, be polite and respectful and be a good partner in the process.Andy: Let’s hear from one more expert.Ellen: Hi, I'm Ellen Braaten. I'm a child psychologist who specializes in evaluating kids with learning and attention differences. I'm also the mother of two children, one who also has attention differences.What I wish I knew when I was first starting out as a psychologist is something that's kind of obvious. And it's that kids grow up — that most of the kids I see, regardless of how much they are struggling now, grow up to be successful, competent adults. And I don't think I could have really understood that until I saw kids grow into adulthood. Until I saw kids who I evaluated who seemed to have significant issues with things like reading, or social skills, or attention differences grow up to find the area in adulthood that was right just for them. And so it's been wonderful to see that. It also helps me, as a psychologist, realize that my goal right now is to reassure parents, to let them know that every child finds his or her own way, or their own way. And that what we need to do in the present is to figure out how to get them there. Andy: Before we wrap up, I want to share one thing I wish I would have known sooner. I've been evaluating kids for nearly 20 years. And at some point, I started telling parents that it's a lot harder to break your kids than you think. You see, kids are resilient. And even though the evaluation process may be nerve-racking for families, it's worth it for your kid's sake.So don't wait. Talk with your child. Help your child buy in to the evaluation process. Help them see what's in it for them. And don't be afraid to partner with the school, and ask lots of questions. Together, you, your child, and the school can plan a better, more comprehensive, and maybe even more efficient assessment that offers the most insights into what's going on, and leads to the right supports that can help your child thrive.You've been listening to Season 1 of "Understood Explains," from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered in this series, check out the show notes for each episode and visit understood.org.And now as one last reminder of who we're doing all this for, I'm going to turn it over to Nina to read our credits. Take it away, Nina! Nina: "Understood Explains" is produced by Julie Rawe and Cody Nelson, who also did the sound design for the show. Briana Berry is our production director. Andrew Lee is our editorial lead. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. A very special thanks to Amanda Morin and all the other parents and experts who helped us make the show. Thanks for listening, and see you next time.Andy: Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.
A history of learning disabilities and ADHD
Was ADHD always called “ADHD”? How have special education law and special education research advanced over the years? Explore the history of learning disabilities and ADHD with this timeline. And find out when some famous people went public and started speaking out.1800s to mid-1900sTrends: Learning disabilities and ADHD aren’t on the public radar. But they are discussed by scientists and doctors.1877 German neurologist Adolf Kussmaul coins the term “word blindness.” He defines it as “a complete text blindness ... although the power of sight, the intellect, and the powers of speech are intact.”1887 German physician Rudolf Berlin uses the term “dyslexia” to help define reading challenges.1902 The British medical journal Lancet publishes the poem “The Story of Fidgety Philip.” It may be the first reference to ADHD in a medical journal. Philip “... won’t sit still, He wriggles, And giggles, And then, I declare, Swings backwards and forwards, And tilts up his chair.”1905 W.E. Bruner publishes the first report of childhood reading difficulties in the U.S. The term dyslexia wasn’t commonly used in the U.S. until the 1930s.1955 The FDA approves the drug Ritalin for treatment of depression and fatigue, but not for ADHD. (ADHD won’t be recognized by the medical community for another 13 years.)1960s and 1970sTrends: Doctors and educators in the U.S. recognize learning disabilities and what will later be called ADHD. Public schools and the federal government start to act. But most kids with these challenges are taught in separate classrooms, away from their peers. Inclusion classrooms are not yet common.1961 Ritalin is first used to treat “hyperkinetic” symptoms in kids.1963 In Chicago, psychologist Samuel A. Kirk becomes the first to use the term “learning disability” at an education conference.1964 Association for Children with Learning Disabilities (ACLD) is created. Now known as the Learning Disabilities Association of America (LDA), it has chapters in every state.1968 What is now called ADHD first appears in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), the manual used to diagnose conditions. It’s called “hyperkinetic impulse disorder.”1969 Congress passes the first federal law that requires support services for kids with learning disabilities.1973 Congress passes Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. It bans discrimination against people with disabilities in programs that receive federal funding. This includes public schools.1975 Congress passes the Education for All Handicapped Children Act (EAHCA). Public schools are required to provide “free, appropriate public education” for all students.1977 Pete and Carrie Rozelle found the National Center for Learning Disabilities. (It was known then as the Foundation for Children with Learning Disabilities.) As parents of a child with learning disabilities, the Rozelles strive to help other families.1980s and 1990sTrends: The education and medical communities strive to understand learning disabilities and ADHD — and how to help people who have them. ADHD becomes more widely known. There’s controversy over whether kids are being overdiagnosed.1980 “Hyperkinetic impulse disorder” is renamed attention-deficit disorder (ADD). ADD was defined as a problem of inattention that could also come with hyperactivity.1985 Singer and actress Cher talks about having dyslexia and what she calls “math dyslexia.” A decade later, she writes in her autobiography about having dyscalculia.The first state dyslexia law is passed in Texas. Local school districts must screen students for dyslexia and put instructional interventions in place for kids who show signs of dyslexia. Over the next two decades, dozens of other states also pass dyslexia laws.1987 ADD is renamed attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in a revision to the DSM.1990 Congress passes the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). It bans discrimination against people with disabilities in public spaces and the workplace.EAHCA is changed and renamed as the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). In the new version, “disability” replaces “handicap.”1996 The National Institute of Mental Health team identifies regions of the brain that work differently in people who have dyslexia. LD Online launches as the first internet resource for parents and teachers. 1997 Big changes to IDEA: Some students with ADHD can now qualify for special education under the “Other Health Impairment” category. General education teachers become part of the special education process. Students get more access to regular education and take statewide tests.2000 to present dayTrends: Awareness and research of learning disabilities and ADHD issues take off. Federal law more clearly defines special education services and gives parents more rights. Researchers start using brain imaging to study these challenges.2001 The Elementary and Secondary Education Act is renamed No Child Left Behind Act. It holds states and schools more accountable for student progress.2002 Researchers at Yale University use fMRI technology to show that the brains of kids with dyslexia work differently than those of their peers when reading.2003 Actor Henry (“The Fonz”) Winkler introduces the book character Hank Zipzer, a mischievous hero with dyslexia. Winkler, who has dyslexia, wanted to give kids a hero with whom they could identify.2004 IDEA is updated. It gives parents more rights and better defines schools’ responsibilities. Response to intervention (RTI) is used to try to help struggling students.2005 Yale University team identifies a gene associated with dyslexia.2007 The Office for Civil Rights at the U.S. Department of Education releases a “Dear Colleague” letter. It says that denying kids with disabilities access to accelerated academic programs is a civil rights violation.Researchers at University College London use brain imaging to identify the area of the brain that works differently in people with dyscalculia.2010 A GfK Roper survey finds that 80 percent of Americans agree that “children with learning disabilities are just as smart as you and me.”Researchers at the M.I.N.D. Institute identify differences in electrical patterns in the brains of kids with ADHD. This shows a biological reason for trouble with attention.2013 DSM-5 broadens its definition of the term “specific learning disorder.”The U.S. Department of Labor passes federal regulations requiring contractors and subcontractors to set a goal that 7 percent of their workforce be people with disabilities.2014 Understood.org launches. The initiative provides families of kids who learn and think differently with hands-on, personalized, and actionable information to understand and meet their needs. It later expands to serve educators, employers, and young adults.2015 No Child Left Behind is repealed. In its place, Congress enacts the Every Student Succeeds Act. The new law gives each state the power to set its own goals for student achievement within a flexible federal framework.2017 The U.S. Supreme Court decides the landmark case Endrew F. The Court says schools must provide special education services “reasonably calculated” to help kids make progress in school.Check out inspiring stories about people with ADHD. Find out more about how many people have learning disabilities.
Understood Explains Season 1How to decide if your child needs a special education evaluation
How do schools and families decide if a child needs an evaluation? Get tips to help decide if now is the right time or if you should wait. schools decide child needs evaluation special education? role families play? episode Understood Explains focuses beginning process — deciding child needs get evaluated. Host Dr. Andy Kahn psychologist spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids public private schools. Andy’s first guest episode educator Julian Saavedra. They’ll cover key areas:Deciding right time evaluate, waitAddressing stigma, myths, common challenges get wayFinding ally help partner child’s schoolAndy’s second guest parenting expert Amanda Morin. They’ll give ideas say child deciding get evaluation — say.Related resourcesDeciding evaluationAre child’s struggles serious enough evaluation?What response intervention (RTI)?10 special education myths may hearEpisode transcriptMichele: name Michele, live Bronx, New York. I've road three different times, three different sons. youngest son, say, even though sat discussed first evaluated, eighth grade upset. took hard. felt being, know, viewed slow, smart, crazy. means conversation little different him, wanted understand didn't mean damaged something wrong him, see struggling. Andy: Understood Podcast Network, "Understood Explains." You're listening Season 1, explain evaluations special education. 10 episodes, cover ins outs process school districts use evaluate children special education services. name Andy Kahn, I'm licensed psychologist in-house expert Understood.org. I've spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids public private schools. I'll host.Today's episode focus beginning evaluation process — deciding child needs evaluated. We're going cover three key things: deciding now's right time evaluate wait, addressing stigma challenges get way, finding ally help partner child's school. We're also going give ideas say child deciding get evaluation say. First, let's hear Michele's story.Michele: never, time, go school asking. asked child evaluated, don't fight it, like, "Oh, child, doesn't need evaluated." say, "OK, great. that's think, he's school, don't know what's going he's every day. explain what's going on. Yes, let's it."Andy: It's big decision deciding child needs evaluated special education services. It's decision families schools need make together. it's common wonder child's struggles serious enough child might outgrow whatever issue is. schools families decide child needs evaluated really important. it's extremely important know, "Should evaluate now?" first guest today going help unpack this.Julian Saavedra assistant principal Philadelphia high school. He's also father two co-host Understood podcast "The Opportunity Gap," kids color ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences. glad here, Julian.Julian: Hey!Andy: let's dive in. common questions schools families ask whether evaluate child wait? biggest factors come play?Julian: think types questions schools ask, it's really progression student's abilities. Like, student regular education setting, student progressing, factors impeding progress? thing families — lot times families might wondering, know, what's going child? come they're well peers? lot times try figure specific things impacting student's learning? evaluation process hopefully designed uncover specific things happening student best served.Andy: really common, know, work life, family might conversation me, come say, "You know, really don't know — Johnny's, Johnny's struggling needs math. we're seeing he's getting upset home. we're really sure do. here's things we've tried." qualitative pieces helpful conversation, know, it's grade number piece paper grade-level standard. think much talk making decisions, talks academics well sort emotional response.Julian: Mm-hm.Andy: So, Julian, let's take couple minutes talk key terms families need know. always talk about, like, terminology important. families aware terminology language we're using, they're going better able collaborate participate that. maybe talk little bit terms like "prereferral," "referral," "response intervention," things along lines.Julian: Sure. One terms you'll likely hear lot parts process idea referral. sometimes term little bit scary sounds like something related doctor's office medical thing, it's not. really referring idea there's recommendation made.And earliest part process, team teachers school staff come together, they're trying discern — determine — figure what's happening child. cases, may determine recommendation, may want consider evaluating child deem child good candidate special education services. case, would referral evaluation. parents families parenting adults involved child's life say yes agree evaluation. cannot move forward without families people child's life agreeing process starting.Now, another term may hear "prereferral." prereferral conversation data collection involved official referral process occurs. That's there's block time team people school starts come together figure what's happening. may start looking what's going specific classrooms. may start conversations student. may even try different interventions hopefully assist student improve performance.And another word might hear idea "intervention," meaning team adults school intervening general education program try something different, try something may help student. there's different levels intervention. Andy: So, Julian, let's dig little bit. different levels look like?Julian: Tier 1 intervention something going intervene students. Everybody classroom going change. may teacher going change seats classroom, may teacher going post agenda board. Something going impact everybody.A Tier 2 intervention may something that's specific targeted group students. maybe child within targeted group. Tier 2 intervention is, again, another change regular programming attempt see whether help.Tier 3 prereferral starts really catch up. that's that's individualized approach. key families understanding processes intervention supposed happen certain amount time. time evaluate, course span intervention happening, whether change occurs. find they've tried things multiple times they're working, team might decide, right, well, maybe need go ahead referral official evaluation determine, student fall category requiring special education services?Andy: really good description prereferral intervention. case folks curious: show notes, resource there, article "What response intervention?" go back look pieces information detail. talk schools decide evaluate child special education, we're thinking school perspective, parents? Now, parents legal rights here. parents take active role deciding whether evaluate child?Julian: Parenting adults right legally say, "Yes, would like move forward evaluation process," "No." side it, parent, also right ask request
Prior written notice: Your right to hear about changes to your child’s IEP
Schools make changes to student services all the time. As the parent, you need to be informed. You need to know what the changes are and why the school is making them. You also get to participate in the decision-making. The law is on your side.Under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), parents have legal rights called procedural safeguards. One of these safeguards is called prior written notice. This provision says the school must give parents written notice any time it adds, changes, or denies educational services to their child or wants to change the child’s placement.Here’s what else you need to know about prior written notice.What the written notice should containPrior written notice must include a full description of what the school plans to do or refuses to do. It must also give parents the following:An explanation of why the school wants to make this change or is refusing to make the change you requestedA description of other options that were considered and why those options were rejectedA description of each test or record the school used in making the decisionA reminder that parents have legal rights to procedural safeguardsInformation about how parents can get a written copy of their legal rightsContact information for help in understanding their rightsWhen the school sends written noticeAny time the school proposes to start or change nearly anything related to your child’s education, it must send prior written notice. For example, if the school wants to change your child’s IEP, it needs to send you prior written notice.The school also must give written notice if it rejects any parent requests.Here are a few more examples of when you should get notice:When the school wants to conduct an initial evaluation of your childWhen the school says no to your request for an evaluation, services, or placement in another educational settingWhen the school wants to change how it identifies your child’s disabilityWhen the school wants to change a child’s educational placement, such as switching from a general education classroom to a special education classroomWhen the school wants to reduce, add or in any way change your child’s educational servicesIf the school informed you of the change in a phone call or a meeting, it still has to send you written notice.What if the school doesn’t give prior written notice?You can ask for written notice if the school doesn’t send it you. If the school fails to send you prior written notice, it’s violating the law.Prior written notice gives you an opportunity to respond before any changes are made. If you don’t agree with the action the school plans to take or the school refuses to send you prior written notice, you can put your objections in writing.If you ask for mediation or a due process hearing in your letter, you’ll trigger the “stay put” provision. That means no changes can be made until you and the school resolve your differences. You may be able to work out your disagreement in a meeting.Sometimes there are misunderstandings about changes in your child’s education. Prior written notice guarantees that you’re kept up to date on the important decisions being made. Understanding this right is important to being a strong advocate for your child.
Understood Explains Season 1Your rights during the special education evaluation process
What rights do families have in a school evaluation? Learn how special education law protects your rights during the evaluation process. rights families school evaluation? episode Understood Explains highlights five key ways special education law protects rights evaluation process. Host Dr. Andy Kahn psychologist spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids public private schools. Andy’s first guest episode lawyer Andrew M.I. Lee. They’ll cover key areas:What rights evaluation processWhy helps polite assertive partnering child’s schoolWhat think school isn’t following rulesAndy’s second guest parenting expert Amanda Morin. She’ll give tips avoid saying child disputes school.Related resourcesEvaluation rights: need knowYou disagree school’s evaluation results. what?Independent educational evaluations: need know10 smart responses school cuts denies servicesDownloadable letter templates talking pointsSample letters requesting evaluations reportsSample letters dispute resolutionSample scripts dispute resolutionEpisode transcriptLisa: Hi! name Lisa, son first public school evaluation sixth grade. looking back, wish, one, known rights push school demand tested, despite fact shouldn't demanding shouldn't aggressive school get need. wish known right that.Andy: Understood Podcast Network, "Understood Explains." You're listening Season 1, explain evaluations special education. 10 episodes, cover ins outs process school districts use evaluate children special education services. name Andy Kahn, I'm licensed psychologist in-house expert Understood.org. I've spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids public private schools. I'll host.Today's episode focuses legal rights. We're going cover three key things: rights evaluation process, advocate think school isn't following rules, say say child disputes school. first, let's hear another parent.Jennifer: I'm Jennifer, Atlanta. son Nathan 11, dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD. requested evaluation, knew time could request evaluation report five days prior. that, thankfully. knew ask that. know time could ask draft eligibility report beforehand, game-changer.Andy: evaluation process feel complicated overwhelming students families. lot rights protect families along way. starters, school can't evaluate child unless give permission. disagree evaluation results, right ask independent evaluator another evaluation public expense, means cost you. help explain evaluation rights, want bring first guest today. Andrew Lee editor Understood. He's also lawyer expertise disability law, including federal state special education laws. Andrew also key player Understood's Podcast Network, including helping launch first season "Understood Explains." Andrew, welcome show.Andrew: Thanks me. Super excited here.Andy: Andrew, let's start talking hugely important federal law families need know about. Give us quick overview IDEA.Andrew: Yeah, IDEA Individuals Disabilities Education Act. That's quite mouthful. IDEA nation's special education law. law grants students disabilities one important rights, that's right free appropriate public education. includes basically supports services student might need make progress school. Along special education, determine who's entitled rights. covers evaluations, you're going ask here. that's IDEA important law child disability, including learning thinking difference school.Andy: talking evaluation rights, know, one things that's awesome that, Andrew, wrote really great article Understood called "Evaluation Rights: Need Know." folks, access show notes. Now, article includes 11 evaluation rights — specific rights. know, we're going cover today, hoping maybe could pick top five, maybe talk top five important rights want share audience today.Andrew: Yeah, pick five evaluation rights think impactful, I'd start right number one: right ask evaluation. think parents lot times think wait school start process off. that's correct. right ask evaluation time.Right number two top five evaluation rights would right comprehensive multidisciplinary evaluation. That's lot words, basically means evaluation can't use one test measure determine child qualifies special education. involve variety tests data. goal really get full picture what's going on.Right number three right involved. Again, think schools sort always come us parents anything happens. within context special education evaluations, right parent attend meetings, see evaluation reports. right things explained you, part process. that's important.Right number four, would say, right prompt evaluation. means evaluation doesn't go forever. federal law, IDEA, mentioned, timeline 60 calendar days. Now, states specific rules sometimes change number days account vacations, etc., important thing date. know end, can't go limitless amount time.And right number five, would say, that's among top five evaluation rights, right disagree challenge evaluation process itself. Even you're involved evaluation meetings, right say, "Hey, know what? don't think best way things." Or, "I think testing reading also focus. think looking this." That's really important right know about. formal processes involved that, like independent educational evaluation, ask someone outside school evaluation school's expense. due process, involved — it's kind like mini trial school really get kind loggerheads happen. top five evaluation rights. many more, think ones want remember.Andy: Perfect. let circle back second. used term talked comprehensive multidisciplinary evaluation. think talked "comprehensive" terms of, know, variety different kinds tests, use words "tests" "measures," talking specific activities child would evaluated. When talk "multidisciplinary," think it's important parents know might mean someone's academic evaluation, look specific skills. psychological, we're looking mental health behavioral questions. speech language, occupational therapy. considered discipline, speak. idea get best image child across useful areas school. So, Andrew, think steps learning rights, families think school district isn't following rules? suggestions point even start conversation?Andrew: rules schools sometimes don't follow, though think schools always try best, teams best. I've seen number ways parents react, two ways want highlight aren't helpful really important know. first one parents kind go flow don't like conflict. I'll see sometimes parent part evaluation process. They'll — may think themselves, know, "This doesn't seem right, but, uh, I'm gonna, seem like know they're doing. know, this, I'm really comfortable this, don't want raise it, don't want make waves." And think issue type reaction that's best way advocate child. doesn't help team either. doesn't help evaluation process you're — need to, think there's something wrong, think know something important child what's happening, expert shouldn't go flow. raise voice say, "Hey, know, don't think right." And, that's really important
When your child with an IEP turns 18: Your parental rights
You may always think of your son or daughter as a child. But in the eyes of the law, people are considered adults when they turn age 18 to 21 (it varies by state). When your child becomes an adult, the rights and responsibilities you had as a parent belong to your child.What if your child isn’t ready for the responsibilities of managing their own education? Will you have any say? The transition into adulthood has a lot of implications. Here are some of the key points.The age of adulthood varies by stateThe age of majority — the age when an individual is considered an adult — is determined by state law. In most states, the age of majority is 18. But in a few states, it’s sometime between ages 18 and 21.How rights transfer to your child with an IEPAt least a year before students with an Individual Educational Program (IEP) reach the age of majority, the school is supposed to notify students about which rights will transfer to them. How they tell them is left up to the states.In most states, when a student turns 18, the student assumes all of the educational rights the parents had. This includes taking the main role in developing their IEP. The school now:Invites the student to participate in IEP meetingsNeeds the student’s permission to invite their parentsRequires the student’s consent for an evaluation or reevaluationNeeds the student’s approval for any change in placement or servicesThe student also has the right to dispute school decisions through the process of mediation and due process.The student takes over the right to give — or deny — informed consent to any action the school wants to take. This means that if the school wants to change the student’s services in any way, it needs the student’s permission, not the parent’s.But not all states work this way. In some states, only some of the educational rights transfer at the age of majority. To find out the rules in your state, contact your state’s department of education. Your local Parent Training and Information Center will also have this information.Keep in mind that a student’s right to special education has an age limit. Eligibility for an IEP ends when a student reaches the age of 22, or when a student graduates from high school with a regular diploma (whichever comes first). (Earning a Certificate of Attendance doesn’t end your child’s eligibility, but it may have other drawbacks.)Exceptions to the age of majoritySome states have a legal process called “guardianship” to figure out if the student can handle these new responsibilities and rights. If the state finds that the student doesn’t have the capacity to make decisions, it may appoint someone to represent the student. This can be the parent or another person. To navigate this process, you may need to consult with an attorney. Preparing your child for independenceThere are things you can do to help ease your child into their adult role.Help your child develop a good relationship with the IEP team. Beginning in high school, students typically are invited to IEP meetings. They’re expected to play a major part, especially when it comes to transition planning (figuring out what to do after high school). Encourage your child to participate actively in those discussions with the team.Let your child do the talking. Rather than speaking for your child, let your teen assume center stage at IEP and other meetings. If your child gains experience advocating for themself, it will be easier for them to keep doing so as an adult.Stay involved. When your child reaches the age of majority, your participation isn’t required. But the school or your child can invite you to attend IEP meetings. After all, you’re deeply knowledgeable about your child’s needs and talents, so your input is valuable.Learn about independent living skills kids need before moving away from home. And take a look at different paths to success after high school.
The Opportunity GapIEP meeting tips for parents of kids of color
Learn how to be an equal partner at your child’s IEP meetings. Get tips from education specialist Taína Coleman of the Child Mind Institute. Meeting school plan child’s Individualized Education Program (IEP) intimidating. true parent guardian. may feel extra layer unease you’re Black brown person room. Listen episode Opportunity Gap get IEP meeting tips parents kids color. Learn Taína Coleman, mom two education specialist Child Mind Institute. See uses experience special education explain: documents right see meetingHow ask IEP’s annual goals aiming high enoughWhat don’t feel ready sign IEPRelated resourcesHow tell child’s IEP goals SMART (Explainer lots examples)IEP goal tracker (Printable worksheet)10 tips better IEP meeting (Video)How organize child’s IEP binder (Includes video printable checklist) Episode transcriptJulian: Understood Podcast Network, "The Opportunity Gap." Kids color ADHD common learning differences, often face double stigma. there's lot families address opportunity gap communities. podcast explains key issues offers tips help advocate child. name Julian Saavedra. I'm father two assistant principal Philadelphia, I've spent nearly 20 years working public schools. I'll host. Julian: Hey, listeners. Welcome back. Today, we're talking prepare IEP meeting. know stressful annual IEPs be, meetings important opportunities advocate child. really extra special guest today. name Taína Coleman. Taína education specialist Child Mind Institute, works bridge gap science learning teaching practice. Taína 15 years experience working special education, literacy education, education administration New York City. She's also mom two small ones. Hey Taína. Thank much here. Taína: Oh, thank me. Julian: So, Taína, always try ask guests quick question get things going. So, what's giving life right now? Taína: What's given life right now? right. grew Harlem, New York City. Winter favorite season ever. I'm starting appreciate little kids. know, officially sled. Every day try finesse hot chocolate it's like 40 degrees, know, it's wonderful time year. I'm learning appreciate more. Julian: already like kids haven't even met yet, already like them. right, let's get business. Taína: right. Julian: 15 years working special education, you're also parent child receives related services. tell us exactly IEP us might know? Taína: Absolutely. IEP stands Individualized Education Program. people refer individualized education plan. folks really need know it's really part pre-K 12 public education system. It's legal document. tends map special education instruction kids need support make progress could thrive school. document, there'll list annual goals kinds services school provide child. use different school settings many ways, me, it's way ground conversation around child might learning needs needs, period. gives us opportunity touch base. Julian: Taína, dive specific tips get ready IEP meetings, anything general want say meetings might particularly challenging parents kids color? Well, know, "The Opportunity Gap," show really try talk intersection special education services race class cultural background. you're here, thinking background, thinking experience teacher, educator, parent, things might particularly challenging? Taína: So, parent color, raising children color, educator well, recognize there, opportunity gap exists. There's cultural implications right there, historical reasons that. One thing wanted point there's also language gap, ways families different cultural backgrounds understand language education. could really difficult folks get handle "What's happening? happening? saying child?" want give historical background think it's really important parents understand it, right? 1975, Congress enacted act, called Education Handicapped Children Act. Awful name. point is, act really tried focus protecting individual needs children disabilities, right? till now, weren't legal protections would mandate school educate child various difficulties disabilities, rather. So, 1990, reauthorized, renamed IDEA Individuals Disabilities Education Act. so, opportunity children disabilities learn public setting. that's really important folks know document something folks fought for. It's legal mandate disability activists long discussed powerful tool really provide equity education system. thing is, grew Harlem. word disability really charged, right? so, families real hard time wrapping mind around that. would sometimes prefer saying, learning differences. "My child learning difference." want us point time really consider that, yes, language could sometimes make one uncomfortable you're thinking child. say disability, we're talking legal protection we're talking diagnosis that's often done great care evaluator. you're saying learning difference, feels politically correct. It's broader term, doesn't give specifics child may may may offer legal protections. want parents understand use language could better advocate child. going balanced, thoughtful, caring conversation child's full humanity classroom. so, power language really important us embrace point time. want us able hold complicated language, put time place relates disability rights ableism, importantly, understand we're really talking children may benefit support. parent, I'm going make sure get it. Julian: think things brought up, know, people forget sometimes changes relatively recent. us speaking now, parents grandparents profound experiences special education even word disability, meant completely different program see today. And, know, we've talked extensively podcast, even changes seen teaching career began it's drastically altered experience. So, know, keeping fight is, it's fight, right? It's fight provide appropriate students power language, power owning language provide family incredibly important. So, appreciate bringing up. So, know, now, knowing that, again, we're hearing expert telling parents need know language need really embrace help student access deserve. It's sometimes really challenging, right? Like sitting hearing IEP meeting, it's challenging situation, right? Like it's heavy hear walk situation. So, know, let's say parent, parenting adult child qualified IEP. specific things get ready IEP meeting? Taína: truly believe IEP meeting part larger conversation. first time hearing child's needs IEP meeting. Julian: No, not. Taína: needs communication think parents color, systems communication aren't often built around communities color needs communities color, right? so, need sometimes find ways ensure classroom teachers communicating us. work parent coordinator? etc. So, first thing want know lines communication used, understand child's experience classroom? So, there's one that's going shocked IEP meeting, right? Shouldn't be. side evaluations here, takes several assessments, several days, different interviews us conceptualize believe might happening child. reason I'm illuminating process want parents understand voice matters conceptualization. we're saying maybe child reading difficulty, believe case we're looking services around that. Maybe there's going testing around that. I've
Parent training centers: A free resource in your state
As a parent or caregiver, you wear many hats. You’re a researcher finding out more about your child’s learning and thinking differences. You’re a teacher helping your child learn new things. You’re an advocate working to get support at school to help your child thrive.You may have a lot of questions about how to navigate the education system or where to go to find legal, medical, or other help for your child. Parent Training and Information Centers (PTIs) and Community Parent Resource Centers (CPRCs) can lend a hand.About Parent Training and Information CentersThe Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) provides money for each state to have at least one PTI. The centers help the families of kids from birth to age 26 who have a disability. The main goal of PTIs is to give parents or guardians support and free information on how to make the most of their child’s education.The centers provide families with information about:Specific disabilities and issuesParental and child rights under IDEA, the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation ActSupport groups, educational specialists, legal assistance, and other local, state, and national resourcesAbout community parent resource centersSome states have community centers in addition to PTIs. The community centers work mainly with low-income families or families that speak English as a second language. These centers make sure parents understand their rights in the special education process. The centers also help families communicate with schools and participate in their child’s education.How parent centers can help youParent centers offer workshops and training sessions about IDEA, special education, and disabilities. They can also suggest ways at home to help kids who learn and think differently.You can call or email a parent center. Or you can visit a center in person. The people there can answer questions, give advice, or find the help you need.The centers often have lists of tutors, educational specialists, and special programs or schools. Many centers also have large libraries of helpful books, videos, and pamphlets. Some of this information is available at no cost. Some centers also send out newsletters.Finding a center near you Locating your state’s PTI can be a little tricky because the centers go by different names. In some states the names are straightforward, like PTI Nebraska. But New Mexico’s PTI is called Parents Reaching Out. A national website called the Center for Parent Information and Resources (CPIR) has a state-by-state listing of PTIs.Taking advantage of a parent center can help you build a support network. Chances are good the people at these centers are parents who also have children with disabilities. They may understand your journey.
