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Videos: Real parents, tough topics
Guilt … frustration … confusion about your child’s future. As a parent or caregiver of a child who learns and thinks differently, you may have felt one (or all) of these emotions.In this video series, parents share their experiences. They describe how it affects their relationships, share hopes for the future, and offer advice for other families.Note: Click on the icon in the top left corner of the player to see the full list of videos in the series.
In ItThe real-world benefits of gaming for kids
Many kids and teens love to play video games. Are there benefits or risks to playing video games for kids who learn differently?Many kids and teens love to play videos games. But families often worry about the effects of gaming. How long should kids play for? Which games should they play? And are there benefits or risks to playing video games for kids who learn differently? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra get answers from digital play expert and child psychologist Dr. Randy Kulman. Listen in to hear Randy’s tips on how families can help kids maximize learning from popular video games — and transfer that learning to the real world. Plus, hear Randy’s thoughts on EndeavorRX, a prescription video game for kids with ADHD. Related resources6 surprising benefits of video games for kids How to choose video games and apps for your childLearning Works for Kids And check out Randy’s book: The Gaming Overload Workbook: A Teen's Guide to Balancing Screen Time, Video Games, and Real LifeEpisode transcript Amanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org. And I'm also a parent of kids who learn differently. Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. And this is "In It."Amanda: "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. On the show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. We offer perspective, stories, and advice for, from, and by people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other types of learning differences. Gretchen: Today we're talking about gaming — as in video gaming — and whether or not it can help our kids with some of those learning differences Amanda just mentioned.Amanda: And we're going to get into some exciting developments in the world of digital games that are specifically designed to help with ADHD.Gretchen: Joining us to talk about this is Dr. Randy Kulman. Randy is a child psychologist who's worked with children, teens, and families for over 30 years and is an expert on the use of digital technologies for improving thinking skills in kids.Amanda: Randy is also a writer. He's a speaker, and he's the founder and president of LearningWorks for Kids, which offers training, video game reviews, and learning resources to make digital games good for kids. Gretchen: He's based in Rhode Island — yay, my home state! And we're delighted to have him on the podcast today. Randy, welcome to "In It."Randy: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited about being here. Gretchen: So before we get into the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to gaming, I wonder if you could tell us a bit about your work. Who comes to see you in your practice and how does that tie into your work on digital tech and video games?Randy: So if I can, let me even give you a bit of history from before I started working with kids directly. I was an undergraduate at the University of Rochester.Amanda: My alma mater.Randy: Oh, I didn't know that. Well, I also had a chance to spend time with Dr. David Elkind, who is one of the leading developmental psychologists in the world. He was an incredible mentor. And his expertise is in children's play. And I've always been super interested in children's play. And back in the 1990s when I started my clinical practice, kids would come into my office, all these kids with ADHD and learning disabilities and to some degree spectrum disorders, but particularly the first two. And the parents would be talking about all the troubles that the kids have, all the difficulties they would have.And then, I started to notice, and then — back in the '90s is when some of the original console games were out. The Nintendo, the Atari was around, and the kids loved those games and technology. And I began hearing, even at that point: "My kid couldn't have ADHD. You should see how much they play with a video game. They can focus and concentrate on that fpr hours. In fact, I can't get them off of it." It really got me thinking about how can we use that — gaming — because one of the things I learned from Dr. Elkind was "Play is learning." This is how kids learn. How could we use that to help these kids? Fast-forwarding, I worked in my clinical practice. We started doing some stuff in the practice. We began using a game called RollerCoaster Tycoon in the early 2000s as a game to teach kids problem-solving. Basically we're doing group therapy, playing RollerCoaster Tycoon. I'm not sure how successful we were. I do remember one thing, that l=kids love to build roller coasters that would end in the middle of the year and people would die falling from the roller coaster. And they were good at it.And by the way, that uses a lot of planning. You have to use some planning skills. You have to be a little bit flexible in terms of how you design it. You have to do a bunch of things. So they were using the skills. And that's sort of where we got going. At some point, shortly thereafter, we developed our LearningWorksforKids.com website that was designed to essentially help parents understand how gaming might help their kids — to find games that practice some of these executive functioning skills and what they could do about it. Gretchen: I'm wondering, before we move on from your history, Randy, do you play games?Randy: So, whenever I'm giving talks, one of the first things I say is: Here's my disclaimer. I am not a gamer. I'm really interested in children's play. And that's really kind of my focus is. And what I'm really interested in is how do we make children's play into real learning? Because if you think about this, many of these kids that we see with learning disabilities and ADHD who play a lot of video games — and perhaps they're almost drawn to those games because it's something that they're good at. It's something that makes them feel good when they're paying attention. It feels good to pay attention, to be really focused, to be in the flow. But if gaming was so good for those kids, why are they coming to my office? Why aren't they learning all these skills? Why is that not happening from playing those games? And I think that that's kind of an important question to take a look at and to determine: can we leverage or use those games to help these kids.Amanda: There's been sort of a lot of buzz in the, well, in the circles that we inhabit, right? About this game called EndeavorRX. And it's that FDA-approved treatment for ADHD. Can you tell us about EndeavorRX, what you know about it, and who's supposed to use it, who can prescribe it and how it works?Randy: So, Endeavor is really designed to improve focusing skills and control of focus. And it's essentially a game that uses sensory and motor feedback to help the kids improve their attention — that challenges them to use those skills. I would say that we're still in the infancy with Endeavor. Another game that I think is really good is called Mightier. Now, if I could say one thing that I think is super important about this stuff, is Endeavor and Mightier, and there are other ones out there as well, but those two games in particular start off from the premise of "Let's make this fun." Because if you don't make it fun, the kids aren't going to do what they need to do. I mean, you learn because you pay attention and you focus. If you don't pay attention, you can't learn. You can't remember. And both of these companies started off with game developers and they said, how do we make fun, engaging games? Because that's what they're competing against to keep kids' attention. You got to make this fun because otherwise it's not gonna matter.Gretchen: Right. Kids will feel like it's meant to teach something rather than "I'm going to play" — and learn at the same time — if it's not fun. Randy: Yeah. Well, I think that's part of it. Although maybe I have a little bit more faith in kids in the sense of, we can say to them, this is fun and you're going to learn, OK? What we're trying to do at LearningWorks for Kids is we try to make games digitally nutritious. You can make healthy things into something good. And I think you can tell kids that. In fact, I actually believe that that's probably one of the things that we don't do well enough is that part of helping kids to improve these skills — is to work on the metacognitive component. To think about what they're doing in a game, then think about how that might help them in the real world, too. That's kind of the premise of what I do with all of our LearningWorks materials. We basically use one simple ditty. We say you need to be able to detect, reflect, connect. So you have to identify a skill, think about that skill, and then connect it to the real world. And so I think we can tell kids, when it comes to, for example, Mightier or Endeavor, the kids know, you know, Endeavor is being prescribed. "My pediatrician or a psychiatrist is prescribing it for me," but this is good medicine. This is the kind of medicine you want to take, if you will.Amanda: I'm wondering a little bit about non-prescription video games. So like, thinking about popular ones like Minecraft and Fortnite and Roblox, and that's about where I can land, because I don't know any of the names of the other ones. Are there any that stand out to you as being really good for that metacognitive, that thinking about thinking for kids who learn differently?Randy: Absolutely. It's funny that you mentioned that. So Minecraft, Roblox, another one that's pretty popular now is called Animal Crossing. Those are three of the main games where we kind of use that to teach kids these skills while we're playing the games. One of the concerns that I have about video gaming and kids is that the kids don't play the game and immediately generalize what they've learned in the game to the real world. And that's the key for learning any place. I mean, if you go to a classroom and the teacher teaches you some math facts, but you can't go and measure something when you leave the classroom or you can't apply it in some ways, it's not that helpful.It's it's, this is really all about generalization. It's, you know, how do you learn something in one setting and apply it to another setting? It's really the key to it. And the way that oftentimes happens is that people work to teach kids. What goes on when it comes to video games — and Amanda, I'm going to pick on you for a minute, OK?Amanda: Absolutely. Randy: You sure? I don't know if you'll talk to me after this, OK? How old are your kids? Can I ask that on a podcast? Amanda: Oh yeah — 25, 19, and 11.Randy: OK. So first of all, you're too young for a 25-year-old. OK. Amanda: I'm going to talk to you again for sure.Randy: So let's put that out on the table, OK? But the 11-year-old, OK? I would say to you that it's important for you to play some of those games with your 11-year-old or sit with — is it a boy or a girl?Amanda: He's a boy. He has ADHD. I do sit with him and he tells me all about what he's doing.Randy: Excellent. Then I'm wrong, because by getting him to tell you what he's doing is really also an opportunity for you to help with that metacognitive process — to kind of think about that stuff.And I think that what's happened with video games in particular, is that, you know, a certain generation of parents, maybe the next generation that's coming out will do this, but an older generation didn't play the games cause they didn't know the games. The kids were the experts in the games. They kind of stayed away from that.I mean, when my kids were growing up, I coached him in baseball. I talked to them about baseball. We would do that kind of stuff. If you played board games, you would do that kind of stuff. That's traditional parenting is sort of teaching kids. If they get frustrated after losing a game, you talk to them about that.But I think when it comes to video games that parents have been far less involved. Now some of that is because of the nature of video games and sitting, staring at a screen. But I think that that's become one of the reasons that kids don't learn so much though, because we don't have parents engaged and involved.Amanda: Well, I will say though, that it took me a while to realize that what he wanted me to do was to listen to him, talk it through, right? And I know a lot of parents will say to me, like, I don't understand why they're telling me everything that's going on in the game as they're doing it. It took me a while to read, realize he wants feedback. He's looking to figure out, like, what do I think of this? What, you know, what — he's into, like a lot of the LEGO city games where he builds the things and then he, you know, navigates them and he'll say, you know, do you think this will work? Or do you think this won't work? And, you know, I realized he wasn't just saying it to talk out loud. But I think that's such an important thing is to realize that you don't have to play it to be engaged with them. Gretchen: Yeah. Randy, you know, since Understood supports people who learn and think differently, we want to ask some questions about specific learning challenges and how games might help — or might make them worse. So I think Amanda is cuing up the first question.Amanda: You know, I think I may have already asked, but I'm going to ask it a different way. Those games like Minecraft and Roblox and Animal Crossing, do they have a way of supporting visual-spatial planning, that ability to look at things, understand where they fit in space, and that kind of thing? Cause I know that that's something that parents worry about when they talk to us. Is this helping or not helping?Randy: I'm not a hundred percent convinced that there's any great research out there to say that. However, I also have no doubt whatsoever that that's what's going on. Because I mean, you know, some people have referred to Minecraft as LEGOs on steroids, if you will.And I can tell you from thousands of interviews, when I see kids who have visual-spatial strengths at least, if I say to the parents, you know, after I'm going over a testing evaluation kind of information with them, and I say, oh, your child's got really strong visual-spatial skills. I'll say, does he or she like playing with LEGOs?And the answer is yes, yes, yes, almost always. And the kids who struggle with that don't do as well, OK? Now what happens is, again, like anything else, you avoid things that you're not as good at, but I think that because some of these things are a little bit more engaging, it does offer that opportunity for kids to practice some of those skills that they might struggle with otherwise.And certainly Minecraft is designed like that and there's lots and lots of other building games. One of the games that a lot of the kids that we see and we've actually done some classes on it, was called Terraria. They like that game as well. So there's a lot of those games where they're, they're building work things in the world and developing that and they have to think it out.Gretchen: So what about kids who get stuck or perseverate? Are there games that can be either helpful or harmful for that?Randy: Both. So, I mean, the most common thing that I hear from parents when they're complaining about their kids' video games is that they get stuck and they won't get off the game. Now it's interesting. Some of the research on kids with ADHD going back into the mid 2000, 2005, 2010, those years, suggested that kids who don't have attention problems are far more likely to give up playing and get done when their parents tell them to, whereas compared to about 90% of kids with ADHD struggle with that. So they are far more likely to get stuck in terms of the transitions. However, it's an incredible opportunity to teach flexibility, because almost by nature, any of the good video games require that you sort of die or you lose a life, or you kind of have to go back to the beginning and you have to then use a different strategy to be successful.That's how the games teach you — the good games teach you how to play the game not by giving you a set of instructions. Like you can't go get a set of instructions and say, OK, how do you play this video game? You just play it. And you say, oh, that didn't work. I got to do something differently. Now do the kids take that and do they internalize that? Some do. Many don't. Could we help some of those who aren't doing it to internalize that? That's our belief at LearningWorks. You know, we really think that that's one of the things that parents should be doing is they should be saying, well, what'd you do then? I know you got frustrated last week with something. Did you get past that? Yeah. Well, what did you do? And it's really an opportunity to teach kids. And then by the way, then the real thing we have to do is say, "And how can you do that in the real world? See if you can kind of connect that to something in the real world." So, I don't know if I answered your question.Gretchen: You did. And the fact that you're saying perhaps these games can help with things like confidence and perseverance, but you have to be talking about it and think of a way to pull it out of the game, right? Amanda: Well, and the sentence starters matter too, right? Like what you're giving us, Randy, as some of those questions that parents can ask that they may not think about asking. And I think that makes a big difference too. One of the things that I know a lot of teenagers — my older son, who is a teenager, he's very much into these MMOGs, right? The massively multiplayer online games. I worry that it makes him more socially isolated, but I'm wondering if I'm wrong and it's actually supporting his social skills.Randy: Oh man. I'm so glad you asked because I know all the answers — not. So here's my take on that, is that it's an opportunity to socialize in a different way. And keep in mind, look how we're socializing right now in some ways, OK? And in the future, that's going to be part of socialization. I love to encourage kids who are doing that kind of stuff to do it with kids that are local — to be playing those games with kids who are in their high schools, kids who they're going to see in some other setting, even if it's just a couple of them.I think that that makes a world of difference because now they have someone they could sit with at lunch and they can talk about the same thing they were talking about when they were online. So to the degree that you can make that happen. There are also a lot of skills that kids learn in terms of leadership skills. Harvard Business Review did an incredible study on people who were World of Warcraft players and found that the people who were Guild leaders there were actually better trained to become business leaders than people who went and got their MBAs. So I do think that's the case, but it also never then helps the kids sort of overcome that face-to-face sort of anxiety issues and things like that. And I would say to you that probably when it comes to gaming in general, the most important part of thinking about this stuff is to think about it from the perspective of balance. The thing that I am proudest of in terms of all the stuff I've written about and developed is this concept of what I call a play diet. What's a healthy play diet in today's world, OK? And a healthy play diet in today's world includes certainly a lot of physical play, being outside, exercising, social play, doing stuff with other people, opportunities for unstructured or creative play.But also, you need to have digital play in there. If you don't, it's actually problematic. There's been a series of studies by a guy by the name of Andrew Przybylski and a few other people that basically says playing an hour of video games a day is probably pretty healthy for you. Playing three hours or more is probably pretty unhealthy for you. But maybe even more fascinating is not playing at all is pretty unhealthy for you as well, because it's how kids connect. So, if that's all your child does, that's probably not healthy because it's just not balanced. Gretchen: So, during the pandemic, I know a lot of kids turned to video games. And my 11-year-old daughter did, and it was a way for her to socialize because she'd be chatting with her friends, sometimes separately on like a hangout thread while they're playing or sometimes in the game.But she was anxious about the world, right? Lots of kids were at that time. And the game started making her more anxious because she couldn't stop thinking about, well, are my friends on, am I missing it? Oh, are they earning more points? Oh, how can I get this token? Oh, wait Mom, I need money. I want to buy this thing. So, what do you say about kids with anxiety and games? How do those two go together?Randy: Yeah, the fear of missing out is huge. And actually I would connect that less to gaming and more to the social media component of it as well. That, that social part, where that's really a remarkable area if you think about it. I see more 8-, 9-, 10-year-old girls who are in the kinds of things that we used to see with teenagers in terms of their peers and the social kinds of stresses and the clicks and feeling removed from that. So, yeah. And you're absolutely right too. When you look at the data on anxiety, in terms of what we've seen during COVID compared to pre-COVID, it's crazy. I think I saw something recently, the data was something like 41% of teens reported some signs of anxiety during COVID compared to typically about 11%. And I think part of that is also how do we help kids with anxiety in general? And part of that is, again, I'll go back to the healthy play diet. Kids with anxiety need to be exercising. They need to be doing other things. Cause I just think sometimes, think about treating anxiety solely as putting somebody in therapy and maybe give them medication. That's not the long view approach to that. Yeah.Gretchen: Maybe games that make you get up and move.Amanda: Dance Dance Revolution.Randy: Well, yeah, there aren't as many of those as they used to be, but there are those, and I think we're going to see more and more of that with virtual reality. Cause that's kind of the next phase of what's going to go on with gaming. And with virtual reality, I mean, you could really be boxing and you can do all kinds of movement. I'm waiting for a really good tennis game so I can start playing. Cause then I'll be a gamer. I keep looking all the time for a new game that is realistic tennis so I can go in my basement — instead of getting on my exercise bike and just peddling, I'm actually kind of moving and doing things.Amanda: Randy, I'm going to ask you another question — knowing this is a question I'm sure you get a lot and that the answer is nuanced. Are there games out there that you think we should really limit kids' exposure to?Randy: Well, I do not like violent video games and that's part of me personally, but I also think that if we can assume that you can learn something from playing video games that's positive, might we assume that she could learn some negative things. Now the data does not say that you play violent video games and you'll become violent. But I do think it can desensitize kids. And I do think that that can have a negative impact upon relationships. Maybe some of why some of the meanness that's in society nowadays could be related to it. I don't know. That's a stretch. So, I don't know if I want to be quoted on that one. But the bigger piece to that, though, is a lot of younger kids. I can't tell you how many 5- and 6-year-olds I have who are playing Fortnite. And normally I don't tell parents what to do, OK? I try very hard to kind of work with them. But I very clearly will say to them, "I really don't think that your 6-year-olds should be playing Fortnite. It's a very violent game." And probably this is my being a non-gamer is there are probably games that if I really knew about in more detail, I would kind of like really be saying to you, no, no, no to these. But, but I'm guessing that those games are fitting into violence or racism, sexism, those kinds of things.I'm not as familiar with those kinds of games. I know they're out there. So like the Call of Duty games, for example. They're really exciting for the kids. They love playing them. And I think if a teenager wants to play them with their friend after school, that's probably fine. They're old enough also to know the difference between fantasy and reality. And the kids who don't, they're going to have problems wherever they're at.Gretchen: So let's look ahead a little. Let's look into your crystal ball, Randy. You know, what do you see in the future in terms of how we're going to think about the role of digital games in our kids' development and how we design them? Randy: Well, let me veer off for a second, OK, if I can. I think that in many ways, a smartphone could be a person with ADHD's best friend. If it's used properly. One of the things that I'm very, very interested in is kids who struggle with writing. I am such a big believer that we are doing a horrible job of teaching kids how to use dictation skills. They're talking all the time, whether they're online talking to their friends or whether they're talking to Siri, everything's going to be like that. They need to learn how to use dictation for example. So part of the future, I think, is going to be that we start to accept this as just kind of what it is. We do a lot of stuff at LearningWorks about finding apps that support weak executive functioning skills. And I think that all these technologies can do that and in a much easier fashion than some of the video games. Cause I think the video game piece is a little bit more indirect. I look at it like, well, you can walk to school and it's three miles away. It takes you an hour. You can ride your bike to school and it's three miles away and it takes you 15 minutes. Why do we not use technologies to help these kids? Especially — I have another particular interest with kids with slow processing speed. I'm actually working on a book on that because there's a lot of video games out there that actually can help a little bit with that. But there's a lot of technologies that can help a lot with that. So those are some of the things I think we're going to be moving towards in the future.Amanda: Well, I mean, this has just been such a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Randy. I really appreciate it. Gretchen: Really interesting. I've learned a lot, you know, just for my own knowledge at home, but also for the world and for our kids. So thank you so much.Randy: Well, you're quite welcome. This is really fun for me. This is kind of what I really enjoy doing.Gretchen: Dr. Randy Coleman is the author of a bunch of books, including most recently "The Gaming Overload Workbook: A Teen's Guide to Balancing Screen Time, Video Games, and Real Life." To find out more about Randy's work on maximizing children's learning from popular video games and interactive digital media go to LearningWorksforKids.com.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Gretchen: Share it with the parents you knowAmanda: Share with somebody else who might have a child who learns differently.Gretchen: Or just send a link to your child's teacher.Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need.Gretchen: Go to u.org/init to find resources from every episode.Amanda: That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash in it. And please share your thoughts. Email us at init@understood.org. We'd love to hear from you.Gretchen: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are production directors. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