The Opportunity GapHow “The Talk” changes with disability and learning differences
How does talking with kids about race and injustice change when learning differences and disability are part of the picture? Black parents and families of color know about “The Talk”: the conversation they must have with their kids about the dangers posed by racism and injustice in society. But how does this conversation change when learning differences and disability are part of the picture? This week, The Opportunity Gap tackles how to talk with your child about learning and thinking differences and why this is a critical conversation to have for kids of all ages. Hosts Julian Saavedra and Marissa Wallace discuss how to avoid shame around differences and disability, and what words you can use. Listen for tips and advice on how to prepare for the conversation.Related resourcesHow to talk to your child about learning and thinking differencesVideo: LeDerick Horne on being Black and learning differentlyADHD parenting tips from a Black clinical psychologistEpisode transcriptJulian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us.Welcome back to the podcast. What's going on, Marissa?Marissa: Hey, Julian.Julian: We've been on a great run of having some amazing guests, but I think today will be nice to just have a conversation with the two of us about something that is pretty important and, you know, the work that we've focused on is so many different topics, like so many different themes, so many different ideas and perspectives. But we haven't really dug deep into how to actually talk to the kids. How do we talk to the kids about learning and thinking differences?Marissa: Good point.Julian: Because it's fascinating, because it's such an impactful thing to start this conversation really early. You know, not necessarily just for the kids themselves, but also for everybody that they interact with, whether it's their classmates, whether it's their brothers or sisters, whether it's the friends that they're around, making sure that we're starting this conversation as early as possible so that our students and our children are really feeling like they're supported. Because the more that we talk about learning and thinking differences, the stigma starts to go away.Marissa: An important conversation for everyone, right? When we think of inclusivity and that goal that we have, how impactful can it be it to, like you said, start the conversations young, whether you have a child who has learning and thinking differences or not, it's beneficial for all families to have these conversations, because the more that we are investing in our young ones, our future, the more they can carry that with them to destigmatize the idea and to instead embrace it.Julian: To me, it's important for us to just start having more dialogue around the conversation. What do you have to mentally do to prepare yourself to even have a talk about something as profound as learning and thinking differences and, you know, how do you start having that conversation with everybody else?Marissa: Yeah. For me, I always pull back or get concerned when I walk into a conversation with a student's family. And that family has like, you know, pretty clearly expressed that they have not had conversations with their children, right? And I deal mostly with middle school kids and high school kids. It's like a red flag, right? Because then I'm like, oh, my goodness, there's so many missed opportunities that this child hasn't been able to experience who they are, why they are the way they are, and how it's OK.Julian: So let's say I have a daughter, and my child is starting to show that there might be signs of learning and thinking differences. I've started to have conversations with parents that I interact with. I've started to talk to different teachers. I've started to formally investigate whether or not evaluations need to start happening. And I'm going down this road, you know, my child might start having testings happening. What do I do to sit down and prepare myself to talk about this with my child?Marissa: Yeah, that's a loaded question. How do you prepare yourself for the conversation? And I think that oftentimes the easy way is to not, right? So I think that happens often. I was like, "Oh, I'm just, I'm not going to address this, or rely on the school to do it." And I think that that is a misstep in a lot of families when that happens.And I know you mentioned because I think the first part in preparation is preparing yourself. Gather your information, talk to people that you trust to just, you know, ask the questions at the school level too, like, what is this evaluation going to include? What types of testing will happen? What's the outcome? You know, what are my rights as a parent, as a guardian? Once you get those questions answered, that's like, step one of the preparation. And then step two of the preparation is then taking all of that and knowing that you're not, especially a 6-year-old — you're not going to say everything that you know to your 6-year-old. So then it's the next piece is like going through, and what is the key parts that are important for you to discuss with your child so that they're not scared too? 'Cause that's the other piece of it. You know, kids are smarter than we give them credit for a lot of times.Julian: That's the truth. That is the truth.Marissa: If you don't acknowledge those things or give, shed some light and describe what they are, then it's only going to create a fear, and it's only going to create an uncertainty in them, and that's not OK. Julian: And it makes me think about, that's a lot of mental preparation for the parent to accept the fact that there might be a long road ahead. That's something that is not going to happen overnight. You know, you obviously — it's really important to learn about what formal steps are going to happen at the school and to understand what kinds of support might be put in place, but overall, that's your child. And this is the baby that you've brought up now potentially struggling in school.And so I also think about the preparation that goes into being empathetic to the child and empathetic for yourself, right? Like really not taking a blame or guilt mentality into this. Like, you know, you didn't do anything wrong as a parent. And that's one thing to say, you know, to hear some people on a podcast talk about it, but it really is the truth. Like that's something that parents have to accept, that this is not something that I've done wrong. This is not something that I've caused. This is not something that is going to mean my child is not going to thrive in school. This is more about me figuring out how to best support my child. And, you know, so opening up the conversation with that mentality I think is also incredibly important.Marissa: Yeah. That's a really valid point and a really important one because I think it also, in that preparation piece, then encourages our families to take a moment to process that as, like you said, as the person who's like getting that and understanding that this is going to have an impact on your child. It's going to change what you thought their educational experience was going to be like. So sit with it, allow yourself to feel, allow yourself to process, so that you can come to terms with it before all that emotion comes out when you have that conversation, I think is, is a really important part too.Julian: Yeah. I remember, um, there's been a number of children in my own kids' classes that have learning and thinking differences. One of the children had some pretty intensive needs and he had a one-on-one or a one-to-one aide. And I remember talking to the dad about, what is that like, how do you manage that? How did you approach the conversation with your son? And he said that he just asked his son lots of questions, like, how do you feel about school or how are things going? What's going well, what are you struggling with? And, you know, he said the son, when he got a chance to just open up about what was going on, Dad really listened. It seems like a lot of stuff came out: "You know, Dad, it's hard sometimes for me to stay focused or it's hard to sit in my seat, um, and so having some help would really be good for me."And it just made me think about, as parents, sometimes we do a lot of talking and we might not do a lot of listening. And it's really important, no matter what age the child is, to make sure that we ask the right questions so that some of that information starts coming out. And so I'm thinking also like just preparing yourself to have lots of questions, open, and allow that space to be safe for your child is really, really important too.Marissa: It's such an oversight sometimes, like you said it perfectly, like I had to laugh when you're like, "Sometimes as parents, we do all the talking." We do, you know? And I'm like, ah man, like it made me like self-reflect in the moment, even with my son, like, oh, like, how often am I talking at him? And I think that's thing to add into this is like, this is a wonderful way to have that conversation. How do you start the conversation by asking your kids questions? What do they know already? What have they noticed? How are they experiencing, like trying to figure out what is their day-to-day in the classroom like? What emotions, what thoughts do they have? What actions do they, you know, can they describe throughout their school day that helps them to learn or makes it challenging for them to learn? I love that. I love that idea of asking questions.Julian: But at the same time, let's keep it real. How many times have we asked our kids, "How was school? What'd you do at school today?" "I don't know." And that doesn't matter what age the child is, you know, there's a lot of things that are left out. So understand that's also going to happen.Marissa: You're there for eight hours, right? You did nothing? What did you learn? Nothing.Julian: I paid all these taxes? And this tuition?Marissa: "You're telling me nothing?" So that's right. So I think, you know, again, it was like, as a pair, we prepare, we process, and then we go in with some guiding questions and some things we want to talk about because, yeah, we need, we need those as prompts to expand the conversation.Julian: Again, I go back to the example of my son and just thinking about my own classroom over the years, how there have been so many different students who have had special education services, right? And in some cases, kids know, and the other kids know, and in some cases, the kids don't know. But thinking about both ends, it's just something that we have to make sure that we're being crystal clear about how we're creating a space for either your children and/or in, a classroom setting, everybody feeling like they can be themselves.And that it's not just a thing we say. It's really modeling how do we interact with each other? It's modeling for children what we hope they will do as they grow older into adults and how they're going to treat others with difference. We have an opportunity when kids are really young to shape how they interact with others that do learn differently.Right. And you know, the stigma that we always talk about, we have the power to take that away and make sure that they don't even think twice about. "Oh, you, you have somebody that is with you every day in class — that's cool," or, "Oh, you need to have a little bit of a different seating arrangement in class? Wow. Tell me more about that. That's interesting." Making sure that our kids are understanding that there's nothing wrong with it. Everybody has different ways that they do it and, you know, making sure that the children understand that it's just difference. And there's a strength and a beauty in diversity, and in diversity of thoughts and a diversity of doing things is, is something that, you know, as parents, we have such a role to play in developing that with the kids.So it changes as kids get older, you know, the stakes get a lot higher, right? Where with younger kids, Mom and Dad have a lot more influence than when they're older and when the social interactions start happening independently. That's really where it could get kind of sticky. Right? Think about how many times kids would be made to feel a certain type of way because they were different.And when you're going through puberty, the last thing that a kid wants to be is different from anybody else. What is it like when they're not under the direct influence of their parents all the time? And they start interacting with each other and, you know, the interactions of high school kids and middle school kids, the stakes get a lot higher, and they don't necessarily want to be completely different from everybody else, right? So how, how do we help kids of that age navigate dealing with being around people who do think differently and you know, what do they do? How do you deal with the kids who do have learning differences at that age? And how do you deal with the kids who do not, but still supporting them socially.Marissa: And I do often wonder about what role do parents play, and at that point of middle school or high school, how do we engage families, too, in those conversations, because it has to come, like you said, like it has to start at a certain age and it has to continue. It can't just stop. Like, "Oh, I did my part when they were in kindergarten and first grade, they're good."You know, like it's not that simple and it evolves and it looks different and it changes. And I think that, yes, our goal is that we try to plant that seed as young as possible. So they become these young adults or these teenagers that go into it with open minds and with a very inclusive mindset, but that's not always the case.And so I'm hopeful and optimistic that we have a lot of listeners, a lot of families that have older children, high school kids, even, you know, it doesn't matter. The conversation shouldn't stop, yes, is what I'm getting at. So how do we encourage, and what does that look like? And then I think it's important, too, to like bring in addition to the learning and thinking differences, but how is this intersectionality between learning and thinking differences, race, class, gender, how does all of that impact? 'Cause that's going to change some of that dialogue as well. So like, does that look like in the homes, how can we support and encourage our families and our, and everyone, to embrace those conversations also, because we know there's so much intersectionality there?Julian: It's a lot, and I don't necessarily have an easy answer to that. You know, I think it is coming back to making sure that you're just having real talk with your kids, right? Like at the end of the day, it's making sure that conversations are happening in the home some way, some form, and it's being real with them, as in you're using language that resonates with you. You're asking questions and modeling how to ask some of these deep questions that don't necessarily have easy answers, and opening up a place for the dialogue to happen.And for younger kids, that's going to be different than for preteens or teenagers, but hopefully, you know, you're working to establish a relationship with your children where you can talk about things that are deeper than surface-level stuff, right? Like in the idea of race and class and gender and how those identities really impact the child. It's a whole other layer. I think about my own children and how both of our children are biracial, and — multiracial — being really crystal clear about what that means for them. And, you know, my daughter is already asking questions about like, "How come these dolls don't have the same skin color I do?" "Why are all these authors boys? Where's the girls at?" "How come we don't have girl presidents?" And she's 6 and she's asking these questions, and I love the fact that she's open enough to start asking us. But then she's questioning these bigger societal things, and if a baby like that can see it, then you know it's real, right?You know, thinking about that, add the layer of learning and thinking differences, and it really becomes like a double-edged struggle and a challenge. Like how do you marry the two, like how do you have these conversations about both and not necessarily make your child feel like it's hopeless, but also being crystal clear about, especially for our kids of color, there's going to be some challenges ahead?It's going to be difficult. And you having these learning and thinking differences are really going to make things a little bit more difficult.Marissa: We're not going to answer all these questions or have like pretty little bows tied on to any of the conversation today, because it is, as you mentioned, those so many societal parts that are intertwined.And I think it's fair to be honest and transparent with our children as much as we can, right? Like, I think that's a piece of it that I think is always like a fine line that, as parents and caretakers, we don't know sometimes what's oversharing or what's not enough. I do think though, when it comes to learning and thinking differences and race and class and gender and all the different pieces, it's important to develop a sense of identity with your children so that they can embrace who they are and be proud of who they are. I think that's where we start overall. Right? Like, no matter what.Julian: Proud, be proud of who you are. Be proud of everything you're coming to the table with.Marissa: "Oh, it's hard for you to sit down for eight hours a day. That's OK. That's part of who you are. You have a lot of energy, right?" You know, there's things that are become so quickly seen as negative, right? That we just have to think about ways to have a different spin on it. And then to also figure out let's look at those strengths and elevate. But then the things that you are struggling with or are finding some challenges with, there are ways to work through that, no matter what. So I think it's a balancing act for sure.Julian: Yeah. I was thinking about switching to my current role. And, you know, I work with a lot of students that are Black and brown kids from neighborhoods that are underserved, right? Like, they don't have all of the services that they need, and poverty and institutional racism really play a big role in their day-to-day experience.They know that. They understand it, and they live it every day. But some of the deeper conversations that are starting to happen with them, especially with my students that have ADHD or some of our students who have or require emotional support. Some of my students who have undergone traumatic events, and are coupled with, or the way they learn or think is different.Like it's adding those layers on to them and helping them understand that despite the fact that you might get a whole bunch of support in school, when you step out of school, none of that is going to be made apparent, you know, and especially for my young men. Yes, you might have a lot of people that know who you are and know that you need X, Y, and Z in school, and you get that.But when you walk out of this building, things are going to be different. The world might not understand or know for everybody that interacts with you, that you do have learning and thinking differences. So how are you going to prepare yourself to be out in the world where I hate to say it, but you're just another young Black man that for many people becomes a threat.And it doesn't matter that you have all these other things going on, and it doesn't matter that, you know, the law states that you're supposed to have this sort of support and you're getting it in this comfortable space inside of the building of a school and inside of your home. But society might not see you that way.And that to me is where, especially for our children that are coming from marginalized communities, that are coming from oppressed groups, those conversations need to be happening at home too. And they are in many ways, but adding the nuance of your learning and thinking differences are part of who you are, but everybody's not going to recognize that. And everybody's not going to know that, and they're not going to treat you any differently. And you have to be ready.Marissa: And that's like a downfall, I think, about us as humans in general is that we are obviously very quick to judge on visual perception where we can see. So the color of someone's skin, it's like a snap judgment, and then we have all these thoughts of what that person's expected to be able to do or not do.And so I think there's, again, a lot of advocacy that we have to encourage within our children, in all of those areas, to be authentically themselves and to love who they are and to also know how they operate. And how they are seen in society, but also how they can participate in society and then encouraging and exploring and learning. Everyone should be doing that, no matter how old you are, right? These conversations should continue. And I'm even thinking, you know, I've been fortunate and blessed to work in higher education for the last few years, and just knowing what schools are capable of providing. So encouraging our young people, that — don't be afraid to live out whatever your best life looks like.Julian: You know, as parents, thinking about the transition from being an advocate to being a support is a hard thing. And I'm not looking forward to it when it's my time. You know, my babies are still young, so I have some time, but at some point, you know, we start to fade into the background a little bit. And I think that for all of our parents out there, thinking about how can you help your child embrace who they are and embrace their strengths is really one of the most blessed gifts you can give a child going out into the world. Like really, truly helping them have self-worth, and building up their esteem for themselves, and having that clear understanding of their identity as they enter into the world on their own, is something that is crucial.Marissa: Yeah. That encouragement is everything, right? And that doesn't stop. Like that doesn't, it doesn't matter as an adult. Like, you know, none of us want to show up for our jobs and our days of work, our long, grueling days of work, and not hear that we've done something well. There's pieces of just natural human nature that encourage us to keep doing those things and to see ourselves in a certain way.And I think that for our children, let them explore, too. Like be open to what their — 'cause I think that's a piece of it, too, is, you know, we have to kind of challenge and push ourselves to be embracing of their interests, and they might hate it. They might even — Lincoln's really into art. He's now in like his eighth week of art class, and he's kind of over it. But he did it and I said, I'm like, "Hey, like you got two more weeks and then guess what, if you don't ever want to take an art class again, that's fine. But you tried it out. You explored it. You got to see if it was something that you want to do." So I think it's important, too, to just allow kids to, and just try things out. 'Cause I think that's where we see them find their strengths. And then also not narrow it down to strengths only being academic-based or only being artistic-based. Like there are so many, there's the strength of being able to be a good conversationalist, right?Julian: And there is executive functioning involved with that. So there's a lot of skills and nuanced skills that go into that. Like you said, finding the strengths of the child by asking lots of questions. And that we help them understand that even though they might be getting tons of support and they might be receiving a lot of people that are in their corner in school and at home, that the world might not be doing that outside of those walls and that they have to be ready and prepared to experience that. And at the end of the day, you're the ones that are going to offer the most support for them. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. If you have any questions about how you can have more of these conversations with your children or with people who are out there, please check out Understood.org.There's so many resources there for you as a parent of children of color. And as a teacher and educator, I've used so much of it. I know I work with them, but I also have used so much of the information on the site to help guide my own conversations with my own kids and conversations with my own classrooms. So please take a moment and check it out.And if you would like to share more of your story and how you've had conversations with children in your own lives, please reach out.Julian: This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you heard today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice.Go to u.org/opportunity gap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U as in Understood, dot O R G, slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places.We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee, Cinthia Pimentel, and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
FERPA: Protecting your child’s records
The school keeps a lot of records about your child — report cards, disciplinary actions, test results, and other information. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) is a federal law that protects your rights to:See your child’s educational recordsRequest corrections to the recordsDecide who else can see the recordsYou also can authorize someone else, such as a lawyer, to review records for you.But the law doesn’t stop there. Under FERPA, you have additional rights:You have the right to see your child’s records within 45 days of when the school receives your request to see them.You have the right to get a photocopy of your child’s educational records if it’s not possible for you to review them at the school. (The school may charge for copies.)You have the right to ask the school to correct any record you think is inaccurate or misleading. If the school doesn’t correct the record, you have the right to a formal hearing.If the record still hasn’t been corrected after the hearing, you have the right to put a statement in the record. The statement gives your take on the information that was disputed.The limitations of FERPASometimes the school is allowed to release your child’s records without your consent. Under FERPA, schools can release records without your permission to certain types of parties, including:School officials with a legitimate educational interest (for example, an academic advisor who needs to review what courses a student has completed in order to give advice)A school your child is transferring toAppropriate officials in health and safety emergenciesJuvenile justice system authoritiesAlso, FERPA only applies to schools that receive certain kinds of federal funding. If your child attends a private school that doesn’t receive that funding, your child wouldn’t have FERPA protections.What happens when your child turns 18?When your child starts college or turns 18, all of the rights you had under FERPA now belong to your child.Because of FERPA, colleges sometimes can’t release educational records to parents unless the student gives written consent first.FERPA doesn’t close out parents completely. If you claim your child as a dependent on your tax return, the school may share your child’s educational records with you — without your child’s written consent.FERPA grants important legal rights to parents and children. Understanding more about which laws do what can help you continue to advocate for your child.
The Opportunity GapBringing awareness to dyslexia
Dyslexia is a common learning difference that impacts many kids of color. Hear from an expert and learn ways to support kids in the classroom. The signs of dyslexia are often overlooked. And there’s so much parents of kids of color can do to advocate for the right support for this learning difference. Our guest is Dyslexia Mom Boss host Lauren McClenney-Rosenstein, EdD. Listen as Dr. Lauren explains:Her own personal experience with learning and thinking differencesWhat parents need to know about Orton–GillinghamWays parents and schools can work together to help kids of color thriveRelated resourcesDr. Lauren’s podcast, Dyslexia Mom BossDyslexia basicsWhat is Orton–Gillingham?Episode transcript Julian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma, and there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child. My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host. Welcome to Season 3. Welcome back, listeners. So, on today's episode, we're talking about a learning difference that impacts many people, dyslexia. October is National Dyslexia Awareness Month. Joining us for today's conversation is Dr. Lauren McClenney-Rosenstein. Dr. Lauren has been a certified special educator for ten years. She's also the CEO and founder of Think Dyslexia, and she's also the host of "Dyslexia Mom Boss" podcast, a podcast that explores mom guilt and understanding the special education journey. Please help me welcome Dr. Lauren to the show. Woohoo! Welcome. Lauren: Thank you, Julian. And it's exciting, first of all, to be on this podcast. And I love Understood. I always use Understood as a resource. So, this is just like such an honor to be here. So, thank you.Julian: Dr. Lauren, I really appreciate you being here. One of the things that we always try to start off with is, you know, just kind of talking with each other, get to know each other, because we're going to dig deep into some more issues. But this morning, I got up and I'm in the bathroom brushing my teeth and I hear my daughter at 5:45 a.m., and this little girl, Amalia, eight years old, she is fully dressed. She has her hair done. She has her shoes or socks on. And she has her yoga mat. And she says, "Dad, I just had to get my yoga in before school. I'm ready.". Lauren: I love that. Julian: And I looked at her like, "Girl, why are you awake at 5:30 in the morning doing yoga?" And so, when I think about what's giving me life right now, the fact that my daughter understands how important it is to center herself before school starts. I mean, I say all that to ask, for me, that's giving me life. I want to know about you. What's giving you life right now? Lauren: That's a really good one. You know, I might have to continue on the parenting train. So, my youngest daughter is five and a half and just day two of kindergarten sending her off and all my little sweet girls growing up, and she's wanting to get on the bus and just doing her thing. And my daughter actually has a little meditation mat where she will sometimes pull it out and... Julian: Oh wow! Lauren: ...before bed and say, "Mommy, I just need to take a minute to breathe." Yeah, I think that probably is giving me some life today because that's fresh in my mind. Julian: That's what's up. That's what's up. So, let's get into it. You received a late ADHD diagnosis, is that correct? Lauren: I did. Julian: Would you be open to telling our listeners a little bit more about that journey of how to get diagnosis and how that happened? Lauren: It's funny because I'm always an open book, but I think there was a lot of shame around this, and it really wasn't until this summer was when I started sharing my story. But I was a psychology major undergrad, and I think the reason I was so attracted to psychology was I wanted to understand the human brain. I wanted to understand human interactions, like why are people the way they are as in nature versus nurture? Like, what's behind all of that? And I always struggled in school and I didn't really know why. I was always in trouble. I was always the social butterfly, you know, all these things. And, you know, it wasn't until I was in this abnormal psychology class and I saw like all the signs and symptoms of ADHD, and I was like, "This sounds like me. I wonder if I have this.". And so, I'm the kind of person where I just want you to tell it to me straight. So, I marched down to the local psych center on campus, you know those grad students doing all the testing for the college kids, and I got that diagnosis, right? I was just like, "Oh, this is great and I know what it is. And then I was like, 'Wait, what is this? Why didn't I know this?'" Like, all this. And, you know, there was a lot of shame around it. Like, I had to get some feedback from my parents because there was stuff they needed to have input on when I was a kid. And I think that they were kind of like, "What are you doing? Like, Why is this happening? Like, what's going on here?" So, I went and I did what most people do, which is get on medication. And it was awful for me. So, I was a Division one athlete at Syracuse. I ran track and that was my job to run track because I was a scholarship athlete. Well, this medication I was on was awful. I was losing weight, I was eating like a football player, I lost my personality. But I got to tell you, the only good thing was I made honor roll for the first time ever in college. And I was like, "This isn't worth it." So, I got off the medication. And then I just thought it disappeared. Then I explored education, and that was when I went into my master's program — I wanted to explore elementary ed, but special ed was really what grabbed me. And I think it was because I struggled. And so, when I was in these special ed placements, or even really any placement, any kid that struggled, I was like, "I'm there. Like I know it, I can help you." And that was what drew me in to the neurodiversity, but I didn't know that. I literally stumbled into dyslexia, the world of dyslexia. I'm not dyslexic. Most people that follow my work are like, "What's your dyslexia story?" I'm like, "Don't have one." I was like, "I don't have one. My kids aren't dyslexic, as far as I know. I don't have any family members that have admitted that they're dyslexic. I just was trained in Orton Gillingham and to know how to work with the dyslexic brain.". And so, for years I would coach parents and kids and teachers into this like mindset of like, "Well, this is how you have to differentiate. This is how you need to understand that we all learn differently." And all the while, I wasn't really serving myself. That's when I really had to look at myself in the mirror and say, "All right, I got to do something with this ADHD, because when it goes 15 years without treating it, there are repercussions to that." That's kind of my story in a nutshell. Julian: I'd love to know more just in general about how Think Dyslexia came about. Like, tell us more about that. Lauren: So, it was January of 2020. I was working at a nonprofit whose mission was focused on inclusive education, and really we provided technical assistance to districts, schools. And I just remember sitting in this office just bored, you know, because I have ADHD and I'm like, "I'm so used to bouncing around and going to different classrooms and I'm supposed to sit at a desk and do research." So I said, "I need to do something." So, I started an Instagram account and, but my vision was, "I'm just going to put out all this information that's in my head on social media. Who knows where it's going to go". And so, I started with the old school whiteboard posts with like fun facts about dyslexics and, you know, that really picked up. And then later on, I started doing cam reposts and then lives, and then it turned into this whole kind of research project where I was finding people around the world, sharing their dyslexia story, talking about dyslexia in Egypt, in Oman, in India, in Norway. And Think Dyslexia was really just a resource. It was a place where parents would find the resources. I mean, I had moms who were in my coaching program that were like, "You were the first account that saved my life." And I'm like, "I saved your life? It's like, What do you mean?". Julian: Got it.Julian: And so a podcast came out of this, correct?Lauren: It did. So, my vision was, well, actually I should say this, my account was shut down twice. And, you know, for whatever reasons, Instagram's issues are with that. I needed a platform where I was my content and it couldn't be taken down or taken away. So, that's when I said, "Well, how do I do that? I'm going to create a podcast." Julian: I'm just fascinated that you were able to take this social need, like society needed more information about dyslexia and you've been able to transform it into multiple platforms. And so, I think it's just really cool that you've been able to do that. I want to pivot to the idea of students and children and their rights. We're both parents and we can confidently say that nobody fights harder for a child than their parent or their parenting adult. These adults that are in children's lives, they really just want to see the kids thrive in whatever they choose to do. You know, whatever they decide, they just want to see them do well. And so, I'd like to ask specifically for those parenting adults of children of color, because we really focus on the opportunity gap of children of color and their experience. Why is it so important for them specifically to advocate for their children? Lauren: If you go back to the start of this country, OK? And this is a little quick history lesson. Like it wasn't a right or it wasn't a law for kids to go to school. And so, I think if you think back to the beginning of time where it really wasn't a law for kids to go to school because of agriculture and farming and all of that, it was more of a luxury then, of course, it's not going to be honored for people of color. And so, I just feel like this is a systemic issue. Also in the Black community, I think it's twofold. We don't always talk about disabilities, and when we do, there's a lot of shame and guilt around it and there's a lot of, "Oh, well, that's just so and so on and he figured it out when he was ten." And it's like, no. But the other issue is that there's resources that just aren't accessible. There are things in just the brown and Black community, we just don't know what we don't know. So, it's a lot easier to put that energy somewhere else or to come off if you come to the school as the angry Black mom, because you know there's something wrong with your kid, but you don't know how to advocate, right? Because you don't have the words or the resources to say, "I think this is what's happening." So, you have to take a look at who's teaching our children and whether they realize it or not. There's the biases that they have, the microaggressions, the, whatever it is, where it's ingrained in us. Julian: I'm interested in knowing some of the experiences you have with the families you work with. I'm curious, like, what are you seeing about our experiences? And I say "our" as in those of us that are people of color. Lauren: That's another great question. So, in terms of my personal private practice business, most of my clients are white. Julian: Interesting. Lauren: Yeah, and I think it is...how do I word this? It's an economic issue and it's also a lack of knowledge. Julian: And can you explain what that is for the reader? And you had mentioned that earlier. You know, those of us that are not in the business. Explain what that is. Lauren: Orton Gillingham is a buzzword now. Orton Gillingham, two people. Samuel Orton, was a neuropsychologist, and Anna Gillingham, I believe, was a speech-language pathologist. And they, this was like over 100 years ago, OK? And they understood the neurodiverse brain, the dyslexic brain. They understood that there had to be a multi-sensory approach to teaching these children to read. Most people think that kids just know how to read, and that is not the case. There's so much brain science behind it and there have to be wires connecting. And if you have dyslexia and other language-based learning differences, things aren't firing and you have to do it a different way. So, I was classically trained through the Orton Gillingham Academy. And what that means is you have a fellow, you do a certain hour of coursework practicum and you have to apply to get into the academy. So, there are many levels of what Orton Gillingham can look like. And so, if you're a parent out there and you're like, "Oh yeah, I got an Orton Gillingham tutor," you need to vet them. You need to say, "Did you go through the academy? Who was your fellow?". Now there are other certifications that are just as credentialed. But I think the thing is, is that when you have a true dyslexia therapist or an Orton Gillingham-trained practitioner, it's very expensive. And it's expensive because — and you'll understand this, Julian, because you're an assistant principal — there's no curriculum, OK? This literally requires you to know the child and take your skill set of being — because I'm also an educational therapist — of bringing that sound approach. So, if, like, I've worked with middle schoolers that can't really read, I'm not going to start off with Shakespeare because it's eighth-grade content. We're going to get to the nitty gritty, roll up the sleeves, and if you don't A apple, that's where we're starting. Obviously, you have to make it, you know, appropriate and protect their ego. But Orton Gillingham or as I said, other dyslexia therapists like we do the work and we know that we individualize what that child needs. And so, I think when you bring that to our community, there's just not a lot of knowledge around that. And then I think in general when a parent is like, "Oh, well, I need what you have and my kid can't read and, you know, I don't know what to do," but then you hit him with the ticket of "Here's how much this costs," then that can, that sometimes presents to be a problem and it turns into an economic issue. Like, are you middle, upper middle class? Can you afford, you know, X amount of hours? Because let's be honest here, you're not going to see progress unless you have a set amount of hours put in. Julian: Yeah, that's I mean, that's true across the board. And again, I see it at the administrative level where, you know, there's supports that are in place based on what people can afford and what they can't afford. And, you know, we do know that there are definitely schools that have fantastic reading intervention programs and early intervention programs. Lauren: Exactly. Julian: Where there's a process called MTSS, where people are able to figure out and diagnose and intervene immediately, whereas other schools and other school districts. For some of our listeners, you may be in a school or a school district that doesn't have a strong reading intervention program, and so your child might not get identified early on, or you might just have that gut feeling like "My baby just can't read as well as everybody else." And there's so much info out there so you don't know, "What should I pick? What should I do?" All I'm seeing are these things that cost tons and tons of money to do tutoring. And so, my question to you is, if I'm a parent in a situation like that, where I recognize there's not a really solid reading intervention program at my child's school, but I also, I can't really swing paying $300 a month for extra tutoring, right? What are some other ways that you would advocate as a coach, as somebody that's been in this a lot, how would you advocate for parents to represent their children and find a way to solve that situation? Lauren: First things first, you're listening to this podcast. That's a great place to start. I would definitely say check out my podcast "Dyslexia Mom Boss" and what is really important for a parent — and this is what I say all the time to parents — you need to educate yourself on what dyslexia is, you need to educate yourself on what language-based learning disabilities or differences are. And then the next thing I always tell parents is once you have an understanding of that, then you need to understand your child in that context. You can't just say, "Oh, this is what dyslexia is and this is my kid," because it's a spectrum. So, you need to understand the diagnosis or the suspected diagnosis. So, what I always recommend is if you think your child has dyslexia, go to the Mayo Clinic and type in signs and symptoms of dyslexia. Julian: The Mayo Mayo Clinic, OK good. Lauren: And what I love about it — I always reference this —what I love about it is it gives you stages. So, it gives you, what is it like... not birth, I think it's like two. They call it before school age. So, it's probably like right around the time where kids are starting to develop language to about four or five, and then they have school-aged, which is kindergarten to fifth grade, and then they have teens and adults. And so, if you are an educator, you're looking at this and you see the developmental stages of like, oh yeah, by the time they're in middle school, they should be doing this. By the time they're in high school, they should be doing this. Well, it gives you an extensive signs and symptoms and that is a great way for you to do an informal screener online to be like, "Oh, tick, tick. I think this might be an issue." Now, getting the actual diagnosis now that can be challenging. You know, if you're in public school, you have to have a reason to bring this to the table for your child to even get supports. Now, Julian, you touched on MTSS, and that's a whole different episode and a whole different conversation. But if your school is doing things in the right manner, your child should be receiving Tier one and then Tier two and then Tier three, and then if they're still aren't getting the results they need, that's when they can possibly be up for special ed, which means that's when they can possibly be tested. Problem is, is that takes time. And so, this is where money comes into the situation where "I'm going to go get a private psych evaluation. I'm going to go find somebody because I know there's something wrong with my kid. And my kid needs that support." So there's so many different things where eventually money does come into play. But I think the free tips are the podcast, the Mayo Clinic, go to the International Dyslexia Association. There are a lot of resources there. I would say start with that with the, you know, low-cost things. Julian: Great, great. I mean, everything that you said is to access like, that's the most important thing is really understanding that it's not incredibly difficult to access, it's taking the time to do it. Now, I will say, you know, parents or parenting adults, if you feel like your student or your child is not getting the interventions that they need, then ask for a list of interventions that are being used in school. It's as simple as that. Just make sure to ask, "Hey, what's happening in school in terms of interventions? I feel like I have concerns about my child's reading ability. Can you tell me some things that you've tried?" That's a really easy first step, and then you can ask about MTSS, like we mentioned. And then you can ask the school "What are some other suggestions or resources you might have for supporting our child with their reading because we really want to help them. Can you give us or provide us with information?". And I will say that nine times out of ten you'll be able to at least get something from that. And from the administrator lens, if a parent comes in and is asking that, then I know "All right. We got to make sure that we're providing, because they've done their research, they've done their homework, they're ready. Let's make sure that we get that going for them."Lauren: Yeah. I would agree. Julian: One last question. Just thinking about similar conversations with schools. And again, I'm going to take the administrator hat off and I want to hear from you as a mom. Lauren: Sure. Julian: What are some ways that you think parents or parenting adults can build stronger relationships with schools? Lauren: So, I'm going to give a quick answer, but then I'm going to explain why. I think being vulnerable is a really huge part to building a strong relationship. Julian: Say more about that. Being vulnerable. Say more about that. Lauren: Yeah, we're all human, right? Julian, You wear that administrative hat, but you're also a dad. You're also a man. You're also a husband. You also get sick. You also get sad, like we're human. I strongly believe and I'm speaking from personal experience. You cannot communicate effectively or have healthy, positive relationships if your nervous system is not regulated. So, when you are all the time stressed all the time worrying about this anxiety-filled and coming from a place of like, my kid needs this, like you're irritable, you're not easy to talk to you, you're not listening. And I think that parents need to understand, "If I can regulate myself and just say I'm really lost, I don't know how to help my child, can we do this together?" I think that's where you have that like, that's where the rubber meets the road. That's where teachers are not defensive because teachers will come to the table if a parent is, because I've seen it, a parent is yelling at them like, "You didn't do this, you didn't fill out the IEP. My kid is behind." And the teachers are like, "Whoa, I got 35 kids in here. I don't even have time to pee." And it's like, this is not productive. Julian: You're right, it's too much. And I think really making sure you try to put your self in the eyes or the perspective of the other party is really important. As the teacher, try to understand where the parent is coming from, and as the parent try to understand where the teacher's coming from. That helps things go a really long way. Well, Dr. Lauren, we could talk all day long, and I really, I appreciate it. I love your energy. I love your story. I love the work that you're doing. Lauren: Thank you. Julian: The fact that you're putting yourself out there. It's been a fun conversation. It's been very insightful, especially for me just on dyslexia and some of the work that you've done. Listeners, before we go, as always, I have some really helpful resources to share. I'm going to share them in a second. I just want to one more time, say thank you so much to Dr. Lauren. Come back again at some point. We have some more conversation to have. Lauren: Definitely. Julian: So, listeners, some resources. One, check out Dr. Lauren's podcast. I've listened, is pretty solid. "Dyslexia Mom Boss." "Dyslexia Mom Boss." Also, she gave us a really good tip to type in Mayoclinic.org. Check out The Mayo Clinic. If you have any questions about dyslexia, you can get some levels around or what you're seeing and symptoms and it's really informative. You can also, obviously, learn ways you can help your child with dyslexia from Understood.org. That's right. Understood.org. It is top of the town. We do it right over at Understood. Then also hear why this doctor says she would never want to be cured of dyslexia, even if she could be, in an episode of "In It," one of our sister podcasts on Understood. Listeners, we will talk and listen soon. Thank you for joining "The Opportunity Gap." Ciao! "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Tara Drinks, edited by Cin Pim. Ilana Millner is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show for the Understood Podcast Network. Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening. See you next time.
Informed consent in the special education process: What you need to know
During the evaluation and special education process, parents have many legal rights and protections. Informed consent is one of them. Before the school can take certain actions, it must inform you and get your written consent. This right gives you a voice in decisions about your child’s education.But when does the school need your informed consent? And how does the school get it? Read on to find out.When the school must ask for your consentUnder the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), the school must ask for your consent at these times:Before the school conducts an initial evaluation or a reevaluation of your childBefore the school provides special education services to your child for the first time through an IEPBefore inviting non-school agencies to participate in IEP meetings to discuss your child’s transition to adult lifeYou must give permission in each situation above. For example, say you gave informed consent for an evaluation. Later, if the school wants to provide special education services, it must get your informed consent again.Keep in mind that states and local schools may have rules requiring informed consent at other times as well.If the school takes one of these actions without getting your consent, you have options. You can ask for due process or file a state complaint.The legal definition of informed consentAccording to IDEA, informed consent has three requirements:You’ve been fully informed about what the school wants to do. The school will typically send you a letter or document describing what will happen in detail. This is known as prior written notice. You have the right to ask the school to explain anything you don’t understand. You also have the right to receive this notice (as well as give your consent) in your native language, like Spanish or even braille.You understand and agree in writing. Even if you say that you agree in a conversation or meeting, the school can’t proceed. The school needs your signature (or written agreement).You understand that consent is voluntary and that you can withdraw or deny consent at any time. The school must send you a written notice of your and your child’s legal rights, called procedural safeguards.What happens if you refuse to consentYou can refuse to give informed consent simply by saying no. A parent can also refuse by just not answering when asked. If you don’t give consent, the school can’t act. It’s your decision.Sometimes a school can’t get in contact with a parent. Or the school wants to evaluate or reevaluate a child, but a parent refuses. In these cases, the school can try to use dispute resolution options like mediation or due process to get an evaluation.However, this only applies to evaluations. The school may never “override” your decision not to allow special education services for your child.When informed consent isn’t neededIt’s important to know that the school doesn’t need to get informed consent in every situation. Without your consent, the school can:Give your child tests that are given to all children, including standardized testsReview the results of previous evaluationsAlso, once you consent in writing to special education services for the first time, the school doesn’t need your consent again to implement an IEP. It doesn’t need to keep asking permission. However, if the school wants to change your child’s IEP, it does need to give you prior written notice. And you’re always able to withdraw your consent.Learn moreExplore an overview of your rights in the special education process.Debunk common myths about your child’s rights. And read how to consent to part of an IEP but not others.