Videos about dyslexia
Are you looking for basic information about dyslexia? Or maybe an inspiring story? You’ll find both in this collection of dyslexia videos. Learn about dyslexia from leading experts in the field. Or hear from parents, kids, and famous people who’ve experienced this reading issue firsthand.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!An actor and YouTuber with ADHD talks about social media burnout
Eric Tabach grew up with ADHD in Russia. He talks about his life as an actor and YouTuber, and how social media burnout led to a new focus: Ukraine. Eric Tabach, YouTube host producer channel Yes Theory, went Ukraine, didn’t want create video. wanted make difference war. Eric grew ADHD Ukrainian family Russia. child, endless energy racing mind led theater making YouTube videos home. Eventually, family moved United States, acted movies. started college dropped out. Social media calling. became mastermind behind huge viral videos Buzzfeed, well YouTube Instagram channels. burned out, came crashing down.In episode, Eric talks life actor YouTuber ADHD. shares need external validation led months burnout found new focus, part helping people Ukraine. Listen learn Eric’s wild ride. get advice making YouTube social media.Related resourcesVideo: Ukrainian Border (Yes Theory)Team Ukraine Love (an organization co-founded Eric)ADHD creativityVideo: Actor Bex Taylor-Klaus embracing ADHDEpisode transcriptEric: mean, it's crazy didn't complete college zero part thought going college even option. mean, first immediate family go college. Usually people like, "I'm first go." Like, first drop out.Eleni: Understood Podcast Network, "How'd Get Job?!," podcast explores unique often unexpected career paths people learning thinking differences. name Eleni Matheou, I'm user researcher Understood. means spend lot time thinking find jobs love reflect learn are. I'll host.In recent Lego poll, nearly 30 percent young kids said wanted YouTuber grow up. Well, today I've invited YouTuber ADHD onto show share career like. Eric Tabach popular YouTuber, social influencer, actor, comedian. 300,000 followers 20 million views YouTube 600,000 followers Instagram. creative mind behind dozens viral videos Buzzfeed host producer YouTube channel Yes Theory. also co-hosts hilarious successful podcast mom acted TV shows like "Law Order," you'll seeing projects soon. Welcome show, Eric.Eric: Thank much. I'm excited.Eleni: people lot crazy stuff YouTube. Rumor recently got back Poland potentially extract father Ukraine. would love hear you're able talk it..Eric: hundred percent. Yeah. So, work guys YouTube called Yes Theory, maybe year ago stopped working YouTube channel stopped collaborating lot YouTubers 'cause I, started negative relationship space. didn't want absurd content. And, guys, Yes Theory, felt like elevated things, they've made lot documentary films like. everything felt positive smart clever. I've working year, it's awesome. then, Hawaii shooting episode them. in, know, luxury, exotic beauty. obviously everything happened Ukraine father Kiev, birthday. celebrating started bombing night, asleep.And, PTSD cause navy first thought maybe episode something. friends woke house well. like, "No, real, war started," couldn't believe it. moment heard — mom's Kiev, roots Ukrainian dad born Moscow, he's technically Russia now, Soviet Union, identify Ukrainian. And, um, moment heard it, Yes Theory started talking felt like needed go. actually wanted go Ukraine happened. wanted go January piece beautiful country is, stresses brink war. going video literally called "This Country Brink War." then, obviously, actually invaded nobody thought going happen. immediately started conversations that's — didn't want sort YouTuber went like, "Oh, get content. Like, let's go get good content. Let's like go war." wanted something actually meaningful. dad called us said, like, "You guys come. It's important coverage this, there's lot actually help." immediately — went straight Hawaii, landed L.A., took flight immediately Poland. got there, zero plan, really tried gauge necessary done there.And didn't want cross border sake crossing border, nuisance. realized would take days get back would taking spots line weren't prepared professional.So, ended coming plan basically raise insane amount funds use money immediately ground. 'Cause saw lot people wanted support things immediately used rather donating big charities. saw needed help refugees get people out.So bought vans buses drivers going getting women children. helped set like refugee centers Warsaw we're helping people train stations, feeding families, helping get flights, helping find foster families, getting phones whoever way communicate left stuff.So team like, don't know, like, don't know exactly number, it's like 25 volunteers constantly circulating community, Yes Theory community, coming volunteering working office Warsaw continuing use money ground right now. raised like $500,000, uh, mean 500,000 euros. it's crazy like, really surreal see know my, dad like, know, joke this, was, like hosting refugee got him, know. He's dad, one backpack back. left everything there. didn't change clothes ever. could. That's thing, that's thing laugh at. Like, could go buy clothes, didn't, just, busy like livestreaming family, friends, audience explain what's going on, give guidance. He's helping organize lot military aid. It's crazy see good job Poland's doing. hope we, — Ukraine gets supportEleni: Yeah. Wow. Well, thank sharing that. I'm sure started pursuing career, never would imagined would taken you, like, there, right?Eric: It's crazy. Never imagined could get many people want support something fly — mean, there's one thing fan message like stuff, fan stop street. people follow stuff, realize people watch certain character able buy ticket fly Poland, go help stop life. Like, surreal see community we've built really another level.Eleni: Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations that.Eric: Thank you. Thank you.Eleni: So, know, talk ADHD.Eric: Yeah.Eleni: think, know, background also like super relevant, would love hear — know grew Russia, challenges came school perhaps related ADHD challenges. So, know, I'd love to, like, hear start off.Eric: Yeah. ADHD Russia don't go together. Oh, it's crazy talk about, realize grew Russia everything that's going on, yeah, severe energy, extreme energy kid, couldn't focus all. would run around classroom. would literally stand head. chance got, like family, would sit watch movie, would head. sounds like exaggeration, wasn't. would, like breakdance. way like, one spot would upside down. constantly needed stimulation, started creating world bedroom. would talk people, like imaginary people, create scenarios performances stuff. mom got pretty concerned didn't understand normal, older sister never that. took a, I'm pretty sure like Russian doctor ended saying might schizophrenic. family freaked out. dad never gets scared, really nervous. like, "How even diagnosis age?" ended taking different doctor, American doctor, double-check. like, "No, son's creative. Enroll theater." that's discovered arts way express healthy way.And teachers started allow use creative w
Videos about ADHD
Are you looking to learn more about ADHD? Or maybe you’re looking for an inspiring story to share with your child. Here, learn from our experts and watch videos of famous people, parents, and kids talking about their struggles with ADHD.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!ADHD masking: Breaking free and going viral
Aideé Chávez Frescas has ADHD, and is a senior social media manager at Understood. Her posts help end stigma and show others they’re not alone. Aideé Chávez Frescas is a senior social media manager at Understood. She also has ADHD and creates her own social media content that has gone viral again and again. She shares about her life as a Mexican person living in the United States, and the intersection of being Latina and having ADHD. Her videos and posts help end stigma and show others they’re not alone. Understood is the first workplace where Aideé has been open about her ADHD. She felt comfortable disclosing because of Understood’s mission to help people who learn and think differently thrive. In the past, she relied on masking her symptoms, toning her energy and personality down to fit into spaces. Now, Aideé is proud to be herself at work. And she encourages her team to do the same. Hear how Aideé thought masking her ADHD was code-switching at first — plus her formula for going viral. Related resourcesAidee’s personal Instagram account, and her ADHD Instagram account @totallyadhd_Understood’s Instagram accountADHD runs in the family (Michelle’s story)Episode transcriptAideé: I stopped being afraid and pretending. I didn't realize how much pretending I was doing through my day or even with friends. I couldn't do me because I was just so worried that my ADHD was going to interrupt somebody. I was so exhausted too. I was so tired.Eleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host.Aideé Chávez Frescas knows how to go viral. We work together here at Understood, where she creates content as the senior social media manager. She has ADHD, and she manages her own team who she encourages to be themselves at work. Since Understood is an organization that works to shape the world for people with learning and thinking differences, we're very understanding and open here about neurodiversity, which is not the usual working environment, as we've heard on the show again and again. Aideé and I talk more about this and how it's changed how we work.Welcome, Aideé, to the Understood podcast studio. Two Understood employees in the Understood podcast room.Aideé: That sounded so professional. Thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited to be here.Eleni: I'm so excited that you are here and we are chatting. One part of your story I think is really interesting is, you know, social media is a big part of your life, both in your day job and then also outside of work. So I thought that we can start just maybe with a quick description of what you do and Understood. And then also how you apply some of your skills outside of work too.Aideé: I'm a senior social media manager here at Understood, and I didn't become a social media manager by accident. It has always been easy for me. I'm always an early adopter. So I started with social media and I didn't really understand, because social media, like 10 years ago, is not what it is today. So I didn't really understand that it could be a job. I just knew that it made me happy and I wanted to do something with this.And yeah, when you do something every day, it makes you happy, you become really good at it. And it becomes part of your nature almost. I joke about it all the time and I say, look, I can make you viral if you want to be viral. It sounds cocky, but it's not cocky because I just know the formula so well. I can do it for brands and for people.Eleni: What were the skills that you learned in your personal life that you then applied to your work?Aideé: I remember the first time that I had a brand reaching out to me for me to do their socials, and I didn't know I could charge. So I was like, OK, yeah, I'd do it, of course. And then they're like, "How much do you charge?" And I'm like "What? You pay?"Eleni: I just do this for fun.Aideé: Yeah, I was, I was so in shock. And then from that I started, like, getting more clients and I had, like, clients. I had great success with the brands. And so I was able to start charging a little bit more money. It was an easy transition. It was never something that I questioned. It was one day I just woke up and I was like, OK, I'm quitting my job. This is what I'm doing now.Eleni: That's super cool. I actually didn't know that. There's a couple of things I want to follow up on. First of all, you said like social media has changed a lot in the last 10 years, and it seems to be like a pretty fast-paced industry to work in. I'm curious how you feel it might be related to like how your brain works and why that might be suited to you. And, you know, yeah, this felt so natural and easy for you.Aideé: No, it is definitely related. I can write a strategy for socials today and I wake up tomorrow and the whole strategy goes to trash because social media changed completely and I cannot do anything about it — it's just how it is. And I love that. I love that about it because I'm always learning and I'm always doing something else. It's never boring for me. Every day, there's something new, and that gets me going.So if I wasn't doing this, right, I know my ADHD — it would just paralyze itself, basically. I would be in this place where I would not be able to take action, because that's how my ADHD works. That's how she goes — or he or it, whatever. It goes to that place of not taking action and overthinking everything.So because my job is already moving so fast, I have to take action so fast, I cannot think about it. I cannot sit down and take a whole week to make a decision. So it's constantly knowing and trusting your gut and then going after that.Eleni: Yeah, it's like a positive cycle. You haven't actually said what you're known for on Instagram or on TikTok.Aideé: Yeah. So for my Instagram, I transitioned to just like lifestyle. And then I now do me. It's like something that I would post for my parents to see now for Instagram. And then for TikTok, I started the account just sharing about my experience as a Mexican person in America, in New York. And so I that's how I started. And then I transitioned to talking about ADHD.It's also like interesting because I didn't transition also to speak about ADHD by accident. It was also what the audience wanted to hear from me. I'm very good about doing something and realizing what somebody wants out of it, and then that's what I give. I don't have to do the other stuff. I can open up another channel and do that on the other channel.But yeah, I immediately knew the first time I shared something about ADHD, it was like viral. The next one viral, the next one viral, the next one — like it was like one thing after another one. And I was like, OK, this is it. This is what people want to hear from me.Eleni: So then what is it like working in a field that's so personal to you?Aideé: Yeah, I don't know the difference between personal and work. So, like, the values, like we speak about this all the time here in the organization. Like, what values do you have in the organization? And, like, my values are the same values. Like, my personal values are the same values that I have in the organization. I can't — I don't know the difference between the two.And so, like, when I come here, I bring my full self and I really can't separate the two. When I try to do that, it's just — I'm not happy, you know? And so I have to make sure that I stay strong on the things that I do in my personal life. If I'm like a kind human outside, I have to be extra kind. All of it has to match.Eleni: But then I imagine that Understood is a pretty unique place to work in terms of openness about ADHD. So how does this version now, the authentic version of yourself that you bring to work, how does that differ from the past and working in other organizations?Aideé: Yeah, this is the first time I have ever told my job that I have ADHD. And actually, before that video that I posted on TikTok, I had never told even my friends. Yeah, I was so worried about that video. I was so nervous before posting. I didn't want anybody to know. I also was worried that my family was going to see it and like offend somebody for whatever reason. I don't know. My ADHD has always been like me, myself, and I, and like together we don't — I didn't use to share anything.I know that because I shared that I have ADHD with the org, yeah, I can be myself finally. Like I can have the giggles for no real reason, because my ADHD is — have like a splash of energy and time. And I'm just happy. All that stuff, everybody understands.Here, I stopped being afraid and pretending. I didn't realize how much pretending I was doing through my day or even with friends and family. I would just sit in, like dinner table, and speak so slowly and try to be so professional all the time like this. Like I couldn't do me because I was just so worried that my ADHD was going to interrupt somebody. I was so exhausted too. I was so tired. I was so tired of pretending.Eleni: Yeah, because masking can be really exhausting.Aideé: Yeah. It was so tiring. And also a lot of my friends that I was worried about, they reached out to me as like, oh, by the way, my son has ADHD. Everybody was super, super extra supportive. It took my parents time to understand it — not because they didn't understand what ADHD is. It's just they didn't understand that I had it because they didn't see any signs. For them, this is me and that's who I was. So they don't see anything as a sign for ADHD.Eleni: Mmm. That's interesting.Aideé: Yeah. So that — it took them a long time. So I had to go through the signs with them. Yeah.Eleni: That's interesting though, because in a weird way that shows that they did have a level of full acceptance of who you are. They just didn't know why.Aideé: Yeah. And that was so beneficial. So beneficial for me when I was growing up because I was so stupidly confident. I was so weird and I was so fine with it. And that was the way my childhood — so happy. I remember like the way I dressed when I was little, the way that I did things. It was so weird, so strange. And I see pictures of me and I was like, I thought I was the coolest. I was like, so — my personality was so out and I was not so worried.I think when I went to college is when I started feeling that I needed to change and become more like mature, I guess, and serious. And I know — a lot of people would make comments how I interrupted them when I talk, you know. Then I started working in corporate America and I got a lot of feedback about how loud I was, how much I was laughing. And so like, I internalized all of that.Eleni: I had a thought when you were talking about, you know, your fear about what would happen if you came out and went viral. But then actually what happened was that people reached out. And I think it's interesting because we hear that a lot in research in terms of visibility, like how important it is. Because like once you see others that are like you, it does normalize it to an extent and you feel less alone in that experience. So it's cool that you could do that for others.Aideé: Yeah. And I think that also — I am not going to speak for the whole like Hispanic community or Mexican community, but I know what I know. And around my circle, I know it can be a taboo. Mental health. It's something that we are not accustomed to speak about it because it is shameful in a way. I mean, I don't know. I felt shame. I did. I didn't want to be different.Eleni: Yeah.Aideé: Yeah. I just didn't want my brain to not work the same way that everybody else's brain, because I didn't want people to think that I was stupid. My parents were like, why will you post this on social media? Like, they don't even have social media. Don't do this, because everybody's going to see it. Like it's OK that you have it, but like, let's keep it a secret.Eleni: Yeah. Definitely.Aideé: Yeah, I can see that it's something that it does affect them.Eleni: So one thing I wanted to ask you about: At Understood you manage a team, and we already talked about you being out about your differences. But I know in addition to you being open about your differences, a lot of your team is also open about theirs. I think that's kind of an interesting case study to think about in comparison to other organizations, because obviously it's unique in that way, right?Aideé: Yeah, my team is a team of four full-time employees. It's going to be five soon. And we have one contractor right now. And from the four, three have ADHD. Right? And we are open about it. So the dynamic is really interesting. We are so understanding of what we need. It also can feel — like if you're in a meeting with us and our team meeting on, we have it on Tuesdays and Tuesday mornings, you're going to be like, what is happening?I mean, we do follow some guidelines that we go through. I mean, every time we meet, we go through the same things. But before you know it, we start talking about like why apples are the color that they are. And then like, why like random, random stuff comes every single time. At the same time, we get the work done. And not only that, it's extremely successful because they are extremely creative and it doesn't stop. It's like the energy that this team has is like times 20. You know, like an idea happens today and it's done by next week. We are already implementing it so fast. They're so, so smart.And also it's hard for me — the part that is hard — because I have to also maintain the creativity. Channel that creativity. The best thing, too, about people that have ADHD because we always, constantly have many, many, many, many creative ideas. So if I say no, we can't do that because whatever reason, they're like, OK. There's never hard feelings. Because I know a lot of neurotypical people get really passionate about one idea and they think — .Eleni: They get attached to it.Aideé: Attached to it and they think that's it. But because we are like used to losing them all the time, because, you know, your brain goes so fast. So one day you have one idea and then like the next day, oh, what was I thinking? That was a great idea. Oh, I forgot. That's OK. You know, like, you move on really quickly. It's like, not a big deal. We're used to it.Eleni: Do you feel like you have learned more about yourself and your ADHD through working with others that are also open about it?Aideé: 100. Every time. It's a constant seeing yourself reflected in others and seeing your actions reflected in others. It's so good because your awareness grows.Eleni: Do you want to talk a little bit about what works for you at work and how you've kind of come up with coping strategies or tools or whatever it may be?Aideé: I learned how to cope with my ADHD without realizing I was coping with my ADHD. And so for the longest time, because I'm Mexican, I thought I was in good shape. I just was like, oh, at home I can be really loud. At work, I can't be really loud. I didn't really realize it was ADHD.But for me to be successful is always notes, I guess. I take lots of lots of notes. I'm so organized to the point that is crazy. Like you look at my Google drive and it's like chef's kiss, you know. It's so pretty, so organized. But like, but I have to. Otherwise, I would nod. I would not know how to find things. Like I have to be that extreme. And I'm constantly looking for ways of improving the process that we have at work. I'm always looking for ways of the team spending less time at work. Not that I don't want them to work, it's like just —Eleni: Efficiency.Aideé: Efficiency. Yeah, I had this conversation with the team member and he said yeah, I spend three days creating this spreadsheet every month. And I'm like, what? Three days? You're so creative. This is a spreadsheet. No, we're not doing this anymore. Like, I need you to be like bringing ideas and like, sharing those ideas. This is not where your time should be spent. And so we switched right away, and now it takes 45 minutes. Like little things like that. I'm like, always looking for that — that kind of ways of improving — .Eleni: It's part of problem-solving. We definitely had an episode where someone talked about spending a lot of time in their day job actually trying to figure out ways to not do the mundane things that didn't work for their brain. Like it was partly like, oh my God, this is so boring. I physically can't sit here and do this. Like, how do I make this more efficient in order for me and the person after me to not have to do this boring thing, you know?Aideé: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. You start making mistakes because it's boring. Your brain is tired, your brain doesn't care, especially when it's the same thing over and over and over again. So, yeah, I love that. I love that about my brain.Eleni: Yeah. That's so cool. Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. It was very fun.Aideé: Thank you so much. This is great.Eleni: You've been listening to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" from the Understood Podcast Network. The show is for you, so we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at thatjob@understood.org with your thoughts about the show. Or maybe you'd like to tell us how you got THAT job. We'd love to hear from you.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Also, one of our goals at Understood is to help change the workplace so everyone can thrive. Check out what we're up to at u.org/workplace. That's the letter U dot org slash workplace.Understood.org is a resource dedicated to help people who lead and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission."How'd You Get THAT job?!" is produced by Margie DeSantis and edited by Mary Mathis. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. And I'm your host, Eleni Matheou. Thank you for listening.