The Opportunity GapBlack History Month: Celebrating Lois, Solange, and Octavia
Learn about three pioneering Black women with disabilities — activist Lois Curtis, singer Solange Knowles, and author Octavia E. Butler. For Black History Month, we’re celebrating three Black women who have each been changemakers in their own way: Science-fiction author Octavia E. Butler, who had undiagnosed dyslexiaGrammy winner Solange Knowles, who has ADHDActivist Lois Curtis, whose Supreme Court victory was a landmark case in the disability rights movementLearn about these pioneering women from three friends of The Opportunity Gap. Each of these presenters has been on the podcast before and deserves to be celebrated for their own advocacy work: Poet LeDerick HorneCommunity organizer Atira RobersonBlack Boy Thrive founder Busola SakaRelated resourcesThe official site of Octavia E. ButlerOctavia E. Butler as an author of disability literatureSolange Knowles: Role model for African American performers with disabilitiesLois Curtis, whose lawsuit secured disability rights, dies at 55Episode transcriptJulian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host.Julian: We have a very special episode of "The Opportunity Gap." Since it's Black History Month, we want to highlight some amazing Black women with different disabilities. Each of them has impacted the world in their own unique way, whether it's performing across the globe, writing futuristic science fiction stories, or fighting against injustice. The reason why we celebrate these Black pioneers is to remember all the contributions, sacrifices, and key roles that changed lives throughout history and today. We have to remember that we are standing on the shoulders of giants. We would not be here without the work of all of these pioneers. This podcast would not exist without the work that they've put in. And so, we want to give them their flowers today.In this episode, we're also going to pass the mic to some of our friends from the podcast. The people you're hearing today are disability activists in their own right and deserve to be celebrated for their work as well. First, I would like to introduce Busola Saka from Black Boy Thrive, a grassroots platform that is all about advocating for black boys who face discrimination in school. She understands this experience firsthand and is building a community with other parents facing the same challenges. Today we have Busola and her son Jimi, who just turned eight and who is the inspiration for Black Boy Thrive. They're going to tell us all about the phenomenal story of the late, great science fiction writer Octavia E. Butler. Take it away, Busola.Busola: Thanks, Julian. I'm so thrilled to share Octavia's story because I believe stories show us the lives of different people and exposes us to different ways of living and different challenges that people face. For example, I love to read. I'm an avid reader and I encourage my children to read as well. We spend a lot of our leisure time reading different books. Jimi, do you know what science fiction is?Jimi: Science with imagination.Busola: Science with imagination. That's right. Octavia was really good at it. She was one of the first Black people and one of the first women to write these kinds of books. And she had dyslexia. Here's her story. Octavia E. Butler was an award-winning science fiction author whose stories explore themes of global warming, injustice, women's rights, and is perhaps most well-known for writing characters of color into futuristic worlds where they have historically been excluded.Born in Pasadena, California, in 1947, Octavia was raised by her mother and grandmother as the civil rights movement was beginning to gain ground. Octavia was incredibly shy as a child, and despite great intelligence, she had a very hard time in school where she struggled with undiagnosed dyslexia and was bullied by other kids. Is bullying okay?Jimi: No, sirree.Busola: No, sirree. Octavia wrote in her personal diaries "When my dyslexia became a problem in school … my teachers told my mother that I was lazy and just not trying." She found her outlet through imagination and self-expression, writing short stories, reading, and spending as much time as she could at the public library. Octavia was determined to become a professional writer, but she struggled for decades to get her stories published in an industry where Black central characters, themes of political injustice, climate change, and women's rights weren't seen as commercially viable. To get by, Octavia worked odd jobs as a telemarketer, potato chip inspector, and dishwasher. Do you think it'd be fun to be a potato chip inspector?Jimi: Yes. Is Doritos potato chips?Busola: No, I don't think so. But if you were looking inspecting potato chips, what would you look for?Jimi: Ruffles.Busola: And you want to make sure that there's no burnt parts, right? So, that's what Octavia did. She inspected potato chips to make sure they were okay. While Octavia was working these kinds of odd jobs, she'd wake up at every day at 2 a.m. to write. Eventually, she published her first novel, "Pattern Maker," and expanded it into a five-part series. She went on to write popular novels such as "Kindred," "Blood Child," and many more, changing expectations about science fiction and paving the way for many other black authors in the genre. She received many awards for her books, one of them being the first-ever science fiction author to receive the MacArthur Genius grant.Octavia Butler passed away in 2006 and leaves behind a legacy of using literature to challenge racial stereotypes and white privilege. She once said in an interview to PBS, "Do the thing that you love, and do it as well as you possibly can and be persistent about it."Julian: Thank you so much, Jimi and Busola. I love the commentary about the potato chip inspecting. It definitely interested me too. I have to say, it makes me just so happy that we're highlighting Octavia. She had dyslexia, yet she was able to become an author. I also remember as a child, reading some of her books, like my mom was even into her books way back in the day. "Kindred" was something that was on our coffee table. And the fact that she was able to highlight all of these amazing Black characters in the science fiction genre is just a testament to the power of her creativity. So, shout out and flowers go to Octavia Butler.The next woman we want to highlight for Black History Month is Lois Curtis. And to tell her story, we have our good friend, LeDerick Horne. LeDerick is a poet, author, professional speaker, disability rights advocate, and special education consultant. Welcome, LeDerick.LeDerick: Hey Julian. I'm glad to be back on the show to shine a light on an incredible activist and to highlight the impact of an amazing woman. Lois Curtis was a visual artist and an advocate for disability rights. Her lawsuit against the state of Georgia fought to end the practice of segregating people with disabilities, and her Supreme Court victory stands as a major accomplishment of the disability rights movement. Lois grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, in the '70s. She was born with intellectual and developmental disabilities that her family were under-resourced to support on their own.As a child, Lois often wandered from home, and in an effort to get her daughter more care, her mother eventually called emergency services, which unfortunately led to her being institutionalized at the Georgia Regional Hospital starting at the age of 11. Her doctors said there was no reason for her to be there, but the state did not allocate any funding so she could live in her community. During the years she was living in the hospital, Lois experienced a low quality of life and was treated with psychiatric medication that kept her heavily sedated. A social worker introduced her to a lawyer at the Atlanta Legal Aid Society. And Lois' first question for the lawyer was, "When am I getting out of here?"Through the Atlanta Legal Aid Society, Lois found a way to fight for her right to live in her own community. In 1995, Lois filed a lawsuit against the state of Georgia, claiming discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which states that services need to be provided in an integrated setting appropriate to the needs of the individual. The setting Lois was living in was not only degrading to her quality of life, it was a civil rights violation. The case made it all the way to the Supreme Court, which ruled in Lois' favor in 1999.Eventually, she was able to move into her own apartment with community support and focus on her art. Lois is best known for her portrait pieces. She even presented one of her self-portraits to President Barack Obama. Lois Curtis passed away in the fall of 2022 and leaves behind a profound legacy for all people with disabilities. Her legal victory ensures that regardless of state funding, people with disabilities cannot be unjustly segregated.One of the reasons why I love Lois Curtis's story is because she had a vision for her life that was so big, living in that hospital, there was really no path before her to be able to get her out and living in her community. But she held on to that vision and fought very hard with the support of allies to make that vision a reality. And I remember being in special ed as a teenager, coming up with this crazy idea that I was going to go to college someday, and I didn't see a path for it. No one had explained to me what transition services were, that there were supports for folks with learning disabilities on a college setting. But I held on to that dream, too.And so, I think that she's this incredible source of inspiration for all of us that have a vision for our own lives or for the future of our nation or the future of this world, that through fight and through collaboration, we can all work to make that vision a reality.Julian: Thank you so much, LeDerick. I remember a couple of weeks back where I read her obituary and it just sparked an idea that, you know, we need to put out the information about all of these amazing advocates that we don't really hear about or learn about as much. So, thank you so much, Lois, for all the work that you've done. And we hope that we've done you justice.Our last story is about someone who might not need an introduction, Solange Knowles, and to share her story, we have our good friend, Atira Roberson. Atira is a community organizer at the National Center for Learning Disabilities. She's worked with different organizations, including Understood.org. She's also been very open about her own learning and thinking differences. Okay, Atira. You got it.Atira: Hey, Julian. Thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me to come back on a special episode of "The Opportunity Gap." So, today I get the chance to read to you a little bit about Miss Solange Knowles. Solange Knowles is a Grammy-winning singer-songwriter who was born in 1986 in Houston, Texas. Solange was born into a family of musicians and became an artist in her own right from a very young age. At just 13 years old, Solange was performing as a backup dancer with Destiny's Child. And at 16, she was creating her own music and acting in both film and TV. It was Solange's Grammy-winning album, "A Seat at the Table," which solidified her status as an icon and champion of Black pride. This album spoke about empowerment, joy, self-love, trauma, and Black rage.What Solange means to me as an artist, she is not your typical run-of-the-mill R&B artist. One of my favorite songs from her is "Cranes in the Sky." She's absolutely amazing. I love her voice. It's different, her energy and everything. I love it so much.Many people don't know this, but Solange was diagnosed with ADHD. She didn't quite believe her diagnosis at first. Solange has said "I didn't believe the first doctor who told me. I had a whole theory that ADHD was just something they invented to make you pay for medicine. But then the second doctor told me I had it." Opening up about her ADHD has made Solange a role model to many people in the black community.So, when I think about what it means to me to know that Solange Knowles has ADHD, it makes me feel like, and furthermore confirms, that I am not alone in having someone, a celebrity at that who looks like me. A Black girl, hashtag Black girls have ADHD. You know, we're out there, we're thriving. We're not just surviving. Because if she can do it, you know, so can I, because someone out there, a little Black girl, a little Black boy, needs to see that this is what ADHD looks like. It looks like you. It looks like me and it looks like Solange Knowles. And you can not only have it, but you can have it and thrive. Having such a widely admired artist open up about being neurodiverse will lead to more acceptance and more encouragement for people to embrace their own differences.Busola: Don't touch my hair.Julian: Oh, Solange, Solange, Solange. Thank you so much for being an advocate for ADHD. Somebody like yourself who is able to come out and speak openly about ADHD and own who you are and how it impacts your abilities is such a testament to who you are as a person. And we appreciate it. Atira, thank you so much. Thank you to all of our guests for joining us for this special episode.All of our guests today have appeared on prior episodes of the show. If you want to find out more information about them, please check out our show notes.I want to leave you with a quote from Octavia E. Butler and to help me out with this, I'm going to pass the mic back to our youngest guest, Jimi.Jimi: All that you touch, you change. All that you change, changes you. Our only lasting truth is change. Happy Black History Month.Julian: You've been listening to "The Opportunity Gap" from the Understood Podcast Network. This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Is there a topic you'd like us to cover? We want to hear from you. Email us at OpportunityGap@understood.org.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission."The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Julie Rawe, edited by Cin Pim. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Is there a standard form or template for 504 plans?
Q. Do schools use a standard form for 504 plans like they do for IEPs? Does a 504 plan even have to be written?A. The short answer to these questions is no. There are many differences between 504 plans and IEPs.IEP forms are based on a federal model. States usually use that exact form or adapt it to create one of their own. Federal law says there are certain elements that all IEPs need to address.With 504 plans, however, each school district develops its own plans. There is no standard form. There isn’t even a requirement that the plan be written.Parents’ rights under Section 504Unlike with IEPs, schools aren’t required to involve parents when developing a 504 plan. But under Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, parents do have specific rights in all public schools and some private schools. You have the right to:Get a notice about the identifying, evaluating, and/or placing of your childExamine your child’s recordsIf you don’t agree with the district’s decisions regarding Section 504, you have the right to:Request and take part in an impartial hearingFile a complaint with your school district’s Section 504 coordinatorFile a complaint with the regional Office for Civil RightsWritten 504 plansWhile it’s not required, most schools do use a written form for a 504 plan. Most also include parents in the 504 process. And plans usually include a list of your child’s accommodations.If your child has a written 504 plan, make sure to ask the school’s 504 coordinator to show it to you. (You should always be able to speak with the coordinator about your child. Don’t know who the coordinator is? You can start by reaching out to the principal or assistant principal.)If you’re going to your child’s 504 plan meeting, make sure you’re prepared and ready to participate. It can help to create your own unofficial written 504 plan to take with you. That way you can make sure all the right elements go into the official plan from the school.
The Opportunity GapUndocumented families and IEP meeting fears
Kareem Neal, a special education teacher in Arizona, shares why undocumented families may be fearful of advocating for their kids. Advocating for your kids in an IEP meeting can be scary for any family. Now imagine your family is undocumented. Imagine the fear of immigration enforcement as you try to get help for your kids who learn and think differently. In this episode, hosts Julian Saavedra and Marissa Wallace talk with Kareem Neal, a Black special education teacher in Arizona. Kareem shares his experiences with kids with IEPs from undocumented families. He explains how parents can find champions within the school system to help them advocate for their kids. He and Julian also talk about what it means to be a Black educator.Related resourcesLearn about the rights of undocumented families to special education.Check out eight steps to advocating for your child at school.Not sure why your child is struggling? Check out Take N.O.T.E.Episode transcriptAndrew: Discover all of Understood's podcasts, where we talk candidly about challenges with reading, writing, focus, and other learning differences. Our podcasts bring new voices and perspectives you won't hear anywhere else. Explore the highs and lows of raising kids with learning challenges. Learn about the surprising ways ADHD symptoms can surface in kids and adults. And hear stories from working professionals who learn and think differently. On the Understood Podcast Network, there's a podcast for everyone. Find your new favorite today at u.org/podcasts.Julian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra. Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us. Welcome back to the show, Marissa. How are you?Marissa: Yes. It's that long stretch before break. It's so close — seven days away? Five days away? The longest five days of our lives.Julian: But despite all of that, it's time to wake up because we have a really fascinating, interesting, and exciting show today. What we're going to be talking about is really for our parents, our caregivers, our guardians out there, who are worried or sometimes fearful about advocating or speaking up in school or during special education meetings. Specifically really zeroing in on our families that are undocumented, our families that have situations happening with their immigration status that really makes an extra challenge. So Andrew, our illustrious Understood member, is going to come and talk to us today about our special guest.Andrew: Hey, thanks Julian. I was able to book a guest for the show who works with many undocumented families. Kareem Neal is a special education teacher in Arizona. He has over two decades of experience working with kids. He works in Maryvale High School, which is in the Phoenix Union School District in Arizona. Over 81% of the students in that district identify as Hispanic. More than half of them speak a language other than English at home. There are, in fact, over a hundred languages spoken among student families in the school district. And there's a large refugee population.Just a few other cool facts about Kareem. He was named the 2019 Teacher of the Year by the Council of Chief State School Officers. He's the vice-president of his school district's Black Alliance. And he's a Teacher Fellow for Understood, which we are really proud of. So let's welcome Kareem to the show.Julian: Kareem. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. We're so excited that you're here. How's it going?Kareem: Good. Good. Thanks for having me. It's always fun to hear about my supposed accolades, but I just think about the 25 years in the classroom, man, teaching special ed in high school. Love it. Julian: The blessing that you've been in the classroom for that amount of time, I mean, 25 years, that's deep.Kareem: Yeah, I'm feeling good though. I'm not leaving. Marissa: Kids keep you young, though, right? They keep you young.Kareem: I tell everybody I'm not going. Like I, you know, I won some awards and things like that. And everybody wants to like, take me out of the classroom. It's weird. I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying. Julian: Well, Kareem, we're really excited to have you here because one of the issues that you have ample experience is in relation to special education and the experience that our families are having when they're coming into the schools. Because a lot of our listeners are families that are wondering what can they do to support and advocate for their children when they're dealing with schools. So I'd love for you to kind of jump in and talk about why parents or guardians or caregivers might be a little bit fearful or afraid of coming into school and advocating for their kids.Kareem: Yeah. I mean, in general, a lot of people don't think of it this way, particularly like other teachers, business folks, the upper middle class folks of the world, where it feels like the world is your oyster. And I think even like my parents, you don't necessarily feel like those places are for you. If you don't feel like they're for you, it's harder for you to have that normal voice you have, right? So when I think about all the Black, all the brown parents I've had, and I've only ever taught in areas where it was like low income, they don't feel like they could even talk like they normally talk when they're in meetings, right? And so if you don't feel like spaces are for you, it already is holding you back a tiny bit. And then I jump into the fact that, so I'm working in an area where there tends to be a decent amount of undocumented folks, and then they're not trusting it. Marissa: So when we talk about fear that families have, specifically families who are undocumented and have concerns with their immigration status, can you kind of be more specific about where does that fear come from? What's actually going on in schools right now that would create that fear in a family?Kareem: I mean, it's happening a lot outside of schools. But that doesn't mean that a parent's going to then feel safe at school, right? So like this area has had a lot of ICE raids, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. So my community has had a lot of like ICE raids happen and they are tapped in. Then they turn on a TV and see people being taken away from their families. And that's tough. I mean, I've had students just disappear one day and a couple months later it was like, oh, yeah, they quickly moved to Texas because their neighbor got pulled by ICE and they were just scared and they just did it.And then that's it. So it would be akin to being like a Black community, knowing about like police brutality, right? It's a big deal for a lot of the undocumented folks here. And so for them, it's a real fear. Even if it's not happening in their school, it's happening in the community. Their school is a part of their community. And it's a place where a lot of the folks who look like, sound like ICE agents work, right? So they're not feeling that comfortable being like, "Oh, Ima be bold and proud and maybe piss somebody off who work in that building, and maybe they'll stand next to us," right? So, it's a big deal. That's a big deal.Julian: Do you talk about it as a staff? Kareem: We totally talk about it as a special education staff. A lot. We get really frustrated by parents not coming to meetings and things like that. But we are tapped in enough to know it's like, oh, they're not lazy. It's not like they don't care about their kids. We wish our parents weren't so afraid of it, right? So we wish we could communicate that to all parents, right? Send a note home: "Hey, ICE isn't coming. Come on in to the IEP meeting." And IEP is an individual education plan, for those non special ed folks. ICE has a policy by the way, that says they don't come into schools. But when we talk about the importance of having a parent on an IEP, it's like we got to reschedule that thing 20 times because we can't even get them on a phone sometimes. It's a real fear. I know that if I thought my family was in danger of getting picked up by an agent and just taken away one day, maybe I will stay close to home.Julian: For those that are not experiencing that day to day — I mean, most of our listeners are not in the situation where they're worried about their immigration status — this adds a completely different layer to the already tenuous and uncomfortable situation of coming to a school to talk about special needs for your child. Imagine and empathize with the fact that these are families that are nervous for their residency status. How do you all manage to find ways to go above and beyond that?Kareem: One of the big things you can do as a teacher is start building a relationship with all your families so they can start at least trusting you, if nothing else. So I have parents who will lean on me and be like, "Hey, do I have to give my social security?" "No, you never have to give that." "Can I do this? Can I say that?" "Yes. You always can do that." So I think teachers, if you're listing, please like build strong relationships with the parents of the students in your classroom, because that will be one barrier in helping them say, oh, OK. I can feel comfortable like attending meetings. So, yeah, it's a lot. It's deep. Because — I think about even me, like I grew up in Trenton, New Jersey. It was not the kind of place where you expect the world to see you and love you. And so being where I am now, it feels a whole different thing. Like I do feel comfortable now in business spaces. I do feel comfortable in groups of professional folks, whereas I didn't back in a day. And even as I started my teaching career, even I didn't feel that comfortable advocating for myself, let alone how parents are feeling jumping into this space that is not theirs and advocating for somebody.Marissa: Yeah. You made such a key point about the building relationships that I don't always feel that people understand what that means, right? Or like tangible things to do that, because you have to gain the parent, the student, the caregiver's trust. Cause the relationship won't go anywhere if that trust is not set. So I'm curious: What have you found in your 25 years of experience that has allowed you to build that trust first, to be able to then expand on a relationship with families?Kareem: The funniest thing that I did lately — last few years — and it's worked like a charm, is I found this site that automatically translates. So it's called Class Dojo. And I actually initially grabbed it because it kind of works well for kids in self-contained classrooms from the gate. But then it automatically translates what I say and automatically translates what parents say. And so we got them all on there, and I was constantly posting pictures of what was happening in my classroom, posting pictures of work. And all of a sudden we all felt closer.Marissa: That's awesome. Kareem: Before, I had a lot of parents who would go straight to the paraprofessional in my classroom who spoke Spanish, and they would talk to them. Now they felt comfortable coming up to me while still having maybe an interpreter nearby. But it was just like, they felt comfortable with me because they felt like they knew me, because we're talking all the time, right? So finding that kind of communication tool if nothing else. I had a kid who, him and his family, they signed. And I went and learned sign language, right? The Spanish — I'm trying to learn Spanish. And I'm terrible at learning Spanish apparently. But at least I found this tool that made us feel closer as a group. And then it was just like, our relationships took off. And that kind of thing then makes a person say, oh, I can trust this person if he's saying I don't have to do this, or don't worry about that. Or ICE can't come to our school, stuff like that. You need that.Julian: I wish my kids were in your classroom. I can already feel the vibe. Kareem, I want to go back to what you talked about, where you mentioned how people feel like they have to go into spaces that are not theirs. What does that mean? Just for the people listening, clarify what that is.Kareem: We all have a culture. Like I think about when I went to Arizona, it was just like, oh, Black folks, I'm very comfortable with Black folks. Well, Black folks in Arizona weren't like Black folks in New Jersey. So I still had to build a new community with them. But like the folks who are coming from areas where most of the people aren't earning that much money — people are typically not used to being in settings where people are using all of these acronyms and they're buttoned up. They're used to a different kind of thing.It would be like telling all of my administrators, "All right, go out in Maryvale and hang out with some people out in Maryvale. Go to a cookout over there." Right? They might not feel that comfortable, because that's not your vibe, not your culture. And so it takes some time to acclimate yourself to a new one.And so we're assuming like a freshmen will come in school and a parent will just feel comfortable in this new school. That's not how it goes down. Schools don't feel like it feels like in their house, when you're not speaking the same language automatically. Whereas, like you're coming in here in strictly the Queen's English. And you're like, I don't really speak like that, you know? And it's really difficult for you to then say, oh, this place is for me, until they let you feel like no, this place is for everybody. Today, I actually met, I had a new student, Black student. Met his mom. She didn't automatically feel comfortable with me because I'm Black. She had to dole me out as a person and see what I'm about and see if I am welcoming to her as well, right?Julian: I love that you said it doesn't automatically create a relationship because you share a race or you share some common characteristics. And it sometimes comes across as a misconception that we can solve all these problems if we just get a bunch of Black teachers or we get a bunch of Spanish-speaking teachers, it's going to switch things up. And that's not the case at all. Kareem: No doubt. Julian: Kareem, think back to some of the experiences that you've had with some of your families. What would you say to them as a way for them to make themselves feel like they can advocate for their kids with you? What kind of things should they be doing? Or how should they approach walking into a situation where they have to speak up for their kids?Kareem: When talking about the way parents advocate for students, every single one, I'm like, always feel comfortable speaking. Take the time to get to know as many people at your school as possible, because that'll make you feel more comfortable, right? So go ahead and make as many relationships as you can everywhere. And then I would say, be close to your IEP team, because you will find yourself feeling more and more comfortable talking to some of the individuals. So an IEP team is usually kind of big: a special ed teacher, regular ed teacher, all the therapists that work with your child. If it's a person who has a health aid, they'll have that person with them, a nurse, behavior specialist. It's a huge team. Say, get to know that team really well, because you will find someone on that team that you feel comfortable talking to. And then that person could also give you that kind of confidence if you need it, right? So fortunately for me and the parents of my classroom, they feel comfortable with me. So at IEP meetings, they're sitting next to me, right? And they're just like ready to talk because they know they feel comfortable. All right, he's going to give me this confidence. He's going to help guide me if I need guidance. And he's the person that is making me feel at home here so that I can start speaking my mind freely. On every campus, you're going to find your person that might be the person that gives you the confidence to be your true self. Julian: Love that. And then that keyword: confidence. Right? Marissa: And that's so important because as a fellow special education teacher and knowing how just intricate our relationship with our families are, and I think in this case, making sure that all families know no matter what their immigration status is, that they're all able to have the right to special education services. That is not something that we will deny them. That's the law. And we support that.Kareem: Yeah, you can't be discriminated against, based on immigration status, in public education, right? You cannot force somebody to talk about their immigration status. Or like I said, provide social security numbers and those kinds of things.Marissa: And that's important, cause I think when we asked parents to sign things, right, it's that nerve-racking moment, you know, like you're asking for that signature. And I think all of those thoughts are going through their head. So that's really helpful for families to know they are protected.Kareem: And that's huge, because then they have the confidence that they need to say, all right, I'm speaking up for my kid because what's ever the harm in that? And I think a lot of undocumented parents have felt that power dynamic. And so they have already been beaten down from some level in the past.Marissa: Oh, yeah. Julian: You mentioned a couple of times, how in your own life experience, how you felt like you didn't necessarily belong in those spaces. It makes me think about the imposter syndrome. How so many times people will walk into a situation and they're kind of like, do I actually belong here? How did I get in this situation?And honestly, I feel like that every single day of my life. But what do you do for yourself to gain your own confidence in situations where you might not even feel that you belong? And I mean, you're pretty impressive in what you've done. What are some things that you do that may be some people that are listening can take to their own experience?Kareem: I kind of do some of the same stuff that I'm urging parents to do. I've been in some wild places, man. The Oval Office, you know, just my senate and house all the time. And I'm just like, this is really wild. But I think about the people that I latched on to that gave me that kind of confidence, right? It was just like, oh, when I go now to my state legislature, which I go to a lot, it's like, oh, I know Lela Alston's going to be there holding me down. Because I met her several times, being there, feel comfortable with her. And so if I'm standing by her, I'm like, OK, I'm going to speak my truth because I know she got me. And so I think these spaces that seem to be big and intimidating, full of people who are nothing like me at all, didn't come from areas that I came from, don't look anything like me, don't sound anything like me. I find a person around to make sure I find my voice based on the fact that I know I have somebody.Julian: So now I kind of want to switch gears a little bit and spend some time unpacking and uplifting your own personal story because you're a Black male educator, which we know that nationally only 2% of educators are Black male educators. But then on top of that, you are a special educator, which is even more specified and hard to come by. I'd love for you to tell the people in general, who are you and how did you come to this? And why do you continue to do this after 25 years?Kareem: I got into special education or in education in general, in an odd way. I was at Seton Hall University in New Jersey — shout-out to them — and I was a chemical engineering major undergrad. I worked at the rec center, and on weekends there were sporting events and it was like one time the Special Olympics came through. And I was just like all in. I met the kids and they were so authentic. So I was just like, I just loved them immediately. So I think getting into it because I love the people, that made it easier for me to get through like the paperwork.And like, I worked three jobs for like eight years. Three jobs. I did respite rehabilitation with a kid with autism after work. And I drove like Uber and Lyft — until recently. It's wild. But I think that was the thing that I was always able to fall back on, right? It was like, no, these are my people. And I think, because it also blended with my advocacy work, I was always kind of a big anti-racist dude, right? I got to college. I read "Autobiography of Malcolm X." I dove into like that, right? I dove into anti-racism. And so when I found special education, I said, oh, I'm going to dive into advocacy for that too, because being an advocate fills the soul type thing, you know what I'm saying? And so I just always loved it.And I still do, 25 years. That's tough to find a job that you love, that you're happy at the end of every day. But on top of that, when I think about some of the extra stuff, some of the advocacy work that I was doing in schools also kind of fed the soul when I wasn't in front of my students, right?Julian: I'm not 25 and you know, both of us have lost our hair. So here we are. But you know, some of the experiences that I've picked up over time is that in many cases, especially in schools with a high population of students of color, the Black men are relied upon for disciplinary management, those types of situations. And I found that a lot of people viewed Black male educators as the ones that needed to jump in and focus on discipline. Has that been your experience as well? And if so, how have you dealt with that?Kareem: Yes, that's been my experience. So when I started here — and I love Maryvale, I've been at Maryvale High School and Phoenix Union School District for 15 years now. And the first week, two things to happen. One, when I interviewed here and got the job, the teacher of this classroom before me, so 16 years ago, she was just like, oh, the kids are going to be fine with you. You're like a big Black guy. So it was just like automatically kids are going to look at me and just be good. And the second thing was that 25 people asked me to be a coach the first week. And I was like, coach what? Coach — have you ever seen me play some sport that I don't know about? Y'all know what I can play? It's crazy. So 15 years ago, the world is a little different. We understand more about microaggressions and things like that. But I do still get from another teacher, "Oh, the student is messing up in my classroom. Dah, dah, dah. He's a young Black kid." And I was just like, man, get to know your class. How about that? How about you build a relationship with them? But yeah, it happens a lot.Julian: I mean, it's kinda like a gift and a curse. The time that other teachers might get in having a chance to make mistakes and mess up in early parts of their career, it seems like a lot of brothers that joined, they're just thrown right in and they're expected to perform at high levels in situations that are difficult for veterans, let alone a brand-new teacher, just because of a potential connection that could be made based on what you're race is. That doesn't automatically make a relationship happen. That's not something that automatically is going to say, well, "Hey, you're Black, I'm Black. Maybe we could be friends." Right? Like then we good. Like, it's not like that, right?Kareem: It was wild to me. Just to be like, oh, I'm like a big Black guy so my kids are just going to be well behaved? I was like, no. And the frustrating part is I have put in countless hours to do the absolute best I can. And I don't want you to just say, oh, you're like a Black dude so everything just fell into place for you. It's like what? Julian: What are you looking to do next? What are you looking to continue? Kareem: Well, I mean, I'm still trying to make school communities better, man, because I do think it's important for people to like love school like I did, you know. And there's people not feeling heard, seen, there's mental health stuff and all that. And I'm just like, we need them to be real communities. Like a lot of schools say community schools on them, and hardly anybody talks to each other. And I think about the special education kids I teach. It was tough helping to make them like a bigger part of my school community. But we did that by like working on it, right? Like doing those kinds of community-building things. We need for students to feel connected to the schools, parents to feel connected to the school. All the folks.Julian: Yeah, just please help us find more Kareems. That's really what I'm going to charge you with is recruit. Kareem: That's the plan. I have mentored, now, six teachers, right now. So six people who are teachers right now because they came through. So I'm trying, I'm trying. Julian: I appreciate that, man. The last thing before we leave out is, you know, just kind of summarize for us one, what would you like to see our families take away from the ideas that we discussed in relation to walking into schools and feeling like they can come as they are and speak up for their children?Kareem: Yes. I mean, parents, I want y'all to try and get out there and meet and grow stronger relationships with the folks that work at your school. That's going to help you find your voice. That's going to help you feel comfortable even walking on that campus and feeling like you're a part of it.Julian: So you're saying that they need to bring in some food to the teachers, because listen, when I get some tamales and some pupusas, some mac and cheese, I'll take all the plates and that'll help a lot.Kareem: That would totally do it. But even just like whenever you can like reach out and talk to the people, you know what I'm saying? Find a way to do that because you'll find out that you'll talk to them and realize that they do care about your kids and they want the best for them, and you'll build the relationships and then you'll start saying, oh, this is my school now. I'm feeling like I'm a part of it. And I'm going to get in there.Julian: Ah, man, I just can't express enough how much I appreciate you taking some time to talk to us and share your story, share your tips. So thank you, brother. Marissa: Thank you. Yes, thank you very, very much.Kareem: Thanks for having me, y'all. This is great.Julian: This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you hear today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice.Go to u.org/opportunitygap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
What happens to your child’s IEP if you switch schools
You and the school have worked together and come up with an IEP. You’ve decided what services your child needs, and you have a plan for reaching your child’s goals. Then you discover you need to switch schools.So what happens to your child’s IEP? Does it go wherever your child goes? The answer: Not always.The first thing to know is that all states and public schools must follow federal law. They must meet the requirements of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). Under IDEA, they must provide a free appropriate public education (FAPE) through an IEP to all eligible children.But different states may have additional special education laws. And although the term IEP is used nationwide, states may also use different words to talk about some of their services. Even different school districts in the same state may do things slightly differently.With all this in mind, here are six scenarios when your child might switch schools, and what happens to an IEP in those situations.Scenario #1: Switching schools within the school districtWhen you move schools within the school district, your child’s IEP stays in place. This is the most clear-cut scenario. An IEP is a legally binding program created by you and the local school district. Since you didn’t move out of district, the IEP doesn’t change. However, the IEP case manager, the special education teacher, and the people who provide related services will likely be different.Scenario #2: Switching to another school district in the same stateWhen you move to another school district in the same state, your child’s new school needs to provide what’s known as “comparable services.” That means the school must provide the same type of services at the same frequency as what’s in your child’s current IEP. The services may not be exactly the same, but they must be similar. That includes any extended school year (ESY) services.Comparable services stay in place until the new school either adopts your child’s current IEP as is, or develops a new one. To develop a new IEP, the school district must go through the standard IEP process. That means you remain a part of the IEP team and will be involved in developing the new program.Scenario #3: Switching to a school district in another stateWhen you move to another state, your child may face different criteria around eligibility for special education services. Your child’s new school must decide if your child qualifies under the state’s rules. That may require a new evaluation. If your child is found eligible, the school will develop a new IEP. As always, you’ll have a chance to give input.While the new school is evaluating your child, it must continue to provide comparable services. You can find out more specifics from the department of education or from the Parent Training and Information Center in the state you’re moving to. It’s a good idea to request your child’s school records as early as possible if you know you’ll be moving out of state.Scenario #4: Switching to a private school (or out-of-district placement)Private schools don’t have to provide IEPs. If you decide on your own to move your child from a public to a private school, the IEP won’t follow you. Your child may be able to get a service plan from the school district where the private school is located. However, this type of plan won’t offer as many services as a standard IEP. (Learn more about the difference between service plans and IEPs.)In some cases, a school district may place a child with an IEP in an out-of-district private school. This is treated as an educational placement, not as a switch of schools. So generally, your child’s IEP will remain in place. However, it’s likely that new people will join the IEP team, and that different people will start working with your child.Placing a child out-of-district is an IEP team decision. If you don’t agree, learn about your options for dispute resolution.Scenario #5: Switching schools for a military transferMany military families move frequently. And while kids often attend traditional public schools, some go to schools operated by the Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA). There are DoDEA schools in seven states, Guam, and Puerto Rico, and in foreign countries. All DoDEA schools offer special education services.If your child has an IEP and is transferring from a traditional public school to a DoDEA school, the DoDEA school will need your child’s educational records. This includes all the evaluation information and the current IEP. The DoDEA then has 30 days to either re-evaluate your child or adopt the existing IEP. In the meantime, it must provide FAPE and comparable services.If your child is transferring from one DoDEA school to another, the new DoDEA school must provide comparable services for 30 days as well. Then, it can either adopt the IEP from the previous DoDEA school or develop a new one.It can be challenging for military families to maintain services for a child with an IEP when transferring. For help, families can enroll in and seek guidance from the military’s Exceptional Family Member Program (EFMP).Scenario #6: Switching schools as a foster childJust like other students, kids in foster care with IEPs are entitled to comparable services when they switch school districts in or out of state. However, developing a new IEP can be a little more complex.Federal law makes clear that parents are equal partners in the IEP process. And parents retain their educational rights unless those rights are specifically taken away by the court.That means that foster parents or child welfare workers often can't fill the role of parent at an IEP meeting. If a parent who retains educational rights can’t participate, the court may appoint a legal guardian. Or, the state or school district may recommend or appoint a “surrogate parent” to fill that role.To help coordinate the IEP process for foster kids, the U.S. Department of Education (ED) suggests that states have a point of contact (POC) to work with child welfare agencies. The POC works to make sure all the necessary parties are involved in making educational decisions about children in foster care. (Explore a PDF that explains how POC works in more detail.)Schools can’t delay services for “highly mobile” studentsFor most kids, a switch in schools happens occasionally, due to a family move or other reasons. But some kids switch schools more frequently. ED refers to these students as “highly mobile.” This may include students in military families, children in foster care, and migrant children, as well as families experiencing homelessness.ED has instructed schools to make sure that “highly mobile” students receive FAPE without delay. (See a PDF of the ED’s guidance on “highly mobile” students.) If your family moves frequently, contact your child’s new school as soon as you know you’re moving, to get the right services in place.Whatever the reason for a switch in schools, you and your child have the same rights under special education law no matter which public school your child attends. Explore and understand these rights. Download a school introduction letter for your child to use. And read about different school options for kids with learning and thinking differences.