Teacher videos: 5 reasons why making your own videos can help with distance learning
You’ve probably used plenty of educational videos in your classroom in the past. But have you tried pre-recording your own videos for distance learning?Teacher-made videos can be a great way to support all students, especially the 1 in 5 students who learn and think differently. When you make your own videos, you can tailor the instruction to the needs of your students. You can also bring a personal connection to the online learning environment. Here are five reasons why you — and even your students — might create your own videos. 1. Make your written directions easier to understand with video.With distance learning, you may be relying on written directions more than ever. But many students find it hard to read lengthy instructions. For one, students who struggle with working memory may have trouble understanding a long series of instructions. To make assignment directions clearer and more digestible, make a short video to go along with them. Students will benefit from being able to replay the video and hear the directions more than once. If an assignment has many steps, you can make multiple short videos to break the directions into smaller parts. These videos will lighten the cognitive load and help students who have trouble with focus. In your videos, talk through the steps of the assignment. Make sure to model an example and share your thinking aloud — two important steps in explicit instruction. To show an example on screen while explaining it, you can make a screen capture video where you record your computer screen with a tool like Screencastify. Watch how Understood Teacher Fellow Lauren Jewett uses Screencastify for a math lesson. This can also be a great way to explain how to do an assignment.Written directions and video should share the same information. Make sure all videos include closed captioning and transcripts for accessibility, which is easy to do using YouTube or transcription tools like Otter.ai, voice typing in Google Docs, and Microsoft’s Dictation and OneNote.2. Use video to make your lessons more UDL-friendly.Making videos for your students doesn’t only help them understand written directions. Videos can also help them understand any part of your lessons, including the content.Planning lessons with Universal Design for Learning (UDL) helps reduce barriers to learning by offering multiple ways to engage. Making videos can help you offer students more ways to access the information. The same thing applies to teaching content. For example, you might offer three ways for students to engage in a new topic, like learning about gravity. You might allow students to choose to read an article about gravity, attend a live video lesson (synchronous), or watch a pre-recorded video lesson (asynchronous). The pre-recorded video, in particular, can remove barriers to learning in many ways, including:Students who need more processing time can pause and rewind the video.Students who benefit from repetition can watch it as many times as they want.Students can take notes as they wish at their own pace.Students who are deaf or hard of hearing can read the closed captioning.Students who benefit from being given notes can review a transcript. Notice how Understood Teacher Fellow TJ Thornton has enabled closed captioning (CC at the bottom right of the video screen) on their math video. Students can view a transcript by clicking the “more” menu (three dots) and then selecting “open transcript,” or read a transcript created using Otter.ai. Video can also give students multiple ways to represent their learning — a key part of UDL. In math, students can make a video to explain how they solved a problem instead of writing about it. Or they create a video of themselves reading a selection of text and orally demonstrating a literacy skill. You can explicitly teach students how to use tools like Seesaw and Flipgrid so they can make their own simple videos. 3. Make distance learning more equitable by pre-recording videos.Not all students and their families can access learning tools at every moment of the day. In that sense, live video can be a barrier to learning for some students, including those who learn and think differently and English language learners. Some of your students may be sharing devices, have limited or unstable internet access, or need to leave their homes to get connected. Other students may have responsibilities at home, like helping a sibling, which makes it hard for them to meet at designated times. Younger students may need the help of a family member to access online learning. They may not be able to join a live video session if there is no one available to help at that moment. When you record videos for students to watch on their own time, you make learning more equitable. Students can access the videos when and how they want to. Here are some best practices to consider:Give students at least a few days to watch the videos and complete related assignments. Make sure to schedule deadlines through the week (not just on Fridays), so students and families can watch them when they’re able, including on weekends.With students and families juggling more responsibilities, they may not be able to watch every video. Make it clear which videos are the highest priorities to watch and which might be optional.4. Build relationships with personalized video.Positive student-teacher relationships help students learn — especially during times of stress or trauma. If you’re teaching students at a distance, it may seem harder to form those relationships. You can build relationships through live class meetings, personalized emails, and phone calls. Adding personalized videos to this list gives students another option for connecting with you on their own time. Students can use video to connect with each other, too. Knowing your students’ strengths and growth areas helps you create personalized videos that meet your students where they are. For example, maybe you’ve noticed that some students need help with note-taking. You can provide strategy instruction by creating a video to model different ways to take notes. Here are some other ways to use pre-recorded video to build relationships: Whole class teacher-made videos: Morning announcements, daily messages, read-alouds, personal stories Personalized teacher-made videos: Individual check-in messages, feedback on specific assignments, effort-based or behavior-specific praise messages Student-made videos: Introduction videos at the start of the year, weekly share-outs, responses to other students’ work, answers to fun community-building questions These videos can help you build relationships with families, too. Parents and caregivers may appreciate being able to see how their child is learning, since it may be different from how they learned in the past. If family members want to help with an assignment, they’ll be able to watch the videos to see a model, hear your thinking, and maybe learn something new themselves.Watch the morning meeting video that Understood Teacher Fellow Lakrisha Howard created for her students and families to watch.5. Use video to provide accommodations.Providing accommodations during distance learning for students who have an Individualized Education Program (IEP) can be challenging. Video can help. For example, if a student has an accommodation to have a “designated reader” or hear instructions spoken aloud, your assignment videos can meet this need (while also benefiting all your students). Or, if an accommodation is for the student to be able to give responses in a preferred form (spoken or written), you can offer video responses as an option. Of course, making videos takes some time. But it can actually save you time in the long run as you don’t have to explain the directions or concepts multiple times. Once you start creating videos for your class, you may discover that you want to continue the practice even when you’re back in a physical classroom. Keep the production of these videos as short and simple as possible so they don’t become a burden to create or watch. There’s no need to make them polished. Be authentic and have fun. Keep reading:Follow these seven steps to make videos that are accessible and engaging. Read more about UDL best practices for videos.Explore best practices for online assignments.
The Opportunity GapSimone Biles and why role models are hard to find
She’s an Olympic champion, a Black woman, and an advocate for people with ADHD. So why don’t more kids of color know about Simone Biles? Simone Biles is the most decorated female gymnast in history. She’s also a Black woman and an advocate for people with ADHD. So why don’t more students of color know her story? Hosts Julian Saavedra and Marissa Wallace explore what being a role model means and why some stories rise up more than others. They talk about how shame and stigma prevent more people of color from talking about their challenges. The hosts also share thoughts on how parents and schools can help kids who learn and think differently find role models to look up to.Related resourcesRead what Simone Biles tweeted about ADHD.Check out Tupac Shakur’s poem, “The Rose That Grew From Concrete.”Watch videos about athletes who learn and think differently, like Olympian Michelle Carter and NFL player Lawrence Guy.Get tips on finding mentors for kids with learning and thinking differences. Episode transcriptJulian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us. In this episode, we're talking about Simone Biles and positive role models for kids of color who learn and think differently. Marissa, what up? How's your week? Marissa: Well, it's funny. I was actually able to walk Lincoln home from school today, and I told him that I'm going to talk to Uncle Julian tonight. He's like "Uncle Julian?" I'm like, "Yeah, remember him from Philadelphia? Uncle Julian?"Julian: Well tell the little guy I said hello. And my children both say hi to everybody. I'm really excited about this episode today because we're talking about a topic that I think is near and dear to both of us: the idea of role models and the idea of really lifting folks that our students and even us can be looking up to.So I'm excited because our producer, our amazing, intelligent, and stupendous producer who has a wealth of knowledge, Andrew Lee, he is going to share some research that he was able to do on Simone Biles to start off the show. So Andrew, tell us a little bit about Simone Biles, please. Andrew: Julian, you're like way too kind. But thank you for that intro. You know, when you gave me this assignment, I was thinking about Simone Biles, the gymnast, and I knew a little bit about that, about her Olympic background. And yes, she is considered the most accomplished female gymnast in the history of the sport, 32 Olympic and world championship medals. She has got like four moves named after her. What I found out when I did a little bit of research is that Simone is so much more than just a gymnast.In 2016, she started to really open up about her learning and thinking differences. That year I was reading that hackers published some of her medical records about ADHD. And she responded to them and she said, you know, having ADHD and taking medication for it is nothing that she was afraid to let people know. So now, you know, as I read some of the news articles about her, it really seems like she's charting this new course as an advocate for mental health.And this last summer Olympics, there was quite a few news articles about how she took a stand for mental health by withdrawing from competition. And this September, she actually testified in Congress about the abuses that she and other gymnasts experience in U.S. gymnastics. So, sometimes when you hear about like a famous sports star or, you know, a famous personality, you just think about their big accomplishments. And one of the things that I've found out is that she actually had quite a bit of trauma in her childhood, you know, as a foster child, that was a part of her experience. And also she faced a lot of bullying. It was just interesting to hear that beyond the sort of the medals and the jumps and the moves, there's so much more to her. So that was really interesting, Julian. Julian: There's just so many things we can say about Simone. And I think about the idea of a rose growing out of concrete, right? Where she has so many things that were struggles, but out of those struggles came this beautiful person that even now continues to deal with struggles.Yet she brings out the best in a lot of people around her. You know, I think that her story is really a great starting point to dive in, to talking about role models and kind of making sure that we give, give the flowers now while we can, that Simone is somebody that is with us presently and she's somebody that deserves our respect and admiration.So Marissa, tell me about your thoughts on Simone. What do you think? Marissa: Yeah. Well, first I appreciate your use of figurative language and just how you describe and talking about the rose from the crack, giving a shout-out to Tupac there. So I feel like I already know, I feel like you're already setting the stage for who she is, which is obviously so much more than a gymnast and knowing her experiences.And I do think that, this past summer, just how much she was in the news. And of course there's always two sides to every story and everyone has their opinion with Simone, but I don't think any of that takes away from her accomplishments. And I don't think any of that should take away from what she did overcome to get to the point where she's at.And I feel like that's the trajectory and that's kind of like the journey of a lot of role models. It's not just them evolving into those positions without having a life history — experiences that make them who they are. And I think that's an important piece of the conversation that I hope we can get into today. When we talk about our students, and we talk about those who face trauma, who face learning and thinking differences and might oftentimes feel alone or feel like they aren't going to be able to achieve because of that.Julian: Like the fact that she was able to talk openly at one of the highest, most important parts of her career. And she had the wherewithal to prioritize her mental health and then continue to openly discuss how she is somebody who lives with learning and thinking differences. I mean, talk about courage and really doing things for the greater good. Why is it so important to have folks out there doing this? Is it going to make an impact?Marissa: Yeah, I definitely think it helps when you have these people that are in these positions where we look up to them, but we don't always know how they got to that point. But I also think that there's a lot that is left hidden. And so if that part of who they are is hidden, it doesn't have that relatability. And I think that's the piece that makes role models, especially role models for some of our students who have thinking and learning differences, that missing piece is like, oh, well that person has achieved greatness, but they don't understand because they haven't struggled in school. or they haven't struggled with academics or behaviors like I have.So therefore, like they made it to that point because they don't have this, you know. They probably don't know Michael Jordan — he is an individual who has some learning differences and he has ADHD. And there's other athletes out there that have later on come out and expressed some of their challenges that they overcame to get to the place where they're at now.Julian: I'm going to something that you may disagree with, but I would venture to think that Simone's story is not as prevalent in our schools as it should be. And I would even guess that her role as a role model, even though like we, as adults are talking about her a lot, I don't feel like I hear my students talking about her unless we bring it up.Marissa: I agree. Julian: Unless it's something that is really made popular by social media or something to that effect. And I wonder why is her story not elevated everywhere and popularized everywhere.Marissa: It's surprising sometimes to hear who students do consider their role models, like who they are looking up to, especially for my middle school kids. So I work with primarily eighth graders. So a lot of our conversation is getting ready for high school. And then talking about what life after high school is going to look like and explaining that success can look like many different things. And when they're sharing their role models, the majority of them are social media personalities, not even like athletes anymore.Like I feel like it's veered away from me hearing about like, oh, you know, I want to be like this football player, this basketball player. And a lot of it, I've really heard, is people from TikTok or like a YouTube. That's what I'm getting a lot of when I ask students who their positive role models are. And I think it's really telling for the time, and it's hard cause sometimes I'm like, I don't even know who that is. But like, I don't think there is a lot of conversation, in my experience over the last year or two, that really talks about Simone or talks about people like her, who have these really important stories and really important messages to provide our students with.And now you're at the high school level. So I'm curious as to what you're hearing, as far as who they talk about these days.Julian: Yeah, I mean, social media folks that are in that vein, the Real Housewives still get a lot of, they still get a little bit of love, but it makes me think about what are we doing to elevate and — I wouldn't want to say commercialize — but what are we doing to like get people that we would consider positive role models like in front of kids?Marissa: They're there though, right? These role models are there and they're there for all of our students — for our students of color, for students with learning and thinking differences. And they are relatable. I think it's like you said, it's just a matter of what is in their direct line. Right? And what are they spending their time on? I would even venture to say that a lot of students were either uninvested in the Olympics and therefore, if they're not even watching the Olympics, they might not even know who Simone Biles is. So I think it's a charge for us to incorporate that.Julian: Yeah, I was about to say, I'm going to challenge you. I'm going to challenge you. You need to make sure that in your classes next week, you put Simone on blast and make sure that they know. I'm going to do the same at school. I'm going to make sure that we put Simone's name out there, get her story out there more.Marissa: It's more than just Simone though, right? Like I'm glad she's like our starting point for this conversation. But I think too, like I say, you got to go back to that relatability. Because for some of my students, Simone's not going to be the person they relate to. However, they might relate, or they might want to know about the fact that, you know, Will Smith as an adult has been identified with ADHD. right? So like here he is, he is already this famous person. He already is this personality. And then through his adult life, he has been challenged with making sure that he is not being seen by his label, right? Which happens a lot of times, if they're not used the right way, then they create this stigma. So I think it's a matter of how do we bring these stories to life? How do we find the relatable person, right? Or multiple people — more than one person to kind of be like, look, here's a list of individuals that you probably have seen in movies on the screen in some capacity. And do you know who they are? Do you know their story? Do you know what they've overcome? So they've done it, like you can too.Julian: But then I guess the flip side is, both of us are making pretty big assumptions right now. And I say that because right now we're both talking about famous people or people in the public eye that can be considered role models. And we need to put them in front of our students and make sure that they have these people, but we're assuming that the people in their lives aren't already doing that. Or that they don't already have people they consider role models and we just don't know about it.Marissa: Right. I'm glad you brought that up because as I was putting all these people on pedestals, all these famous people, there was like this nagging in my head that's like, well, wait a second. Role models don't always have to be people on television or in social media, right? Like role models or the people that you interact with on a day-to-day basis. And I think that is something to speak about and you're right. We made a ton of assumptions. However, my push to that is while we're making a ton of assumptions, I'm also pushing that I do feel because I've asked this, especially in my role as an eighth-grade teacher, I ask a lot about high school and afterwards, and I'm sad to say that there are very few students that do share that their role model or someone that they look up to even in the simplest forms is like a family member, a neighbor, a teacher, like I'm not getting that much of that information. And I don't think it's happening enough at school either, right?Julian: Like the idea of role models in general.Marissa: Right. And diverse role models. I think that's the piece of it too. Julian: I do think everybody has a role model. Everybody has somebody