The Opportunity GapTeacher shortages, special education, and kids of color
Schools are facing a huge shortage of special education teachers. What’s the impact on special education students and kids of color? Schools around the country are facing a huge shortage of special education teachers and other staff. How is the teacher shortage impacting kids with disabilities or learning and thinking differences? What about kids who are marginalized? Co-host Marissa Wallace starts the episode with a story about how her husband, a Black man, was offered a special education teaching job even though he’s in the field of finance. This kicks off a discussion with co-host Julian Saavedra about why there’s a teacher shortage — and its impact. Julian and Marissa share their experiences as parents and teachers, and they react to news stories from around the country. They also share tips for families on what to do when schools say they can’t deliver services because of staff shortages.Related resources10 smart responses when a school cuts or denies services7 tips to improve your relationship with your child’s teacherPodcast: Are IEPs different in wealthy schools?Episode transcriptJulian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us.Welcome back to "The Opportunity Gap." I'm here with my co-host, Marissa, and our producer, Andrew. Marissa, how are you?Marissa: I'm good, Julian, you know, but I do have a crazy story to tell you. This is a wild story. So today, while I was working with one of my students, I, like, overhear this conversation. Romario is on the phone. Romario is my husband. And, um, so he's on the phone, having this conversation, sounds all jazzed. He's saying, you know, "Oh, well, if I had a choice, like, I'd either choose Washington, DC, or New York City." And I'm like, what is this? It sounded kind of job-related. So he gets off the phone. He says, "Listen, I just got this, like, great offer." And I'm like, oh, tell me more.Now, mind you, my husband is in school for finance. He is, you know, someone who prior to finance was into engineering. So that's, like, his area of expertise. So he was like, "Yeah, this company called, and they wanted to know if I would be interested in taking a special education teaching position and I could relocate." Right? "And they'd give me a sign-on bonus."And I'm like, oh, we're that desperate? We are that desperate in the United States right now, that we are just looking at people's LinkedIn and being like, "Oh, hey, even though nothing on your LinkedIn page screams educator, you're not certified, but let me call you and offer you the red carpet because that is how much we are in need of teachers." Isn't that wild? And he was ready to go for it.Julian: No, no shade to my brother, my good brother Romario, no shade to him, but he's not qualified to be a special education teacher at all.Marissa: Not at all. Even maybe, like, a math teacher, science, but, like, they went right in for a special education teacher.Julian: I'm just floored that that came out of nowhere.Marissa: Now I'm, like, curious. I'm like, what is on his LinkedIn site? Like, I know he has a picture, so I'm like, are they, like, profiling? They're like, "Oh, a Black male, let me call this guy and offer him a job." Or was there something in, like, what was it that made this company think that they were going to get him to be a special education teacher, of all things?Julian: So, Marissa, that is actually a really good introduction into what we're talking about today, specifically how the teacher shortage is impacting the entire nation.Marissa: Absolutely.Julian: Andrew did some research regarding the teacher shortage. Andrew, do you want to tell us a little bit about what your findings were?Andrew: Yeah, here's a really interesting article from ABC News. This is from the start of the 2021–2022 school year. The Massachusetts governor deployed the National Guard to be bus drivers to take kids to school.Julian: What?!Andrew: Here's another article, from the "New York Times." Title is "Substitute Teachers Never Got Much Respect, but Now They Are in Demand." So because of these staff shortages, some schools are canceling classes. Others are basically hiring whatever substitute teachers they can find. In the article, so I'm looking at it now, they're talking about Oregon, which passed some law or executive order basically saying that you could bypass the regular certification to become a substitute teacher.Julian: I don't know if y'all are familiar with the phrase "glow up," but talk about a glow up for our substitutes. They went from the bottom to now they are highly in demand.Marissa: The hard part, though, is there's not enough of them though.Julian: Is there ever enough?Marissa: Right. And that's what I'm saying. They've had such a tough time. I know, like, currently there's, um, what's happening in my son's school is that they're actually to the point where their substitute shortage is real too. So what goes on is when a teacher's out, kids get dispersed throughout the school. So a good friend of mine whose daughter is also there, her fifth-grade student has spent all last week in a third-grade classroom.Julian: Yeah. I mean, it's also coupled with the amount of teachers that are calling out because of the stress and potentially quarantining their own children. So the amount of teacher absences has definitely increased, combined with the lack of people to fill in, and you have yourself a problem. What else do we have, Andrew?Andrew: Yeah, this next one, this is the "Washington Post" article. Title is "The Principal Is Cleaning the Bathroom: Schools Reel With Staff Shortages." This is interesting in this article because I think it was the first time that I saw that they mentioned actually kids with disabilities or students with disabilities losing out on services.Julian: Yeah. I mean, I can definitely think about my own experiences over the last four months, and that we've all become jacks of all trades. You know, I have tools in my office that I have to use to fix things. Or one day we might find ourselves in the cafeteria; one day we might be cleaning. And so it's funny, but it's also really difficult, especially with our students with disabilities or getting the services they need because of staffing shortages.Marissa: All kinds of complications.Andrew: Yeah, and there are some reports about the federal government statistics on this, just to put, like, real hard numbers.Marissa: Yeah.Andrew: There are 460,000 unfilled state and local education jobs, right before this school year. That's almost three times as many as the start of last school year. Just educators, just workers in general, it just tends to happen with schools. It tends to have a bigger impact because those are the ones that parents and families see.Julian: And can you repeat that number again? Like, how many unfilled state and local education jobs are out there?Andrew: Yeah, so I looked at the government statistics on this, and they said that there were 460,000 unfilled state and local education jobs before the start of the school year — 460,000. That's half a million. It's almost three times as many as the start of the last school year.Julian: Wow. I mean, I can only speak to my own experience. In my own school, we are experiencing pretty major shortage of special education. I mean, we need to fill at least 12 positions, and that's not including the food services, the bus drivers, the climate staff, secretaries, I mean, just in general, everybody has been overworked. And we really hope that it's not going to start negatively impacting our students.Andrew, thank you so much for sharing this information. I think it's a great start-off to have our conversation.Andrew: Anytime.Julian: So, Marissa, what do you think about all this?Marissa: I definitely agree that there's a teacher shortage this year. However, I'd like to push that there's been a teacher shortage I think especially in the area of special education for, honestly, since I can remember. I know back when we first started our friendship, when we were working together, it wasn't that bad at that time. I don't remember the teacher shortage at that particular time in our school being as severe as it is now.Within the last five years and more specifically now, after being in the thick of the pandemic, especially when we think about our kids going back to being in person, I feel like that's impacted a decline for sure. Which has added, of course, to the teacher shortage.Julian: Why do you think this is happening? What are some of the reasons why the shortage is so prevalent right now?Marissa: I mean, if you look at it as a whole, I feel like there's multiple layers to this. One reason that I feel like the shortage of teachers in special education is real is because a lot of new teachers who are just coming into it, they're coming into this teaching profession at this very interesting time in our history where there's a lot more areas that are gray that we have to figure out how to best serve our students. And so even though you might've went and got your certification and did your classes and this, that, and whatever about how to support students, they might know all of that information, but putting it into practice in a virtual slash in-person world, I think has added this extra layer of stress that some very new teachers that are coming into this are leaving quick.And then you have the opposite, right? Then you have the veteran teachers who have been doing this work for 10, 15, 20 years. And have also either gotten burned out because again, it's, like, adding additional parts to their workload of having to navigate the pandemic alongside of supporting their students, writing documentation.Julian: Yeah, the burnout is definitely real. Just from what I see, regardless of where you're located, what region you might be in, it seems like the appeal to become an educator is not as strong as it might've once been in prior generations. And you're right, it's stressful, it's extremely stressful. And special education, to me, requires a very specific type of person. Like, somebody that goes above and beyond. Every building I've ever been in, our best special educators are amazing teachers, probably some of the most caring individuals in the building. I mean, I remember you and how you would advocate for your kids above everybody else.Keeping that up, it requires a lot of energy. And if you're stressed out with life in general and with the pandemic, it makes it a lot harder to want to jump into this.Marissa: I appreciate the shout-out.Julian: What about our students that are people of color? What about our students who are in our marginalized communities? What about our students that are already experiencing just systemic oppression? How does this impact them?Marissa: That's, like, a really big piece of it. And I think that our students in, especially as students where they're back in person and they're in urban areas where they're already struggling with having resources prior to the pandemic — resources weren't there before — a lot of our Black and brown students then, that are either going to get ignored, they're not going to get the services. They're going to get ignored and not get the proper education, or they're going to be pushed outside of the classroom or outside of the school because their needs aren't getting met, because there's literally no one there to meet their needs.Julian: Just thinking about today, my school right now has over 40 percent of our students within special education, and 97 percent of our students are African American. Obviously, we have a large population of folks that are fitting into multiple categories. And I can say that the lack of staffing is adversely affecting how they're able to feel success, specifically for our students of color. Do you feel like there's a shortage of special education teachers of color too?Marissa: Absolutely. That's something that has, like, probably been happening again longer than not just pandemic times. I absolutely feel like that is something that has been a constant, because even throughout my entire career, I really — and I was fortunate, right? I feel like at least, like, working in Philadelphia, I was able to be in a more diverse setting with who I was teaching alongside of. Like, I felt like most of the schools, we had a nice diversity on our team, and I'm in a virtual charter that serves the entire state of Pennsylvania.Julian: I'm the assistant principal, and I'll be honest, like, when I walk into the room and especially for our ninth graders, when it's a first experience with the school, so many of the moms that get to meet me, knowing that I'm one of the assistant principals, and I look like their sons, or I look like their uncles, or I look like their dad, or I look like their little brother, and I speak the same language. And I relate in that area. It makes such a difference. Not to say that folks cannot relate, not to say that our white teachers can't find ways to make that happen, but it does make a difference. Like the representation side of it makes a difference. And so not only are our students not having staff in general, but then we're lacking somebody that they feel like they can relate to.So I guess I feel like the lack of staffing and just the struggle and the shortage of finding quality people is probably going to have an impact for years to come. And not to be Debbie Downer, like, this is heavy, and I'm sure you've heard a lot of things that might make you think that this is an untenable situation.And in many aspects, it is really difficult. Both of us are in it right now as we speak. But, say I'm a parent — and I am a parent, by the way — but say I have a student or a child that has learning differences, and my school might not have the special education teachers that are needed. Or there might be shortages as we've been describing. What do I do? What should I be doing?Marissa: And so there's the legal way to answer that question, right? And then there's the parent way.Julian: Let's go with the parent way. Let's go with the parent way first.Marissa: The parent way to me — and as a parent, I'm already, like, pretty consistently communicating with his teacher. That to me is, like, the first line of defense, right, is your student's direct teachers. As a parent, if you are noticing any of these inconsistencies, these shortages, that your kid is not receiving what they need to receive, do attempt to go to the teacher first. And build that relationship. Trying to build that relationship with the teacher, I think is the first step, whether it's on one of the apps that some schools use to communicate, whether it's, like, taking a moment to drop your kid off or pick your kid up at the end of the day, like, having those conversations and trying to build that relationship with the teacher, I think is the first step.Julian: You and I both know the parents that are constantly in contact are the ones that we usually pay attention to. So, I mean, making it your purpose to really be intently getting to know who the teachers are, getting to know the administration, just making your name and making it known who you are in the school. Just really building that relationship starts with just picking up the phone call and asking to talk to the teachers.Marissa: Absolutely. Yes. Sending a text message. And I get it, like, I know everyone is busy. I know everyone is working. I know a lot of families have multiple children. Like, I get that there's a time limit on things you can do. However, I feel like once you start that process, that is going to cut down then on all of those other calls that you might get, because they already have this knowledge of who you are, who your kid is. And I feel like, you're right, as an educator on the other side of it, we probably did a lot more finagling for some of the students that we knew those parents, we knew what the parent was going to say or do, and we knew what they would recommend for us to do with their kid. And so that relationship would be number one.I do think, though, part of it is bigger than that too. I do think depending upon where your student's at, and some of it is outside of the control of the teacher. I think a lot of it, too, is as the parent, getting yourself educated and getting knowledge on what it is, what does it mean for your student to have a certain disability or a learning difference? What does it mean for them to get certain supports? What should those supports look like? That's where I worry often, too, is there has to be some ownership sometimes on the family to understand this on their own for their own interpretation, so they know how to best advocate for their student. Because the parents that do that well, it just lends itself to so much more conversation and action.Julian: You know, have conversations with your kids. Ask them, like, what works for you? What doesn't work for you? Tell me about your teachers. Tell me about your day. Tell me what was going well. Tell me about these different strategies the teachers use that really help you, so that when you do have conversations in a meeting or even offhand with the school, you have something to build from.And I gotta be honest, in our experience, and Marissa, you could back me up on this, part of the issues with our urban schools is that our parents sometimes don't know all of the rights they are afforded. They don't necessarily know as much about what they should be receiving. And so it's really on making sure that you're sharing that information with each other. We already have strong communities, and in our communities of color, that's one of the best parts of it is that it is a collective. We are together. Now we have to share our knowledge with each other so that we can work together collectively to demand the rights that our students are afforded.Marissa: Absolutely. Being part of the process — that's the most important piece. You have to be part of the process from beginning to end. And as we think about the teacher shortage in special education, it's real. We're not going to, like, pretend like it's not this thing that's actually happening. So it's definitely real. My thought, and especially being in the world of higher ed right now, we're already having conversations that are really optimistic about what can we change to make becoming a special educator more appealing and more accessible, because it's such a need, and we need good people in these roles. And once you're in the role, like, there's a lot of fulfillment, and there's so much you can do to see those students able to learn within their abilities with the right teachers supporting them along the way. So I do feel like there is hope to move forward. This is where we're at now. Yes, there's a shortage. We are, though, actively thinking of ways to make it so that there is no more shortage, right? Like, that's the end goal. There can't be this because at the end of the day, we don't want our students to be lost. We don't want our students not to get the support they need.Julian: So we talked about the parent way. What about the legal way? Say a school says, "Well, I'm sorry, there's a teacher shortage, so we can't really give you this service in your IEP."Marissa: Yeah, not an option, Julian, not an option. So one of the benefits of having federal government involved in IEPs in special education — and just as a reminder, an IEP is an Individualized Education Plan — is that they're mandated, and parents have that right through their procedural safeguards to know that if it's in an IEP as what we call specially designed instruction or a related service, schools can't say no. They can, of course, a school can, but however, there's consequences to that, right? This is the right of a student to have this education and to have their needs met. And so right now, what I'm seeing is a lot of schools getting creative to make sure that they are able to meet the students' needs because you have to prioritize the individualized learning for that student. And you have to find a way 'cause it's, it isn't an option, because it can turn into a lot of legal issues, honestly. And I know schools that are going through it where there is due process and mediation, and overall do know their rights. And again, like, we have to keep in mind that our students have to be first, and we it's, it's a shame, the shortage is real, and it's unfortunate. Some schools are doing better than others at finding ways to make sure that they're following the legal part and getting related services for students. I know a lot of schools are starting to do things more virtually, which is helping to address this, because that's been, like, a way where people sometimes feel more comfortable with related services. They're not going into homes, or they're not going into schools. So we're finding ways to do it, but it is not a choice. It is absolutely a legal part that protects the student and the families.Julian: So, at the end of the day, everybody deserves a high-quality education.This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you heard today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice.Go to u.org/opportunity gap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places.We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee, Cinthia Pimentel, and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
Education terms you may hear from lawyers
Kids with learning or thinking differences may have a right to services and supports at school through an IEP or a 504 plan. Since navigating this process can be tricky, you might decide to consult with a lawyer at some point. And the lawyer may use terms you’ve never heard. This mini-glossary can help you understand the legal language you’re hearing.504 plan is a blueprint or plan for how a child will have access to education at school. It typically includes accommodations, and sometimes services as well.Accommodations are changes that give people with disabilities equal access. An example of an accommodation is an audiobook. See more examples of accommodations that help kids with learning and thinking differences.Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a federal law that makes it illegal to discriminate against people with disabilities. ADA requires schools and employers to make “reasonable accommodations” so people with disabilities can fully participate at school and at work.Due process is a formal way to resolve special education disputes. This process is spelled out in the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA) is the main federal law for K–12 general education. ESSA requires annual testing for students. Under the law, states hold schools accountable for student progress within a framework provided by the federal government. Read about the difference between ESSA and No Child Left Behind, the law ESSA replaced.Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) is a federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. There are only a few circumstances in which a school can share a child’s records without a parent’s consent.Free and appropriate public education (FAPE) refers to the legal requirement that public schools provide eligible kids with disabilities the support and services they need (and in general education settings as much as possible).Independent educational evaluation (IEE) is an outside evaluation done by a professional who isn’t employed by the school district. In some cases, schools may pay for this outside evaluation.Individualized Education Program (IEP) is a plan for a child’s special education experience at school. It outlines the special education and related services (such as speech therapy or counseling) the school will provide to meet a student’s individual needs. See a chart that compares IEPs and 504 plans.Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) is a federal law that ensures that public schools serve the educational needs of eligible students with disabilities. Find out how IDEA protects you and your child.Informed consent is the legal right of parents to be informed and give consent before a school evaluates a child or provides special education.Lau v. Nichols refers to a Supreme Court decision that school districts must treat all students equally. Under this ruling, English language learners (ELLs) must get the support and resources they need. “Lau remedies” are guidelines to make sure schools follow civil rights requirements when teaching ELLs. Least restrictive environment (LRE) is part of IDEA, which states that public schools must educate kids with disabilities in a general education setting as much as possible. Read more about LRE.Local education agency (LEA) is the board of education or other authority that controls the public school.Modifications are changes in what a student is expected to learn. They may be written in a student’s IEP and can include things like a reduced number of assignments. Learn about the difference between accommodations and modifications. No Child Left Behind (NCLB) is a federal education law that no longer exists. NCLB was replaced by ESSA.Office for Civil Rights (OCR) is a branch of the U.S. Department of Education that investigates allegations of civil rights violations in schools. Parents can file a complaint with OCR about these violations. Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP) is part of the U.S. Department of Education. It oversees Parent Training and Information Centers (PTIs) that educate parents about special education.Prior written notice is a requirement that schools must inform parents before denying or making changes to a child’s services or placement.Related services are services that help a child meet education goals, but that aren’t specialized instruction. An example of a related service is speech therapy. See more examples of related services.Response to intervention (RTI) is a process in which schools provide different levels of intervention for struggling students.Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act is a federal civil rights law that bars discrimination against students with disabilities in schools. This law provides for 504 plans for students with disabilities.Special education refers to instruction specially designed to meet the unique needs of kids with disabilities. Get more details on special education.Special education advocate is someone who guides parents through the special education process. The advocate can’t give legal advice or represent families in lawsuits. See a chart that shows the difference between an advocate and an attorney.State education agency (SEA) is the agency that supervises public schools in each state.“Stay put” rights are legal protections in special education law. A school can’t change your child’s services or placement until it goes through the proper dispute resolution process. Learn more about “stay put” rights.It’s valuable to understand terms like these when speaking to a lawyer. You may also want to check out which laws do what. Studying up on terms educators use could also be a big help when it comes to advocating for your child, along with IEP terms.
The Opportunity GapA mom of 8 with limited resources on advocating for her son with ADHD
This Philadelphia mom of eight dedicated herself to advocating for her son with ADHD — and felt judged in the process. Hear her story and advice. Melissa is a single mom from Philadelphia who faced many challenges while raising her son Abdullah, who has ADHD and learning differences. A second-generation Puerto Rican and a high school graduate, Melissa faced stigma, limited resources, and a knowledge barrier. But she dedicated herself to making sure her son could learn and self-advocate — all while juggling seven other kids. This week, Julian Saavedra and Marissa Wallace welcome Melissa, who they’ve been friends with ever since they taught her son. Listen in to hear how this mom beat the odds by being her son’s best advocate. Hear the advice she has for parents like herself. And find out what Abdullah is up to now. Related resources8 steps to advocating for your child at schoolHow to find more support when you have kids who learn and think differentlyPerspectives: How to make sure families of color are heard by the schoolEpisode transcript Julian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us.Marissa: Hello and welcome, everyone. It is so wonderful to be here tonight because this evening we have the honor and the privilege to introduce and welcome to the show one of our very dear old friends from our previous lives back at good old KIPP West Charter School is where Julian and I first met and where we met this amazing parent, Melissa, thank you so much for being here.Melissa is one of a kind. She is a true family member. And we wanted to take some time to talk with her specifically, because not only is she a great parent to eight — get that, eight — amazing kids, but she also is someone who was super supportive within our school. And she was able to really help us to grow as educators when we got to work and have the privilege to work with her son Abdullah. We know he has accomplished so many great things as an adult and throughout that educational experience. He does have a lending and thinking difference, and we really were able to learn from him and from you, Melissa. So thank you so much. We're just so excited for you to be here. So welcome. Welcome to our podcast.Melissa: Thank you so much for having me. It's my pleasure and honor to be here.Julian: Thank you so much for joining us. Like Marissa said, it's just exciting when we get to talk about somebody that we know very intimately, somebody that we know on both sides of the equation with the student side and the parent's side. And it's just an honor for us to elevate somebody like yourself. So that being said, tell us about yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what brings you on our show.Melissa: I'm a single mom of eight kids. I'm a high school graduate. And right now, I am living an amazing career as an office production studio manager and an artist. I'm Puerto Rican, second generation over here. And my children also are second generation West Indian. Their father's from Barbados and international because we just like love everyone's culture. So we just adapted to that and brought that into our own. And I raised my children in an Orthodox Islamic way.Julian: Let's speak specifically about your children. As we said earlier, both Marissa and I were fortunate enough to teach multiple members of your family. But the first one that we taught was Abdullah. We know specifically Abdullah has ADHD. And I remember, as his social studies teacher, how inquisitive he was and how confident he was in his ability.And you know, somebody who had come to the table with learning and thinking differences, but also were confident. In his case, he had a quiet confidence about, and I remember how much it impacted my own teaching because it made me want to bring my A game every day. And it made me want to make sure that I was producing like high-quality lessons and making sure that what I was putting in front of him was going to be worthy of his intelligence. So that's what I saw, right? And this is going back years and years and years, but I'd love for you to tell our listeners just more about him. Tell us more about Abdullah.Melissa: Abdullah made me who I was as a mother and a parent. I was really challenged to defy all stigmas that were placed on me as being a young, Hispanic mother with a kid who didn't go to college or having a kid with physical delays, and then later having learning differences, he really just challenged me every day, like, to just be my best. Put everything aside that was like placed on me and really just to like learn, pick up a book and ask questions.He was very quiet about it. So the best word to describe him would be very stoic. And that is really who he is. He's always known that things are just different for him. Like he sees things differently. He holds things differently. He couldn't button his pants like his friends, or he couldn't run down the street like his friends, or ride the bike as quickly, but he always challenged himself. He never was like, I can't do this.Marissa: And that's such a beautiful picture of Abdullah. And as we are continuing to talk about Abdullah, tell me more about like, when and how you noticed, or how did you determine that he had learning and thinking differences?Melissa: So when Abdullah was 3 days, 3 days old, they told me that he had a hole in his heart. So at 7 days old, he had to have open-heart surgery. So at that point, I always just kept like an extra eye on him, his development, how he was sleeping, how he was breathing, what he was eating, how he was moving.So when he was 6 months and he wasn't sitting — up a 6-month-old baby should be sitting up or really trying to sit up. I had just had a conversation with his pediatrician. And so that was like really vital for me, for him to have a pediatrician that I was like, heard my concerns and listened. So at that moment, they made the reference to had him evaluated. And we did find out that at that moment, he did have some physical disabilities and differences that made it hard for him to sit up. And we then provided physical therapy for him at that moment.Marissa: And that's so important. That is something we've talked about on this show before too, is just the importance of that early intervention. And you being so observant and so aware definitely helped throughout the process for the acceptance for you as the family, and then Abdullah as he was navigating school. You know, after you got the information and kind of sifted through it yourself, how did you then tell Abdullah about his learning and thinking differences? How did you explain to him what was going on?Melissa: I don't think it was really until his older adolescent years, probably even like his middle school years when he came to KIPP and I invited him to his first IEP meeting. I had the conversation with him about how he learns and speaking up about what he needs and what these meetings were about and that he had a voice in his education. And that's why he was there, so that he could know one day that he had to advocate for himself and take over for his own education, along with the support of his family and like the staff at the school.Marissa: Thank you for sharing about Abdullah and for sharing about just that experience of you acknowledging and understanding his learning and thinking differences, and then sharing that with him. And him being part of those meetings was such a crucial part for sure, in his experience. What was the response then from his siblings and from the rest of the family? How did they navigate that as well?Melissa: I know the conversation was always present with them before it was present with Abdullah. You don't know like the right words and you don't know what to say to your child that has like a learning difference. I was always afraid to say something that would discourage him. So I would just always give him like encouraging words. But when it came to his family, it was like they missed out on a lot of weekends. They sat at home when I had to drive an hour away to get Abdullah to therapy or to get what he needed.So we had to talk to them about that, about what he needed. They felt like what they were getting, like the short end of the stick, he was getting a chance to go to his cool therapy places that have cool gadgets. And they were bright and colorful when he got to do all these fun things and they got to sit home.So we had the conversation about that, that he really needed that support. And then we also had to have the conversation as well when it came to playing, because sometimes they would think that he was trying to get away with things or not doing something, or he couldn't play the game as well as the other kids 'cause his comprehension wasn't there on understanding a game. So that was one we maybe had to make some modifications to the game or do you know, just talk to the kids about just having some understanding and compassion for him.Julian: That's really positive that that's the experience he had within his own family in the Black and brown community. There is sometimes a stigma around the idea of learning and thinking differences and receiving special education services. So you and I come from very similar timeframe of when we were in school and the experiences we had in our own school experience. What was the experience for you all when it came to some of those stigmas coming up and how did y'all deal with?Melissa: So for me, growing up, the first experience that I had, that was a huge — just a teacher for me, right? — was my own oldest brother. He was labeled a learning disability, was placed in like the basement class. So I saw how the school system treated him. And I also saw how successful he was when he graduated from high school.And I didn't want that for my kid. I was like, I didn't want him to be placed in the basement or to just hurry up and be passed through school, just to get a diploma. And just to say that the school district did their thing. I wanted my son to get an education. I believed that he could go to college and I believed that he had the right to learning just like every other person in this world, no matter which way we learn.Julian: Gotcha. So did you experience any pushback to that?Melissa: The major challenge and pushback was not understanding the language, right? Feeling like I was this uneducated person with the high school diploma, from the Badlands that didn't know how to navigate an IEP. And I made it known that I knew what these things were, but there was still some things about the lingo that I didn't understand.So that's where I felt the problem came in. Not fully knowing all of my rights that were there and weren't exercised. And not to put any teacher at fault, but you guys are just doing your job. And if the parents don't ask and we don't raise our concerns, how are you to know that those are our concerns and really bring it up when you are placed with 30 students to one teacher and the ratio is just really off there to begin with.Marissa: I know we have talked before and I know Abdullah had started education homeschooling. So that was also probably part of your story and part of Abdullah's story is then going from that homeschooling environment to making the transition to the charter school. And so I'm curious, and you just unpacked and shared a lot about kind of your learning curve and the things that you learned about the process and about the, so what led you to make the decision to have him come into the charter school? And how do you feel that he adjusted to that decision?Melissa: OK. So there was a moment where we were homeschooling and I could not get Abdullah past the third-grade math curriculum. I did not know what to do. Like I was just not equipped and I needed help. And there were days where Abdullah got everything he needed. He got caught up on his work. And then my three daughters just sat there, like looking and playing with their LEGOs and their dolls. And it's probably why they're engineers now. 'Cause they had like all this free time to play, but like LEGOs, they didn't get what they needed. And then the other day. They got what they needed and Abdullah didn't what he needed.And he needed continuous support every day, like extended year-round learning and not just like the normal learning, like in a classroom. Just learning every way we want. And it was just really frustrating. And I started to feel like a failure as a parent. And, um, I started to hate homeschooling. And I didn't want it to be like that. I didn't want, I didn't, I didn't like that feeling. So I sought out the best help that I could. I did my research on the internet. I asked around to some families to ask what they were doing.Marissa: Do you feel, or, you know, I know it was many, many years ago, but how do you feel that Abdullah adjusted to, to KIPP, in to that environment?Melissa: So it was just like, they all around family support and he went to school with his sister. So that really mattered. And me being able to come to the school and sit in the back of the classroom if I needed to, or just volunteer and show my face in the hallway, that really allowed him to adjust. And he didn't feel different because of his skin color. And he wasn't teased because of his learning difference.Julian: Did you go through an evaluation process to get Abdullah special education services?Melissa: It was exciting. It was scary, and I'm glad I did it. It was like the roadmap to life for me for three years. So it was one of the best things that I did, and I was able to be there and be like an interactive part of his education and his IEP.Like they taught me what they were teaching him in school. They showed me the things so that I was able to do these things at home with him and not just play with him, bring learning into play and everything around us. So it was really cool part, but it was scary. Then, like I spoke to before, I didn't know how to ask the right questions.Julian: How did you go about just getting the information, like even during this evaluation process or as you went further along with Abdullah, how did you go about educating yourself?Melissa: Sharing my concerns with other parents around me and asking the pediatrician questions. Asking his physical therapist, his occupational therapist, and his speech therapist questions and a psychologist, and really telling them what my vision was for my kid.Like I described who I saw Abdullah being when he was a grown man, when I wasn't here for him and who I wanted him to be and who he needed to be for himself when no one was there. And they recommended books to me, and it taught us about differences on what side of the brains we use to learn and do things. So really like reading and just asking questions from all of people that were there at my disposal, in my home for like an hour two days a week.Julian: And I mean, that's parenting, right? All of us are parents on this call and we all are in this mode where we're constantly educating ourselves about how to be the best parents we can be. So I love that you said you did a lot of reading. Thinking about that and helping Abdullah navigate his school experience, what are some of the learning strategies that you saw really worked for him? We know specifically, Abdullah has ADHD. What are some things that really worked for him?Melissa: I have learned through many rounds of trial and error and just really a lot of trying things out is that he's like a multisensory learner. He needs to have his directions broken down to him, repeated it to him several times. And he's able to say that now he's able to say, "Can you repeat that?" And he's learned how to repeat the directions that were told to him. He knows. Now that's a skill that helps him remember what he needs to do.Marissa: I know for sure, both Julian and I, in our time working with him, we saw him thrive in many different environments, both academically and functionally and personally.Julian: Yeah. I remember, you know, I taught him in eighth grade and I remember that the quiet confidence and the schoolwork definitely came out, but socialization is also incredibly important during middle school. And as one of the general education classrooms that had everybody push in, we had a mixture of abilities in the classroom.And so there are some times when the teacher has to really manage the social interactions between all the students in the room. And I just remember that he was one of the coolest kids in my class. Like the boys would really dig him and it wasn't like a fake "Hey, I'm trying to be nice" or anything. It was like they really, they vibed with him.And I remember during, we were having some debate about something and I did a lot of debates in my class. And I remember they, they were on either side and Abdullah, like had the last point in the debate and it was like the mic drop. And all the boys were like, "Oh, he said that." And they gave him a high fives and whatnot. And he might not even remember this, but I just remember the smile on his face.Marissa: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned this multiple times throughout our conversation today, about the importance of support systems. Have you kind of created those systems for both yourself, right, as a parent and for Abdullah? What are some things you've done to create those systems in your lives?Melissa: Really having a support of family around us. Like my mom was a vital part into getting things done, getting me to appointments. And Grandmom who was just, she was like always another person that I felt that I had to prove something to. She was like an important part of that support system as well, because it was like, I wanted to live up to her standards and yeah, I have a kid with learning differences and yeah, have a kid who's physically disabled, but he's going to do anything that he wants to do and puts his mind to. So that was like really important for me building that, that family support, the doctors around me. And most importantly, it was like the school just really being open with them.And I'm just so blessed that I happened to choose KIPP because when I put my kids in school, they were two different ages. So I had two other kids that weren't old enough to get into KIPP because they didn't have the elementary school yet. And we got that family support. That was just really important and vital to me like building that support. And those were like the major support systems, was family, your health care system, your doctors — having the right pediatrician — and the school.Marissa: The chosen family. And we definitely considered your family. And there's continued like, like Julian said, this is decades later, and we are still very thankful and very blessed to have worked with your family and Abdullah.Julian: And I think people listening need to hear that, that there's multiple areas of support. And sometimes we don't even realize that we have that support until we need something. And that's important to recognize too. So Abdullah, 24 years old now, 24 years old grown man.Melissa: Yes. We just celebrated his birthday. I embarrassed him at my art studio. An amazing band performed. I'm going to give them a shout-out, the name is Dockle Banger, um, but they performed on stage and I got on stage with a birthday cake and we all sang happy birthday to him and it was amazing and we just showered him with love.Julian: So you want to tell us what he's up to? Where is he at in life right now?Melissa: Right now, he just came home from a two-week orientation at a technical school in Western Pennsylvania that is designed for young adults with learning differences, that supports adults with on any level that they need. They even have like driving classes. So I'm like what? This gets me off the hook when teaching them how to drive.Yeah, my kid is going to come home with a trade skill and be able to be confident and knowing how to balance his checkbook on his own and drive? Like what? So that's what he's doing. And he got a chance to explore.Marissa: All good things there. Thank you for sharing. And clearly Abdullah has really, really evolved. Like he really has become his own individual with all of the strengths that we saw in middle school. And now he's taking that strength and going, oh gosh, that's so exciting. I cannot wait to hear the rest of the story because this is just the beginning.Julian: This podcast is specifically for families that might just be starting on finding out that their student or their child has learning and thinking differences. And they don't know. They have that stigma maybe, or they might just be really worried because they're, they don't have the knowledge that you have. What advice would you have to somebody that is just starting out their journey?Melissa: There's always that feeling in your heart that tells you hey, something is off here. So ask the question. Take notes. Do your research. Those are like some of the most important pieces of advice that I can give. And don't take no for an answer. Like don't take no, that's not possible. No, it's too late in the school year to do it. No, that can't be done. Explain to me why it can't be so you can understand. And if it can't be done this way, then find another way to get it done. Because there is nothing that is impossible. And just really like believe in yourself because these babies are a gift to us. And we wouldn't — we're their number one advocate for a reason. So just trust in that and know that you can really do it. And you have the support out there. The support is there for you. Just ask.Julian: Mic drop, just like your son. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.You've been listening to "The Opportunity Gap" from the Understood Podcast Network. And this is our last episode of the season. We're going to see you after summer break. If you have any topics and I mean, anything that you want us to talk about for Season 2, please email us, hit us up. We want to get Season 2 poppin'. So please, reach out at opportunitygap@understood.org.Marissa: Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Cin Pim. Briana Berry is our production director. Andrew Lee is our editorial lead. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
What is a 504 plan?
A 504 plan is a blueprint for how the school will support a student with a disability and remove barriers to learning. The goal is to give the student equal access at school.What is a 504 plan?504 plans are formal plans that schools develop to give kids with disabilities the support they need. That covers any condition that limits daily activities in a major way. These plans prevent discrimination. And they protect the rights of kids with disabilities in school. They’re covered under Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. This is a civil rights law.504 plans aren’t part of special education. So, they’re different from IEPs. 504 plans and IEPs are covered by different laws and work in different ways. But the end goal is the same: to help students thrive in school. (Learn more about the difference between IEPs and 504 plans.) One way 504 plans do that is through accommodations. For example, they might give extended time on tests or the ability to leave the classroom for short breaks. It’s less common, but some may also provide services like speech-language therapy or study skills classes.Schools typically create written 504 plans. But they’re not required to. There are no set rules for what a 504 plan should look like, or what it should include. The only things schools have to put in writing are their policies on 504 plans.Dive DeeperGet tips on what goes into a good 504 plan.See examples of common classroom accommodations for kids. Read about surprising accommodations students have gotten.What’s in a 504 plan504 plans often include accommodations. These can include:Changes to the environment (like taking tests in a quiet space)Changes to instruction (like checking in frequently on key concepts)Changes to how curriculum is presented (like getting outlines of lessons)Accommodations don’t change what kids learn, just how they learn it. The goal is to remove barriers and give kids access to learning.Accommodations address specific challenges. A child with ADHD who’s easily distracted might get a seat at the front of the class. A child with dyslexia might be allowed to use text-to-speech technology. And a student with slow processing speed might get extra time on tests.Some kids may get services to help build skills. One example is occupational therapy. Some might get supports for social and emotional challenges.While it’s rare, 504 plans can provide modifications. Unlike accommodations, modifications do change what a student is taught or is expected to learn. Students might get fewer homework assignments, for instance. Or they may be graded in a different way than their classmates.Dive DeeperLearn about the difference between accommodations and modifications.Read about behavior intervention plans that can be part of 504 plans.Find out if a 504 plan can include a transition plan to prepare kids for adulthood.How to get a 504 planThe process for getting a 504 plan is different, and simpler, than the process for getting an IEP. But it varies from school district to school districtKids don’t need to get a full evaluation to get a 504 plan. But many do. In fact, schools often suggest a 504 plan if a child doesn’t qualify for special education but needs support.With 504 plans, schools look at information about a student from a few different sources. One source might be a medical diagnosis. Schools might also look at the student’s grades, test scores, and teacher recommendations.Families or schools can request a 504 plan through the school district’s 504 coordinator. This person may also be the IEP coordinator. (Ask the principal if you’re not sure who to contact.) The request must be in writing. The school will then hold a meeting to decide if the child qualifies and what supports are appropriate.Dive DeeperRead more about whether evaluations for IEPs and 504 plans are different.Learn the steps for getting a 504 plan for a child.Find out what happens if the school wants to move a child from an IEP to a 504 plan.Legal rights under 504 plans504 plans are covered by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. Under this civil rights law, students have the right to a free appropriate public education (FAPE). And that’s the whole point of 504 plans: to give students access to the same education their peers are getting. (FAPE is also guaranteed under the special education law IDEA.)Parents and guardians have fewer rights and safeguards in the 504 process than in the IEP process, though. For instance, schools don’t need to invite them to participate in creating the plan or to go to 504 meetings. (Most schools do this anyway.)But families have the right to be notified when their child is evaluated or identified with a disability. They also have the right to see all of their child’s records. And if they have a dispute about the 504 process, they have the right to complain.The 504 process has fewer protections than the special education process. But families can still play an important role by staying involved and making sure kids with disabilities get the same education as kids who don’t.For families: Explore our guide to 504 plans and your child.For educators: Check out our 504 plan guide for teachers.
In ItWhat if the teacher has learning differences, too?
Teacher Kara Ball shares what school was like for her as a student with dyslexia and dyscalculia, and how that experience shapes her work today.We all know that an amazing teacher can have a huge impact on our kids. But is that impact even greater when that teacher learns and thinks differently, too?In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra talk with Kara Ball, a teacher who’s “in it.” Kara shares what school was like for her as a student with dyslexia and dyscalculia, and how her interactions with teachers shaped her experience as a student. Listen in as we learn more about how Kara’s learning differences impact why and how she teaches — and especially how she engages with her students.Related resourcesWhat is dyslexia?What is dyscalculia? Understanding IEPsEpisode transcriptAmanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org. And I'm also a parent to kids who learn differently. And this is "In It." "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On the show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We're going to offer perspective advice, stories for, from, and by people who have challenges with reading, focus, and other learning differences. And I am so excited to be joined by my co-host, Gretchen Vierstra. Gretchen, want to introduce yourself?Gretchen: Sure. Hi everyone. I'm Gretchen, and I work at Understood with Amanda as an editor, and I'm a former classroom teacher. And gosh, when I was teaching, I wish I had known everything I know now from Understood. I'm also a mom of two, and Amanda and I talk about our kids all the time. So I'm happy to be doing this podcast with you, Amanda. Amanda: I am so excited you're doing this with me, Gretchen. And I'm really excited about this first episode of the season.Gretchen: Amanda and I have been thinking a lot about what a big transition this is right now for so many kids and parents heading back to school — like a real physical building — after a year or more of being remote.Amanda: I mean, on the one hand, let's be real. Many of us are so excited to get our kids out of the house. But on the other hand, over the past months, we may have learned things we didn't know about our kids as students, and may be a little worried that our kids' teachers aren't going to get them.Gretchen: That's why I wanted to talk to Kara Ball. Kara is an elementary school teacher in Maryland. She's a science and stem education specialist. And in 2018, she was a National Teacher of the Year finalist.Amanda: We wanted to talk to Kara not only because she's a great teacher, but also because she's someone who learns and thinks differently. She has both dyslexia and dyscalculia, which can make number-related tasks difficult. And she brings that perspective into the classroom in such a beautiful way. Gretchen: We started by asking her why she wanted to become a teacher.Kara: Yeah. So I am one of the few people that has always known that they've wanted to be a teacher. The first recollection I have of that is in the basement of my childhood home, my grandmother, who was a teacher, I gave me one of those classroom-in-a-kit boxes, where it would come with the chalkboard and the stickers and a red pen — basically everything you needed to be a teacher.And I would spend every summer in the basement of my childhood home, hoarding all of the handouts and worksheets that my teachers would give us to use in my classroom where my students — a class of three: my baby sister, baby brother, and my father who was by far, the most challenging student I've ever had as a teacher — would learn all about the things I learned in school. And I absolutely loved that classroom, but had a very difficult time being a student in the classrooms in the schools I attended. I wasn't diagnosed until third grade with dyslexia, and I made it all the way to sixth grade before I was identified as having dyscalculia. So reading was really challenging. Math was really challenging. School as a whole just seemed impossible. And when I was growing up, special education services were very much something you did in the, like, the classroom in the back of the building, out of sight, out of mind. And my dad who was also dyslexic, did not want me to experience that type of education.And I am lucky enough to have a grandmother who was a teacher, a dad who also identified like myself as someone being dyslexic, who advocated on my behalf to be able to have an inclusion model of education in which I received the services in the classroom, but were pulled out to be able to get the supports that I needed, which was kind of unheard of at the time. I mean, this was the late eighties, early nineties that I was in school. But even with those advocates, it didn't change that I went through the day to day, the school day, trying to — I remember choral reading where you would get a book and you would have to like read out loud of a certain passage. I would spend my entire like period not listening or comprehending everything else that was being read, trying to figure out how to read my little paragraph before they got to me, because I knew that I was going to stumble. I was going to make a mistake. And it was so stress-inducing that I would, I was the kid that asked for a bathroom pass. Anytime we had to read anything, I lied. I was like, I gotta go. Like I just had to get out, because I didn't want anybody to know how difficult it was for me just to keep up.Gretchen: First of all, that story is incredible. Going all the way back to when you were in the basement with that little red kit — I know that red kit, my kids play with that red kit, I think. At least they used to, not anymore. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got diagnosed? And when that happened how that felt for you?Kara: Yeah. So it was Miss Liddy. I have photographic memory, so I pretty much was able to memorize all of the books that we had in our classroom library. So no one caught it, up until third grade, that I couldn't read. My parents read to me. We had books at home. We went to the public library. It was just that it was twice as hard for me to learn how to read, to hold on to words.And she was the first teacher that started doing those small guided reading groups with me, and bringing in books that I didn't have access to in the classroom library that I couldn't listen to a peer read to me and then memorize it before I was assessed on it.Gretchen: So your cover was blown, right? Kara: Exactly. My cover was blown and she was like, "Hey, this might be why, you know, her writing and her print. And this might be why she inverses, you know, her speech sometimes." Like she knew. Amanda: Those moments where a teacher intervenes are so important. And it takes someone like Miss Liddy, who's really paying attention, who's picking up cues and not making assumptions about why a student is or isn't performing well. You know, and it reminds me of when Benjamin, my son, had a chance to talk to Kara about this on a webinar they did. He talked to her about his fourth-grade teacher, Mr. Sloteman, who realized that Benjamin actually paid attention better when he was doodling at the same time as listening. And then what Benjamin thought was so cool is that Mr. Sloteman made sure all the other teachers knew too, so that they could get a better understanding of Benjamin.Gretchen: I love hearing stories like that. I love it when a teacher really notices something about a student and pivots and makes that difference. And in fact, that happened for Kara a lot. She had some great teachers who really impacted her learning in a positive way. But there were also some cases where she had some negative interactions.Kara: For most of my, you know, K through 12 years, I felt like I was the dumbest person ever. As bad as that word is, that was the word that I would have chose because it's what I heard. It's what people said to me or about me, even teachers who, you know, thought I couldn't hear what they were saying because they were, you know, two feet that way, would talk about me in terms of all the things that I couldn't do rather than what I could do.When I hit ninth grade, I encountered a science teacher who would ultimately be the reason I became a STEM education teacher. And Mr. Dalton was somebody who, for whatever reason, looked at me as a less than C average student with an IEP and said, let's give her a shot. And he enrolled me in my first ever honors science class.And I still talk to Mr. Dalton today. He was the second person I told when I was named State Teacher of the Year. Because up until that moment in time, I thought that I wasn't a good student. And it was really interesting because it high school, I managed to have this amazing experience with Mr. Dalton, who got me into science, while simultaneously had my 10th-grade math teacher tell me in front of the class that I was stupid and never going to amount to anything. It still hurts my heart today when I think of how I felt in that moment. I left the class. I was never a rule breaker. I never walked out. I walked out of that classroom. But I walked out of that classroom and I walked to Mr. Dalton's classroom, because I had a safe space. I had a teacher who knew of me beyond what I showed on paper. And if I didn't have the Mr. Dalton, if I didn't have my grandma, if I didn't have my parents, that could have been the day I dropped out.I was a 10th-grade student that didn't have great grades, didn't think I was going to go to college, and had this basement dream of becoming a teacher. But everybody else but one person was saying it wasn't possible. And I didn't. I didn't drop out.Gretchen: Kara, when you were diagnosed then, did that change your perspective on learning? Kara: So it didn't. Like I knew the label. I never really saw the IEP paperwork as a child. I wasn't really in those meetings. I just kind of either had a calculator or didn't have a calculator. I either got to go in a private room or didn't go in a private room.And that's one of the things I work with my students on: understanding why they have these resources and how to be an advocate for themselves. Because a lot of people aren't going to just do it for you. You really have to know how to do it for yourself. And it's that conversation that shifted me to being more willing to talk about it. Because one of the biggest problems I have is that I know my students that have IEPs. I know my students have learning and thinking differences. But I don't hear about them as adults. They don't disappear. Like I'm not magically not dyslexic because I'm 19 and aged out of public school. What happens to you when you're an adult, and being able to show that you can have an IEP, you can be a successful, accomplished adult, you can go to college, is something that's not talked about. And I'm honest with my students, especially my older ones that, you know, it's not always going to go over well. Some conversations are going to have pushback. Like I've had employers where I've had to be like, "don't make me call a lawyer in" type of conversation. Like "I am entitled. I know my rights." But it's taken years of practice to get to that point, to stand up and be able to be an advocate for myself. Cause like, I don't have my parents in the corner. I mean, I could, I could call my mom at any moment and she'd be like, "I'm coming. Let me get the binder." I got years of documentation. But, like, I needed to be able to do that on my own. And it's because of the support systems that I have. And I'm hoping that I'm doing that for my students now.Gretchen: Speaking of families and parents — which by the way, I want to meet your mother with the binder, that sounds amazing — I'm wondering what advice do you have for families who are, you know, they're coming across this with their child for the first time. How can they talk to their teachers? How can they talk to their own child about this? Kara: So my advice to parents always usually starts with educating themselves. That's the first thing, is know your rights. I would love to say that all school systems are gonna follow the law, but that's not always the case. So it really needs to be on them to know their rights and what they're entitled to. And you get the little document at your first initial IEP meeting. Hold on to that. Read it. Do the research.Amanda: Then go to Understood to look at it because it's broken down better at Understood. The document that they give you is totally overwhelming.Kara: It is like you're in law school and are supposed to understand all of this.Amanda: Totally inadvertent plug there. It was just a matter of me thinking like what that document looks like and thinking how overwhelming it is to me. I have a degree in education. I'm a trained special education advocate. And I'm still panicking when they hand me that piece of paper.Kara: And then I would always say to approach any conversation you had with your child through the lens of empathy and compassion. Because you might not understand. Like now there are lots of groups on the internet you could connect with, find other people who might be having similar experiences. It's nice to be able to have a platform where you can share your frustrations, but at the same time, get help and support and something that is unique to you and your family.Gretchen: I'm just curious: Why STEM education? Because you know, for me, for example, growing up in school, math was not my strong suit or science, so I became an English teacher. So what drove you to STEM?Kara: I have always been that curious kid. I want to know everything about everything. And if I don't know, I need to look it up right away. My dad has a degree in biology, and when he saw the things that I was having a hard time with, rather than, you know, telling me to come and sit down and let's work through this textbook, we went out and we did it. So when I didn't understand geometry, we built a two-story treehouse. When I wasn't understanding force and motion, we went out and we made model rockets. We made pinewood derby cars. I was the first female participant in my brother’s pinewood derby for the Boy Scouts troop, and I won. Gretchen: Nice.Kara: But I do a fifth-grade pinewood derby unit with my students. I do a fourth-grade model rocket unit with my students. We design bridges. We do computer science. We do robotics. It's living through the learning as the thing that I really liked. And I also valued and appreciated that failure was celebrated and recognized as a natural part of the learning process, where in other practices and academic areas, with the exception of writing, we don't see that. In writing, you go through edits and drafts. And STEM, you go through iterations and revisions. But in math, you just have to fix it.Gretchen: Yeah. I hear what you're saying, right? The engineering, like the design engineering process, lends itself to this inquisitive trying out things, seeing if there's a new angle to do it. Not always having to stick to the same way of doing something and learning from mistakes. Kara: Yeah. The resiliency and perseverance that you have to learn through STEM education is something that I have always found my students who learn and think differently are better at than my students who have things that come pretty naturally and easy to them. They have the ability and the willingness to persist and to struggle and to productively struggle through things more so than some of their other peers. And all of a sudden, things that would seem so negative become a positive. They're like, oh yeah, I can do this. Like, let's go, let's try it again, try it again, try it again.Gretchen: You know, Kara made a really important point back there about how sometimes we forget that kids with learning differences grow up to be adults with learning differences. Right?Amanda: They don't just disappear. Although hopefully we help those kids develop the skills they need, so they know how to navigate those differences when they grow up.Gretchen: Kara told us a great story about what it's like being a grownup with dyslexia and dyscalculia.Kara: I had a really unique interaction a couple of years ago at a yard sale, which was a fully teachable moment. But I think one of the hard things is that my learning and thinking differences aren't visible to many people and they make a lot of assumptions, even as an adult.I was at a yard sale when somebody was buying something from my mom's table, and I was making change for them. But I used my calculator because I wanted to make sure that I gave the right amount back. And they just passively said, oh, you know, they don't teach math to these kids everyday. First off, I was older than they were. Second off, I was like, first, let me tell you a little bit about myself. So I have dyscalculia. I can't hold on to numbers or digits. I can't make change in my head. I still use my fingers to count if I don't have a piece of paper to solve it out. I have to put this in there because I just can't do it. It's not that I don't understand the sequence, the steps, the process, or the actual, like, you know, how to do the math problem. I just physically can't hold on to digits in my head. And they were actually very receptive to that conversation. They had never heard about that, and they had never taken it into consideration. But that is something I never would have done as a child growing up. I never talked to people publicly about it unless I had to in order to get ADA accommodations. If I had to, because I was going to enroll into a class and I needed my professor to know, but it was a private, behind closed doors. I didn't want to stand out or be seen as being any different than the rest of my peers.When I was named State Teacher of the Year, I had to discuss it with the people that I was working with. And they were like, why don't you talk about this? Like, this is really important. And I talked to my students about it, but I never talked to other adults about it. Because there's still that stigma of shame and embarrassment and not really understanding how to talk to people about it.Amanda: What do you say to your students?Kara: So I usually tell them, I say, oh, you know, it's really hard for me to learn how to pronounce words or, it's not that I'm bad at math. It’s that sometimes math is hard for me, but here is what I do. So like I got switched from fourth grade to fifth grade one year and they were doing partial quotient, and I needed to learn how to do that. And rather than learning, like after hours or during my planning, I told the students that I don't know how to do this. I want to learn with you. So I got myself a textbook and I learned right alongside my students. We went through the problems. I had a couple students that were more proficient at it than I was. And I said, this floor is yours. Like, you tell us how we should do this. Amanda: I have one last question for you. I'm going to ask you the tricky one. What would you say to the math teacher whose class you walked out of? What would you say to him today?Kara: So I actually got the opportunity to sit down with them. It's that I wanted to be the student that he wanted me to be. I don't want to have these problems. I don't want to have to work twice as hard. I was in your remedial math class and afterschool tutoring, like I'm not here because this is fun. And I just wish that he knew that I really wanted to be the student that he wanted me to be. But here we are. Amanda: Here we are. You amounted to a lot, and we are so glad that you came and spoke with us.Gretchen: And thank you for all of your honesty, Kara, and just for sharing your story in a fun way that other folks can relate to. Thank you so much.Kara: Anytime. Thank you so much for having me.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood PodcastNetwork. Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it.Gretchen: Share it with the parents you know. Amanda: Share it with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently.Gretchen: Or just send a link to your child's teacher. Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need. Gretchen: Go to u.org/init it to share your thoughts and also to find resources from every episode.Amanda: That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash in it.Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: “In It” is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood.Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry our production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
Understood Explains Season 1Getting reevaluated for special education
How often do kids need to be reevaluated? Find out what to do about losing IEP services and how reevaluations can help teens get ready for college. How often do kids need to be reevaluated for special education? What are schools looking for when they assess students who already have an IEP? This episode of Understood Explains covers the basics and key details, like why this process is extra important for high-schoolers who may want to go to college.Host Dr. Andy Kahn is a psychologist who has spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids for public and private schools. His first guest on this episode is special education teacher Kate Garcia. They’ll explain:What reevaluations look like How often they happen and whyWhat to expect after a reevaluation Andy’s second guest, Amanda Morin, will share tips to help kids and families get ready for a reevaluation. Worried that the school might cut your child’s services? Get advice on how to avoid passing those feelings on to your child.Related resourcesWhat is a reevaluation for special education?What to do if your child is losing IEP servicesEvaluation rights: What you need to knowEpisode transcriptHaizel: Hi, my name is Haizel. I'm in the Bronx, New York. I've had multiple kids that have had an IEP and my focus today is on Sayeira, who still has an IEP as a junior in high school. Sayeira has been evaluated or reevaluated by the school district several times. And I believe that at least twice was at my request. Even though she's expected to be reevaluated every three years, I did use my parental rights to have her evaluated sooner than that because I felt that one, her needs were not being met. And two, I just felt like something was missing. So I believe in total since she started in kindergarten, she has been reevaluated five times within the school district and once externally.Andy: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "Understood Explains." You're listening to Season 1, where we explain evaluations for special education. Over 10 episodes, we cover the ins and outs of the process that school districts use to evaluate children for special education services. My name is Andy Kahn, and I'm a licensed psychologist and an in-house expert at Understood.org. I've spent nearly 20 years evaluating kids for both public and private schools. I'll be your host.Today's episode is all about reevaluations. We're going to cover a few key things: what reevaluations look like, how often they happen and why, and what to expect after reevaluation. We're also going to share some tips to help kids and families get ready for a reevaluation, including what to say to your child about getting reevaluated — and what not to say. But first, let's hear more of Haizel's story.Haizel: When I requested the reeval, I was sent a letter to the school. I did send an email directly to the person that I knew would be responsible in the team. And I would specify my reason for wanting to have her reevaluated so that they can look at those areas. One of the areas I had concerns with was her memory because she would learn something and not be able to retain the information. So I'm like "Can you please look at her memory?" I would look up the information or get the information and try to focus my letter on what I wanted them to consider so that there was no question as to why I'm writing the letter.Andy: What Haizel was just describing is an important evaluation right that many families don't know about — that you can ask the school to reevaluate your child at any time and for any reason. Another thing that parents need to know is that by law, kids with IEPs, or Individualized Education Programs, need to be reevaluated at least once every three years to see if their needs have changed. Over the years, I've worked with a lot of families who are nervous about the reevaluation process. I've often heard things like, "Man, the first evaluation was so stressful. Why is the school putting my child through this again?" Or "My child is older now and more sensitive being seen as different. I don't want the reevaluation to hurt my child's self-esteem or make them feel bad about themselves." And some families are really concerned that the school is just doing an evaluation to take away their child services. While these are all valid concerns, and really everyday concerns that family share with me, my hope is that my first guest today is going to help me address all this. Kate Garcia is a special education teacher at a high school near Philadelphia. She's also a special education case manager, which means she's a part of a lot of evaluation and reevaluation teams. And she's also an Understood Teacher Fellow. Kate, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for being here. Kate: Hi, Andy. Thank you so much for having me. Andy: So today I'd really like to first talk about like the purpose of reevaluations. How do you explain to your students and their families why a school wants to do a reevaluation? Kate: Right. So the purpose of a reevaluation is to determine first whether additional information is needed to see if a student continues to have a disability requiring specially designed instruction, which are things that teachers are doing in the classroom to support students. And to see if any related services are necessary to add or take away from the supports. We also want to see if the nature and extent of the special education and related services have to be altered or changed, and if potentially the student is qualifying under a different disability category.Andy: So talk to me about related services. What does that mean for families who might not know what that means? Kate: Sure. So related services are things like speech and language. It could also be occupational therapy, physical therapy. So if your student is showing signs of handwriting difficulty, and you want to have an occupational therapist come and evaluate that student, that would be part of the related services portion on a reevaluation,Andy: OK. So big picture, we're thinking about everything that's in the student's IEP, and we're looking for any changes in how the student is functioning. Basically, we're looking for what's different in this evaluation compared to the previous one. And hopefully what we're seeing is progress. But as kids get older, sometimes new challenges may emerge that need to be addressed in the IEP. Give me some examples of what kinds of things might be added as a result of a reevaluation,Kate: We're looking for any additional needs, such as maybe counseling services. We can also look at additional supports that teachers can put into place every day in the classroom. So we look at things like would preferential seating — is that working in certain classrooms that is not being implemented in others? So we kind of take a cross-section. We're getting input from all of those teachers, and of course, the family and the student. And we can piece together what's working here, what's working there? What do we need to start implementing more of? And maybe what do we need to take away? Andy: So, take another second on that. What we need to take away — that's a big trigger phrase for a lot of our families. What would lead to a child maybe having services changed or taken away? And what would typically be the justification for that? Kate: Right? So we first of all, in order to have that conversation at a reevaluation, we have to have data to support that. So we're looking at things like is the student meeting their goals? Are they accessing accommodations, services, and supports independently? So when we think about that, we think about students who are understanding of how their disability impacts them in the classroom, how to access supports that they need after identifying that support, and then can they access help if they're having trouble with that support? And that would come from both the student, so hopefully, we're hearing the student voice in this particular area. And then also from educators who may give feedback that the student is accessing these supports without prompts. And ideally, we have someone going in to observe this student to collect data on that to support the fact that the accommodation might still be necessary, but it might not be something that every teacher has to implement, because the student is implementing it on their own. Andy: Gotcha. So really, we're not just looking at just tear away services from a kid who needs it. But more talking about, we're looking for evidence that they're making progress to do some of these things more independently. Kate: Yeah, absolutely. Because that's the goal. Disabilities don't just disappear. And that means we have to teach students how to understand what they need and how to access it. Andy: So we've been talking about why kids need to be reevaluated and understanding that reevaluations happen every three years for identified kids for special education due to the law. What do those reevaluations look like? And how do you explain this to families and the kids themselves? Kate: So the first step is always going to be our school psychologist reaching out to the family, letting them know, you know, the reevaluation period is coming up. Either we need permission to access more testing, or we're going to complete a records review. At that point, then the student possibly undergoes testing with the school psychologist. They would likely get observed by the school psychologist in a couple of different settings. And then input is gathered from the teachers and from any other professionals that that student sees, such as speech and language, counseling, occupational or physical therapy — all of these people are providing input. Our school psychologist then compiles all of that into a document. And then the IEP team, after that document is finalized, we'll look at the recommendations in place. And then an IEP meeting will be held following that evaluation. What I like to tell parents is that especially at the high school level, your student's voice is critical in this, because there's always going to be data and different perspectives. But what matters in this whole scenario is your student and their needs. And if they find that needs are not being met in a particular area, we need to hear that, because we need to make sure we're then either collecting data or getting insight on that area to address it.Andy: Kate, I want to pause here to note a jargony phrase that parents may hear, which is "triennial evaluation." That's the technical term for the reevaluation that needs to happen every three years. OK, so how often do triennial evaluations get skipped or significantly modified?Kate: I think this depends on the district. And the caseload of the school psychologist definitely plays a role in this. Also, it depends on the student and their progress. And so I have seen at the secondary level, oftentimes we talk about a records review as — you know, we're not updating the testing. So, you know, I've seen that happen quite a bit at the secondary level, especially for ninth- and 10th-graders who have been qualified under the same disability for quite some time. And so you know, the school psychologist reviews the records, they feel like we don't need any updated testing, and hence they have skipped any new testing. So I've seen it happen quite a bit.I've seen it happen more over the past few years with COVID and the impacts of, you know, more students being identified and being referred to special education. Hence, we have upped the caseloads of some of these school psychologists and made it so that, you know, they just don't have time to get a lot of this testing done. Andy: Gotcha. So one part of this is that parents have to consent for however this process goes. If the parent then gives permission to say, we're going to do a shorter or a file review evaluation, because the child has autism, or the child has ADHD, and it's been well established, and there have not been substantial changes, parents can give consent to have merely a file review, perhaps, and an observation. And that will hold the place of doing a more comprehensive assessment. I think in most cases, you had mentioned, Kate, that in some cases where schools are overwhelmed with referrals, and they don't have adequate staffing to complete referrals. And in those cases, I want to emphasize, the parents still need to consent to skip or to make a smaller assessment goal. And that's really important. If a parent wants that assessment, by law, they're entitled to it. So when we think about how kids approach reevaluation versus their first evaluation, have you noticed any significant differences in the kids you work with and their parents — how they respond to reevaluation versus the initial evaluation? Kate: I have. I've noticed with the initial evaluation, it's almost more parent heavy, even at the secondary high school level. We have a lot of questions from parents, which are great. And parents should ask questions and make sure that they're getting answered. When I look at reevaluations and the students that are undergoing those, they're a little bit more comfortable. So they usually have had a case manager for quite some time. And so as a case manager, I might be the first line of defense for questioning, you know, well, do I have to meet with the school psychologist? And what are they going to ask me? And do I have to do those tests again? So the questions there are coming more from the student because they have a familiarity with our team of the special ed department at their school, versus that initial evaluation where that student doesn't even know who I am in my role in the school. So we're getting more questions from the parent end. Andy: Totally. So one of the things that parents express as their biggest fears is that reevaluation is going to lead to their child's services being discontinued. There are times where kids are making such good progress, that they're ready to discontinue an IEP, or maybe move to a section 504 plan. What advice would you give to parents about deciding if their child continues to need special ed services, and how they can safely know if it's time to discontinue? Kate: So I think the first thing is, let's look at the data. Because if we're at this point in the conversation, we have a lot of data accumulated. And I think also what we discussed earlier with the lens of, they might still need that support. But guess what? They're accessing it on their own, which is amazing. We always try to frame those conversations with parents as what a success that your student is able to access the supports that they need, and be successful in the classroom. And we might still need some of these supports, which might present in a 504 plan. Or your student might be accessing these supports and doing them independently. And we might be able to exit all services completely. Not to say they don't still need the help. But what an amazing accomplishment that they feel confident enough in both their need and their ability to access support that they can do it independently now. Andy: So how do you help parents understand that their child might no longer need a specific service, or a formal IEP? Kate: I think the first step is to understand where the student is at through the data. So if a student is meeting their goals, if we are as an IEP team, adjusting those goals to make them more rigorous, to make them more applicable to that student's transition plan, so where does the students see themselves after high school? If we're doing all of those things, and the student is meeting them, that's a great starting point for that conversation to say, here's what we're putting in place. Here's the challenge we're presenting. And here's your student meeting that challenge. And then we also have the discussion about what sort of supports do we get as people outside of a school building? So me, as an adult, I can still access help at my job. I just have to know how to do it. So we can focus on those soft skills for many of these students who would be exited from the IEP services and reassure parents that if your child has made it to this point, and we are seeing this much progress, that we also have covered these other skills that your student is going to need to be a successful person.Andy: Gotcha. Let's talk about that next big transition, the reevaluation around maybe getting ready for college. What would be a common reason why kids would get reevaluated as high school is getting ready to end? And can you talk about like how your evaluation teams at school usually help with that? Kate: Sure. So when we think about this process, the first step to it usually happens between ninth- and 10th-grade year where the special education team mentions to the parent and student you know, if you're considering postsecondary education, which might look like a community college, might look like a trade school, might look like a traditional four-year college, you need to understand that your IEP doesn't come with you. So although we can offer you services within the district until you're 21, that might not be the best plan for every student. So if your plan is once you hit that fourth year of high school, and you've accumulated the appropriate credits, your plan is to graduate and move on to another educational setting, you need to understand the difference between what supports can be provided there versus what we can provide here in your home school district. So we mention to parents, you know, if you start visiting schools, you need to make sure that you're stopping at the Office of Accessibility, to understand what supports that college is able to provide your student on a regular or as-needed basis. And most commonly, those supports might look like a separate space to take a test, extended time on assignments, copies of the professor's notes, things of that nature. In order for your student to access those supports at that level, they're going to need documentation on file with that school. Depending on the school, they may require the IEP, whatever the most recent IEP is, and potentially updated testing. So we make this very clear to the parents, because you might encounter a school that's saying, oh, you had a record review done recently. And we need updated testing within — I've seen it anywhere from three years to one year — in order to consider this disability and have it on file and have your student receive accommodations. So we make sure by 11th grade year that our parents understand if you feel as though you might require this updated testing, we want to make sure you have it done by us. And you have our paperwork with our recommendations for your student to make sure that they're accessing those supports at the secondary level. And the other key piece that we hear back from parents as well: We're not really sure if we want that. And I tell them it's better to have it on file and not need it than to be in a situation where your student has to access supports that they don't have a record of needing. Andy: That's really good advice. So the next step in the reevaluation process is deciding whether you agree or disagree with the results. In our show notes, we also have a link to an article on what to do if your child is losing IEP services. Kate, what a great chat we've had today. I really appreciate all your input. Kate: Thank you so much. This was a great conversation and an important one.Haizel: When it comes to the reevaluations or any evaluation that Sayeira has had, I don't feel that the evaluation themselves have been difficult. She tends to like attention. And she does well one on one. So she did well with that. I think the hardest thing I've had to deal with when it comes to Sayeira having her IEP is her realizing she had an IEP. For many years, she received the services and had no idea that she was any different. It wasn't until we were doing the high school application process where there is an opportunity for different consideration of students that have IEPs, and unfortunately it states in the booklet that you look at it — so students with disabilities, they have a different code for those students who apply to high schools. It wasn't until then that she realized that she had an IEP and that she had a disability in the sense of how the DOE considers it. And that was probably the hardest conversation I had with her. To help her understand there's nothing wrong with her — that everyone needs support. Everyone learns differently. It's just that in her case, she has a little more support than other students.Andy: So we've been talking about how reevaluations help schools and families see if a child's strengths and needs have changed over time. But what can adults say to kids about getting reevaluated? My next guest is Amanda Morin. She co-hosts Understood's "In It" podcasts about the joys and frustrations of parenting kids who learn and think differently. She's the mom of two kids who learn differently. And she also worked as a classroom teacher and as an early intervention specialist. Amanda, welcome. Amanda: Thank you.Andy: So you know getting reevaluated can be really challenging for some kids and no big deal for others. What kinds of things do you advise parents to say to their kids about reevaluations? Amanda: There are a couple of things that really matter here, right? Sometimes kids don't have a good experience in a previous evaluation, especially if it was their first evaluation, because they didn't know what to expect, or they felt on the spot, or they didn't have a good rapport with the evaluator. And I think it's important to know ahead of time, from the school, who is going to be evaluating. And if it's the same person, then I think there's an opportunity to say to your child, I know this was tough for you the first time. And also, you get to show this person how much you've grown. For older kids, sometimes you may just have to say to them, this is the grind. This is the grind, this is the part that's tough. This is the part that you may not want to do. And also think of how well things are going in school for you. Hopefully, things are going well, right. And I want to make that point, if things are going well in school, you can say like, think of how well things are going in school. If we know where you're at now, they could be even better. And if things aren't going well in school, this is your opportunity to say. The reevaluation is to really get a better sense of why school isn't going as well as it could be for you. So we can get more information together. So we can make a plan. So things get better. Andy: And I think that for a lot of kids, that becomes really, really important. The idea that we're really, we're getting almost a report card on the interventions. And by giving the same sort of evaluation tools three years later, we can really see: is the stuff working for you? And I think that if it's not and you continue to be frustrated, it's really important that you're involved in this. Amanda: I love the idea of describing it as a report card on of what we've tried. It's such a good way of sort of changing the framing of that, to be able to say to your child, "Hey, guess what, you're going to be the person who's grading on this one." Andy: And also being able to say to them, you know, this is another way of showing what's working for you and what's not. And I think that's a great opening question for a lot of kids. Like when we start off these meetings, and we're talking about getting reevaluated an older kid is at the table, and we say, maybe you can tell us about what do you think's working for you here? What do you think isn't working for you? Amanda: There are things to avoid in this as well, right? There are things that I would suggest parents don't say. Don't make promises, right? Don't make promises that this will bring about change. Don't make promises that this is going to keep things at a status quo. Because sometimes we don't know. A lot of parents worry about a reevaluation because they worry about what it means in terms of eligibility. Are we trying to test my child out of the supports they have? Right? I would not suggest passing that anxiety on to your child. I would also suggest for parents to maybe think about that a little bit differently. And realize that if that's what's happening — if what the reevaluation is showing is that your child has has gained so much from the supports and accommodations that they don't need the specialized instruction anymore — that's something to celebrate. That's something that's very, very cool. You may be anxious about it, because you may worry about what happens if then my child needs that again? And I think for you as a parent and for your child, if that comes up, you can say, "We can always have this conversation again." Don't worry that you've done well, right? Let's celebrate that.Andy: So we've talked about the what, why, and how of reevaluations. If there's one thing you can take away from this discussion, it's that reevaluations can help you and the school see how your child's strengths and needs have changed over time. So don't be afraid to ask lots of questions until you understand what's happening and why. As always, remember that as a parent, you are the first and best expert on your child.In our next episode, we'll focus on how to talk to your child about different steps in the evaluation process. We hope you'll join us.You've been listening to Season 1 of "Understood Explains," from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we've mentioned in the episode.And now, just as a reminder of who we're doing all this for, I'm going to turn it over to Amalia to read our credits. Take it away, Amalia. Amalia: "Understood Explains" is produced by Julie Rawe and Cody Nelson, who also did the sound design for the show. Briana Berry is our production director. Andrew Lee is our editorial lead. Our theme was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick is our executive producer. A very special thanks to Amanda Morin and all the other parents and actors who helped us make the show. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Andy: Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission.