that they're looking at. It's just whether they acknowledge it or not, whether they actually take the time to sit back and think, do I have people that I'm looking at and watching them move? And I do think there's an opportunity. Small plug for the podcast, closing the gap on opportunity. But there's an opportunity for us to really elevate people who do have learning and thinking differences, but are in everyday life. Imagine the power of some of our top athletes that also receive special education services. If they came out and just said it. Imagine some of the teachers that are coaches or everyday people that just come out and say, listen, I have different struggles, too. Mental health is a thing. It's OK. It's OK to be you. And going back to that relatability piece, I mean, that's really where it falls.Marissa: Right. And it starts with us, like you said, there's just these moments where it's, oh my gosh, wait, what role have I personally played in this or not played? As a hearing-impaired individual, I could have been someone who shared my story and I didn't. I always took it upon myself to just handle it. Like this was my disability. This was my issue. And I never expected others to like, I don't know, to like, be part of the process. And I think I missed an opportunity to close the gap. Julian: Do you share that with your students now? Like if I asked your students, do you know that Mrs. Wallace has the hearing impairment? Would they know?Marissa: Some of them, yes. I feel like it all kind of came together and I had the epiphany when we went virtual, going back to in person. And so I was teaching undergraduates at the time. And going back to teaching in person during the pandemic obviously would mean that we would all be wearing masks. And so having that conversation that I felt that it would hinder my class because I read lips. So if my students are sharing things with me and I can't read their lips, like just how that would change the dynamic of my class. And so I had to have lots of real conversations, so I think it started there. And now it's kind of seeped into the students that I work with in middle school, where I am trying to be more open about who I am and the things I've had challenges with. I feel like I didn't really have to think too much about my hearing impairment until the pandemic and until they took away one of my accommodations. And so I have to think about it. Julian: I appreciate that you were able to open up like that and be honest. We can't talk about things if we're not living it ourselves. Like how do we find a way to get rid of that stigma a little bit, and to let people be open with the fact that we're all kind of in the mix? Like everybody, everybody has something going on, but especially it's, it's very much just out there for those with learning and thinking differences a lot harder to get people to be open about that. Or maybe not, maybe it's changed. Marissa: I think it is changing. And I think that is something that lends itself to this conversation and something that hopefully we'll also allow not only for our students, but for just individuals in general, to feel more comfortable sharing and discussing what they've experienced. Because like you said, it knows no race, it knows no class, right? Like mental health is there. And it's not specific to one type of individual.Julian: I gotta be honest, though. And, and really keep it as real as can be. There's definitely still a stigma for men, and specifically Black men, to admit that mental health struggles are a thing. And to admit that learning and thinking differences are a thing. I mean, that's a fact. I can say from anecdotal evidence, from my role as an educator, within my own life experience, just society in general has trained us to put up the facade that we can deal with anything. Admitting struggles is a sign of weakness.And if we show any sign of weakness, then that gives somebody else a chance to take advantage of us. I'm even starting to see a little bit of that just in the way that I watch my son and his friends play, right? I'm sure you're going to start seeing that with your son. And even at that young age, there's already a societal push for our boys to start hardening themselves a little bit and to present a face to the world that is one of strength and one of not having to deal with problems or issues that we're celebrating Simone for saying. But I wonder like how many of our men might've come out and said the same thing. And there have been, there's been some, but it's few and far between. Where do we go with that? How do we go in a place where we start to unpack all of the societal pressures on our boys, especially our Black boys, by just getting them to get to a place where they admit that mental health is a thing. And we need to talk about this. And if we're having learning and thinking differences, it's OK. Marissa: That's the question. You just posed the biggest issue as to why I think sometimes these natural role models don't become as obvious for our students or don't exist in the way that our students need them to exist, right? Because they're not sharing some of these stories or there is, like you said, that stigma or the societal reasons that we do put on especially our Black and brown boys to not discuss it or not talk about it.And I think it's important that we start to have the conversation about what are some actual, instead of just kind of talking around it or talking through it. What are some tangible things that we can discuss to start to close this idea or to change this idea, to transform this idea, right? That there has to be the stereotypical way that we see learning and thinking differences. That's a mindset shift.Julian: You know, as a white woman, do you feel like there's more role models that have expressed their issues or the idea of having learning and thinking differences? Like making it OK? Is that more prevalent in white society than in marginalized communities or not? I'm actually just curious. What's your experience? Marissa: I'm really thinking about it. And I think we have to highlight the learning and thinking differences. As much as I know, I kind of like was putting down social media and stuff before, you know, I do have those influencers that I follow and those people that give me some inspiration and share their stories. Honestly, I cannot think of a single person at all, white or Black, that speak on learning and thinking differences. I'm stumped by this and that's jarring. Like I'm sitting here and I'm like, wait, what? And like, even now as an adult and someone who's been in the field of education and special education for almost two decades, I don't have a single person that I could say would be like a role model that shares or talks about learning and thinking differences. So what does that say?Julian: That's something for just our listeners to really be thinking about. Think back to your own childhood experience, your own educational experience. Were there people who you would consider role models who actually embraced differences if they had any? I mean, I know that the time that we're in now is vastly different than when we were coming up. But, you know, just the fact that we're discussing learning and thinking differences in a public space is way different than it was when we were kids, right? And I wonder just in terms of the next steps. I don't know if I know exactly what to do next. I do think that there are role models that are people like Simone. People who do have a public platform to discuss and really be out there with their learning and thinking differences and how they live with it. I wonder how can we get more of our kids — our own children and our students — to be open about talking about learning and thinking differences and not attaching a negative connotation to it. Just saying what it is. It just is. ADHD. It just is.Marissa: I think one tangible step is we have to create space now that we're more comfortable and that we identify that everybody does learn differently and that's OK. I think we motivate people to share their stories, because storytelling and sharing experience is known to be one of the best ways to create those bonds and relationships. And we know that students are going to achieve more when they feel safe and when they have those relationships with others.Julian: Problem solved. We figured it out. Tie with a bow. Marissa: This is one piece. Julian: I appreciate the fact that we're searching for some ways to encourage our schools, to encourage our parents at home, to make sure that you find a way to incorporate conversation around learning and thinking differences in your everyday lives and to seek out role models, whether they be famous people or people that are in the public eye or whether they be family members. Maybe you have an aunt, maybe your kids have a cousin or a friend or somebody they look up to — a coach that is willing to talk about their own struggles or their own triumphs, right? So again, I'm going to go back to the challenge of one, make sure that you're sharing Simone Biles' story, and two, share more about your own story, as much as you can. Marissa, it's been a great conversation today. I appreciate it. Marissa: I appreciate it, Julian. And this is definitely one that I think not only are we pushing for our audience to really think things through, but I think it's leaving both of us with some thoughts and next steps as well. And that's what this is all about.Julian: Thank you so much for joining us. I hope that as you're thinking about your next steps, think about what you're going to do tomorrow. What conversation can you have related to learning and thinking differences? Do your own kids know about Simone Biles? Do my own kids know about Simone Biles? My daughter does, but I need to make sure my son and daughter do. And find ways to uplift positivity. Thank you so much. We'll be back very soon.This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you hear today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice.Go to u.org/opportunitygap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@Understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
Teacher tip: Use animated videos to help your child learn to make inferences
A dog is waiting near an empty water bowl. What’s the dog feeling?You probably guessed that the dog is feeling thirsty. That’s because you made an inference. Making inferences is a critical reading skill. But many students with learning and thinking differences struggle with it.Making inferences is especially hard when reading fiction. Authors don’t always describe how a character feels. They simply write what’s happening. Readers need to think like the character and understand the plot to guess what the character thinks and feels.To make an inference, a student must make a logical connection between two or more ideas in a text. The student needs to “read between the lines.” And research shows that if students can make inferences with pictures, comics, or videos, they can also make them with words.So here’s a tip. Use an animated video to help your child develop these skills.Videos let your child practice the skill of making inferences without having to worry about the mechanics of reading, like decoding words. I suggest wordless animated videos because they require your child to infer an entire plot. That means a lot of practice.The Oscar-nominated short film Oktapodi is a fun video to do this with. (Watch this video before sharing it, to make sure it’s appropriate for your child.)As you and your child watch the video together, ask your child questions.What is the man’s job? How do you know?Where does the story take place? (Students may not have the background knowledge to guess accurately. But they can guess the climate.)How does the orange octopus/pink octopus/man feel? How do you know? (You can ask this throughout the video.)What do you think happens after the end of the film?Make sure to explain to your child how inferences work. For example, ask your child what they would infer if they looked out the window and saw people using their umbrellas. Tell your child they can make smart guesses if they think of their own experiences and look for clues.You can even model how you make inferences: “The orange octopus saw the sign on the side of the bus. It must be thinking the pink octopus is in trouble since the man seems to want to sell the pink octopus for food.”Here are other videos you can use to practice inferences. I’ve also included some questions to ask your child about each. (As with Oktapodi, be sure to watch these videos on your own before sharing them with your child.)Simon’s Cat (for young kids): Why is the cat upset? Why doesn’t the cat want to get into the crate? Where do you think the man wants to go?Crumbs: Why do the mice look around? Where do you think the crumbs came from? Why does the gray mouse give its crumb to the blue mouse?Paper Man: Where is this story set? How does the man feel when the woman gets on the subway? What are the man’s boss and co-workers thinking?—Jules Csillag, MS, is a licensed speech-language pathologist and a teacher of students with speech and language disabilities.Read up on the essential skills needed for reading comprehension. Learn how wordless picture books can help your child’s learning. And watch a video on how to use TV to help your child build social skills.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!ADHD hyperfocusing on a career in visual effects
Jo Shaffer, who has ADHD, learned a technical skill through hyperfocus and obsession. Listen to Jo’s career advice and unique claim to fame.Sometimes, people with ADHD can thrive in jobs that require hyperfocus. That’s true of Jo Shaffer, a self-taught visual effects artist who says working on motion graphics is a perfect fit for how their mind works. Learn how Jo gets paid to come up with fun, computer-generated graphics for companies and advertisers.Jo also shares their thoughts on the connection between having ADHD and being nonbinary. The answer might surprise you.Listen in. Then:Watch a video of one of Jo’s computer-generated effects. Check out ADHD memes created by Jo.Episode transcript Eleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou, and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host.Our next guest creates the motion graphics you may see in videos, visual ads, and GIFs. Jo Shaffer is a visual effects artist from Madison, Wisconsin. Jo: Yes.Eleni: Jo identifies as nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns. Jo also has ADHD. Welcome to the show, Jo. Jo: Thanks for having me. Eleni: I don't know why I struggled saying Wisconsin.Jo: Yeah. People are mystified in New York. People think that it's like, I don't know. It's some truly, some faraway planet. People have laughed at it before. So I've got a thick skin about it. Eleni: Is that the best way to describe your job?Jo: Yeah. I work as a visual effects artist, and mostly I have been working on commercials. So that would be anything from, if there's a logo on a billboard that someone isn't cleared to show in their commercial, I will take that out. Or if they just want, like, to add a whole billboard in, or if they want an explosion, blood, smoke, rain, all the stuff that you can't do in real life essentially, or didn't have the money to do.Eleni: So would I have seen any of your stuff anywhere out in the world?Jo: Yeah. So I would say my current claim to fame is that Tina Fey show "Girls5Eva." I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right, but I, uh, did some object removal on the opening credits. So it's not like I even added something you'd recognize, but I cut everybody out of the background so that stuff could go in behind them.Eleni: Nice. Well, I love Tina Fey's and that is a great claim to fame. Jo: Yes. Yeah, it was very exciting. And I was shocked that they hired me. Like, why me, isn't there somebody else for this?Eleni: When I heard "motion graphics" or like "visual effects," I really associate that with drawing. Is that a fair assumption? Like what is it really about? How would you describe it? Jo: Yeah, it's interesting because I actually got into visual effects or just — I would say maybe "computer-generated imagery" is maybe the best umbrella term — but I got into it because I wanted to be able to paint hyper realistically or draw hyper realistically, but I just felt like I couldn't do it. I felt like I was not able to, I guess, put the time in and the idea of getting to automate visuals without getting into all the weeds of the technical stuff, being able to have a means of computing lighting scientifically rather than approximating it, was really interesting to me. And I still think drawing has been extremely valuable and I definitely use it and just enjoy it. But I view it almost as an alternative to sort of classic visual arts.Eleni: So when you said you really wanted to be able to do hyper real things, but you felt like you couldn't really do it, do you mean through like more manual drawing?Jo: Yeah. Yeah, totally, like the classic stuff that you need to do, like rendering the human form, really understanding value. And obviously all those things still come into play. But with drawing or painting, it's all kind of channeled through your hand, which I found that difficult at the time. This was also before I started taking meds for ADHD. So I think since then I have kind of come back around and come to appreciate the discipline of that a little bit more. But it just took so much repetition, which is silly because I have now spent years and countless hours practicing this other thing.Eleni: What is it about visual effects or computer-generated graphics that you think is less repetitive or more appealing than drawing?Jo: Being able to just press a button and get a result felt like alchemy, honestly. Like you would mess with all these settings, get all these ratios, right? And then press a button and something would come out and you could be surprised by it. And I like that it incorporated some randomness and some chance, and I like that it felt more interactive and frankly more like a video game. Eleni: It's interesting. Yeah. Cause I never really thought of it like that. It gives you more of like that instant satisfaction. Or even just like more of an instant feedback. It's like you do a thing and then you see the output more quickly.Jo: And it's more surprising too, I think, which I appreciate.Eleni: Yeah. So it sounded like you had an interest in like creating those types of effects. But how or when did you decide to pursue it as a career? Jo: Yeah, it was a very slow process because I didn't think that I could actually do it or get paid for it, but I really just couldn't stop doing it. I guess, hyper fixation. I just would spend like every night, till 4 a.m., just messing around with it. And that honestly took like two or three years until I was finally like, oh my God, I think I could maybe get paid for this. And I'm still, frankly — I mean, it's the type of thing where once you are in, you can really make a good living. And there's a lot of work because it's a pretty specialized field, yada yada, but in my experience, It took a long time to really like, get to the point where I could be paid for it. Eleni: Yeah. So you said you were just messing around in your own time. So would you say that you were self-taught?Jo: Yeah. I took one class in this program called Maya, then everything from there is self-taught. I really wish I had watched more tutorials at the beginning. Cause I think I could have cut about a year down from how long it took me to learn everything. Again, chalk that up to ADD. But I have a very specific self-directed learning process that is not always the most efficient, but it's the way I live my life, I guess.Eleni: How did you go about learning?Jo: Very haphazardly, I would say. I mean, I think the way people traditionally recommend it is to just really focus on function, which is to say, you know, pick something that you need to do and then learn how to do everything specific to that. Part of what took me a long time to learn about these programs is that they are so open-ended that even the people making them don't really have a great idea of like everything you could do in it.So I was looking, I think, a lot of the time for just like a really ironclad way to do something. And I found it really liberating when I heard somebody compare these effects more to recipes. Like, you know, you have all these techniques and ingredients that will probably ultimately create this kind of a fact.And so I think that's something that suits me, is just the fact that no task is ever quite identical. It's always informed by just what's in the image. Eleni: Yeah. That's pretty cool. So there's an element of experimentation. And as you said earlier, like surprises and you know, the ability to be creative with it and kind of figure it out each time on your own. That's really cool. Now, I believe you went to film school before deciding to focus more on visual effects. Tell me about that.Jo: I went to film school and I thought I would be an editor just because it was the trade, I guess, that I thought I could do, what I had been doing. Film was always kind of my main thing that I really wanted to do. The first, like real visual effects I did was I wrote and directed a feature film, which is sort of making the rounds through festivals and stuff now, and we just couldn't afford visual effects. So the first shot I ever started working on was a gigantic storm cloud. And I was surprised, I think, by how much it still kind of plays by the rules of traditional filmmaking stuff. It's just applied through a very specific kind of process. And I think this is part of what I enjoy about visual effects, is it doesn't really matter how you did it, if it looks right. It's all about perception, I guess, and about understanding how much people perceive and what they're more likely to miss, or what their eye's going to gravitate towards and knowing how to lead an eye or disguise something from someone's eye, which is all stuff that a filmmaker's doing.Eleni: Yeah. So you talked a little bit about hyper fixation. Do you want to talk about any other ways ADHD shows up in your work? And also perhaps like how it makes you good at what you do?Jo: I mean, I think it's a tricky combination because on one hand, I think it makes it very easy for me to jump into something and to feel comfortable with a little bit of chaos — just because there's so much technical stuff, but it's never quite gonna work right. So I don't know if this is true for all people with ADHD, but for me, definitely, having a little bit of chaos going on, I've found that it's like ADHD, it makes it helpful for me to just really like be able to switch between things quickly and keep adjusting my plan. Because in visual effects, like the person you're working for almost never knows how visual effects work. So like there's always going to be so much miscommunication and it's so much on you to be able to adapt because they don't know what they want, but they know what they don't want. And they'll fire you if they get what they don't want. So, yeah, I think that flexibility is really useful. I think obviously time management is maybe the negative end of that or the thing that I've really had to be militant about, because if you hyper fixate too much, you can literally spend infinity on this stuff. And there's just a point of diminishing returns, I suppose, which you have to know when that point comes.Eleni: Those are both themes that we've heard a lot from people. So this idea of being comfortable with chaos has come up quite a bit, actually. And this idea of being comfortable with a lot of like change and ambiguity and having a flexible plan, you know, all of those things come up a lot. And maybe this doesn't apply to everyone, but it applies to me. Like that's what I love about this podcast, that everyone can really share their unique experience and how it applies to them. Because of course not everything applies to everyone. But it's also really fun when we hear these commonalities too.So what about when you were growing up? Like how did some of the challenges with ADHD come up for you?Jo: I think the biggest thing with regard to that, that I find myself just like ruminating on the most maybe, is what I thought math was like as a kid. The way that I think — at least I was taught math and I would venture to guess most people — it almost reminds me of learning Latin from like a strict German school in the late 1800 or something. Like it's just purely about memory.And I don't know, I had such a narrow idea of what math was. And my dad sent me a picture of like a math notebook I had the other day and it had all these spirals in it. Which at the time was doodling, but I just found it funny because now I view something like a repeating spiral pattern as math. Procedural geometry is a huge part of what I do.Eleni: So interesting.Jo: Yeah. Like manipulating patterns and understanding how layers of shapes can create different things and sort of what mathematical formulas, you know, are good for different things. Like noise functions, for example, which I don't even fully understand, but it's basically just a way of creating, like static would be one example of noise. But there are all these different types of noise functions, which are used to create smoke and atmospheric effects and stuff. And I just didn't know that math is just life and that it works so well with art. I thought it was like calculators. Eleni: I love that because I think so many people have that assumption that math has like no real-world application. Even though you didn't like it at school, you found a real-world application for it that you actually really enjoy.Jo: Yeah, and I wish I'd paid more attention. Like trig, for example. If I had paid more attention to trig, I could do all this crazy stuff. I mean, I'm in the process of relearning it now, but that would be so helpful in like creating a mountainside and figuring out where to place the rocks, because I could tell where to place the rock based on the angle of, you know, stuff like that.Eleni: Yeah. I feel like you blew my mind a little bit there and I hope other people have been able to make that connection, too, because I love thinking about how math and science and art can actually be really intertwined a lot of the time. Jo: Yeah, totally. Eleni: I know that you said you spent a lot of your time, like really hyper focused and sometimes that means that you can kind of spend infinity time on things. Are there other ways that you also express yourself?Jo: Yeah, my partner makes fun of me because I mostly only do this stuff, but I'm trying to think of what I do outside. Part of what I like about this job is I can listen to audiobooks during it. I have trouble reading, but for whatever reason, my brain absorbs audiobooks really well. I'm very interested in Cold War history. And state crimes, I guess like crimes against humanity committed by the United States government and the NATO bloc of countries. So it sounds like I'm joking, but I swear to God, this is a huge part of my life. Most of my life is spent listening to audiobooks about state crimes and state terror perpetrated by the United States — while doing visual effects.Eleni: Oh my God. I love hearing about people's obscure interests. But also like you kind of just breezed over that, but how cool that you can listen to audiobooks and be doing something while working, like simultaneously.Jo: Yeah, it's like the best part of my job, you know.Eleni: It's so cool, you know. Jo: It's so good.Eleni: I love that. Well, in terms of other interests, I know you're also in a band. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Jo: Yeah. I play bass in a band called the Ophelias. We just put a record out called "Crocus." I just really enjoy it being the thing that is just pure instinct in my life. There's not a lot of thought involved and like on tour, I mean, I'm in the process of trying to figure out a good way to be able to be on tour and do visual effects stuff, which is kind of tricky because you need so much processing power.But for the most part, I would say it's a really nice counterbalance, just because you really can't think too hard about it all the time. I mean, some people would probably disagree, but for me, I really love that it just comes and you don't have to be analytical.Eleni: Interesting. Yeah. It sounds like you can be really in the moment with it.Jo: Yeah. Definitely. Visual effects is so laborious. Everything has 10 steps associated with it. So it's nice to just be able to pluck a string and a note comes out.Eleni: So at the start of the interview, I introduced you as nonbinary in terms of gender. Do you think there's any connection between your gender identity and your ADHD?Jo: I don't know if there's a direct connection I could draw. I mean, I think it all comes together to feed into like a world view. I'd say, mostly it just makes me angry more than anything. Just rage. Honestly. I wish I had a better, happier answer, but yeah, I just mostly feel angry about it, just at the world.Eleni: Do you want to say a little bit more about where the anger is directed or what you're angry about? Jo: Yeah. No, it's a good question. It's hard to unpack and I mean, clearly I'm still figuring it out. I keep forgetting how old I am. I'm 25. I mean, I think it's so easy if with ADD stuff you're just very often put in a position where people think that you're less competent than you are. I mean, that's part of why I like visual effects is because I know I'm competent. And I know that I even know what I'm doing. So it feels like a place where I feel in control. I mean, I think people get upset when they feel like they don't have control, right? And with gender stuff, it's more just like fear of getting killed on the street. And that just transmuting itself back into rage. I don't think that's going to happen to me. I think that's probably a little out there, but it could. If I'm wearing feminine clothing, I definitely am bracing to get hit over the head. So yeah, it's hard to know where to put that stuff.Eleni: And it's definitely not an unfounded fear. We know gender violence is rampant in this country.Jo: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's funny. I thought that would be more of a big deal traveling around on tour. But I found that people who work at gas stations are generally very friendly and understanding, or that's probably the person you see most on tour. They've always been very nice to me. The only time it was weird was somebody told us not to stop at a town in Utah because they said we wouldn't be safe. But other than that, it's been good. Eleni: Well, in that instance, that might've been a helpful advice. Jo: Yeah, no, I'm glad. I would definitely rather hear that than not hear that.Eleni: Well, thank you for sharing all of that. And the reason that I asked too is, you know, we talk a lot about layered identities and they often do connect in some way if people feel like othered or different.Jo: Yeah, totally. Everybody has like a mound of stuff they have to figure out about themselves to feel like they can live in the world without exploding. And it's like one more thing to figure out. Eleni: I think I just have one more question. And given we had that whole conversation about being self-taught, do you have any advice for people that may be not interested in pursuing like a more traditional or structured education and have like some sort of interest that they would like to build on or pursue?Jo: Definitely. There is obviously like a class element to this stuff, because you need time. And time it takes money. So I feel maybe a little bit sheepish offering blanket advice, because I know that different people have different amounts of time. I would say specific to visual effects: Don't pay for anything unless you're positive you have to. You can do it for free, at least for starters. It truly is essential because you cannot do this without the software, and the software is way too expensive. So you got to figure out how to scam it a little bit, a few free trials in a row or whatever. If you were pursuing the self-taught route, you're probably an obsessive type and that's good. It's good to be obsessive about the right things, but definitely just have a little part of your brain that's like, what's the broad plan here? What am I trying to learn this month? What would be good to learn next month? If you even just pay a little bit of attention to the structure of how you're learning stuff, then you just let your obsession fuel the day-to-day stuff, you will be surprised how fast you learn in my experience.Eleni: Thank you so much for joining me today, Jo. Jo: Yeah. Thank you for having me.Eleni: This has been "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard today, tell someone about it. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/thatjob to share your thoughts and to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash that job.Do you have a learning difference and a job you're passionate about? Email us at thatjob@understood.org. If you'd like to tell us how you got THAT job, we'd love to hear from you. As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors. Thanks again for listening.
7 steps to make teacher videos more accessible and engaging during distance learning
Making videos during distance learning can be a great way to support your students, especially the 1 in 5 who learn and think differently. There are many benefits to making your own videos. And the more you record, the better you’ll get at it. Watch this teacher-made video to see how to use seven steps for making asynchronous videos that are engaging and accessible to all learners. You can also scroll down to read about the seven steps. 1. Decide which type of video to make.Teacher-made videos usually fit into one of two categories: “talking head” videos or screencast videos. Knowing your end goal will help you decide what type of video to make. “Talking head” videosA “talking head” video is when you record yourself talking to the camera. Make this video if it’s important that your students focus on you during the lesson. Good reasons for choosing this type of video: To connect personally with your students To model how to do something that involves physical objects, like a science experiment Screencast videos A screencast video is when you record your voice and your computer screen. Make a screencast video if showing something close-up — like slides, a document, or an interactive whiteboard — best supports your learning goal. Good reasons for choosing this type of video: To explain the directions for an assignment To show how to solve a math problem To demonstrate how to use an assistive technology tool There are many screencast tools to choose from. Depending on the tool, a screencast video may show a small image of your talking head in the corner. This feature can help personalize the video. You can also use a videoconference tool like Zoom to make a screencast video. Start a meeting with just yourself (or with another teacher if you are co-teaching), share your screen, and record the meeting. 2. Plan a short video focused on one topic.A good plan will save you time — and frustration. Depending on how often you want to refer to notes as you record, write a simple outline or a detailed script for your video. You’ll also need to prepare any images or slides. Remember that many of the best practices for online lessons apply to videos: Keep it short (6 minutes maximum) and focused on one topic. This is especially important for students who struggle with attention or who have trouble with working memory. Read your script aloud and time it. Break the video up into more than one video if it’s too long. Plan to share the learning goal at the beginning of the video to take the guesswork out of why your students should watch the video. Plan to use explicit instruction when showing or teaching a skill or concept. Prepare questions to engage students, guide their learning, and check for understanding. Plan for wait time after asking questions and between topics. These pauses are especially important for students with slow processing speed. At the end, include takeaways and next steps so students know what to do. 3. Gather your equipment and check your lighting.You don’t need fancy equipment to make videos for your classroom. Here are the basic tools you need to get started. Camera For “talking head” videos, you can use the built-in camera on your laptop, tablet, or smartphone.For phone videos: You’ll need to decide to record vertically or horizontally. If you’re embedding the video on a website, you probably want to record horizontally. If you think your students may be watching on a phone, you may want to record vertically.For screencast videos: You don’t need a camera to record your screen. But if you want your screencast video to also include your talking head, use the built-in camera on your laptop or tablet. (A touchscreen device works well for screencasts of interactive whiteboards.) TripodA shaky video can be hard to follow. Don’t have a tripod? There are many easy DIY ways to make one with household items. MicrophoneYou can use the built-in microphone on your phone, tablet, or laptop if you record within arm’s length of the camera. To lessen the chances of capturing background noise, plug in earbuds or headphones with a microphone. If you’re going to be moving around as you record, try to stay as close to the microphone as possible. LightingMake sure you have enough light so your students can see you. This is especially important for “talking head” videos. Turn on the lights and open up the curtains. But don’t record with a window behind you. If you’re outside, keep the sun in front of you. Experiment with different lighting setups to find what works best for you. 4. Keep your background simple.Keep things simple so that making videos is easy and fun — and so that your video is not filled with too many distractions: Keep your wardrobe simple. Avoid clothes with textures, busy patterns, or stripes. Choose a location with the least background noise. Let the people around you know you are recording. But also know that with so many people working at home, no one expects a perfectly quiet location. Keep your background simple. Scan the area to make sure everything that is in the camera’s view is something you want to be recorded. For screencast videos, tidy up your computer’s desktop and turn off any pop-up notifications. Keep the items you need — including a glass of water — within reach.Do a test. Film for a few seconds to check the lighting, sound, and background. Make sure your whole face is in the shot. Check that any props you’re using, especially ones with text, are visible on camera. 5. Record in one take — even if you make a mistake.Try to record everything in one take. Even if you make a mistake in the middle, don’t hit stop. Just start that part over and keep going. This will save you editing time and avoid making your video look choppy. Here are a few other pointers: Check your camera settings. Avoid auto settings to prevent the look changing mid-shot. If you’re using a phone, record at the highest resolution, and activate the HDR function (if you have it). Use “do not disturb” mode to make sure you don’t get calls or alerts while recording. When you start, press the record button and wait a few seconds before speaking. The same goes for the end — wait a few seconds after your last action to press stop. Look directly into the camera lens to make eye contact with your students. Be yourself. Talk directly to your students as if you were in your classroom. Remember to use wait time. Use cues. In “talking head” videos, use gestures, like pointing to something important. In screencast videos, use highlighting, underlining, and circling to guide students’ attention, but don’t overdo it. Too much of this can be distracting. 6. Do a little editing.You don’t need to have a perfectly polished video, but you may want to trim the beginning, the end, or a mistake in the middle. Your phone, tablet, or computer usually has basic editing software to make simple trims and add titles. For example, Apple products have iMovie and Windows products have Microsoft Photo. If you have the time, you can also use an interactive video editor to add engagement elements like questions with answers, polls, and short quizzes. But don’t add too many. You only need a few elements to engage your students. If you don’t have access to an interactive editor, try using your basic editing software like iMovie or Microsoft Photo to add a text card to the beginning or end of your video. This text card could have a link to a Google Form to check for understanding or to a Padlet where students can share ideas or questions. 7. Use tools to make your video accessible.You may need to include transcripts and closed captions as accommodations during distance learning for students who have an Individualized Education Program (IEP). But these tools can help all students access the content. For example, these tools can support English language learners, students who have trouble with focus, and students who benefit from reading content. TranscriptsWhen you make a transcript, students will be able to read the entire text of your video. To make a transcript, all you need to do is play your final video while using voice typing in Google Docs, Microsoft’s Dictation, or OneNote to capture in writing what you said in the video. Then edit the transcript as needed, using these tips for formatting. Another option is to use Otter to create a “conversation” you can edit and download. Closed captionsClosed captions allow students to read the words a speaker is saying, as they’re saying them. Many video hosting services come with auto-generated captions that use speech recognition technology. Others don’t. Here are two ways to add captions to videos: YouTube:Upload your video to YouTube. Turn on automatic captioning.Captions won’t be perfect. Use the caption editor to make changes to your captions. From there, create a transcript by clicking the “more” menu (three dots) next to your video and then selecting “open transcript.” Copy and paste this text into a blank document to make your own transcript. Google Drive:Make a transcript first. Upload your video. Click on the top right menu and select “manage caption tracks.” You will be prompted to add a transcript file to create the captions. These extra steps might seem overwhelming at first, but once you see how easy it is to add captions and transcripts — and how much they help students and their families — you’ll be glad you figured out how to do it. Ready to dive deeper?Get tips on how to check in with families to understand how students are doing with distance learning. Read about best practices for online assignments. Explore strategies to keep students engaged during distance learning.