The Opportunity GapBias in school discipline: When the teacher says your child is “acting out”
Learn about bias in school discipline and what families of color can do if the teacher says your child is “acting out” in class. It’s an all-too-familiar situation for many families of color. The phone rings. It’s the school calling to say your child has been “acting out” in class again. In this episode about bias in school discipline, host Julian Saavedra talks with two guests:Busola Saka, a parent and the creator of Instagram’s @BlackBoyThriveJolie Battista, a former special education teacher who is an expert on positive behavioral interventions and supportsListen as they discuss key terms like implicit bias, significant disproportionality, and manifestation determination. Find out why these terms are extra important to know if you’re the parent of a child of color. And get actionable tips to help advocate for kids who have learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia.Related resources from UnderstoodWhy kids act out and how to helpWhy some kids play the “class clown”Understanding your child’s behavior as communication (podcast)What is PBIS (positive behavioral interventions and supports)?School discipline: What are the rights of kids with IEPs and 504 plans?Data sources and other informationBias isn’t just a police problem — it’s a preschool problem (NPR)Why, really, are so many Black kids suspended? (Education Week)Pandemic-era civil rights data is essential to inform special education equity (K–12 Dive)Significant disproportionality in special education: Trends among Black students (National Center for Learning Disabilities)New guidance helps schools support students with disabilities and avoid discriminatory use of discipline (U.S. Department of Education)Episode transcriptBusola: It was just one call after another, to where I would be at work and I can't function. You know, every time my phone rings, I'm like, "Oh, is it the school?" And if it is the school, my heart literally sinks because I'm like, "What is it now?"Julian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. But there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child. My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host.Today's episode focuses on that all familiar moment when you get a call from the teacher saying "Your child is acting out in class." We're going to talk a little bit about why this happens so often to so many families of color. We've all heard the term "implicit bias," but we're going to talk about how it can affect kids as young as pre-K. But mostly we're going to focus on what you can do about it. What questions can you ask when you get that call from school? What can families do to help teachers be proactive rather than reactive?To help me unpack all of this, I have two amazing guests for today's show. We're going to start with an amazing parent and then talk to an amazing educator and get actionable tips from both of them. Let's dive in. I'd like to introduce Busola Saka. She is a mother of a second grader and the founder of the organization called Black Boy Thrive. Welcome, Busola.Busola: Thank you, Julian.Julian: Let's talk about your experience. I mean, so from what I gather, we're both parents and we're both parents of little ones. I have a second grader, a daughter, and my son is in third grade. And, you know, sometimes we get those phone calls from school. We get those phone calls. And I'm on both ends because I'm also an assistant principal. So I'm the one making the calls sometimes. But now I get to see what it's like to hear them, too. You started getting phone calls from your son's school when he was in pre-K. Can you tell us about what the phone calls were about and what that was like?Busola: Yes, it was pre-K. He was 4 years old, and I had just accepted a role as a communications director at a nonprofit. And I would get phone calls in the middle of the day. And it's "Can you talk to him? He's not listening." And they put him on the phone and I'm like, "What is going on? What's happening?" But it was just these phone calls like, "Well, I can't handle him. Can you come and get him?" It was just one call after another to where I would be at work and I can't function. Every time my phone rings, I'm like, "Oh, is it the school?" And if it is the school, my heart literally sinks because I'm like, "What is it now?" So those phone calls were very stressful. They actually were one of the reasons why I decided to resign from my role at the time.Julian: So you stopped your job?Busola: I did. I resigned right before the pandemic started. It was just to the point where I just couldn't be at work and focus with the phone ringing all the time about one thing or another. So it was definitely very stressful.Julian: I can imagine. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about your son?Busola: My son is hilarious. He is very intuitive, very smart, very sensitive, very active. He loves soccer. He loves basketball. He's 7 years old now. And at the time when we started the public school system, he was 4. He can get very excited and animated and it's kind of hard to bring him down after he gets excited. But he's just a really great kid and it was very stressful for him.When I would ask him how his day was, he would go, "Well, did Miss So-and-so call you?" He would ask me that question first to determine how his day went. That was very concerning for me because I'm like, "I want to hear from you. Why do you think that you're in trouble every time I ask you how your day went?" So it was definitely a stressful situation for him as well as me.Julian: Let me ask, was he acting like this at home, too?Busola: No. And that was one of the concerns that we had. He was fine at home. The teachers would send work home because he didn't finish it in class, and he would do it in 5 minutes. And he's done. And I'm like, "I thought they said you didn't get this. Why are you doing it so quickly?"Julian: Sounds like this is a lot like my son.Busola: Is your son very social?Julian: He is. But sometimes he gets distracted. And when he has to sit and focus, he'll get the work done. He'll do it in 5 minutes. And I'm like, "You should have finished this school at school." "But Dad, I was having fun." Oh, OK. I understand. You know, and again, for the listeners that might not be able to see us, both Bulosa and I are Black folks, and this is a young man that is a Black boy. And he was experiencing this type of — I don't want to call it labeling, but it seems like there was some implicit bias that was coming out in the way that his teachers were interacting with him. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about the suspensions and the labeling that was happening with them and how race might have played a role in that?Busola: Absolutely. So it was a class of 24 children and he's the only Black child in the class. There was definitely some implicit bias going on, which I didn't really know about or understand until after the fact. So it was one of those things where it's like, "What about the other kids?" Or "Are you calling their parents? What's going on here?"I think what did it for me was when we had to go meet with the principal, which I'm sure you've had many meetings like that before. And the teacher said "He got aggressive with me." As a Black parents, when you hear that your Black son was described as aggressive, that is not very settling. Because this is in pre-K. He was 4 years old. So you hear he was aggressive and you're like "Aggressive how? What does that mean?" We had to go see doctors about and sit in the principal's office about. Talk to the child psychologist about at the school. It was just a lot of situations where normal behavior started to become a problem. And then you wonder, what about the other kids? Are they sitting — 4-year-olds don't sit still for long periods of time.So there was definitely that implicit bias going on, and that really led me to do a lot of research on that topic. And that's when I stumbled on the Yale research, where it says bias against Black men starts in pre-K. And that shook me. And it made sense. It clicked. When we start to see Black boys this way when they're so young, that follows them throughout their entire education, when they get jobs or whatever they decide to do. That stigma follows them throughout their — throughout the system.Julian: I mean, I'm just floored that an educator had the nerve to call your son aggressive at 4 years old — 4 years old! Right? Like that — and thank goodness that he had a mother that was willing to go to bat for him from the beginning and understood how she could support him. Was there anything else that was occurring in relation to his academics or his ability to do academic work?Busola: Not at all. He's a very smart kid when it comes to academics. He would, like I said, do his homework in 5 minutes and he's done and he would get it all right. So he was paying attention. He was listening. He was learning. But he was not learning or paying attention or listening in the way that we expect. And this is when he was in pre-K and we were asked to go test him for ADHD, to have him evaluated.Julian: And the school the school made that recommendation?Busola: Yes, the school did. Then you run into getting him evaluated and doctor's offices or a psychologist are like "We don't evaluate until they're like 6." So for us, it was this very frustrating waiting game. Is something wrong, or is something not wrong? And then when do we find out if something's wrong? And then what do we do in the meantime? That period of time where he still has to go to school and we're still getting these phone calls and we're still running into these issues.Julian: Tell us how you went from that experience to then deciding to start a nonprofit specifically focusing on our Black boys thriving?Busola: I started Black Boy Thrive on Instagram during the pandemic. It was the summer. I had quit my job. I was home with nothing else to do. Chased my two kids around.Julian: Well you're raising a a baby. So you got that. That's a full-time job in and of itself.Busola: And they were, I think, 5 and 3, or almost 5 and 3 at the time. And so doing some research and then deciding, hey, someone needs to talk about this. I don't see anyone talking about this. I don't see or hear parents' voices. And I tell you, when I launched the platform first on Instagram, I got so many DMs, so many text messages, so many phone calls from moms like me, from Black moms who are like, "Oh my God, I'm so glad that we are having this conversation. I'm so glad that this is — you're raising this issue because I went through this. I went through that."And I heard stories of people saying their Black son was kicked out of daycare because he was bigger than the other kids and the other kids felt threatened. You hear stories of people saying, "You know, my son was holding a pencil really tight and teacher thought he was going to stab her with a pencil." It's a really big issue that we really need to pay attention to. We really need to come together as a community about and make sure that our Black boys are getting the education they need without feeling like they're being watched all the time. Or feeling like they have these labels on them and they start to hate school.Julian: Busola, if I were to ask you the answer to that question, how do we help our Black boys thrive?Busola: Build a relationship with the teachers. I walk my kids right to the door of the classroom. I have a quick conversation with the teacher every single morning, just to let them know that I'm involved, that I'm here, that if they have any questions, they can always reach out to me. They all have my phone number. Call me. Let's talk through whatever challenges that you're having. And it's very important to have that face-to-face time with teachers, even if it's 2 minutes every day or an email at the end of the week just to check in, let them know that you are involved.Julian: I love that you named it Black Boy Thrive, because that's the goal. We want them not only to just be OK. We want them to be their best selves. We want them to thrive because they deserve it. And we know they deserve it.My next guest is an educator with insider tips for parents. Jolie Battista spent 15 years as a special education teacher. She also worked at the state level, training teachers how to use positive behavior support systems. So Jolie, I've heard in my career and I'm sure you've heard of it a lot: Sometimes schools or adults will use the phrase "acting out." What do you think about that phrase?Jolie: When I hear the term "acting out" and I hear it as an educator, think of most people were disciplining students that are acting out because we're only looking at the behavior. But we're not really thinking about the acting out. The message behind the acting out. The child is acting out in some way because that's the way they're communicating how they're feeling. Because maybe the kid's young and they don't know how to express "I'm angry" or "I'm feeling this way." So they throw a desk or throw a chair. But there really is, I think, more meaning behind the term "acting out" than we typically think of.Julian: I mean, I tend to think of it as, you know, the metaphor of of the iceberg, right? Like you only see the very tip of the iceberg. But there's so many things underneath the water that unless you're diving deep, you have no idea how large that iceberg is. And what are some of the most common reasons kids choose to behave in certain ways? What do you think they're trying to communicate?Jolie: In my time of being a teacher, I would see, you know, the most vivid picture would be a student, you know, that has struggle reading. And so, you know, sometimes teachers, we call out, we put we put a kid on blast, if you will, and say, read the next paragraph, Julian. And it's like, "I don't want to be embarrassed in front of my peers. I'm not reading this." There's so many other different scenarios that you can think of: the kid that likes to get attention, so they're cracking jokes or making fun of the teacher or the paraprofessional.Julian: Yeah, I mean, everything you're mentioning, they fall into typical behaviors that we see where the attention-seeking, the — you mentioned with reading. And we know that our babies with dyslexia, like that's a real thing that can be a giant struggle. And going back to you know, the idea of acting out, I don't allow the teachers I work with to use that. You know, I always reinforce that it's not acting out. This is communication. So what what is this child trying to communicate to you?Thinking about the conversation I had earlier with Busola, her experience — it's such a powerful reminder of how race can affect how teachers respond to certain behaviors. I spoke with Busola about the idea of implicit bias. But there's also another term that is incredibly important for Black and brown families to know about. What is "significant disproportionality"?Jolie: It really just means an overrepresentation of a particular race, of a student in that disabling condition. If you're African American and you're three times more likely to be placed in a behavior or disabilities program, that's a red flag.Julian: Can you share about how that relates to the other side, suspensions? Is there significant disproportionality in suspensions, and what does that mean?Jolie: So, yes, data shows that African American students were being disciplined almost five times more frequently than any other student. Data also shows that students with disabilities are typically disciplined three times more often than their non-disabled peers. So now we're talking about we have two groups of students that are already at higher risk for discipline. And so I think that the federal government said now in this significant disproportionality category, we need to start looking closer to see why are students in a certain program or a certain gender or certain race now being suspended?And suspensions doesn't always mean out-of-school suspensions, in-school suspensions. Basically, any time they're removed from what program their Individual Education Plan or their IEP says that's where they're supposed to be instructed. You want to start to look at why is this happening? And then looking at the patterns of how many days out — are you missing your instruction? And when you look at that, it can be alarming, whether it's a learning disability or a behavioral disability. We need to do a little bit more to instruct this kid.And so now if we're suspending and we're disciplining, this student's becoming way disconnected. And then you're going to see way other data, that it's going to have a ripple effect. Because now the kid don't want to come to school. "I feel disengaged. I don't want to go to a —" Who wants to go somewhere where they're not liked? No one. Who wants to go somewhere where they don't feel comfortable or valued? No one. So then you'll start to see students being absent, dropout rates increasing, and then the trajectory of that kid's life is altered. It's changed.Julian: What advice do you have for our parents today? What do you think they should do?Jolie: I don't think anybody anticipates to go to enroll their kid in a school and think they're going to have a bad relationship with any teacher or any principal, any vice principal, any staff member. But it happens. And it happened to me. And as a parent, everything became reactive. And I was frustrated myself and I wanted my daughter out of this classroom. I can't stand this teacher. I don't even want to talk to her. I don't even want her to call my phone.If I was proactive, I might have been able to not had to have all of those reactions. I always share with parents, like the first thing to be proactive is: Your kid's going to get a new teacher the next year. Reach out, form a connection with the school. So that's always my first — to try to be part of the school community. And sometimes it's hard. I was a single working mom. I couldn't make it to PTA. I wasn't a PTA mom. I couldn't do that.And now it's a little bit easier. My kids, when they were in school, there weren't like ClassDojo and these PowerSchool systems and parent portals — that didn't exist. So I would really suggest and recommend to make sure that parents have an open line of communication, you know, with their teachers, with the school. Send a message through an app: "Hey, you know, I'm such-and-such parent. I just want to let you know...." Just having an open line of communication, I think, is the first proactive and pro-social step, so that hopefully when you do that, it builds a little bit of a relationship and so that the interactions aren't always going to be that the teacher or the school is calling you when there's an issue — like a bad issue, like "Your kids doing this today!"Julian: And so on the flip side, I would highly encourage any parenting adults or any family members that feel like their child is getting targeted or their child is not getting a fair shot, I would put it back on the teacher and ask directly: "Tell me about the conditions that you're creating for children to thrive. And explain to me what your definition of "acting out" is. I'd like to know, because I want to make sure that we're on the same page about behavior." You know, ultimately the teacher and the family at home, we need to be on the same page.Jolie: And I think that conversation should look at patterns — patterns like do you know that, you know, in the course of October, every English language arts class of, you know, Mr. or Mrs. So-and-so, my kid was sent out. Do you guys see a pattern here? Yes.My favorite thing to tell parents, and especially in special education, we document everything. Everything is about a pattern. Everything is about data. So, I mean, even every time the school might call you, log those calls: Called on 9/7, second day of school because — I'm just making up a date — because the student's, you know, was out of uniform. Like, these are the silly calls that I think are just ridiculous sometimes. But that's just my personal opinion.When you start to actually look at those patterns, sometimes, more often than not, you will see — if your child is in middle school or high school and has, let's say, five teachers throughout the course of the day. But it's the same consequence coming from the same period, the same math teacher. What's going on in the math classroom? Let's let's talk about that.Julian: So, Jolie, last thing, last thing I want to ask you. Especially for our children that fall under the "learning and thinking differences" category. Can you talk about their rights, especially related to discipline and consequences?Jolie: So this is a — this is heavy, and I'll try to keep it as succinct as possible. Succinct. So any time a student is in the process of a referral to special education, maybe, you know, a parent has has a concern and notices something different and says, "You know, I think my kid needs to be tested." Once that referral is made, all of your parental rights under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act kicks in. It is a federal law. And what happens is your child, if they become disciplined, they — you know, it's not to say that a student that is classified or eligible for special education services, it doesn't mean that they cannot be disciplined. Sometimes this is a myth that people believe.But what is true is — what is true is that there are certain laws and protections. And the technical term under IDEA is what's called a manifestation determination. Which basically means, you know, maybe I am a student that is classified and let's say I have ADHD, so I'm very impulsive. Right? (This is true, by the way.) When the team meets and says, "OK, before we suspend Jolie, let's think about — the very first question is, 'Was this behavior — is this thing that she just did — is this really a manifestation of her disability?'" So you shouldn't really penalize me for that, because that's how my brain functions. If the characteristic of your behavior is part of your disability, you shouldn't be overdisciplined, because that's not ever going to work. We need to start talking about how can we teach you replacement skills?So that's one of the things about a manifestation determination. It boils down to two questions. The first question is that and then the second question is a really, really, to me, powerful question, not just as a parent, but as an educator. And that second question is, "Was the behavior caused by the school's failure to implement your child's IEP, Individual Education Plan?" So if the school — if my plan says that I need frequent breaks because I need to chunk my information, take it, and process it, and the teacher doesn't allow me to do that, and so now I'm overwhelmed and I'm frustrated and I act out? You didn't give me what it said I needed. And therefore, why is it my fault? And why should I be suspended or removed from the classroom? You didn't do what my plan says I need. And that's very, very important.Julian: I wish we could spend another hour together because you have so much knowledge, and we appreciate everything you shared with us today. Anybody listening has gained a lot of information they can use to support the children in their life.So before we go, I want to leave everyone listening with a few key takeaways.Number one: Behavior is communication. Behavior is communication. When a child is trying to communicate something, it's not about respecting or not respecting or not falling into line. It's about communication. So as a parenting adult, look for the patterns.Number two: Be proactive. Parents should reach out before the calls happen. Let the teachers and the school staff know that you are an involved person. And so if that call does happen, there is a relationship that's already been built. Cookies, candy, and other snacks are always appreciated.Number three: Know your rights. We heard the term "significant disproportionality." We heard the term "manifestation determination." You can use these terms to help advocate for your child.You've been listening to "The Opportunity Gap" from the Understood Podcast Network. This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Is there a topic you'd like us to cover? We want to hear from you. Email us at OpportunityGap@Understood.org.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission."The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Julie Rawe and edited by Cin Pim. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening. See you next time.
The Opportunity GapHow to teach Black history to kids with learning differences and ADHD
The podcast welcomes Kimberly Eckert, 2018 Louisiana teacher of the year, for a conversation about race, parenting, and Black history.It’s critical teach Black history kids learning differences ADHD, well students get special education. what’s best way teach it? families engage kids Black history — well current events Black community? This episode features Kimberly Eckert, 2018 Louisiana Teacher Year, conversation race, parenting, Black history. Kimberly shares personal experience growing biracial Black woman bayou South, talks race daughter today. describes “80/20 time,” method get kids engaged learning. Co-hosts Julian Saavedra Marissa Wallace also share picks books activities kids — especially Black boys — learn Black history.Resources teaching Black history kids“Young, Gifted, Black: Meet 52 Black Heroes Past Present,” Jamia Wilson (Julian’s pick) “I Am... (Positive Affirmations Brown Boys),” Aeysha Rodriguez (Marissa’s pick)“Teaching Child Black History,” PBS (Marissa’s pick)“Black American History,” Crash Course YouTube (Producer’s pick)Harriett's Bookshop (Julian’s pick)Uncle Bobbie's Bookshop (Julian’s pick) Episode transcriptJulian: Welcome "The Opportunity Gap," podcast families kids color learn think differently. explore issues privilege, race, identity. goal help advocate child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian worked together years teachers public charter school Philadelphia, saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: we're parents kids color. personal us.Hello, everybody. Welcome back. excited we're today. Hey Marissa, doing? Marissa: I'm good, Julian. excited well. special guest, I'm always excited guests.Julian: Oh, yes, yes, yes. So, Happy Black History. mean, Black history American history. celebrate uplift month, it's really important crucial remember part Black history today. really tough conversations race racism within community. continue take action fight oppression.And remember actions take today affect future, future children obviously future society world. today really special episode, Black history teach Black history kids struggle school learning thinking differences, even ADHD.We excited — word hyped. word extremely hyped introduce guest, Kimberly Eckert. Kimberly dean undergraduate studies Reach University innovative programs coordinator West Baton Rouge Schools. holds bachelor's degree social work, MEd special education, won many awards 2018 Louisiana Teacher Year. she's also author, reading interventionist, reading specialist, master teacher, much more. she's also high school teacher speak. please, thank much. let's bring grace us presence. Thank joining us.Marissa: Kimberly, share little bit tell us little bit experience growing rural Louisiana?Kimberly: Oh my. many ways, I'm still growing Louisiana. hometown — I'm bayou. It's called Marksville. Population's 5,000 people. Whenever say grew bayou, mean, real, like there's pirogues know fish. there's zombie apocalypse, make sure fed like freshest catch day.Growing Black woman, like bayou '80s, don't get opt conversations race. there's never time conversations race, racism, things completely, um, surrounding me. it's really interesting. became social worker knew wanted to, know, make change make impact.And became point felt like wasn't changing world fast enough. Like every time students leave leave school in, felt much work done. Teachers get 180 days year. I'm lucky get hour week. Like want go room happens. became alt cert teacher rest history.Marissa: remember, like become connected knowing wanting education, continue important part life?Kimberly: Education life. always go back quote. It's Mark Twain. said, "I've never let school interfere education."And think much sort growing power, myself, mean, many people really leave town. there's anything wrong staying. parents didn't graduate high school. graduating high school pretty big deal space.And number one, like education being, um, sort equalizer creating opportunities. I'm living life literally read books now, that's amazing thing. also realize power education ability combat ignorance. feel like ignorance, don't mean derogatory way, ignorance lack knowledge, ignorance leads lack empathy.And don't think people bother solve problems don't care about. don't care problems don't know about. think education way help sort illuminate problems solutions ways make better.Julian: mentioned earlier idea growing Black able escape idea racism conversations around race. know, know myself, early exposure Black history, school, home grandmother. know, Nana made sure knew story. made sure knew key figures. wanted ask perspective, start getting exposed history? mean you?Kimberly: I'm biracial. I'm biracial Black. mom's white, dad's Black. think me, baptism life, literally, mother's family, slave owners. dad's family slaves. it's interesting that's common knowledge. So lot early history tainted by, like, glory excellence. really tainted affected cruelty by, like, kind denial humanity white family life. wasn't later started really understand that's one piece. history even within family beautiful. think that's important legacy make sure expose students well, live South. much legacy African Americans Black people rooted entrenched slavery civil rights. we're still underneath dark shadow Jim Crow heavily history weighs present.Julian: go bringing classroom? go bringing students?Kimberly: me — like day one, matter class walk into, whether it's, know, first hour, it's seventh hour, matter school demographic looks like, making life authentic students front center. sometimes school least realistic place kids go. think helping students, number one, understand huge world huge history, point actually made whenever opened, we're part it.And becomes matter matters you. care about, interested in? let's find, let's find that's done before. Let's find ways that's done somebody looks like you — someone looks different you. we're sort tokenizing othering people contributions history story truth, bringing much larger perspective much larger, universal truth.Marissa: individuals blessed fortunate someone like corner, feel outside four walls, we're talking families parents, responsibility important also talk race racism their, children home?Kimberly: I'm teacher. I'm also citizen, right? Like taxpaying American citizen. I'm also mother, I'm friend, I'm ally, I'm activist. I'm many different things, right? child, biracial, presents white, OK? I'm obviously lot darker child. within community — child's 6 years old. cannot tell conversations dinner table when, example, there's this, there's boy class that's ridiculing telling she's adopted 'cause mom's Black. there's girl class told Black people white people shouldn't together can't boyfriend, girlfriend. know started even sooner that, like daycare.But problem whenever complacent, whenever speak all, become complicit, conversations happening. we're nothing counter it, we're nothing counter it. Marissa: th
“Stay put” rights: What they are and how they work
If your child is receiving special education and related services, you have important legal rights. One of these rights is the “stay put” provision of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA).This right comes into play when you disagree with (or “dispute”) a change the school district wants to make in your child’s educational placement. The term placement sounds like it means a location. But it also includes the services described in the IEP, such as occupational therapy or counseling.If you disagree with a proposed change to your child’s placement, the “stay put” provision allows your child to do just that — stay put. Your child will continue to get the same amount of services while you and the school complete a dispute resolution process.Most of the time, parents and schools work together to make decisions about a child’s education. But sometimes they disagree. Maybe the school wants to reduce or eliminate services. Or maybe they want to move a child from a general education class to a more restrictive environment.If you want your child to “stay put” while you dispute a proposed change to the IEP, here’s what you need to know.To use your “stay put” rights, you must take action quickly.Parents generally must invoke their “stay put” rights before a change occurs. Federal law requires the school to send you prior written notice of the proposed change. When you receive the notice, you need to take action to show that you’re disputing the change. For example, you might file a due process complaint or request mediation.Some states have more protective “stay put” laws. In these states, “stay put” may go into effect automatically, without any action on your part. In other states, you can invoke “stay put” rights without filing a formal complaint. Check with your Parent Training and Information Center (PTI) for your state’s specific rules. The school must follow the “stay put” rule until your dispute is resolved.If you ask for a due process hearing, it might take months before a hearing officer decides your case and any appeals process is completed. During that time, the school can’t change your child’s IEP. It must stay put until the case is resolved.There is an exception.The school can move your child for up to 45 school days (even if you disagree with the move) if the current placement is likely to result in injury to your child or others. For example, if your child was dealing drugs or carrying a weapon, the school can make the change temporarily.During those 45 school days, the school is required to provide services to address the child’s behavioral problems.There are a number of ways to resolve disputes.If you’re thinking of exercising your child’s “stay put” rights, it’s a good idea to learn more about due process hearings and other methods of dispute resolution. Understanding your child’s rights can help you prepare for the road ahead.
In ItJoy and justice with Juliana Urtubey, National Teacher of the Year
How can we make learning joyful? How can we build schools that include and celebrate all kids, families, and communities? How can we make learning joyful? How can we build schools that include and celebrate all kids, families, and communities? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra learn from Juliana Urtubey, the 2021 National Teacher of the Year. Juliana, a bilingual special educator in Las Vegas, aims to make learning “joyful and just” for all students, including kids who learn differently. Listen to Juliana’s tips for how schools can create a sense of belonging for everyone. Hear what Juliana has learned from listening to her students and their families.Related resourcesUnderstood Teacher Fellow Juliana UrtubeyWhy and how to partner with your child’s teacherFor ELL families: Why and how to partner with teachers6 strategies for partnering with families of English language learnersEpisode transcriptAmanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org and a parent to kids who learn differently. Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. Amanda: And this is "In It." "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On this show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We offer perspectives, stories, and advice for and from people who learn and think differently. Gretchen: Today, we are speaking with a very special guest, Juliana Urtubey.Amanda: We know Juliana as a member of our very first cohort of Teacher Fellows here at Understood, but maybe you've heard of her too? Last year, she was named 2021 National Teacher of the Year.Gretchen: And then "People" magazine put her on the cover of their People of the Year issue as a stand-in for all the teachers who did incredible work this past year.Amanda: Juliana teaches special education at an elementary school in Las Vegas. She was born in Colombia, and she teaches many students who are immigrants and English language learners, just like she was when she was a kid. And as Teacher of the Year, she has made it her mission to advocate for a joyful and just education for all students. And that includes students who learn and think differently.Gretchen: We wanted to catch up with Juliana in the midst of this exciting and challenging school year and learn about how she's thinking about joy and justice in the classroom.Amanda: Um, but first things first. Juliana, it's your "People" magazine!Juliana: Oh my goodness. I can't even believe it.Amanda: Here's what I really want to know: What was it like being styled for "People" magazine, and do you get to keep the amazing dress? Juliana: So I said this several times that day — um, this is the least "teacher-y" thing I've ever done. And it's interesting because some people will send me funny comments that people have made on the post. And most of the comments are about the dress, about how nobody goes like that to work. I just want to clarify: I also did not go out in that blue dress to work, but it felt super beautiful and glamorous. And, you know, I think that we're moving into a time where people's identities really matter, because I had a phone conversation with the stylist, and she asked me about my traditions. She asked me about my preferences. She really listened, you know. She really, really listened. And the similarity amongst all the folks that were there for "People" magazine making it happen, is that they all had a story about a teacher, and they all wanted to share that story. And it made that moment of being there together so much more special.Gretchen: One of the things that I know you want to do as, in your work as Teacher of the Year, is to prioritize helping educators and communities work together to provide our children with joyous and just education systems. So talk a little bit about that. What does that mean to you and what does that look like day-to-day in the classroom?Juliana: Yes. When I became National Teacher of the Year and I had to solidify what I was going to be talking about for the whole year as an educator, I struggled because there's so many different parts of me, just like my identities. I have all these layers. Well, as a teacher, I have all these layers too. First and foremost, I am a special education teacher, and I work with students with learning and thinking differences, and that's my heart. And then on top of that, we co-constructed a garden program at the school. And that was only possible through the collaboration and the relationships that we had with the families and the community.And then on top of it, I'm a bilingual special education teacher. And so what I wanted to do was have a body of work or a platform that was inclusive. It didn't exclude teachers or the cafeteria workers or the parents or the families. It was inclusive of absolutely everybody. And so, for me, joy is, you know, the first ingredient that anybody needs in education. Joy comes from knowing who you are and knowing who you are in your community, right? So making sure the school highlights every single person in the community. And then the justice part comes in because we all know that there are inequities and injustices that exist in our public education system. And we have to be honest, and we have to be vulnerable, and we have to be accountable about making those wrongs right. And I think that students have a lot to tell us about how to go about making it right.Gretchen: So what about families? How can families listen to their students, and how can families help cultivate this joyous and just education?Juliana: You know, I found that with the students that I worked with, that, you know, had learning and thinking differences, when I partnered with their families, I mean, holistically truly partnered, you know, I would tell the families, "This is just the beginning of a lifelong relationship. Like, I will forever be your child's teacher, therefore forever will be here with you." And so by building it with the families, you kind of get to know the child on a whole different level. And then you get to co-construct goals that you mutually have for that child, and then that child sees themselves reflected.I'm thinking about my student, um, Joseph, and his mom, and Joseph loved me sharing his story. So this is his real name, and he's, you know, he's becoming an advocate. He's almost toward the end of his middle school years. But when I started working with him, he felt a heightened sense of anxiety to outperform at school.And I noticed that it was kind of dwindling his joy. And so what we ended up doing was working through comics, and he would draw comic book after comic book. Um, he had an alias for himself. He was called Mr. Joseph aka Comic Squad Creator. And he would sign his homework like that too. It was really cute. But basically by letting him learn in the way that was the most joyful, most interesting to him, he flourished.Amanda: Wow. One of the things that I'm really interested in talking to you about is the fact that you have all of these different certifications. I mean, you're a general education certified teacher. You're a special education certified teacher. I know that you teach English language learners. I also know that that's not always the word that people prefer. And I'd love to know, do you use the term "English language learner"? Juliana: So I do use "English language learner." However, as an adult, as I look at my own experience acquiring English and I look at my students' experiences, I feel like the label "English language learner" falls short. Ultimately, what we want is children to be able to preserve their identities and build more identities. And I feel that the term "English language learner" puts one priority on that child: to learn English. And this is where the "just" part of "joyous and just" comes in, right? The U.S. public education system has a lineage of assimilation. And to this day, I still see family members encouraging their linguistically gifted children to only speak English because they don't want the children to feel left out, discriminated against. And then what we find out is then when these people become adults, part of them is missing. And that's a huge identity crisis.I know I went through it myself, even though I had a lot of support to maintain my Spanish language. When I was in high school, I had zero confidence in speaking to other people in Spanish. And it wasn't until very recently that I understood that my Spanish didn't have to be perfect for me to consider myself bilingual. But "linguistically gifted" doesn't only apply to students who come to us with another language. It applies to their families and their communities. You know, it applies to, um, you know, the Deaf community and American Sign Language; it applies to African American Vernacular English; um, also to all of our indigenous languages, and then first-generation languages. I think it's really important to change the frame, to see these children as linguistically gifted, because they have a gift to offer us.Amanda: I'd love to talk with you a little bit about your work with families when it comes to sort of identifying and addressing learning challenges. Because I think there may be some barriers to doing this, especially when you have people with different cultural backgrounds or when you have parents who may not speak English. How do you have those conversations with parents? How do you start sorting out those kinds of things? Juliana: This is where that historic, knowing the historical context of your communities really comes in. So during the time that I was finishing up my degree, there was a proposition that was passed in Arizona where I was going to school, and it was Proposition 203, and it was an English-only law. Which folks who were doing community organizing around human rights and immigration, we realized that that was part of a whole series of attrition laws, right? Laws that would make it more difficult for you to live undocumented or as a brown person in Arizona. And so understanding that led me to understand, you know, the larger context of immigration in this country, the immigration policies that were dehumanizing communities. If you are apprehended and you go into detention, you can wait your time out to have your court case, or you can self-deport by signing papers.So all of this is really important when I'm meeting with families and asking them to give me consent and signing these very long and lengthy papers, right? I have to understand families' experiences with this, right? And say, "What does this family need to know that their decision keeps them in the safety that they're trying to keep their family?"And so I would go out of my way to explain free and appropriate education. Um, I would go out of my way to explain how we kept all the files and basically letting them know this is only for the school — we're not sharing this with anybody. That's one big layer of it. But then if you think about a community that has faced this kind of dehumanization and criminalization, then you also have to build safe, welcoming spaces so that they know they can be themselves in the space, so that they can see themselves as valuable contributors to the Individualized Education Program. Um, and I think that that's the first step was really building that trusting relationship, um, and taking it slow, right? IEP meetings are usually so short, and there's usually so much to do, that we forget about the most important part, which is family input.So gathering that input ahead of time, before time, because sometimes it's hard to share something in a long table of adults that are professionals at the school. And then they ask you for your input and, you know, you, sometimes you blank. So giving families an opportunity to share that ahead of time starts conversations going that really need a dedicated amount of time versus what you can do in an IEP meeting.Amanda: You're really talking about building community in a big kind of way, right? Not just spending the time to say, "You need to sign this form, so." You're talking about letting people know that you understand who they are. Are there other concrete things teachers can do to build community, and maybe in particular teachers who may not share the same background as their students, in terms of language, immigration experience, and so forth?Juliana: Absolutely. Um, I think first and foremost is kind of understanding how you present yourself in a space and, um, with different, different cultures. And I have seen so many teachers across this country really rise up to understanding how they show up in a space and always being reflective and accountable about that, right? So, for example, taking on a few Spanish words really shows that they matter, right? That their language matters and that you don't see it as a barrier. And I always say that spending time with folks who have different experiences than you in informal ways is really important. And if you think about schools, we're so busy and so go, go, go, we don't often spend informal time with families. And so one of my favorite quotes from one of the teachers when we were building the garden was, basically she was telling me how before, she felt so uncomfortable; she felt like she wasn't good enough because she didn't learn Spanish in all the years that she had taught at the school.But then when we were doing the garden build and she was side-by-side with a family member who they both didn't speak the same language, she realized how important it was just to share that connection and that you don't necessarily have to have the same language to have the same goals for children. And I remember when she told me that, we were both crying, because it was so beautiful.Oftentimes, both sides want to be able to build a relationship. It's just we need the tools and the time to be able to do it. Right? Teachers are always at the top of the power structure, and parents are always below. Find ways to kind of turn it on its side. We often ask family members to cook and to bring supplies and to do all these things. How can we invite families in to just be themselves and share something?Gretchen: I'd love to hear a little bit about what you've seen as Teacher of the Year, while you've been going into classrooms across the country. What are teachers doing that's inspired you in terms of just and joyous education?Juliana: You know, I think what we have to do more of is share celebrations. Sometimes during crisis — right, we're all in a crisis — your brain goes on survival mode, and we forget how much it matters to celebrate the little moments of impact, right? And so if I have one thing that I've learned from teachers across the country, it's how they are sharing their celebrations. Gretchen: What's your favorite thing you've seen school communities do to celebrate each other and the students?Juliana: I'm thinking about Jon Juravich, the art teacher. He posted this hallway art exhibit that his students helped them make about overcoming their fear of COVID and how to turn that fear into — he doesn't say it like this, but I understood it as collective wellness.Amanda: So Jonathan Juravich and Juliana are both Understood Teacher Fellows, right? And amazing teachers. Jonathan does this series called "Drawing with Mr. J.," which, actually, I think it won an Emmy this year.Juliana: It did.Amanda: Like, he does these amazing things with his students where he's getting them to express their emotions, their fears.Juliana: It's "Seeds of Hope" is what he called it. And he talked about acknowledging worries, sadness, anger, and being able to channel that into your community. And so when they were talking about finding hope, one first grader put it as "being filled with rainbows while you wait." Gretchen: Oh my goodness.Juliana: Yeah. I mean, when we stop and listen to students, and when we give them the environment and the tools that they need, we kind of just have to get out of the way. And that's what I think Jon does with his collective art with his students.Gretchen: Juliana, is there anything that you've seen that families have done to celebrate their child that you think, "Wow, this is a great model of celebration"?Juliana: My favorite example is this family who had a student with autism in the self-contained program. In that classroom, there's physical therapists, there's speech and language therapists, there's a teacher, there's an aid. There's a lot of supports to make sure that these kids have everything they need to really participate in the learning. And so you can imagine the challenge of going virtual with this subset of classrooms. Um, there was one family who, every single day, had a different family member sitting next to their child. One day was an aunt. The next day was a cousin. The next day was mom. The next day was dad, and the next day was like a grandparent. And then there was always someone there providing the hand over hand, so the child could practice their motor skills, um, standing up and dancing with them so that they could do their brain breaks together.I just will never forget that family because of what they did to be able to organize themselves to give that child what they needed. They made the best out of a terrible situation. And I think that that lives inside of me because this wasn't a family who counted on socioeconomic privilege, right? This was a family who said, "We've got to make this work, and we're going to do it the best way that we can." And I understand not all students had that kind of support, but I want to celebrate it because it is possible when we see ourselves as caretakers of each other, right? Amanda: Yeah. Oh my goodness.Gretchen: It's such a pleasure to be able to talk to you, Juliana.Amanda: I mean, this brings me joy. Thank you so much for taking the time and joining us.Juliana: It's my pleasure. Thank you all for what you're doing.Gretchen: Amanda, Juliana is just so inspiring. She's such a role model. I'm wondering what stayed with you from this conversation.Amanda: So one of the things that stuck out for me from this conversation is, you know, we often talk about, like, how do you get kids interested in learning, and how do you get them into it in a way that makes sure they're going to learn what you're trying to teach them?But when Juliana talked about Joseph and his comic book, she said, "It was his joy," and she connected joyful learning to interests. And so finding his interests helped him find his joy. And I thought that was a really cool way to talk about it. The other thing's a little more technical that stuck out to me, I wanted to mention and emphasize something Juliana said.She talked about free and appropriate public education. And we talked about that in our IEP episode when we talked about FAPE, right? That free and appropriate public education. One of the things that was really important in this conversation is the idea of informed consent. That when we ask families to sign papers, they really need to know what they're signing.And one of the things that really struck me is Juliana talking about informed consent not just being about understanding what you're signing but also having access to it in the language that's your primary language. And I think it's important to point out that that's actually part of the law.Families need to be able to have access to the paperwork in their primary language that they speak so they can give you informed consent. The other thing that's worth emphasizing when it comes to free and appropriate public education — and I know we talked about this on the episode we did with Andrew Lee, as well — is that regardless of immigration status, regardless of language that you speak, regardless of whether you come from a family of mixed status in terms of immigration or not, students are still entitled to a free appropriate public education, no matter what. And so I want to encourage all families to keep that in mind — that your student is entitled to those services. Gretchen, what stuck out for you from this conversation?Gretchen: Juliana really reminded me that teachers are a great resource for families, right? She brought up so many tools in her toolbox of how she teaches and how she makes sure that kids have a joyous education. And some of those tools are from her expertise as a teacher. Some of those she got from talking to families or talking to her students and really listening to them. And as parents, we should remember that if we're trying to make sure our kids at home are learning in a joyous way, that we can ask the teacher what they're doing.Um, you know, I'm a former teacher, and even I forget the power of teachers. So I don't want to forget that. And I also want to remind listeners out there that if you are a teacher, teachers were a People of the Year in "People" magazine. So guess what? That means you're a Person of the Year. Go ahead and put that on your résumé, because you do so much for our kids and deserve that recognition.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Gretchen: Share it with the parents you know. Amanda: Share it with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently.Gretchen: Or just send a link to your favorite teacher. Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need. Gretchen: Go to u.org/init to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash in it. Amanda: And please share your thoughts with us. You can email us at in it at understood dot O R G. That's init@understood.org. Or you can leave us a voice message at 646-616-1213, extension 703. That's a lot of numbers, so again it's 646-616-1213, extension 703. And we might just share what you have to say on a future episode. Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
Who’s on the evaluation team at your child’s school
Is your child being evaluated for special education services? Here’s a glance at who might be on the evaluation team and their role.Administrator This can be the principal or the IEP coordinator. Administrators run meetings. They know what resources (including teachers, technology, and training) are available. It’s the administrator’s role to get the evaluation process rolling. General education teacher General education teachers share information about how things are going for your child in the classroom. They try out new approaches as needed. Then they report on what’s working and what’s not. Special education teacher Special education teachers observe your child in the general education classroom. They can do some testing. They work with the general education teachers to provide instruction. And they also share information on teaching techniques that could work for your child. Parents or guardiansIt’s your role to provide information about how your child is doing at home. You can share concerns and successes. You participate in reviewing test results and help create a special education plan. School psychologist School psychologists complete a full assessment of your child to determine eligibility for special education. They interpret results for the team and help set up a plan that works for your child. Psychologists also provide support for teachers as needed. Specialists Specialists evaluate areas such as speech/language, motor, and everyday functional skills. These specialists can include speech therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, mental health professionals, vision and mobility specialists, and more.Find out more about the evaluation process. Get answers to common questions parents have about evaluations. Learn about your rights and role in this process.