ADHD Aha!ADHD and emotions, from anxiety to boredom (Dr. Sasha’s story)
Dr. Sasha Hamdani didn’t know about her ADHD diagnosis for about a decade. She now specializes in ADHD, and battles the stigma that comes with it. Dr. Sasha Hamdani psychiatrist specializes ADHD anxiety. diagnosed ADHD fourth grade starting calls “riot” classroom. didn’t find ADHD much later, hit wall competitive medical school environment. discovering diagnosis, unplugged academics learn herself — ADHD. debunks ADHD myths one one social media.Dr. Sasha shares story, including thoughts parents’ decision tell ADHD adult. Stay tuned end hear Dr. Sasha talk connection ADHD anxiety. get advice ask kids ADHD symptoms. Related resourcesADHD anxietyADHD girlsADHD boredomPre-order Dr. Sasha’s bookDr. Sasha’s InstagramEpisode transcriptSasha: "aha" moment really would went home I'd struggling long time medical school able sit safe environment parents luxury actually learning symptoms learning ADHD learning "Is truly what's happening brain?" think able pull away drowning academic place trying function own, could actually relate symptoms see going on. that's things clicked. like, "OK, yes, definitely this. Now, do?"Laura: Understood Podcast Network, "ADHD Aha!," podcast people share moment finally clicked someone know ADHD. name Laura Key. I'm editorial director Understood. someone who's ADHD "aha" moment, I'll host. today Dr. Sasha Hamdani. Dr. Sasha psychiatrist specializes ADHD, anxiety disorders, among things, also busting stigma ADHD social media. highly recommend checking Dr. Sasha's Instagram. Dr. Sasha, welcome.Sasha: Hi. Thank much me.Laura: Thank here. think cats background well. So, people watching video...Sasha: They're going start fighting. Sorry.Laura: That's OK. We'll roll it. It's OK.Sasha: Yeah.Laura: Dr. Sasha, think need tell "ADHD Aha!" listeners, described riot. Tell happened.Sasha: OK. So, fourth grade, always knew rambunctious side, substitute teacher day, organized coup classroom got everybody stand desks start chanting. retrospect, don't know that. Like, horrible. Especially I've gotten point career recognize extremely essential teachers are. makes feel terrible. yes, point got everyone else behave badly me. shortly teachers talked parents getting evaluated ADHD. right like quick order, getting diagnosed, getting medicated, turning things around. that's coup.Laura: kind behaviors happening around that? Like say, bad behaviors behaving badly.Sasha: Yeah. don't necessarily mean bad, inappropriate environment, guess. symptoms experiencing typical combined type presentation ADHD. So, lot inattentiveness difficulty focusing engaging task hand, also hyperactivity impulsivity. So, generally, combination symptoms, kids capable work, they're getting bored they're entertaining themselves. that's much happening. entertaining moment time.Laura: time, remember feeling like struggling ADHD symptoms, really teacher said something that's started whole path?Sasha: remember feeling bored remember thinking like, "How people get day? long." Unless something hands-on actively interested in, seemed like agony. that's remember.Laura: Lots kids ADHD struggle boredom. Yeah. remember evaluation process? like? parents react thought needing evaluation?Sasha: So, wish better recollection details, I've talked parents since it. So, got confronted parents, like emergent. teacher like, "No, no. can't riots every day. Like, need something."Laura: almost spit water.Sasha: So, like kind like pushing parents, like "Something needs done. isolated event. need something." mom said "It didn't really seem like choice. seemed like needed go on." mom pediatrician. So, really lucky us opportunity get one peers get evaluated. also, went laborious, long educational panel formal ADHD testing educational counselor. I'm assuming he's psychologist, remember office five hours. "Oh, God, cannot answer another question. Let here." that's kind remember educational testing process, although tell noticing practicing difficult access care is, think really lucky respect.Laura: kind feelings bring fourth grader? afraid getting evaluated? worried different? excited?Sasha: So, preface "I'm telling story with, know, don't know point time would done things differently," parents made choice tell ADHD. tell words. tell kind happening. like, "This everyone's doing, teachers recommended " So, didn't really feel kind isolation difference things like that, didn't even know started medication, taking called vitamin. So, taking this. And, know, I've talked parents like, "Why make choice?" wasn't like, barely developed frontal lobe, I'm pass judgment. "But go there?" reason told ADHD really wasn't talked extensively time, felt like sensitive hard time already brown kid sea Caucasian, well-off, affluent people. already felt different. parents said, "We didn't want add one thing plate." Ideally, wish could handled differently, understand coming from. understand kid was, sensitive things different. didn't want different shoe, didn't want different lunchbox. wanted everything could fit seamlessly possible. So, sudden, things didn't seem terrible. Like, sudden, able sit class I'm like, "Oh, OK, haven't gotten trouble tapping foot desk. haven't gotten trouble talking. That's weird."Laura: OK, got diagnosed fourth grade, received treatment ADHD. Things got better. smooth sailing kind of...That it, right? stop conversation?Sasha: That's it. end story.Sasha: long time. smooth sailing. really well elementary school really like think found stride. Like really enjoyed learning became part identity, never before. started like engaging school. wanted run class office. wanted volunteer things. wanted speak class. stayed dose fourth grade 12th grade, think that's problems slide starting tail end 10th grade again, don't know like behavioral, like normal development like shocking difference parents like "What happening you." think experiencing boredom, hyperactivity, impulsivity. you're late high school years, also additional freedom. So, getting trouble more, anything bad, like stuff you're… within context family fabric like go. so, felt like impulsivity getting more. applied medical school high school, got in.Laura: That's typical, right?Sasha: So, early years high school, knew wanted medical school wanted pediatrics like mom. So, started looking programs combined undergrad graduate programs. started looking fastest, found two six-year programs didn't take MCAT get certain grade levels continue it, start med school right high school, start process right away. yeah, it's common don't necessarily think it's great idea.Laura: want go fast? attraction that?Sasha: don't know. knew wanted go. think typical ADHD, there's like sense urgency. like, "OK, know want
ADHD Aha!ADHD and marriage (Rachel and Jon’s story)
Jon Gardea has ADHD, and his wife Rachel doesn’t. Hear how ADHD impacts their marriage, and how leaving the Mormon church prompted Jon’s ADHD discovery. Jon Gardea ADHD... wife Rachel doesn’t. helped spot signs, though, including hobby graveyard. Jon got diagnosed, clear ADHD impacting marriage years. explanation created positive mindset shift relationship, bringing even closer. Rachel hosts YouTube channel called “Post-Mormon Parenting.” episode, Jon also talk leaving Mormon church contributed Jon’s ADHD discovery. Listen heartfelt honest discussion get behind-the-scenes look ADHD marriage.Related resourcesPost-Mormon Parenting YouTube ChannelHow explain relationship ADHD executive functioning“Setting aside” ADHD better parent husbandEpisode transcript Rachel: I'd like really got TikTok, started showing things ADHD more, like, oh gosh, oh, wait second. There's symptoms this, manifestations this, idea before. oh, goodness, Jon. Like describes well. Specifically, whoever watching talking hobbies would start different hobbies would get super them, enjoy super-short period time. done.Laura: Understood Podcast Network, "ADHD Aha!," podcast people share moment finally clicked someone know ADHD. name Laura Key. I'm editorial director Understood. someone who's ADHD "aha" moment, I'll host.I'm today Jon Rachel Gardea. Jon ADHD. Rachel not. Jon Rachel, welcome show. Thank much here.Rachel: Thank you. Yeah, we're really happy here.Laura: First, need say first time show interviewing two people time. could interesting certainly first time life interviewing married couple. could also interesting. Could introduce people listening know they're listening to?Rachel: Jon hit hand tell go first. I'm Rachel, I'm non-ADHD partner relationship. grew Connecticut, yay, East Coast. live Arizona. met college we've married 14 years three kids, ages 9, 7, 5. I'm stay-at-home mom. spare time like YouTube videos fun stuff like that. Whenever little bit spare time, — know little kids too. know —Jon: spare time.Laura: There's spare time. So, Jon, you?Jon: actually grew Phoenix, grew Mormon. born conservative religious family ended going regular steps Mormon Church. boy, young man, went mission 19 21. went Taiwan. one point speak Chinese fluently. I'm rusty now. ended BYU, Brigham Young University Utah, 20s. met mutual friend singers, choir together ended sort hitting there. ended getting married I'm nurse. nurse 13 years now, really enjoy that.Laura: raised nurse. tons respect nurse.Jon: mom's nurse too.Laura: Yay, nurses. Yes. great. Never let get school sick.Jon: Show thermometer.Laura: Show proof. Right, right. .Jon: fever 101 going go school.Laura: Exactly.Jon: learned fiddle mercury thermometer.Laura: way.Jon: would either put light bulb make go up. learned shake right get right sweet zone wouldn't suspicious go doctor, could skip school.Laura: may ask sing me, way, point, spontaneously erupt song, I'm OK too.Jon: OK. OK.Laura: So, Jon, diagnosed ADHD?Jon: last year.Laura: "aha" moment? led seek evaluation ADHD?Jon: spurred research, so, don't know exactly found, want talk first?Rachel: Sure, yes. current 9-year-old, maybe like 7 8 time. messaging pediatrician saying, "I think might ADHD, maybe, possibly? It's really affecting grades anything, sure makes life little bit difficult home. get evaluated?" pediatrician like, well, doesn't really something big deal. seems fine, like contact year, know, we'll discuss it's affecting grades whatever. kind left alone, back mind, I'm still looking things thinking like, wow, he's classic — whatever know ADHD. He's got hyperactivity attention deficit. kept trying learn it. think watching TikTok. I'd really gotten TikTok.You know say TikTok knows shows things didn't even know TikTok knew first. It's little bit eerie, started showing things ADHD more. like, oh gosh, oh, wait second. There's symptoms this, manifestations this, idea before. oh, goodness, Jon. Like describes well. Specifically whoever watching talking hobbies would start different hobbies would get super them. Like really, really them. would research heck spend hours hours buy accoutrements stuff, enjoy super-short period time. done. We're done. New hobby. Next! realized potentially least ADHD thing, thought, man, Jon bipolar? like exactly going on?Jon: goes manic phases obsessed something.Rachel: Yeah. he'll depressed. happened, too, time lot of, would say like mental turmoil, lot like anguish, lot self-reflection us doing. Because, Jon said, raised Mormon Church recently stopped believing that. us kind crisis meaning lives. Jon particular really hard time mental health time. seeing psychiatrists therapists. brought him, hey, maybe let's talk psychiatrist see ADHD.Laura: react that, Jon?Jon: like, OK, that's basically, uh, maybe, don't know. Anything's possible point. mentioned showed me — think showed TikTok. guy talking obsessions. He's like, new hobby. I'm going hobby. I've bought things hobby. goes room it's complete, like podcasting, audio recording setup, it's like suspended mike boom everything pop filter everything. he's like, nah, ah, I'm done hobby. interest hobby. And, like, oh God, that's totally me.Like summer, like, going learn violin. bought new violin none rent. started going lessons really nice conservatory.Rachel: 'Cause can't anything halfway, partially, mediocre. Like get best stuff. like best lesson.Jon: That's right.Laura: you're going start hobby, start right.Jon: That's right. Exactly.Laura: Don't finish it. you're going start right. Yeah.Jon: Start right. Well, don't intentions quitting. I've got, like, dreams able play, like, Mendelssohn things head, know? I'm going able play amazing violin piece. I'm like watching videos Hilary Hahn violinists, I'm like, inspired. I'm going lessons. suck, course. don't apply myself, course. I'm distracted whatnot. lasts four half, five months, about, would say, long —Rachel: That's longest you've ever spent hobby.Jon: — last. think mentioned maybe like two months stopped going lessons maybe month after. like, oh. started considering different hobbies I've done. Like I've done guitar, I've done ukulele, I've done violin, I've done necklace making beadwork.Laura: ever consider hip-hop dancing? moment time like, I'm going become hip-hop — people listening can't see me, I'm like gangly uncoordinated, would really bad. dream. dream. hip-hop dancer.Jon: never ambitious. impressed.Laura: didn't make past even like thinking it. close, yeah.Jon: Yeah. No, definitely understand. Like, started obsessing K-Pop, probably longest obsession.Rachel: Oh, that's true.Jon: it's become like part life now.Laura: drawing hobbies? feel like body? like impulsiveness regular interest levels getting distracted?
Through your child’s eyes
What does it feel like to learn and think differently? Watch these videos to see the world through your child’s eyes. Kids of different ages talk about how it feels to learn and think differently — and what helps them thrive.Hear how hard it is to complete a task when you have trouble focusing. Or how frustrating it is when your hand won’t write what your brain is telling it to write.Reading challenges: Videos of kids Hear from kids about what it feels like to struggle with reading — and get insights from expert Julie Washington on how to help.Math challenges: Videos of kidsHear from kids about what it feels like to struggle with math — and get insights from expert Michèle Mazzocco on how to help. Writing challenges: Videos of kidsHear from kids about what it feels like to struggle with writing — and get expert insights on how to help.Attention challenges: Videos of kidsHear from kids about what it feels like to struggle with focus — and get insights from expert Ned Hallowell on how to help.Organization challenges: Videos of kidsHear from kids about what it feels like to struggle with organization — and get expert insights on how to help.Explore more resourcesWhat causes these challenges, and how can you help if your child is struggling? Choose from the following skills to learn more: ReadingWritingMathFocus and attentionOrganization
In ItWhy we cry in IEP meetings
Anyone who’s ever sat in on an IEP meeting can confirm: When parents and teachers meet to discuss the needs of a child who’s struggling in school, emotions tend to run high.Anyone who’s ever sat in on an IEP meeting can confirm: When parents and teachers meet to discuss the needs of a child who’s struggling in school, emotions tend to run high.On this first episode of In It, hosts Amanda Morin and Lexi Walters Wright dig into why. They talk with comedian Dena Blizzard about her (very) public reaction to a disappointing IEP meeting. They also connect with expert Mark Griffin, PhD, about what’s at stake during these meetings.Plus, we hear from other families who’ve cried out of frustration and relief. And Amanda shares why all IEP meeting tables should be round.Related resourcesOur community weighs in: Crying at IEP meetingsMom’s emotional video about IEP frustration goes viral5 questions with Dena Blizzard, comedian and parent of a child with learning and thinking differencesEpisode transcriptAmanda Morin: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin, a writer, recovering teacher, and parent advocate. Lexi Walters Wright: And I'm Lexi Walters Wright, Community Manager for Understood, and we are "In It." "In It" is a podcast from Understood for Parents. On this show, we offer support and some practical advice for families whose kids are struggling with reading, math, focus, and other learning and thinking differences. And today, we're talking about IEP meetings and how they can bring up a lot of emotions. Dena Blizzard: I'm sitting here and the teachers are sitting here, and we're all trying to put all of our feedback on the table. And find the best way to teach this one kid, who's different than everybody else. Lexi: First up we're going to hear from Dena Blizzard. Dena is a comedian, a mom, and the creator of the One Funny Mother video series. A few of those videos have gone viral. Dena: For a fun way to spice up your Easter egg hunt, try an Easter wine hunt! Amanda: But one of the One Funny Mother videos that went viral was not funny. You may have seen it on Facebook. It's been viewed half a million times now. Dena shot it from the driver's seat of her car. She tells us she is in the parking lot of a CBS. Dena: I said "Isn't this what we should be doing? We should be trying." And she looked at me, and she said, "I am not going to be making any changes to her IEP. That is the high school's job, and if the high school wants to make changes because they think that that is best, then that's what the high school can do." And then my head exploded.Lexi: Amanda, we're going to talk to Dena in a minute. But first, what is an IEP meeting? Amanda: Well, IEP stands for Individualized Education Program. And an IEP meeting is where you as a parent sit down with all of the educators who are working with your child to talk about that program which provides all of the special education services and other services your child needs to be really successful in school. Lexi: Got it. So back to Dena Blizzard. We wanted to talk to her about her infamous post-IEP meeting meltdown. And appropriately we reached her, or technically she reached us, from her car between errands and appointments. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Dena: Sure! I'm a mother of three. My kids are 18, 16, and 14 now. And many, many years ago when they were very young and I wanted to get away from them, I started doing standup. And everything I wrote about was my kids and my husband. And somehow that kind of flourished into an off-Broadway show that we wrote. So we were off-Broadway in 2016. Now we travel around the country with that show. And then in between we started making videos. Most of the videos are funny. But one of our other big videos was the one you were talking about which is after an IEP meeting for my daughter. And it didn't go well. Amanda: And that's the moments that you said, it's not always funny, right? Dena: No, and it was interesting because, you know, up until that point I had never gone live upset before. But I remember thinking, "Why am I always crying after an IEP meeting?" Like it was just ridiculous, and thinking, "I can't be the only person crying in a parking lot, you know, after an IEP meeting." Like I've done it too many times. And that's I think the very lonesome part of the whole process. You think, "I'm the only one." Lexi: Of course, Dena is not the only one. So we put out a call to the Understood Community to hear about your experiences with getting emotional in IEP meetings. Here's what you shared. Jennifer: Hi, this is Jennifer in Seattle. Yes, I've gotten emotional at IEP meetings. It would probably be faster to ask when I had not gotten emotional. What's tough is how negative these meetings feel. It often seems like I'm the only one in the room who likes my kid and wants him to succeed. And then there's the constant focus on what is wrong that drives me nuts. I know we can't fix it if we don't know what's broken. But why don't we ever get what he's achieved? That often seems glossed over at the end. And then I'm being pressured to sign and run out the door as if I agree that my beautiful child is broken when he is not. Parent: We recently had an IEP for my son, and when the teacher was told that he has an ASD diagnosis, she said, "I don't teach those kind of kids, and I don't know how to teach those kinds of kids. And isn't there a special classroom he should be put in?" And that made me really upset, and tears came to my eyes. It's very humiliating to cry in an IEP. But when you hear something like that, you can see a long fight ahead, and know that in the end, your child's probably going to lose that fight. Lexi: Dena, will you set the scene for us? So where were you, when was this, and will you describe a little bit of what happened? Dena: Sure. So, my daughter, I knew in like second or third grade that something was kind of going on. My older two kids are. you know. what we consider to be typical learners. But very early on I could tell that there was just something different. But now fast-forward and it has been six years. She was in eighth grade and anxiety plays a really big role in her journey. And I was being told all the time that anxiety was the problem and that there wasn't a learning disability. So we had finally gotten her anxiety under control, and I was really then focused on trying to get a really good read on, you know, does she have a learning disability? I really think that she did, but she hadn't been assessed in the three years. And so I went in and I asked for a meeting and I said, "You know, I really want to talk about how she keeps failing these tests. But yet she can verbally tell me what she understands. And so that was my general question. She was transitioning to high school and I was like, it was around April, and I felt like we had the time to really try different testing methods so that when she got to high school, we were going to get an accurate understanding of what she knew. And so I had gone in and I was just like, let's do this together, let's work on it. But it wasn't until the case manager just put her hands on the table, and I just remember seeing her hands going on the table and her saying, "Let me be very clear. We will be making no changes to the IEP." Dena: So, she said, "I'm not making any changes to the IEP. You can deal with that at the high school." And I said, "What are you talking about? We have three months left. Why wouldn't we make changes to the IEP now? Why wouldn't we try everything?" I'm just, I'm sorry.Amanda: So Dena shared that Facebook Live video on a