The Opportunity GapAre IEPs different in wealthy schools?
Does special education differ for the rich and the poor? Listen as the hosts take on tough questions about IEPs, race, and money.Choosing a school is a huge decision for families with kids who learn and think differently. One concern is whether special education is better in high-income schools. Another is how IEPs serve kids in racially diverse or low-income schools. Hosts Julian Saavedra and Marissa Wallace take on tough questions from Understood users about how IEPs differ between schools based on income. They discuss how race, diversity, and wealth play a role in the special education services that kids get. Related resourcesLearn about school options like neighborhood and charter schools. Avoid 5 common mistakes that families make when choosing a school.We want your feedback! Email your thoughts about the show to opportunitygap@understood.org.Episode transcriptJulian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us. Marissa: Hey, Julian, how are you? Julian: I'm chillin', chillin', chillin', what's going on? Marissa: I'm sure you're chillin', and then I heard you had a day off today. That must be nice. A nice Thursday off?Julian: Yes! It was the first day off without children in I don't know how long and, you know, I like to cook and dabble. So I made a tomato soup. Four different types of tomatoes and some basil from the garden. See, Marissa, you didn't know I got down like that, did you?Marissa: Oh, my goodness. I guess it's just the jealousy of the time that you had to make that delicious tomato soup when I put chicken nuggets in the air fryer for my family.Julian: Well, to each his own.Marissa: That sounds amazing. If you freeze any of that tomato soup, you know, I'll try it out next time.Julian: It'll be gone by the time you get here — it's probably gone right now. The kids probably eating it while we're recording, so — Marissa: Man.Julian: I'm excited for today! Andrew's in the building. What's up, Andrew?Andrew: Julian, I'm always here. By the way, the air fryer is probably the best kitchen appliance ever invented. I use it all the time.Marissa: Absolutely! Most valuable player. Like, it literally got us through the pandemic. So thank you, air fryer. Julian: So going into today and our conversation, Andrew, what are we talking about? Andrew: Yeah. So this is the topic that you all have asked that we take on. And it's the question of whether special education differs in wealthy schools versus so-called low-income schools. I've been with Understood for a bunch of years, and we answer a ton of emails, and, let's be real, most of the emails are from white, affluent parents. Not all of them. And for this show, I pulled some of the hardest parent questions about this topic. I just have to warn you, uh, these are pretty uncomfortable questions, but I think they will be really interesting and important to get your perspective on.Julian: Excellent, excellent. And it's OK to have uncomfortable conversations. We're not asking those questions? Then we're not going to really find any solutions. Marissa: And I think it becomes more comfortable when you talk about it. When we explain what special education is, when we explain what an IEP is, an Individualized Education Program, like, there's so much power in having something individualized to meet the needs of students.Julian: Right. So what's our first question? Andrew: OK. So here's the first question. If my family is in a wealthier school district, a more suburban school district, will the services in the IEP for my child be better than if my family is in a low-income school district?Marissa: I guess the starting point is to understand that a student will receive services through an IEP, which is an Individualized Education Program, once they have an evaluation. So that's the first piece of it. And that's all under federal law. So it's not an option under that law. They are required to have a free appropriate public education. So that's the first thing to think about with this question, right? If you're a public wealthy school or a public low-income school, it doesn't change what you're held accountable to, like, the law stays the same no matter where you are. Does that mean, though, the harder part to talk through and unpack is, does that mean that doesn't influence where you're located and what services you get? Julian: Here's where I want to open up some thoughts for a second. Number one, there's a lot of misconceptions about what happens in a quote-unquote low-income district. A lot of people that are not in the education world normally only have their exposure to schools through friends and family and by word of mouth, or by what the media tells them. A lot of times people will base where they choose to buy a home, the biggest purchase of your life, they choose that based on what certain scores are for certain schools or what the reputation of that district is. But that does not necessarily equate to the quality of teaching happening in those schools. If anything, I would argue the teachers that are in the most high-needs, underprivileged areas are, in many cases, some of the best teachers that we have in the business because income and financial things and poverty and systemic racism and oppression, all of those things are not a product of the schools, necessarily. There are things that the schools have to deal with and manage that wealthier schools might not have as much of. When it comes to what's happening in the building, we can't just blanketly say that there's going to be a vast difference in the quality of teaching and the quality of the experience of a typical student in a wealthy versus low-income school.Marissa: And I agree with the statement, as far as, like, the quality of your educators. I think an area to talk about, though, is access to certain actual opportunities depending upon the district. I just had a conversation with a parent and she explained to me, like, her rationale for doing exactly what you said, Julian. She chose to move to a wealthier school district in the thought that her child would be better served because of the access to supplies and the access to technology and computers and things of that nature that she knows her kiddo needs, assistive technology. And she was fearful that the school where she was currently living in a lower-income district, wouldn't provide that.And I do think about certain things, like, I lived in — we all obviously lived through this pandemic, right? And I currently, and my child right now is going to the lower-income district school. And kids at the district that was wealthier, they already all had laptops. So when everything went virtual, they didn't miss a beat.Kids had their laptops, they picked them up. That's it. My kiddo's school district that he's in now, when this all happened, it was months before kids had laptops. Months. Because they had to actually physically get money and funding to have laptops. So I think there's access issues. And that's the hard part, because I think there are fantastic educators, especially working in a city school for the majority of my career, I agree that, like, the best humans and the best educators, I 100 percent believe were in the schools that I worked in. I've never worked in a wealthy school district. Julian: Then let me ask you this one. So, Lincoln, your son, he's multiracial. So if you had the option, would you keep him in the place you're in, where there's not as much access to technology or those types of resources as quickly as the wealthier district, but he might be in an environment that's more diverse, that might be more reflective of his culture? More often than not, wealthy districts are also very white districts.The way this country is, there's not many majority minority districts that are also wealthy. Like, it just doesn't exist. Like, there's not that many out there. So, if you had a choice, would you put him in a situation where he might be one of two people of color in a class of 25, but they have all the resources in the world, they have everything they need? Or would you keep them in the spot that he's in, where it's more diverse, but he might not have the fancy new laptop or the MacBooks and all that?Marissa: Jules. This is so — you and I have been having this conversation since our kids were babies, about school. And so I can honestly, now that it's happened, right, and I'm really happy with the choice that we made of keeping him at what again is termed the "low-income" district in our area. And one of those reasons absolutely is that idea of diversity. Like he's one of 20 kids, and he has every race, truthfully, in his class and his, like in the overall kindergarten, in general. He does not have a laptop yet. So, I know that his cousin who goes to the wealthier school already has theirs and brings it home and all that jazz. But I'm really happy with our choice because, one, he's already talking very openly about others and different cultures. And two, like, there is something to say, he has an amazing teacher, and it's like, that's the hard part, right? You never know who your kid's teacher is going to be. And we both know, as educators, the relationships and the ability of your teachers to have strong classroom management, all of those other things are really more important. A lot of times, for me, anyway, as a parent, I want to see that more than any item. Because you can give my kid a computer and be like, "OK, now go ahead and teach yourself." Or you can have an amazing teacher like Lincoln has, who each day is actively there, like, putting on a show, teaching these kids to read and in two languages, right? They're a multilingual classroom. So I am, I'm very happy with our decision. And, being fully transparent, he went to preschool in the wealthier district and, two years in a row, both of his years of preschool. And he was the only child of color in his entire preschool for two years, and both years, his teachers made comments about his behaviors and how much energy and how it was hard for him to sit still and keep his hands to himself and all that. To the point that last year, his teacher suggested that I have, she was like, "I know you're in education, so I'm sure you'll have a conversation, but you might want to hurry and get him evaluated as a kindergartner." And I just was like, "Oh, OK, thank you." But this year, none of that, the teacher has never mentioned — she hasn't passed any judgment about his ability. And of course, if that's something he needs, we'd be onboard and we would do it. But it's just ironic to me how, like, two teachers in a predominantly white, very suburban, wealthy district were very quick to tell us that our 3- and 4-year-old was potentially going to need services, right? And now he's school-aged in a school that is more diverse and low-income. However, I feel like he's thriving.Julian: So that's a conversation that every parent and every family has at some point when you're deciding, like, when, where are you going to settle? And the school environment usually is one of the bigger drivers of that decision. When you're out there thinking about, where are you going to set some roots? Really think strategically about your own values as a family. What is important to you? And to dig deeper into that question of, like, the IEP, will it be better in a wealthy district, will it be better in a low-income district?Marissa: It depends. Julian: What does that word "better" mean? For some people, having the resources and having the technology is going to be really important. So, maybe that's better to you. And for some people of color, being around people who are diverse and, for some people that are not of color that choose to actively put their kids in a situation where they might grow up differently than they did. That's something that's also really important too. So it's really about deciding as a family what's important.Marissa: As you were talking, just, a thought popped into my head, though, that I think is extremely important. We, you and I, are talking because we have choice. We have to keep in mind that not all families have choice. Not all families can sit there and make this decision to move to a wealthier district. And that shouldn't be what we're telling families. I mean, I'm pushing back a little bit because my bigger answer for this, or the bigger issue is, because it is federal law it shouldn't matter where your child is going to school. They have the right to receive those services based on this legal document, the Individualized Education Program, and that is federal law. So, like, we have, you and I have privilege by making that choice, where we do have to think about our families, that they don't have that; they're going to go to school wherever they live. And so I think we have to push that back on the schools. It's gotta be the school responsibility to provide those services. And I think it's gotta be us talking to our parents and our families that they have the right to ask for those services, and they have the right to no matter where their kid goes to school to get those services.Julian: Right. Agreed, and appreciate the push and the perspective. But I would still say it always goes back to what is most important within that IEP? What are the particular aspects of that IEP that you want to make sure are happening? How are you going to communicate that to the school and to the IEP team during meetings? How are you going to communicate that to your child? How are you going to make sure that your child is very clear on what they deserve and what kind of services they should be receiving?Marissa: Absolutely.Julian: And so it's really about thinking deeply amongst yourselves as a family about what's important. And then having those pre-conversations before you walk into any sort of meetings or before you have any interaction with the school, have you talked together first so that you're ready to jump in and demand that you get what the law has dictated you deserve. All right, Andrew, what do we got next? Andrew: Yeah, that was, that was really real, Marissa. At some point, I think you and Julian should do a show for parents of color with learning and thinking differences about how they choose or what are your tips or thoughts about choosing a school district? If they have that option. Maybe they don't. But if they do have that option, it would be great show. So the next question is, and I can remember this one very early when I was working at Understood. And I recently spoke to a speech-language pathologist about this issue. Here's the question: Is it true that sometimes kids are on IEPs when they don't actually have a learning disability or a problem with speech and language; it's just that they never got taught the basics? And if I feel like my child is in this situation, should I be OK with the IEP? Now I know from reading this email that this comment did not come from someone who is wealthy, upper-class, white, and suburban. That's just my sense of the email. Julian: I mean, I'm going to be honest, just listening to the question, it already seems to me that this person might need to do a little bit of a mindset shift. For example, they said they don't actually have a learning disability or a problem with speech and language. Anytime we talk about learning and thinking differences, it's about differences, not necessarily deficit. So when I think about this person, I'm thinking that they need to think about, what do they think special education is? How do they feel about IEPs in general? And that's a journey for everybody. I know for a fact that there's many parents that think about the words or the acronym IEP, and they automatically go to "Something's wrong with my kid." They automatically go to, "I don't even want that; don't label them this, because that means they're going to get tracked or they're going to get put in a different place." And that's a societal thing that, for many years, there's always been a negative connotation when it comes to special education.I mean, so, if I'm a person that is wondering, "Should my child be identified? And what was the process for them to be identified?" I might be asking myself, well, "How well do I know my child's abilities? What part did I play in the initial evaluation process? Like, was I there and present for all of that? And then have I been tracking their progress as clearly as the school has been tracking it?"So it really puts it back on the parent to figure out, how well do I know my kid, and how well do I know their learning style, and how well do I know their abilities? And what is it that's making me question whether or not they should have this IEP or not? Marissa, thoughts? Marissa: You did an excellent job speaking on what gets lost in this whole process a lot of times, which is, like, what's the cause — what's the cause, what's the why behind my kid needs this? And I think my short answer is yeah, you should be OK with it, because, again, like, an individualized education plan cannot be a bad thing. So, like, I think there's a lot of different ways in which this can feel worrisome and troublesome for families who are, like, "Well, maybe it's just they're just missing some fundamental skills or maybe their kindergarten and first-grade teacher was not that great and they didn't teach them things. And now they're fifth graders and they still don't know how to do math computation." And there's a lot to unpack, but I think that it shouldn't be a bad thing. Like they shouldn't be something that people shy away from. If it's something that's going to help your child to learn and if it's something that's going to help them to make progress, which is exactly the purpose, right? Like, we want our kids to make progress in the educational system. We want them to learn. I do feel like this question needs a mindset shift. But at the same time, there's so much variability, and there's also subjectivity in doing the evaluation process. So we don't — I don't know, you're right, your kid might've just been labeled because of an actual need or they might've been labeled because maybe they had a bad teacher, and I hate to say bad teacher because I was like, there's no bad teachers, but I'm not —Julian: It's a good movie, it was definitely a good movie, but — an effective teacher, that's the word, effective.Marissa: Thank you. It's like, I don't like using the word "bad" teacher. It just sounded wrong because I know everyone's out there trying their best to be amazing teachers. Andrew: OK, wow, that was a pretty tough one. So this next question, based on the email, it seems like this person was at a, I don't want to say no-excuses charter school, but I don't know what the right word is for the charter schools that are a little bit tougher or have more rules or discipline. So the question is, if my child is at a public charter school and they get identified for special education or an IEP, will something happen? Will they lose their spot? What's the downside here, or is there a downside? Marissa: Yeah. What stood out to me with this particular question is the word "public charter school." So just to be very clear with families and parents, if it is a public charter that is receiving any federal funding, they cannot kick your kid out for having an IEP. That is part of the law. So, like, if it's a public charter school and, like, this kiddo would get identified and they would try to exit them or kick them out of the school or, or lose their spot, as a parent, I would know my rights about that.If it's a public charter getting federal funding, then, like, you really should feel confident that your child has a spot. And if they try to do something shady, then, I don't know, call me, I'll help you out. Andrew: Yeah. Typically we refer people to the local parent training information centers in their state. One reason is because a lot of this stuff is very local, as you know, and there's nothing more valuable than having a local advocate.There are a lot of volunteers actually out there, and, you know, I'm in the process right now, even of trying to become a volunteer, a volunteer advocate in the local school district near me. Julian: Here's the thing. Every charter network is different, and the way that charters are built and how their charters are written vary from city to city, from region to region. And so to say that a public charter school, like, you could make blanket statements about that. It's just not possible because they're all very different. But if you dig into some of the research, you'll find that many of the no-excuse model charter schools in their earlier days definitely had a harsher approach to discipline and management. And in many cases, especially in the earlier days, the population of students with special education services was much lower in charter schools than in traditional public schools. So, you might have a typical public school with 25 percent of the students having IEPs. Whereas in a charter school down the street, maybe 10 percent or 7 percent of the students have IEPs.And it wouldn't necessarily mean that they were forced out. But I've heard of stories and I've heard of situations where students were strongly encouraged to find a school that might better serve their child. That was a real thing. So I can understand where this question is coming from. But on the flip side, the school that Marissa and I worked at was a very high-performing charter school, and we had a high number of students with special services, and we encouraged them to come to our school. We encouraged them to stay with us; we encouraged them, in many cases, if they weren't receiving services at their public schools, we would go and say, "Hey, we're a great option. Come to us. We have what you need." And so there's some schools that also seek out students with learning differences to come to their schools because they pride themselves on doing really well with offering services. So what I would say to this person is really do more research. There's records out there that you can find online for every school.So you can go back and look and see, how have they done with their students in the past? How many students start with them, and how many students end up going through their whole program? So that you get a better idea of what your child might experience if they go there. Andrew: Moving on to the last question. The question in a bluntest way is, do IEPs differ for the rich and for the poor? Are IEPs different for wealthy versus marginalized kids? Do you have any thoughts about that? I feel like this is a big philosophical question that's underlying a lot of the parent and family questions that we get, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.Julian: It's like, obvi, but no. Yes and no, right?Marissa: It's not, yes. There's this connection between all of these things. As a parent, for all of our families, for anyone who has children in the school system, right? You can't deny, because school is an institution, it's where we send our babies to spend the majority of their day, you can't not address that wealth and class and race isn't going to all come together as far as what a child's experience is going to be in the classroom. So whether it's intentional in some places or not intentional, that there is going to be impact. I was talking to a parent, and her daughter has Down syndrome and they were very aware and involved and, you know, in her process of, like, making these decisions and choosing to go to the wealthier school district for her, it was about that assistive technology piece. Like, her kiddo did need computers. She couldn't handle working with a school district that was going to tell her no, you know, and that happens a lot. She was struggling with, well, "We just, we don't have that. We can't do that." And she was honest, though, she was transparent with me and said even now in the school that she is in, which is a wealthier school, she's having different types — she's not having nos when it comes to, like, materials or supplies. But now she's getting no to, like, inclusion, which to me is scary. Now they're, like, "Well, we have all this money and we have all this material, so we can actually create this classroom that looks this way, where she can get pulled out and put into," which, and maybe that works, maybe there's families or children where that type of environment might be what the family wants for their kid. But for her, she wants her daughter to be fully included. So now she's five years in, and they made this choice because she's got the coolest keyboard and she's got the best headphones and she's got all the things, but she is fighting and battling because they tried to, like, sneak on this document that she was only going to be included for 20 percent of her day. And they're, like, "No, we want her included for 80 percent of the day." So now they're, like, really grappling with did we make the right choice of sending her to this wealthier school where she's yes, she's had all the things, but now, like, fundamentally, in mindset, that doesn't jibe with what we want, which is for her to be included. Julian: Be careful what you wish for. Marissa: Yeah. It's so situational. It's so, like, need-based, and that's the thing — it's gotta be based on your kid, your circumstances, what you want. And so, yes, wealth is involved, and those things you have to think about, but Julian, you said it perfect before. It's like, what is, what are your values?Julian: So, to answer the question, Andrew, it really is about what is the purpose of school and how is it going to play a role in that family's life. But really figuring out: What are your values, what do you care about, what's important to you, and how are we conversing about it? Even when it's uncomfortable, even when this is a hard decision to make, and all of us are going through it. And it's not a stagnant decision, right? Like, just because you make a decision in kindergarten, that decision might change in third or fourth grade. And then that decision might change again in high school, right? It's a constant reevaluation of, like, is this working for us or not? And it might be hard to get out of it, but we have to do what's best for our family. And, ultimately, everybody out there, you do what's best for your family. That's what's most important.Well, it has been a really great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us and listening. If you have any more questions, we'd love for you to send them our way. And so this is Julian and Marissa signing off "Opportunity Gap." Thank you so much, Marissa. Good night.This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you hear today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice.Go to u.org/opportunitygap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
School Suspensions Take a Toll on Kids With IEPs and 504 Plans
Why are students with IEPs more than twice as likely as their peers to be suspended? Why do so many of these disciplinary removals involve kids with learning and thinking differences? And what can parents and educators do to help?These are some of the questions raised in a new report by Understood founding partner the National Center for Learning Disabilities (NCLD). The report is called The State of Learning Disabilities: Understanding the 1 in 5. The subtitle refers to the 1 in 5 children who have learning and thinking differences.One chapter is devoted to social, emotional and behavioral challenges. That’s where the report looks at suspension data. It focuses on two of the 13 disability categories covered under special education law. One is “specific learning disabilities” (LD). The other is called “other health impairments” (often referred to as “OHI”), which covers many kids with ADHD.These two categories account for two-thirds of suspensions of students with IEPs.And all that missed academic time takes a toll on kids. According to The State of LD, suspending students from school increases their risk of dropping out. It also makes it more likely they’ll get tangled up in the juvenile justice system.“We have an epidemic of school suspensions, and it’s hurting kids,” says attorney Robert Tudisco. “I see it in my legal practice every day.” Tudisco is a former prosecutor who now represents students facing school discipline actions. “As bad as the suspension numbers look, they still seem to understate the problem,” adds Tudisco. “Because the data only includes students with IEPs.”“Lots of kids with learning and thinking differences don’t have IEPs,” says Tudisco. “They may not have been evaluated, they may be undiagnosed, or they may have 504 plans.”Another fact that may surprise parents: Many suspensions are for nonviolent acts.The State of LD highlights a landmark study in Texas that followed more than 900,000 students over six years. The study found that 97 percent of students were disciplined for “discretionary” offenses. That can mean fighting. But it often means being disruptive or disrespectful. (See a PDF of the study.)This is important to note because students with ADHD struggle with impulse control. They have trouble regulating their behavior. That’s why Tudisco says they’re at a much higher risk of getting suspended.With “discretionary” offenses, schools don’t have to suspend students. The school can opt for less harsh discipline methods. But often the school chooses suspension.The Texas study also looked at how often kids got suspended. Of the students who got suspended just one time, less than 1 in 12 had LD. But of the students who got suspended 11 or more times, 1 out of 6 had LD.As noted in The State of LD, the high rates of suspension indicate that schools may not be aware of which behaviors are related to disabilities. (The technical term for this is “manifestation.”)Under federal law, kids with IEPs and 504 plans have added protections. For instance, schools generally aren’t allowed to suspend kids for nonviolent conduct if it can be established that their conduct was related to their disability. The process involves a hearing called a “manifestation determination.”The State of LD highlights ways to help. One tool is a guidance letter the U.S. Department of Education wrote last year. It reminded schools that they must give behavior support to kids in special education. If a child is repeatedly disciplined or suspended, the letter warned, it could mean the right services aren’t in place.“Unfortunately, parents aren’t always aware of their legal rights,” Tudisco says. “And some may not want their kids to be evaluated for an IEP or 504 plan because of the stigma,” he adds. Without an evaluation, though, there isn’t the added protection that comes with certain laws.“I always tell my clients, if you suspect your child has behavioral issues, ask for an evaluation,” says Tudisco. “Put the school on notice of the issue. Try to do this as soon as possible—before your child gets in hot water.”“If you haven’t asked for an evaluation, you can still ask for one after your child gets in trouble,” he says. “But as a practical matter, seeking disability protection is much harder to do afterwards.”Read more about school discipline rights for kids with IEPs and 504 plans, and the rights of kids who don’t have an IEP or a 504 plan. You may also want to learn about how schools can encourage good behavior through positive behavioral intervention and support (PBIS).Any opinions, views, information and other content contained in blogs on Understood.org are the sole responsibility of the writer of the blog, and do not necessarily reflect the views, values, opinions or beliefs of, and are not endorsed by, Understood.