Monday. By Thursday, 100,000 people had watched it. And in that time she got more than 3,000 comments. Dena: You know, besides the comments that you see on the video, you know, just thousands probably of emails, private emails, of people just kind of telling their stories. And even emails from people that I've seen their kids grow up and I've known them for years. I never knew that their kids had any issues, and it really struck me because I thought, you know, people just don't talk about it. You know, it wasn't until I was like having a complete breakdown that people were reaching out. And I just felt and I still feel like, you know, the more that people talk about it, the more it's not a thing, you know, it shouldn't be that hard. And there was a lot of actual school districts and training facilities for special ed that reached out and said, you know, would you mind if we use your video for training purposes? We're training people to work in special ed. And, you know, we want them to see what it looks like on the other side. Amanda: Mark, how many IEP meetings do you think you've attended in your life? Mark Griffin: Oh, hundreds. Lexi: Mark Griffin is a psychologist, a special educator, and a founding headmaster of Eagle Hill School, a school for kids with learning and thinking differences. And over the course of his four decades there, he attended many, many IEP meetings. Amanda: I want to know from your experience as an educator, why do you think these meetings tend to be so emotional for parents? Mark: Well, I think what happens to parents, even though you get a smile and a nod all the time and they're, you know, they're excited about it and they've done their homework, that as you go through the process there's just so much at stake. And that this is the chance that they are hoping is going to be the difference between this youngster having an opportunity over time to be successful or having an opportunity, unfortunately, not to be successful and slipping through the cracks. So, I do think that there's a sense of fear. There's a sense that this school is sort of viewing this from the standpoint of what they have to do. And so unless everything happens to go very smoothly, and I have to say that the number and number and number of these things that we attended, there were very few where there wasn't at some point some kind of contention about the school's ability to provide those resources.Lexi: Mark says he understands why these meetings can get so heated, especially for parents. Mark: I think parents get to the point where, in their own sort of need to be sure that they are advocating as well as they possibly can, that there's bound to be a time during that meeting where they are going to feel very emotional about it. I've seen parents, you know, openly weep in an IEP meeting, when they honestly feel that they're just not going to get what their child needs. I've seen parents who threaten the school with lawsuits. They're going to lawyer up and make sure that the school will do these things that they're supposed to do. I've seen parents who have been very frustrated with the entire process and wonder out loud whether the school really has the best interest of their child at heart. And sometimes they're emotionally happy. It went just the way that they wanted to. And at the end of the meeting, both of the parents are weeping because they got what they needed, or they got what they felt that their child needed. But very rarely do they end up being stoic kinds of, very easy to get the consensus, "thank you very much for this program and that's wonderful." Lexi: So Mark, here's what I want to know about. There's about 15 minutes after the IEP meeting is over. What do you do as an educator, and what do you wish parents would do after that really high-stakes, really emotional experience to make the whole thing feel like it's come full circle for them? Mark: For parents, it seems to make the most sense and, if you can gather yourself and sort of reflect on what your hopes had been when it ran into reality, when reality moved closer to your hopes, what you ended up with as a final thing. And then I think that it's always important for us as educators who happen to have been at that meeting, but it's certainly most important for parents to sort of take a deep breath and back up. And then it's important to remember, even early on, that this is not etched in stone. That this is the beginnings of a journey and a process, and you need to look at the long term and the long haul even though you've just finished the very beginning part of it. Melissa: My name is Melissa. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I have an 11-year-old son with ADHD and disruptive mood dysregulation disorder. He's been on an IEP since first grade, and I've felt every emotion on the scale during IEP meetings. At first it was anger and frustration, because even though he was being suspended from class and excluded from field trips because he was considered a danger to himself in kindergarten, we could not get an IEP even started. It finally got in place in first grade. He ended up finishing third grade in the hospital. But one of the positive things that came out of that was that the school really started to take seriously his mental health concerns. And they switched up his IEP by fifth grade and he thrived. I had IEP meetings after that where I cried because I was happy. And recently, after a really tough first month of middle school, we had an IEP meeting where I cried because they were giving me so many examples of just how well he was able to figure things out now. They would tell us about simple social interactions he would have that probably every other parent takes for granted, but that he had never pulled off successfully. So hearing about these responses he was having to other kids was so amazing that I couldn't not cry at that point. Lexi: So Amanda, you're the parent of two kids with learning and thinking differences. So you know what IEP meetings are like from that perspective. But before that, I know you were also a teacher for many years. How many IEP meetings did you attend as an educator? Amanda: I've probably attended over 100 IEP meetings as an educator. Lexi: Do you wear a different hat now that you're on the other side of the table? Amanda: I like to think they're all roundtables instead of... Lexi: Yeah, that's really interesting. Will you say more about that? Amanda: Well, I think that if we look at it as one side of the table or the other side of the table, we fail to realize that in the middle of that table is the kid that we're all trying to help. So I love all IEP tables to be roundtables. Lexi: Dena, do you have any advice for parents going into IEP meetings? Dena: You know, I really, really never wanted to feel like I was fighting the school. And so many times it just ended that way. I just remember one meeting sitting on my side of the table and then like 13 administrators on the other side. And you know, I was just thinking even the seating arrangement feels very uncomfortable. And so trying to constantly just use words like "we." And I do feel like the more people that are on board in to kind of helping you find a resolution, find a solution, the more the better. And I think that that's why that video was so upsetting, is that that was the moment where I realized, you know, that we weren't on the same page. And so you know I just had to take a step back and just, you know, I was like, she is not a good match for me. She is not my people. I'm a big fan of finding your people. And she was not a good person for my team. And so we just had to re-evaluate the team and get a different team, you know, and even making Brooke feel like she was part of that team and trying to get her to understand, you know, the things that she struggles with and the things that she's great at, and for her to come up with some of her own solutions. Dena: And so, you know, I think that, you know, I tell her all the time, like, you have so many people in your corner that are trying to help you manage all of this for you to learn what you need to learn, and so, you know, a lot of times it's a struggle. You know, even when we got her set up at this new school. I had done all this work and really fought to kind of get this to happen. And then we started the school, and then she said, "You know, I really don't think that it's going well in my history class." And I said, "OK." I said, "Why is that?" "Well, I'm not learning anything. You know, all we do is worksheets." And I said, "OK so what are you learning about?" She goes, "The Enlightenment." And I said, "OK. Well what do you know about the Enlightenment?" She was like, "Well, it was a period of time when people realized that they could just learn anything if they just open a book." And she just went on and on. Right. And the she just stopped. She goes, "Wait a minute. I guess I did learn something." I go, "Yeah, that's the most I've ever heard you say about anything."Amanda: Did your daughter watch the video?Dena: She didn't for a long time and then, I don't know, maybe two months later, just out of the blue, even the kids have... and she just looked at me. She was kind of sad. And she was like, "I saw your video."Lexi: Was that like for you?Dena: You know, I think she knows how hard that I fight for her. And I think she appreciates it. You know, I think she is just such a unique case and so self-aware that she gets it. She was like, "Thank you."Amanda: Dena, thank you so much for talking to us.Dena: Thanks, ladies.Lexi: Amanda, do these meetings ever get easier?Amanda: I think they get a little bit easier. I don't know if they're always easy, but it can get a little bit easier. And you get a little bit more comfortable. But sometimes they blindside you, and they aren't easy. I had an IEP meeting the other day, and I came out and cried, and it wasn't even a tough one.Lexi: Is it just so emotional to have a bunch of potential strangers talking about your kid and what they think he needs?Amanda: I think so. I also think that there's just this piece of it where you're ready for anything, and then there's just sort of either a letdown or an anger or an overload or just this emotional wellspring.Lexi: What did you do right afterwards?Amanda: I ate lots of chocolate.Lexi: Yeah, I thought that might be what you would say.Lexi: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood for Parents. Our website is Understood.org, where you can find all sorts of free resources for people raising kids with learning and thinking differences. We also want to hear what you think of this podcast. "In It" is for you. We want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to see show notes from this episode and find more resources. That's the letter U, as in U, u.org/podcast.Amanda: And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Share it with the parents at your bus stop. Tell your special education support group. Or you can send a link to your child's pediatrician. You can also go to Apple podcasts and rate us, which is a great way to let other people know about "In It.".Lexi: You can subscribe to "In It" on Apple podcasts. Follow us on Spotify, or keep up with us however you listen to podcasts. Between episodes, you can find understood on Facebook, Twitter, and Pinterest, or visit our website: U.org/podcast. That's the letter U, dot org, slash podcast. And come back next episode when we'll be talking about what happens when somebody asks you, "Is ADHD real?" Parent: The most clueless thing that somebody said to me about ADHD is basically that it is just an excuse. It's just an excuse to medicate kids. It's just an excuse for lazy kids that don't want to do homework.Lexi: "In It" is a production Understood for Parents. Our show is produced by Blake Eskin of Noun and Verb Rodeo and Julie Subrin. We record at Argot Studios. Mike Errico wrote our theme music and Laura Kusnyer is the director of editorial content at Understood for Parents.Amanda: We appreciate you all being in it with us. And thanks for listening. Talk to you next time.
Daymond John and Mom: Learning From Experience
Shark Tank star Daymond John, who has dyslexia, chats with his mother in this series of exclusive Understood videos. Together they share stories—including how she encouraged him to read and how he started FUBU, his clothing line. They talk about “the lightbulb moment” when he figured out he had dyslexia. And she gives her advice for other parents of kids with dyslexia.
In ItADHD TikTok 101 with Dr. Sasha Hamdani
Many kids and teens go to TikTok for information on ADHD. But is everything they find on TikTok legit? How can we help our kids navigate TikTok? Many kids and teens — and even adults — go to TikTok for information on ADHD. They search for tips, advice, personal stories, and sometimes even a diagnosis. But is everything they find on TikTok legit? How can we help our kids navigate TikTok, especially when we may not even understand it ourselves?In this episode, hosts Rachel Bozek and Gretchen Vierstra learn all about the world of ADHD TikTok with Dr. Sasha Hamdani. Dr. Sasha is a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD and anxiety. She also has ADHD, and she uses TikTok and other social media platforms to provide ADHD tips and debunk myths. Tune in to hear Dr. Sasha explain why many people with ADHD find TikTok helpful — and what to watch out for.Related resourcesTikTok creators show the “real” ADHDHear Dr. Sasha’s story on ADHD Aha! ADHD and emotions, from anxiety to boredomDr. Sasha on TikTokDr. Sasha’s book: Self-Care for People With ADHD: 100+ Ways to Recharge, De-Stress, and Prioritize You!Episode transcriptGretchen: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It," a podcast about the ins and outs...Rachel: ...the ups and downs...Gretchen: ...of supporting kids who learn and think differently. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer and editor raising two kids with ADHD. Today we're talking about the wonderful, sometimes overwhelming world of ADHD TikTok.Gretchen: Yes, ADHD TikTok is a thing. People go there to exchange information, tips, and stories. And one bright light in that messy, noisy world is Dr. Sasha.Rachel: Sasha Hamdani is a psychiatrist based in Kansas City, specializing in ADHD and anxiety disorders. And in the past few years, she's also become an influencer, thanks to her informative, accessible, and sometimes deeply personal short videos on TikTok and Instagram. These posts routinely get hundreds of thousands of likes. Here's one where she explains what it's like to experience what she calls executive dysfunction.Dr. Sasha: To ask yourself these questions, do you often forget appointments and tasks? Do you have a hard time putting thoughts and abstract concepts into words? Do you have a hard time navigating setbacks? Are you miserable at multi-step directions? Have you ever tried to assemble an IKEA desk without instructions? Because they seem complicated, then you get overwhelmed and basically weld together two pieces that should never have gone together. Then get even more overwhelmed when you try to pull it apart. So, you push it to the side of the room where it will remain till the end of time.Gretchen: If you listen to "ADHD Aha!," one of the other podcasts in the Understood Network, you may have heard Dr. Sasha talk about her own ADHD journey. She was first diagnosed in fourth grade and began taking medication soon after, but she didn't actually know she had ADHD until she embarked on an accelerated medical school program straight out of high school.Rachel: Under that intense pressure and on her own for the first time, things fell apart. It was only then that she found out her diagnosis. This led first to a lot of pain and confusion and then to a deep dive into how ADHD affects the brain, the body, our thoughts, and our feelings.Gretchen: It's an incredible story and I highly recommend you go listen to it if you haven't already. But today, we wanted to talk to Dr. Sasha about what she's up to now.Rachel: Specifically, we've invited her to walk us through the world of ADHD TikTok. What does it have to offer people who are trying to understand ADHD? And where does it sometimes lead us astray?Gretchen: So, Dr. Sasha, nice to see you and nice to have you here.Dr. Sasha: Yeah, likewise.Gretchen: We're so excited to talk TikTok with you today. But before we get into that, let's look back to a time when there was no TikTok. You were diagnosed with ADHD back in the nineties, though, as you've said elsewhere, you didn't know about the diagnosis at the time. Even so, do you remember other kids or grown-ups talking about ADHD and how they talked about it back then?Dr. Sasha: So, I try to remember back, and I think honestly, I don't remember it being part of the discourse at all. And keep in mind, I'm in fourth grade, like I don't know what we're talking about. I became more aware of that concept in general, not that I had it, but that concept in general in high school, and it was used to describe like when a boy was acting out of control and couldn't keep it together.Gretchen: Totally.Dr. Sasha: And it was actually part of like a slang or almost like a put down like fat kid. And we weren't using ADHD yet. "That kid is so ADHD" or "They can't stay in their seat. They can't keep their hands to themselves." So, that was kind of, in my limited scope of things, that was my understanding of it.Gretchen: Mm hmm. I mean, I remember people using ADD as a negative term and a put down, like you said. So, now that you work with patients who have ADHD, do you get a sense that that same kind of put down or that shame and embarrassment around ADHD is part of their experience?Dr. Sasha: I think it's less because we're talking about it more, and I think that just happens as you increase cultural competence around a certain topic and as you just open up dialog. I think that people still do experience quite a bit of stigma and not just in the early childhood or early adolescence period, but I think it bleeds over into adulthood also, like when they're trying to figure out accommodations for work or trying to figure out how they approach this with a loved one or a spouse or a partner or whatever. So, I think that there is still a pretty significant stigma, although it is less.Gretchen: OK. Makes sense.Rachel: So, let's pivot now and talk about how TikTok has become part of the conversation around ADHD. And first, can you just explain what TikTok is and how people, especially young people, use it these days? I think there are probably some parents and caregivers out there in our listening world who are maybe not in the know or still learning about the phenomenon of TikTok. And honestly, that includes me because every time I think I'm like, "OK, I've got it," I'll come across some new feature. And then I'm like, "Oh, no, no, I don't really understand this at all."Gretchen: Same with me.Rachel: So, tell us about the TikTok.Dr. Sasha: Sure. From the history of what I understood about it, it started off primarily as a music app. People would use it for learning dances and lip-synching, and there's still a significant portion of that. But early in quarantine, we saw that it really exploded, and it started to take off more as this social media channel and platform that people could use to connect to each other and then really exposing us more to this vertical video form in small, digestible chunks. And you just kind of scroll through.So, for people with ADHD and things, it's, you know, you can find yourself just spending a lot of time there. And so I think, number one, that's part of the appeal of it. And number two, that's part of the reason why I think ADHD was so talked about during that time because I think it just naturally lended to people of neurodivergence whose brains were moving faster, really gravitated towards that form of media.Gretchen: My kids do a lot of the dance portions, and I may have been roped into some. Never posted, just saved in drafts.Dr. Sasha: Sure.Gretchen: Your mother cannot be posted.Rachel: I do know about saved in draft.Gretchen: But if I were to go on TikTok though, and type in ADHD, what is going to come up?Dr. Sasha: A lot is going to come up. So, first and foremost, it's important to understand that both with TikTok, and actually with a lot of the algorithms, their interest based. So, depending on what you're clicking on and what you're engaging with, you're going to see more of that. So, if you type in ADHD and you're already kind of moving down this ADHD pathway of like what happens with the emotional side of ADHD or things like that, you're going to get a lot of that. If you are down the unfortunate rabbit hole of is ADHD real or not, you're going to get a lot of that.So, it kind of depends on what you've been interacting with, but there's kind of all different spectrums. There's educational stuff, there is lived stories, stuff of people talking about their own experience. There is marketing for ADHD-related medication apps and behavioral management apps. I think ADHD is kind of become a little bit of a buzzword on the Internet right now. And so, I think there's also a lot of exploitation of ADHD in that a lot of people are using that to hook an audience in for relatability.Rachel: Right.Dr. Sasha: There's a lot there's good, there's bad, there's garbage, there's tons.Rachel: Yeah. So, I think it's fair to say that the ADHD presence on TikTok is a phenomenon. What would you say are the pros and cons of this phenomenon? I mean, we can start with the pros. Is there good stuff out there? Helpful information. I mean, I think your content is really helpful.Dr. Sasha: Yeah. So, I think there is a lot of good. So, when I originally started, I started in December of 2020, and it was because I was seeing patients remotely and they were showing me videos like via telehealth, and I was like, "No, no, no, that's not a thing." And so, I originally started posting videos to kind of counteract some of that information. But then as I immersed myself more in it, there were really good avenues of information and a lot of physicians were getting on there, a lot of behavioral therapists, a lot of authors.So, I felt like there was a really good source of information from TikTok. But in order to get to that solid source of information, you're also exposed to some not-so-solid information. And so, you're left to kind of sort through. And unfortunately for some of those, not-so-good