The Opportunity GapEn español: Preguntas y respuestas sobre la educación especial
Conocer todos los detalles referentes a la educación especial puede resultar abrumador. Obtenga respuestas a preguntas comunes que tienen las familias.We recorded this episode in Spanish, in celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month.Los padres suelen tener muchas preguntas referentes a la educación especial. En el proceso de entender y aprender de qué se trata, se topan con términos y una jerga con los que no están familiarizados. Ante esto, cualquiera se podría sentir abrumado. Pero las dificultades pueden ser aún mayores para muchas familias hispanas.El acceso a la información es limitado o difícil de encontrar para algunas familias hispanas. También las barreras lingüísticas y las diferencias culturales juegan un papel muy importante. Estos factores pueden hacer que los padres se sientan inseguros sobre cuál es la mejor manera de ayudar a sus hijos.En este episodio respondemos preguntas sobre la educación especial. Explicamos qué son las discapacidades del aprendizaje y cómo pueden afectar la vida diaria. Examinanos en detalle los apoyos que brindan las escuelas para ayudar a los niños a progresar en el aula. Escuche a la educadora Claudia Rinaldi (PhD) explicar:Las diferencias entre el IEP y el plan 504Cómo saber si un niño tiene una diferencia de aprendizaje o problemas para aprender un nuevo idiomaLos derechos legales que tienen las familias al solicitar una evaluaciónRecursos relacionadosCómo solicitar una evaluación gratuita en la escuelaPreguntas de las familias hispanas sobre la educación especialNuestra comunidad en español en FacebookWhen it comes to special education, parents often have many questions. While learning the ins and outs, they come across terms and jargon that they’re not familiar with. This can leave any parent feeling overwhelmed. But for many Hispanic families, it can feel like an even bigger challenge. For some Hispanic families, access to this information is limited. Or even hard to find. For others, language barriers and cultural differences play a huge role. These factors can make parents feel unsure about how to best support their child’s needs. In this episode, we answer questions about special education. We break down what learning disabilities are and how they can impact daily life. We take a closer look at supports schools provide to help kids make progress in the classroom. Listen as Dr. Claudia Rinaldi, an educator, explains:The difference between IEP and 504 plansWays to figure out if a child has a learning difference or trouble learning a new languageLegal rights families have when requesting an evaluationRelated resources6 steps to request a free school evaluationThe difference between IEPs and 504 plansHow to help if English language learners are struggling in schoolTranscripción del episodioJulián: Bienvenidos nuevamente oyentes. Soy Julián y hoy tenemos otro excelente episodio. Hoy responderemos preguntas comunes que las familias hispanas tienen sobre la educación especial. Para profundizar en este importante tema, hemos invitado a la educadora Claudia Rinaldi (PhD). Bienvenida Claudia. Claudia: Buenos días. Me llamo Claudia Rinaldi. Soy profesora de Lasik University. Empecé mi carrera como maestra de escuela primaria en el área de educación general y después como maestra de estudiantes con dificultades de aprendizaje. Desde entonces me di cuenta de que podía ayudar a más familias y más niños a través de mudarme a hacer investigación sobre el tema de qué causa que los niños bilingües tengan problemas de aprendizaje. Entonces estoy ahora trabajando en la universidad en los últimos 20 años y estoy muy contenta de estar hoy hablando con todos ustedes sobre esta experiencia que pasamos muchos niños, incluyéndome a mí cuando vine a este país de diez años y cómo podemos crear recursos y apoyos nos podemos compartir para que les ayude a que sus hijos y hijas tengan mejores experiencias en la escuela. Claudia: La pregunta es: ¿Cuál es una discapacidad de aprendizaje? on un "learning disability", como le decimos en inglés. La discapacidad de aprendizaje es un desafío de por vida con la lectura, escritura y matemáticas. Puede afectar a las personas en la escuela, en el trabajo y en su vida diaria. Y primeramente las vemos cuando los niños empiezan en kindergarten al primer grado y tienen dificultades en el aprendizaje de lectura. Las discapacidades de aprendizaje son reales. No es que los niños quieran ser flojos o que tengan pereza, sean perezosos y no son relacionados con la inteligencia. En realidad, las discapacidades de aprendizaje pueden pasar por problemas de atención, pueden pasar por problemas biológicos, y las investigaciones lo que nos han demostrado en los últimos años es que hay diferentes funciones que pasan en el cerebro en personas que tienen discapacidades de aprendizaje. La mayoría de las discapacidades, como dije antes, no desaparecen. Lo que pasa es que cuando uno se vuelve adulto busca las cosas o el trabajo o profesión donde estés usando lo que no es difícil para ti. El problema con la parte del escolar es que, claro, queremos que todos los niños hagan lo mismo y aprendan a leer en la misma manera. Y lo que nos tenemos que dar cuenta es que si identificamos que es una discapacidad de aprendizaje, hay estrategias, apoyos y enfoques que podemos usar con los niños para que progresen y puedan acceder el curriculum que necesitan aprender para terminar la escuela. Claudia: Otra pregunta que te hacen a menudo es ¿Qué es un IEP? o un IEP, que es un programa educacional individualizado. Es un documento donde cuando los niños tienen esta discapacidad de aprendizaje, lo que las escuelas hacen es que crean este documento donde establecen exactamente qué apoyos y enfoques van a hacer para que los niños puedan progresar y salir adelante en la escuela. Hay una ley educacional en los Estados Unidos que se llama IDEA, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, y en este "ACT," que tiene varias siglas en inglés, requiere que las escuelas públicas y charters creen este documento individualizado por niño para que reúnan los requisitos y los servicios que se merecen de acuerdo a su discapacidad. Así que parte de esto lo llamamos la educación especial. Y cuando se identifica que el niño o la niña necesitan educación especial o tienen una vez capacidad de aprendizaje a partir de los tres años hasta el día que se gradúen de la escuela secundaria, pues se les crea desde ese documento que sigue la ley y puede caer en 13 diferentes discapacidades. La más común, claro, siendo la discapacidad de comunicación y discapacidad de aprendizajes. Claudia: También otras cosas de saber de IEP es que trae protecciones para los estudiantes, las familias y las escuelas. Porque exactamente dicen cómo van a ayudar a los estudiantes, cuánto tiempo de servicio, en dónde pasa el servicio, cómo van a evaluar su progreso, y entonces se asegura que se otorgue derechos a los estudiantes en respecto con el aprendizaje y la disciplina escolar. El IEP también comienza con una evaluación. O sea que si tú tienes un hijo que tiene algún problema de aprendizaje, los maestros o tú como padre pueden comenzar el proceso de evaluación indicándole a cualquier persona en el colegio siendo ya la maestra o el principal o director que crees que tiene tu hijo una discapacidad de aprendizaje y en ese momento te van a pedir que firmes un papel, que das permiso para que evalúen a tu hijo en varias áreas de educación, de aprendizaje, de desarrollo y de inteligencia, donde les da más información para ver si llegan a tener la criteria que se necesita para identificar que el niño tiene un problema de discapacidad o de necesidad de educación especial. Ese proceso dura unos 45 días y a los 45 días reúnen a las familias. Los padres vienen a la escuela y repasan con un equipo de educadores que salió en los resultados de las evaluaciones, y qué necesidades tiene el estudiante. Si tu hijo va un colegio privado, puede que esto no ocurra, pero puede siempre ocurrir a través de tu colegio público más cercano. En el caso de los colegios privados o las escuelas privadas, si ellos no reciben fondos federales, no tienen el requerimiento legal de proveer los servicios que tu hijo necesita. Eso es muy importante saberlo, porque entonces puedes acceder al colegio público y puedes pedir que los servicios vengan, o tu hijo vaya por tiempo para recibir esos servicios de estrategias y enfoques que necesita para poder aprender en el colegio público. Claudia: Otra pregunta que nos llega mucho es ¿Qué es un plan 504? Esta es otra manera de ayudar a los niños que tienen discapacidades pero que no coinciden la criteria que está en las 13 categorías de la ley educacional, la que se llama IDEA. Entonces, digamos, por ejemplo, es muy común cuando niños que tienen problemas de aprendizaje que de pronto no lleguen al criterio y entonces esta es una opción donde también es otro tipo de documento que no les puede discriminar y entonces les ayuda a que identifiquen que esta discapacidad si los tiene sin poder aprender y que les deben de dar ayuda básica para poder completar los requerimientos de la escuela para aprender a leer, comunicarse o pensar. Es otro tipo de plan. Es un poco menos detallado, pero es una manera positiva también de que a tu hijo o hija le den más ayuda en el colegio si no pasa el criterio para la educación especial. La más grande, la importancia más grande aquí es de que digamos, esto pasa mucho cuando tenemos niños que tienen el déficit de atención y les está yendo bien, pero tienen mucho problema en enfocarse en la clase o en completar las asignaturas, pero son suficientemente inteligentes que pasan los exámenes, entonces como que sí necesitan ayuda, pero les está yendo un poco mejor en lo académico. Entonces no pasan el requerimiento de educación especial, pero pueden tener ayuda de, digamos, de acomodaciones para que les den extra tiempo en los exámenes o que puedan tomar los exámenes en un sitio donde no haya mucha distracción o otro tipo de ayuda que sea un poco diferente, pero que les ayude a poder demostrar que es lo que saben, que es lo más importante que queremos saber. Claudia: ¿Cómo pueden saber los padres y educadores que su niño o niña tiene dificultad para aprender en un nuevo idioma o si tiene una discapacidad de aprendizaje? Eso es como la pregunta que vale 1 millón de dólares, ¿verdad? Todos queremos saber. Y una de los aspectos más importantes de saber esa diferencia es que cuando tú tienes un problema de aprendizaje, se va a ver en cualquier idioma, en español, en inglés, en francés, en lo que sea. O sea que si tienes dificultad en aprender a leer en español, lo vas a tener en aprender a leer en inglés. Y esa es una de las maneras que podemos ver, digamos qué es lo que está pasando con el estudiante. Así que cuando venga esa evaluación de la que hablé hace unos momentos para tu hijo que es bilingüe, o tu hija que es bilingüe, es importante que lo hagan en los dos idiomas. Haz de cuenta, por ejemplo, que tu hijo habla español muy bien, pero no habla inglés muy bien. Si les hacen las preguntas en inglés no más, pues va a verse como si tuviera una discapacidad de aprendizaje. Pero lo que pasa es que solo está aprendiendo y no tiene suficiente vocabulario o no puede hablar bien para explicar que sí sabe. Entonces es muy importante que pidamos que la evaluación también sea en español y que puedan los muchachos demostrar qué es lo que saben usando cualquier idioma. Con eso sabemos en realidad qué es lo que sabe, no si puede traducir de un idioma al otro. Claudia: Hay muchos factores que hay que considerar que pueden estar causando o contribuyendo a sus dificultades en la escuela y el aprender un nuevo idioma toma mucho tiempo y toma mucha energía funcional en el cerebro, ¿verdad? Así que es importante que veamos progreso en los dos idiomas y que sigas en tu casa, si eres padre, enseñando tu primer idioma, porque es la manera más fácil que haga la transición al inglés. Entre más vocabulario estén aprendiendo en su idioma natal o en el idioma de la madre, es más posible que hagan esa conexión en inglés y tengan más vocabulario y el vocabulario es lo que más evaluamos en qué saben los niños. O sea que es importante que pueda hablar lo que más pueda en su casa de cualquier cosa. Es importante que les pregunten cómo les fue en el día, que les pregunten qué son las diferentes cosas, que les ayudan en la cocina, que los ayuden a cambiar el aceite del carro o lo que sea, que los mantenga en conversación para que tengan esa habilidad de continuar a desarrollar su idioma, porque eso hace que el inglés lo hagan a la transferencia del inglés mucho más fácil. Claudia: En la escuela, para los maestros lo que es importante es que no los dejemos sentar atrás en la clase sin darle ayuda, pero que trabajen con la maestra de ESL o la que les enseña el inglés y esa persona viene contigo a tu clase para ayudarte a dar los servicios, a ver cómo transfieren ese vocabulario y esa habilidad de habla de su primer idioma, en este caso español, a inglés. Y cómo pueden mejorar eso con el currículum que están aprendiendo. Tenemos que darnos cuenta de que ellos tienen dos trabajos. Los niños que son bilingües y están aprendiendo inglés tienen dos trabajos muy grandes. Uno es aprender idioma, el nuevo idioma, y el segundo es aprender el currículum, mientras que los niños que ya hablan inglés solo van a aprender el currículum. Así que el día para ellos es mucho más fácil y mucho más difícil para los nuestros que están aprendiendo las dos lenguas. Yo fui una de esos estudiantes, Yo vine de diez años, no sabía una palabra de inglés, pero yo hablaba siempre en español en la casa y ya sabía leer en español. Entonces la transferencia fue un poco fácil para mí porque yo traía un buen lenguaje y un buen vocabulario en español, que me hizo generalizarlo en inglés, mucho más fácil. Claudia: En español y en inglés casualmente hay 40% de palabras que las llaman cognatos, que quiere decir que son muy parecidas en un idioma y en el otro. Como decir "importante" en inglés es "important," solo es quitar la "e" y tiene la misma definición, el mismo contenido de la palabra. Entonces si podemos enfocarnos en hablar con nuestro niño en el idioma que es fuerte para nosotros, donde podemos darles mucho vocabulario. Entonces cogen el idioma en el inglés y lo traducen mucho más rápido. Cuando vemos que este proceso va más lento que otros niños como tu hijo, entonces es cuando empezamos a ver qué es lo que está pasando. Entonces, el primer paso puede ser que tú digas que no has visto que el niño esté aprendiendo más palabras en tu casa en tu idioma, o que no lo veas que esté aprendiendo a leer en inglés. Y si tienes esa duda, pues es importante hablar con la maestra para que le hagan una evaluación de educación especial para ver si necesita ese IEP o el Programa individualizado de Educación, ¿verdad? Claudia: La última pregunta es ¿Qué derechos legales tienen los padres durante el proceso de evaluación de sus hijos? Tenemos un derecho a la evaluación, a solicitar esa evaluación en cualquier momento. Tenemos el derecho de dar consentimiento o no dar consentimiento. Tenemos el derecho de una evaluación exhaustiva, o sea que tienen que dar suficientemente la información que tú te sientas cómoda para tú decir si mi hijo necesita esta ayuda que me están ofreciendo o no, no te pueden discriminar. Si tienes tu estado migratorio, no te pueden discriminar por eso, y no te piden nada de información sobre tus cosas personales de inmigración. Así que cualquier niño tiene el derecho de tener esa opción, de recibir ayuda en educación especial a través de ese IEP. Y como te digo, la otra parte importante es tú hacer un abogacear para que la evaluación incluya el español, que es algo requerido por la ley, pero que puede que muchas escuelas no tengan porque no tengan evaluadores bilingües, pero ese es el problema de ellos. El problema tuyo es asegurarte que los niños lo evalúen con la mejor posibilidad y más exhausta que puedan hacer para saber dónde están y para que no te discriminen el niño porque no habla inglés. Claudia: Otras ideas de pensar es, pensar en tu familia. Puedes comparar a tu hijo con otros hijos y pensar en el desarrollo que has visto en los niños ya mayores. O si tienes otro hijo de la misma edad, más o menos puedes comparar porque tienen muchas cosas similares de cómo hablan en la escuela, cómo hablan en el colegio y puedes comparar o puedes pedir que comparen con otros niños con partes similares de su experiencia escolar para que te ayuden a evaluar si es mejor identificar una discapacidad o es solo que están aprendiendo inglés. Claudia: Gracias a todos por escuchar este podcast. Estamos muy emocionados, hay muchos recursos en la hoja de Understood, en el website de Understood donde habla sobre este proceso. Es accesible en español y en inglés, así que no dejen de visitar los recursos que están siguiendo este podcast. Y también, si tiene más preguntas, mándelas para que el equipo nos ayude a continuar la conversación. Julián: Muchísimas gracias doctora Claudia. Y a nuestros oyentes, gracias por acompañarnos. Hasta la próxima. And now, here are our credits, in English. The Opportunity Gap is produced by Tara Drinks, edited by Cin Pim. Ilana Millner is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show for the Understood Podcast Network. Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time!
In ItABCs of IEPs
What’s an IEP? And why are there so many confusing acronyms in special education? Hear answers to common questions about IEPs and more. What’s an IEP? And why are there so many confusing acronyms in special education? In this episode, host Gretchen Vierstra gets answers to common questions about Individualized Education Programs (IEPs) from co-host Amanda Morin and their colleague Andrew Lee, a special education legal expert. Andrew and Amanda explain the basics of IEPs — starting with “How do kids even get one?” They also break down the meanings of special education terms like PLOP, and answer questions about IEPs from the Understood community.Related resourcesUnderstanding IEPsIEP and special education termsDownload: Anatomy of an IEP What is the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)?Episode transcriptAmanda: This episode of "In It" is dedicated to the memory of Melody Musgrove, who died in September. Melody was an Understood expert and led the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Special Education Programs from 2010 to 2015. Melody was a true champion for inclusion and for students with disabilities. She was also gracious, kind, and generous with her knowledge and time. Thanks to Melody for always having been in it with us.Amanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org and a parent to kids who learn differently.Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. And this is "In It."Amanda: "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On this show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We offer perspective, stories, and advice for, from, and by people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other types of learning differences.Gretchen: And today we are going back to the basics to offer what we're calling the ABCs of IEPs.Amanda: An IEP stands for Individualized Education Program. It's both a legal document and kind of a roadmap. The IEP document is a written plan, and the program is the special education instruction, supports, and services your child needs to make progress and thrive in school.Gretchen: An IEP is often a parent's formal introduction into what's going on with their kid and how the school is supposed to support their learning. So, it's a pretty important document. But it can also be confusing.Amanda: And so, to help you break it down, we've got two experts. One is me.Gretchen: Yay!Amanda: And the other is another member of the Understood team, Andrew Lee. Gretchen: Andrew works with us on editorial content and is also an attorney who has written a lot about special education and the legal rights of kids. Andrew, welcome to "In It."Andrew: Thanks for having me, guys. I'm super excited to be here.Gretchen: So, to get things started, let's tackle some of the intro-level questions about IEPs we get a lot, starting with: How do you get one, and who initiates the process?Andrew: Should I take that one on, Amanda?Amanda: Yeah, absolutely.Andrew: The way to get an IEP is to start with a school evaluation. So, asking or requesting that the public school that your child is in conduct an evaluation of your child.You know, most experts will say you should do this in writing. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be, you know, 20 pages long. It's just, "I'm really concerned because I think that there are some things going on with my child. I feel they may need some services, some special education, and I really want an evaluation."And that gets the ball rolling. Once that happens, the school has an obligation to sort of do this evaluation, and the evaluation is basically a way to collect information about where your child is at. It can involve watching them in class, looking at report cards, it can involve some more involved types of tests. But the purpose is really to understand where your child is at, their needs, you know, their strengths or weaknesses.Once that happens, there's a step that comes after that, which is eligibility. And that's where they decide, well, based on everything they found in the evaluation, does your child qualify for an IEP?Amanda: And I think I'm going to jump in and say, around initiating the process, it's — one of the reasons we suggest you put it in writing is because there's a timeline, and that putting it in writing gives a date where that timeline starts.Sometimes the school will initiate the process, but they'll usually talk to the parent first, before they initiate the process. As to getting an IEP, I think it's important to realize, like, there are certain things around that, that a child has to have a disability that's covered under one of the categories of disability, and it has to affect their education.Andrew: Those are really good points, Amanda. If you look at special education law, you have to fit into one of these 13 defined categories of disability. And it's not just that. Your child has to have one of those disabilities and then also, because of that disability, really need those services to sort of make progress in school.Amanda: And Andrew and I have written a lot about this for Understood, so we'll drop some of the pertinent links into the show notes so people have things to refer back to as well.Gretchen: That was a really clear explanation, and so let's move on to another question. Do you have to be a legal U.S. resident to get an IEP?Andrew: The answer to this is absolutely not. You do not have to be a legal U.S. resident to get an IEP. In general, kids have the right to an education in public schools in the United States, regardless of their immigration status, regardless of the immigration status of their parents. So, it doesn't matter whether or not you are a legal U.S. resident or not, or anybody in your family is or is not. You have a right to public education. And that right actually includes the right to special education. Now I know that saying that you have a right to an education, to special education, to an IEP, regardless of immigration status, that's one thing. But as a practical matter, I know a lot of families or parents or caregivers, they can be concerned because they walk in and, you know, perhaps jeopardize or perhaps, uh, you don't know what's going to happen. And I just want to acknowledge that's a real concern. But at the same time, it's important to know that you have that right and that the children have that right regardless of their immigration status. And that my feeling is that the vast, vast, vast majority of schools take that seriously because they know how they have that legal obligation.Amanda: This is why we bring on the legal expert. This is awesome.Gretchen: Exactly. Kind of related, another perhaps barrier some people might think of. Does an IEP cost money?Andrew: Yeah. No, an IEP does not cost any money. It's completely free. I used to think that this was pretty widely known, but it's actually a really common misconception. And the place that it comes from is, you know, when we send our kids to school, we pay sometimes with their school supplies, we pay for their clubs, they're going on a field trip, we might pay a little bit there, you know, school lunch. And so we think of certain things in school as costing money. But it's really important to know that the IEP, the evaluation process, the services, technology — everything in that that comes with special education is completely free.Amanda: I think it's a good time to add, too, that an IEP is a public school document from kindergarten through 12th grade. And the reason I mention that is because the law under which an IEP is governed applies to any school that takes federal money, that has federal money that comes into that school district to provide education. So, to Andrew's point about it being free, education in public schools is free, and that's part of education. So, just wanted to make that point too.Gretchen: And can I ask a related question, then, because you all spoke earlier of an evaluation, right, setting off the process. So, is the evaluation free?Andrew: Anything that relates to the IEP, to the special education process, is free. So, that evaluation does not cost a penny. And that's one reason why it's great to ask. You have nothing to lose. If you think something is going on with your child, if you think that they could benefit or they need these special education services, they need that IEP, there's no downside to making that request, because it doesn't cost anything.Gretchen: Great. We asked some of our community members to submit some questions. And so, one parent had asked, "Will my child be looked down upon if she gets an IEP?"Amanda: I love that this parent asked that, because it's such a common question. Having been a parent of two children now who have had IEPs from the time they walked into a school until the time they graduated, I can say I understand that concern. I think that "looked down upon" is not going to happen from a school perspective. All schools want to make sure that kids have what they need to learn successfully, right? An IEP provides that outline of what that child needs to be a successful learner in the classroom. The other component of this is more around, how do you talk to your child about having an IEP and making sure that they understand this is in place to support them, so they feel empowered by it and don't feel embarrassed by it. That's a tall order. I just want to say that, like, really up front; it's a tall order. But making sure a child understands what that IEP is for, and knowing that there are rights that go with it for both parent and child matter a lot. It's a process, and parents themselves need to get comfortable with understanding that there's nothing wrong with a little help, and that there are a lot of other kids who have IEPs.So, I think it's important to know your child is definitely not the only one in that classroom, in that school, in your district, who has an IEP.Andrew: One thing, if you are concerned about it, you can always talk to the school and the IEP team. That's the educators and people at the school that are sort of in charge, along with you as the parent, of making sure this IEP is working.There are ways to make sure that your child doesn't stick out when they need to maybe receive a service, or if there is an accommodation, like, or some sort of tool that your child's using on their computer, everybody's computer looks the same. Or, you know, there are ways to make it much more comfortable for kids, because we know how kids, not all kids love to feel different. But there are ways to make sure that everybody is sort of in one classroom and is included in the learning there.Gretchen: So, I'm looking at a sample IEP, and although way back when, as a teacher, I was trained in how to read one of these, I can see how it's totally overwhelming and confusing when you look at it for the first time. And in part, because there's just so many acronyms.Amanda: It is an alphabet soup, isn't it?Gretchen: It really is.Andrew: The thing to remember, I think, if you are getting confused by them, is that everybody does. Even people who have been in this field for a while are, like, "Oh, what was that term?" Um, so you can, there's no shame in asking questions, and actually as a parent, you have a right to ask questions about these terms.Amanda: I think I would add to that, that the forms have the same sort of fields to them, right?So, there are things that need to be in an IEP regardless of whether you're in Nebraska or California or New York or Maine or wherever you are, they all have to have certain goals and they have to have levels of performance. They have to have all the same kinds of things.But the forms don't always look the same. So, as somebody who is a trained special ed advocate, has done this with my own kids, I might pick up a form from a different state and have to really dig through and find where that information is. So, they don't always look the same, but the information in them should be the same. There's standardized types of information, and then there may be additional commentary and things like that.One of the things that I think I want parents to know is that you have the right to add commentary. Like, you have the right to have input into this whole process. So, your written commentary can be added to that IEP as well.Gretchen: OK. So, back to all those fun acronyms — we're going to do a little lightning round of "What the heck are these acronyms, and what do they mean?" So, Andrew and Amanda, you get to take turns answering these questions. You ready? Let's go. OK. So, here's the first one you might see: It's F A P E, or FAPE. What is it?Andrew: Yeah, FAPE is the right to FAPE: free appropriate public education. This is probably the most important right for kids with disabilities, for kids with learning and thinking differences who qualify for an IEP.And I want to break it down letter by letter. So, F A P E. F is for free. We already talked about the IEP process, special education as being free. So, it's really important: This is free. A is for appropriate. This is the letter that probably gives people the most difficulty. Appropriate is what's right or appropriate for this child's learning and thinking difference. You know, what's right or appropriate for a child with dyslexia might be different from what's right or appropriate for a child with ADHD or autism or a mobility issue. And the next letter is public. And the meaning of that is that it's directed by the public. It's up to the standards of the state in which you live. It's something that's part of what the school is doing with you. And the last is education, that it's related to school, how a child is doing in school. Now that doesn't mean it only has to be about academics. A lot of behavior issues impact education. But this right to FAPE traces itself back to school — so, free appropriate public education.Gretchen: All right, let's move on to another one. FERPA, or F E R P A.Amanda: Oh, that's one for the lawyer.Andrew: I'll take that one as well. So, for the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, wow. Now, this is a law that has two goals to it. The first one is educational rights. So, that is your right as a parent to see your child's educational records, to see what's in their file. And that's really important because maybe you want to see, how did that evaluation go? Or what is the teacher collecting about your child, and you have a right to do that.The other part of FERPA is the right to privacy, and that means that you have the right to see that but you also have the right to prevent certain people from seeing it.There are some exceptions to that privacy. For example, if there are educators in the school that need to see your child's records, obviously they would be able to see that. But in general, it's your sort of right to keep your child's records private. Now, FERPA, I just want to mention that it applies to all kids, not just kids who receive special education or IEPs. It applies to all children.And another thing to know is that, actually, if your child does have an IEP, you actually have a few more rights beyond FERPA around your child's disability, how long information is kept. But instead of knowing all those details, what I think I want parents to remember is that this law gives you those two big rights: One is to see what's in the files, and also to prevent those files from going beyond where they should.Gretchen: Got it. All right. What about L R E? What's that?Amanda: Ooh, I've got that one. So, LRE stands for least restrictive environment. And what the least restrictive environment is, is one of these really big landmark pieces of special education rights for children.They have the right to be educated with what's known as their nondisabled peers as much as possible. A lot of people think of special education and think that students are going to be taken out and put into a different classroom. LRE, the right to LRE, says that that happens as little as possible, and that you need to try whatever you can to make sure a child stays in the same classroom as their peers as much as possible.One of the cool things is students who learn and think differently, ADHD, learning disabilities, we know that those are students who spend 80 percent of their time in the general education classroom. So, if you're worried that your child's not going to be in the classroom with the rest of their peers, LRE is the thing that you want to be paying attention to.Gretchen: All right. Is this IDEA or I D E A?Andrew: It's I D E A. But, yes, it's so funny because we say FAPE as FAPE, and we don't go F A P E, but then we get down to IDEA, and we say I D E A, not IDEA.Amanda: But it's a good idea.Andrew: It is a good idea! Um, so, IDEA, this is the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. The way that I think about this is this is our nation's special education law. So, everything we're talking about, all the terms — FAPE, LRE, or most of the things we're talking about — come from this law. And this is really the fundamental piece of legislation or law that gives rise to all these rights. And so, it's really important just to know that. I don't think anybody walks around and says "IDEA, IDEA" when they're, you know, in an IEP meeting. But it's important to know that these are where many of these rights are coming from. Gretchen: Here's some others I'm wondering about, and I'm not sure I'm going to say these acronyms correctly: plop, plep, or is it plath, plafth? What? What is it?Andrew: It's like potty humor, right?Amanda: It does sound like that. So, Gretchen is saying PLAAFP, PLOP, or PLEP, and PLAAFP is P L A A F P: present levels of academic and adaptive functional performance. PLOP is present level of performance. PLEP is present level of educational performance.Basically, they mean the same thing, right? They're looking at skills. It's the way a child is doing right now. What is their skill level and all of these different kinds of skills that you've looked at in the evaluation? The reason they're said differently is because educational performance is like academic skills. The level of adaptive functioning is things like life skills and behavior; present level of performance, PLOP, is the one I love. I mean, it's the one — Andrew, you're right, it sounds like potty humor — but present level of performance means you're looking at all those skills together. And it is one of those things that has to be in every IEP.Gretchen: OK, so, Andrew, one more. What is PWN?Andrew: OK, so, PWN is prior written notice. So, one of your most important rights when you're involved in the evaluation or IEP process, when you get this, you know, the IEP, is just your right as a parent or a caregiver to be involved. And prior written notice, it basically stands for the notice that the school has to give you whenever it's making a change, whenever it's doing something, it's going to give you a piece of paper that's going to say to you what's happening. So, if they're going to place your child in a certain service or change of service, whenever something happens, you'll get that form. And it's really important to know and to ask for, if you haven't gotten it, if something happens, you didn't know about it, you should say, "Where was my prior written notice? Where's my PWN?" Gretchen: Where is my PWN?Andrew: Though I would say they will probably refer to it as prior written notice, not PWN.Amanda: Sounds like an airport code now. Where are you flying out of today? PWN.Gretchen: OK, so, one more we want to cover, and we're moving from letters to numbers because this is important, too — um, what is a 504?Amanda: OK, so, 504 is usually not said just as 504, you usually hear "504 plan." And a 504 plan, a lot of people think it's a special education plan also, but it's not. It is a plan that provides accommodations for students who need them but don't need specialized instruction, and it's provided under a different law. Andrew, do you want to name the law? Because I'm going to leave something out of it. Andrew: Yeah. It's Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, and don't worry about that so much, as 504 plan is everything Amanda said. But that's the law; it comes from Section 504.Amanda: Which is a civil rights law, not an education law, and I think that's important to know. And some kids who may not qualify or be eligible for an IEP, they have a 504 plan. The one thing I would add for parents here is a lot of parents worry that it's not "as good as," right? And I want to make sure that we're saying that's not actually the case. If a 504 plan provides all the accommodations and support your child needs to get the education they need, that's great.Andrew: Totally agree with that. I mean, it's what's appropriate for their child, what's right for the child. Some kids need more support. Some kids who don't have any learning or thinking differences, any disability, they don't need a 504 plan or an IEP, and that's completely fine. And so, these are just different levels of support or different types of support for the different needs that kids have.Gretchen: Andrew, this has been so much fun. I mean, fun in, like, the wonkiest way. Do you have last thoughts that you want to talk about before we — Andrew: Sure. Just like a quick note is, like, we've gone through this really quickly, and you can keep diving into this stuff and getting deeper and deeper. But if you ever are confused about these terms, just remember as a parent, you know, if you're ever in those, you're ever in the meeting room with the school, you can stop everything and say, "Please explain that to me again."You have that right. You have the right to be informed, to know what's going on, to be involved in the process. And how can you be involved if they don't explain to you what some of these terms are? So, don't worry about taking notes or memorizing them right now. Just know that they will come up and that you have the right to ask about them.Amanda: That's such good advice. And somebody else in the room is going to want you to ask, too, because they're not going to know.Gretchen: Exactly. I mean, there could be a teacher there thinking, "Gosh, what was that again? I'm supposed to know this." Go ahead and ask.Amanda: Andrew, thank you so much for joining us. What fun.Andrew: Yeah, this was awesome. Thanks for having me. It was really a pleasure.Gretchen: Before we go, Amanda, I think we have time for just a few more questions from folks in the Understood community, and these questions get at some of the more sticky or maybe just frustrating aspects of how IEPs work.Amanda: Sure. Ask away.Gretchen: OK. Here's the first one. This person writes, "I don't understand needing to retest a student every three years in order to continue to qualify for student support and their IEP. Dyslexia doesn't just go away. Our insurance doesn't cover it. It costs a lot of money. Why do schools require retesting?"Amanda: That one is tricky, Gretchen, because it's asking sort of three things in one question. It's asking the question of why do students need to be retested every three years? And the answer varies. And sometimes the answer is, if the IEP team agrees that the goals and information that they have is sufficient, there's no need for retesting and they don't have to do it. But it actually gives you updated and accurate information to make sure that the goals and services that you have in place for the student are really the appropriate ones, and it helps you see progress.The second question in here is do I have to pay for the retesting? And the answer is no. Triennial testing, that three-year testing, is done by the school at public expense, just like initial evaluation. And you and the rest of the IEP team sit down and figure out what's the best testing you need to do to get a better picture of what's happening with your student.And then the third question is, basically, is this retesting being done to prove that my child still has a disability? And the answer is no. It's not trying to prove or disprove that your child still has dyslexia. It's really just trying to look at what the continued academic impact is and what that looks like in a classroom so the student can have what they need to continue to thrive. Nobody's questioning whether or not your child still has dyslexia.Gretchen: Here's another one, which maybe has to do with prior written notice, our friend PWN. Let me read it to you, Amanda. "My son was recently evaluated by the school psychologist and a special education teacher at school. I have a meeting with the evaluation eligibility team next week to discuss his assessment results. Am I entitled to get the results before the meeting?"Amanda: Oh, that's a really good question, because I think it comes up a lot. It does go back to prior written notice and it goes back to the rights that Andrew talked about when we talked about the rights under IDEA. And what IDEA, the federal law, says is that you have the right to see those evaluation results three business days prior to the meeting. That's really specific, right? But I think the word in there is "see," because I think that's important. Most of the time, if you request them, the school will send you a copy of the report so you can look at it ahead of time, and it's a good idea to have it so you can make notes and you can see where you have questions, and those kinds of things.And some schools will even send that report without being asked, so that's great. But knowing that the law says you get to see that report three business days before is important because, in some cases, what that means is you may have to go into the school, sit down in a conference room or something like that, and look over the report and not have a copy to take home. But you do have the right to see it before, so you're not going into that meeting without having any information in front of you.Gretchen: All right. That was a lot. We covered a lot of ground. Any last thoughts?Amanda: It was a lot. I want to note a few things. First of all, you do not need to go into a meeting armed with all of this information. You just need to know that you're entitled to everything that's going on with — and have some say in — your child's education program.Secondly, you are not alone. If you are worried about your child having an IEP, 14 percent of all students in kindergarten through 12th grade have an IEP. That's a lot of kids. And, lastly, at Understood we have so many excellent resources to help you navigate all of this. So, you don't need to remember today; you can always go to Understood and look at some of that information.Gretchen: Absolutely. To get started, just take a look at the show notes for this episode in your podcast app or at understood.org/podcast/init.Amanda: All right, parents? I know this can feel really overwhelming, but you've got it. And we're here to help.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network. Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it.Gretchen: Share it with the parents you know. Amanda: Share it with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently and is getting an IEP.Gretchen: Or just send a link to your child's teacher. Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need.Gretchen: Go to u.org/init and find resources from every episode.Amanda: That's the letter U, as in Understood dot O R G slash in it. You can also email us at init@understood.org. We would love to hear from you.Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. Amanda: “In It” is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
School discipline rights for kids with IEPs and 504 plans
All students have to follow school rules. That includes students with IEPs and 504 plans. And when students break rules, schools have the authority to discipline them. There are different types of school discipline. But no matter which type the school uses, students have some basic rights: They have the right to know beforehand what the rules are.They have the right to challenge accusations and prove innocence.In some states, students who are suspended have the right to instruction at home.Students with IEPs and 504 plans have extra protections under federal law. These rights aren’t an excuse for breaking rules. They simply help everyone understand the cause. They also require schools to try to reduce and prevent misbehavior.The protections are complicated. They cover two main areas:When a child is removed from school, which prevents the child from receiving services. This is called a change in placement.When a child’s misbehavior is caused by a disability. That includes a learning disability or ADHD. This is called manifestation.Knowing about school discipline is important. But the prime goal for parents and schools is to prevent misbehavior. Every public school has a code of conduct on its website or printed out. Go over it with your child so you both know the rules, and the consequences for breaking them.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!Inattentive ADHD: A freelance writer shares her journey to diagnosis
Hanna Brooks Olsen is a freelance writer. She doesn’t fit the ADHD stereotype, but soon saw a connection between it and her mental health diagnoses. Hanna Brooks Olsen freelance writer ADHD. Coming ADHD diagnosis long journey. Like many, Hanna thought ADHD purely hyperactivity, didn’t fit description. learned inattentive aspect ADHD, saw connection life. realized ADHD symptoms intertwined bipolar disorder, anxiety, eating disorder. As freelance writer, Hanna all — editing nonprofit newsletters writing tweets. didn’t set become jack-of-all-trades writer. Like many college graduates, wanted earn enough money pay rent student loans. working odd jobs, Hanna discovered could use skills time loves: write.Related resourcesWhy people ADHD self-medicate — including me, Hanna Brooks OlsenADHD eating disordersADHD girlsEpisode transcriptEleni: Hi, everyone. It's Eleni. begin episode, wanted let know guest Hanna talked ADHD eating disorders, well Hanna's past drug use. issues ADHD show together may think. Hanna's story isn't one like this. hope enjoy conversation. Hanna: He's like, "What know ADHD?" like, "Very little. know little. don't know. don't that." like, I'm hyperactive. I'm hyperactive person. I'm actually fairly stagnant. starts running things. like, "Oh, yeah. OK, then." realized workarounds I'd using career life long like, oh, makes sense. scans. Eleni: Understood Podcast Network, "How'd Get Job?!," podcast explores unique often unexpected career paths people learning thinking differences. name Eleni Matheou, I'm user researcher Understood. means spend lot time thinking find jobs love reflect learn are. I'll host. next guest, Hanna Brooks Olsen, freelance writer. writes everything tweets politicians reported articles essays journey mental health ADHD. Growing low-income household, Hanna didn't even know careers like existed. she's boss, contribute projects she's really passionate about, including ones tackle class labor rights. Welcome show, Hanna. Hanna: Thank you. I'm excited here. Eleni: know previous conversation mentioned grandmother doesn't understand do. let's dispel mystery now. would describe job 5-year-old way grandma might actually understand? Hanna: actually came life niece who's 5½. point asked like always working computer, always house. mom goes job she's dog groomer. like, "You don't go work?" like, "No, work is — it's computer. It's online I'm writer." don't know why, watching show watching. like, "Oh yeah, like journalist. Like, that's what — that's do." that's used really. day, like, "Oh yeah, journalist...." stopped goes, "Auntie Han, thought journalist." like," Great. Yes, good point. OK.". explain this? journalist. started radio public radio. print, worked alt weekly worked in, know, commercial news. sort went away. entire industry kind disappeared — least didn't keep needs local economy living. now — I'm writer. That's do. assign something need sound good communicate and, know, narrative structure, like, you, regardless sort industry is. I'm always trying find way use skills. I've worked local governments. I've worked campaigns candidates. worked think tank while. I'm sort like hired gun writer. get use journalism skills, use like policy issues. Eleni: mentioned growing small town. also grew pretty poor. want talk little bit influenced career choices ended up? Hanna: Yeah, would say it's small town — it's really not. grew Eugene, Oregon. much smaller lived there. it's, guess mid-size town. Although brother described suburb bigger city doesn't exist, like true dynamic. parents working class. Neither university degrees. sort like did. didn't see writing looked like job. didn't know anybody copywriter. didn't know anybody was, know, like digital strategist. didn't exist time. me, wanted go college get degree could immediately put career, could immediately make making money. even single period two weeks wasn't getting paycheck, that's it. Like I — live outside. Like that, know, safety net. financial resources stretch amount time. way grew going school always like, OK, going make work? Like, going get next step going get next week? always guiding me. Like, always decided things whether would able to, like, get paycheck. Eleni: Yeah. main driver career choices really living wage? Hanna: Yeah. Yeah. worked, know, minimum wage long. worked diners coffee shops bars. like janitor decent amount time. Like, just, like, took jobs, whatever jobs could take — also hoping point would able to, like, thing good loved amount money made sense. Eleni: Mm hmm. Hanna: Like, remember someone asked me, like, "Oh, what's dream job?" was, like, 21, like, "Oh, want work Stranger," alt weekly Seattle. like, "That's really much dream." like, "For me, is. Like that's exactly want do." couple years later, position offer job. salary literally would covered rent, let alone student debt still had. Or, know, food. so, lot inflection points like sort like decide thing wanted worth going make living two things completely divergent. Eleni: you're freelancer, feel structure supports financial goals? kind land that? Hanna: started freelancing full-time job OK. like job marketing. fine. started freelancing top that. make money also like figure area. got point enough doors open freelancer able like, OK, like quit. quit day job and, know, retain amount sanity like amount work unsustainable. remember first day full-time freelancer, getting pace, checking email phone, walking dog, like sitting couch day's worth work without commuting, without make small talk office, without interruptions day. like, oh, amazing. Like, great only, like, met needs, know, far workplace. also realized could control income way better. job marketing — remember we'd get called hands meetings CEO would like jumping around celebrating like, "Oh God, like, guys helped us make, like, much money" like, hyping corporate profits whatever. remember like, dog, made amount. Like, check's same, don't really know celebrate you. Like, cool. income literally nothing success failure company. sort moment like, I'm trying make money somebody else either. I'm freelancing, like get control rates, get control hours. say I'm time this, huge person, one ADHD. will — think lot people probably know relationship ADHD perfectionism. older I've gotten I've gotten this, actually time track say like, no. Like said, would four hours today. got four hours today. Every minute spend four hours either losing money I'm working another client making money making money. like ability cutthroat like been, like, incredible. Eleni: Totally. would love hear little bit diagnosis story. haven't actually really touched ADHD except mentioned. think get
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