information, like if you are getting a lot of fighting in the comments, if you are getting a lot of engagement that's pushing this video up the algorithm and eventually you kind of start to lose sight of is while this video has 10 million views, that must mean it's accurate. Not like "This video is 10 million views because it's garbage."Rachel: Right. Can you give us an example of a specific time where you were like, "No, that's not a thing." Or like, "This is actually not helpful."Dr. Sasha: I mean, the video that I originally wanted to, I remember the patient showed me a video of someone who sneezed multiple times in a row, and that it was a sign of neurodivergence. And I was like....Gretchen: What? Dr. Sasha: What? And then I was like, "Wait, I do sneeze multiple times in a row." And I'm like, "No, what? No."Gretchen: It's like a horoscope. You just read into it, right?Dr. Sasha: I know. And so, I'm like, "This is crazy. This is not diagnostic criteria. What is this?" So, there's stuff like that. There was a lot of stuff like if you can follow multiple songs at once, you have ADHD. So, it's like very clickbaity stuff that people were reading into and they were like, "Oh, I have this." And so, the problem is, is that to be totally frank with you, self-diagnosis actually doesn't bother me very much. I have a problem with self-treatment.So, in terms of self-diagnosis, like, I think it's important to understand and find names for your own internal environment. Be curious, ask questions about what's going on internally because you're, you should be the expert on your own brain. But a lot of people don't have the training to kind of sift together and figure out all these multiple data points. And that's why seeing a professional can be helpful in trying to figure out and cement or corroborate is this the right diagnosis? Were you missing something? And may help you with, if that needs treatment in some regard.Gretchen: Right. Right. And so, like the sneezing example — that's such a good example of you know, something that I could see my kids watching and being like, "Oh, mom, I must have this. Right?" So, I like that your work, you include a lot of explainers and concrete information about ADHD in your social media posts. What are some of the ideas or maybe misconceptions that you in particular are focused on trying to tackle?Dr. Sasha: I think the biggest one I'm trying to tackle is that ADHD is very nuanced. And so I think that's part of the reason why it's important to get that formal diagnosis because I don't think a lot, especially for females, there's not a lot of good concrete information about the emotional component and the dysregulation that happens there.And so, that's where you get a lot of misdiagnoses with depression and anxiety and cycling mood disorders and things like that where it's really ADHD. And so, you're on these heavy hitter medications which are hurting you more than they're helping you when really you're just misdiagnosed. So, I think it's important to just kind of recognize that that could be a phenomenon happening.Rachel: We already touched on this a bit, but I'd love to talk a little more about this phenomenon of people casually throwing around the ADHD label, kind of using it as shorthand for like, "Oh, I'm easily distracted," or "I go down a rabbit hole watching YouTube videos for hours." What's your feeling about that?Dr. Sasha: So, I think it's important to recognize, like number one, as someone who does have ADHD, that's so annoying to me, it's so objectively annoying. Like in medical school when at was first, figuring out this diagnosis and I had a lot of peers that were like, "Well, I do that too." And I'm like, "You really don't, because it's not impacting you in the same..." like everybody has distractible moments for sure. But this is so pervasive in nature. It's my all-day, everyday state. And so, I think that it's really annoying. But how I've learned to handle things like that is to instead of approaching it with like immediate animosity, which was my go-to for a long time, is approaching it with curiosity, right?And so, like sometimes people are, number one, they're doing that because truly they think that ADHD is just this piecemeal kind of diagnosis where if you're sometimes distractible, and so that might be an episode where you can educate and you could be like, "That's interesting that you're having those phenomenons. I'm sure you know how it feels. What's interesting about how I present it is that it is all the time." And so, you could use that as an educational thing, or you can also approach it in like this sense of curiosity. Like maybe they really do have ADHD...Rachel: Yeah.Dr. Sasha: ...and they don't have resources and they don't know where to start this journey. And so, using it as like, "OK, they might be trying to open up a dialog about that. How can I help you?"Gretchen: I mean, I've heard my own kids talking about kids they know who have ADHD and like, "Oh yeah, like they do this" or Oh, that's because, you know, she got distracted because of this." And they seem to, they seem to know it. But then sometimes I fear, though, that the way that kids are talking about it is maybe to like just off the cuff, like, I don't know, it feels like there could be sometimes a fine line drawn between those two areas.Dr. Sasha: Yeah, I would say that I think it's important to just not be on either end of the spectrum, right? And not overly stigmatized and not overly nonchalant about it. But at the same time, like if I had to pick I'd rather be the more nonchalant about it because I think that it's that inherent stigma, like such a significant limitation to care because people are so reluctant to carry that diagnosis because of it. And so, if people are like, "Ah, whatever,"...Gretchen: Right?Dr. Sasha: ...OK, fine. Like, you can get treated and you can go forward, and you could feel a little bit more normal in settings that you might have previously felt were issues.Gretchen: Yeah.Rachel: So, taking a step back, can you talk about social media a little bit more broadly? What impact are you seeing it have on your patients?Dr. Sasha:Social media has a lot more impact than it did ten years ago for sure, and ten years before that it didn't even exist. So, like, I think that we're moving to a period in our culture where social media is such an influence because it's replacing our news, it's replacing our correspondence, it's replacing how we interact with each other. And so, now we're heading to this singular source to kind of fill multiple, multiple needs, which inherently increases how important it is to us.Rachel: Mm hmm.Dr. Sasha: So, I think that based on that increase in importance, yeah, of course, it's impacting my patients and myself hugely, right? I mean, it's become such a significant portion of your life. And you realize that when you spend so much time on social media that you're like, "OK, this is, it's having significant impact." Now, what I will say is just like, circling back to the beginning part of this conversation about those algorithms being interest based, it's really important to be conscious of that.And this is what I talk to about my patients, if you're spending a significant amount of time on social media, it's important to be conscious of the content you consume because what's going to happen is you're going to be fed that content more and more often, and social media should be a safe place for you. It should be a place that's very cultivated.So, if there's something that you're like, "Ooh, this makes me feel bad about myself. Oh, I'm comparing myself too much. I feel unsettled after watching that," you should block, you should mute, you should get off of that trend. And that involves people as well. Like if there's social interactions that you are not feeling at the time, I feel like it’s social media, is the place to protect your peace. It's important.Gretchen: That's good advice. And so, then if you're a parent trying to pass on some advice to your kids about being on social media, do you have any advice about that, about how parents should be talking to their kids about it?Dr. Sasha: So, I've thought about this because I've thought about how to handle it with my own children — I mean, I don't know what it's going to even look like when they get old enough to deal with that. But I think my go-to is going to literally pull out an anatomy textbook and be like, "This is your frontal lobe. This is not developed." The frontal lobe, judgment processing, it's all about input of data and figuring out what to do with it with a young and developing brain. You're being flooded at all times with input.And so, if you're not getting the right kind of input, that's going to shape how you mature and develop. And so, to put those expectations on a young child of how to responsibly consume content is really difficult. So, I think it needs parental mediation for sure.Rachel: Well, on that note, you know, a lot of kids use TikTok, we know. How young is too young? Or is there such a thing as too young to be posting on TikTok? Like, at what point is someone kind of like in the right place to do that?Dr. Sasha: I don't know. So, I started building an ADHD app and initially I wanted, I really loved the community component of TikTok and social media, and I wanted to bring that, but I decided not to because I couldn't do a good enough job moderating what was in there. And I feel like that's one of the biggest drawbacks.And so, if you're allowing kids to post and you are allowing kids to consume content on that, there's not a whole lot of filtering you can do. There's just not. There's not, you can't control what other people are saying to them. You can't control what other people are viewing. You can't control and limit it, I mean, I guess you could do friends only, but like there are workarounds on that.So, it really is a case-to-case dependent situation and it really depends on your parenting philosophy. I don't, I can't give a good answer because I don't think there is one answer.Gretchen: Yeah.Rachel: Yes. And I really, this has been really helpful for me, and I really appreciate it. And I've been showing my daughter some of your videos because I'm like, "Well, if you want to see TikTok, I'm going to show you some TikTok."Dr. Sasha: There you go. I think the other thing that TikTok does, which is great, is that it opens up dialog. You know, that becomes a new form of communication. You're sending TikToks that are relatable to the other person to open up a little bit of conversation. But people do that with their doctors too. They show me but TikToks and are like, "This is exactly like me. I just don't have the words to say it." So, I think it's an interesting phenomenon on that thing too.Gretchen: I never thought about sending a TikTok to my doctor.Dr. Sasha: It's weird. It's not actually like to my doctor, but like in a visit, they're just like, "I want to show you something."Gretchen: Yeah, I usually just have a post-it note. But maybe next time I'll have something else.Dr. Sasha: Just pull a TikTok.Rachel: I just have a notes app. I'm like, "Hold on. No, that's my grocery. Wait a minute.".Gretchen: Well, Dr. Sasha I want to thank you so much for joining us today. This has been such a good conversation.Rachel: Yes. Thank you so much. This was really interesting, and it was so great to meet you.Dr. Sasha: Yeah, likewise. It was so fun.Gretchen:To hear more from Dr. Sasha, check out her TikTok @thepsychdoctormd, or as we mentioned before, on our very own "ADHD Aha!"podcast.Rachel: Also, she's got a book out. It's called "Self-Care for People With ADHD," and it's full of life hacks and insights.Gretchen: Last but not least, Dr. Sasha tells us her new app called Focus Genie should be out in the world in the next month or two, so keep an eye out for that. You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network.Rachel: This show is for you. So, we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Gretchen: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Rachel: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission.Gretchen: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music.Rachel: For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.Gretchen: And thanks for always being in it with us.
ADHD Aha!“Everything Everywhere All at Once” and ADHD
Laura talks with film writer and editor Ariel Fisher about Best Picture winner Everything Everywhere All at Once and its many connections to ADHD. Laura talks film writer editor Ariel Fisher Best Picture winner Everything Everywhere many connections ADHD. making movie ADHD “aha” moment director Daniel Kwan. film feels like depiction ADHD brain. characters film show ADHD behaviors. Fisher, ADHD, also talks film reflects ADHD journey — getting evaluated diagnosed taking ADHD medication. Related resources Read director Daniel Kwan’s ADHD “aha” momentCheck Ariel Fisher’s piece Everything Everywhere ADHDLearn ADHD brainEpisode transcriptLaura: Understood Podcast Network, "ADHD Aha!," podcast people share moment finally clicked someone know ADHD. name Laura Key. I'm editorial director Understood. someone who's ADHD "aha" moment, I'll host. I'm today freelance writer editor Ariel Fisher. Ariel ADHD she's written number online film television publications, including piece wrote last year Slash Film called "Everything Everywhere Once, Stopped Fighting Learned Love Brain." Welcome, Ariel. Thanks here.Ariel: Thank much me.Laura: I'm excited here. I'm going lie. I'm little bit nervous, you, different approach us "ADHD Aha!" bonus episode; going talking "Everything Everywhere Once." film critic. know are, not. going centering episode around film, won huge Oscars recently, took home seven statues, including Best Picture. allow little bit preamble, Ariel, jump in.Ariel: Absolutely.Laura: want ground audience we're going talking today. So, I'm hoping go three things. third one important it's you, Ariel. first thing want chat creating movie, "Everything Everywhere Once," "aha" moment one directors film Daniel Kwan. So, chat that.I want talk movie portrays ADHD, whether that's intentional not, also movie kind feel like inside ADHD brain people reacted that. think third thing want get is, story parallels see film experience ADHD. So, I'm excited talk that. first thing want chat saw film, know creating film ADHD "aha" moment Daniel Kwan?Ariel: part, hearing look intergenerational trauma families passed much pressure specifically Chinese families. Obviously, focus this. co-worker Hana, brought felt like ADHD. like, "Oh, OK, I'm sold." mean, really intrigued, like, "OK, go see this. see what's going this."Laura: yet point, movie many things. mean, hence title especially articulately summed there. ADHD is, know, don't want imply movie ADHD intention creating film. want read quote article Salon.com kind took breath away. author article asking directors, Daniel Kwan Daniel Scheinert, Daniels, ADHD influence film, Daniel Kwan replied said making film, aware ADHD connection.So, started researching it, quote writer article. "I stayed like four morning reading everything could find it, ADHD, crying, realizing that, "Oh God, think ADHD." So, movie reason got diagnosed. So, freaked read is, that's "aha" moment show called "ADHD Aha!" mean, think that?Ariel: So, remember hearing hearing interview talked connection ADHD, struck much. Like was, genuinely wasn't really prepared, also familiar sensation, moment brain lights go, "Oh, me. this."And think it's fascinating started place wanting respectful. Like, like, "Well, brain everywhere once? kind sounds like ADHD probably look respectful order portray accurately like stereotype."So, starting main reason even started investigating first place, wound giving really interesting foundation make something legitimately good representation invisible illnesses, ADHD specifically, like idea something like never forefront minds. was, guess background Daniel Kwan's mind, became forefront project.And watch this, I'm digressing, course, I'm going tangent. look rest work like music videos stuff, kind makes sense. kind go, "Oh yeah, no, definitely ADHD. Yeah, sure."Laura: Yeah, think remember reading Michelle Yeoh, plays Evelyn also won Best Actress, fabulous, kind almost like avatar ADHD behaviors. notice that? come mind you?Ariel: Oh, yeah. Well, watching movie, was, actually really surreal. got diagnosed 33, I'm 35 now, so, watching like watching pre-diagnosis. Watching her, like watching Michelle Yeoh's character, specifically watching Evelyn, watching pre-diagnosis Ariel. interesting watching Michelle Yeoh kind this, like father. Like saw traits saw ADHD older generation hasn't yet diagnosed, resistant it, isn't really, kind dismisses like, "Well, no, that's me."And, know, kind like line movie says, "Well, no, that's know, know am. You're young. brain still changing, you're still figuring things out. know am." that's, know, know clue time. that's what's much is.Like depictions ADHD became kind ineffable qualities ADHD I've kind started realize whole life. like Jobu head tilt thing clicks back she's able kind tap different parts multiverse simultaneously. It's, makes think every single time I've gone, "Oh, wait, learned that. Yeah, totally, know, zero specific thing or, know, access part mind something learned taught hyper-fixation moment like 10 years ago, knew hyper-fixation was."And like, kind comes together really beautiful, chaotic, confusing fusion knowledge, experience, everything. Michelle Yeoh kind moment, also kind translates way. Michelle Yeoh kind really interesting fusion hope younger generation getting diagnosed kind realizing superpower disillusionment denial older generation thinking there's nothing done it, ignore it. "Oh, it's bad. Oh, it's so. It's that." Whatever.Laura: love Jobu head tilt thing mentioned. hadn't thought way. that's, really interesting way putting it. felt lot ADHDness, guess, Evelyn character she's sitting desk Jamie Lee Curtis works she's totally, guess could say, zoning she's multiple rooms people like, "Are here?" comes back room like...Ariel: Yes, yes. I'm here, I'm here.Laura:...this kind of, I'm here, dissociating maybe, like, just, distracted. So, mean, catch well? I'm sure did.Ariel: Oh yeah. Oh, sure. moment where, like middle thought sudden, you're wondering pasta dinner. And...Laura:Right, right.Ariel: ...then snap back you're like, "Wait minute, talking about? Oh, shit." It's weird kind coexistence mind feel like it's everywhere once.Laura: Yeah, exactly. mean, title itself, Ariel, it's like blows mind. "Everything Everywhere Once." therapy session kind rolled tongue describing ADHD challenges had. like, "It sounds like brain chaos." like, "Yeah, brain chaos right now. can't compartmentalize."I mean, actually really appreciated separated film three thirds, even though, like we're going talk Everything. we're going talk Everywhere. Now, end, we're going talk Once. needed
Video: Activist David Flink on growing up with ADHD and dyslexia
David Flink knows how hard it is to keep being told to “just try harder.” Watch this series of videos as the founder and chief empowerment officer of Eye to Eye, a founding partner of Understood, looks back on growing up with ADHD and dyslexia. Find out what helped him not just survive but flourish. See how to become a “learning detective” and make other changes that can help your child.
The Opportunity GapDiverse impact: Champions of change at Understood
Learn how four members of the Understood team are making an impact in the lives of people with learning and thinking differences.In celebration of Black History Month, Julian highlights four members of the Understood team: Berman Fenelus, Senior Content ProducerLivingston Steele, Social Media ManagerMisha Williams, Grants and Relationships ManagerDeb Wilson, Chief People & Culture OfficerEach of them is making an impact in the lives of people with learning and thinking differences, from silencing shame and stigma to promoting inclusion. Learn the reasons why they choose to do this work. Related resourcesBlack History Month: Celebrating Lois, Solange, and OctaviaWisdom for families from LeDerick Horne, poet with dyslexiaTo be Black in America with a learning disabilityEpisode transcriptJulian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. And there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child. My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host. Welcome to Season 3. Today's episode is a really unique one and I'm super hyped about it. February is Black History Month. It's a time to honor and celebrate the rich cultural heritage, the contributions, and the sacrifices of African Americans. Now y'all know I'm an educator, and I'm a Black male educator. So, it's only right that I share some history with you a little bit. Let's get ready. Ring the bell. Class is in session. Let's take it back. The story of Black History Month begins in 1915, half a century after the 13th Amendment to the Constitution abolished slavery in the United States. In September of 1915, a Harvard-trained historian named Carter G. Woodson and a minister named James E. Moreland founded the Association for the Study of Negro Life in History. This organization took immense pride in researching and promoting the achievements by Black Americans. In 1926, they sponsored a National Negro History Week, and they chose the second week of February to coincide with the birthdays of Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass. By the late 1960s, Negro History Week had evolved into Black History Month on many college campuses all across the country. This was thanks to the Civil Rights movement and a growing awareness of Black identity. President Gerald Ford officially recognized Black History Month in 1976. That's right y'all. The president recognized Black History Month in 1976. He called upon the public to seize the opportunity to honor the too-often neglected accomplishments of Black Americans in every area of endeavor throughout our history. So, now that our history has been shared — class is over now — now that our history has been shared, let me explain today's special, special episode. Last year on the show, we did something a little different. We celebrated three Black women: science fiction author Octavia E. Butler, Grammy Award winner Solange Knowles, and activist Lois Curtis. All of them have been changemakers in their own way. And if you haven't checked that episode out, please make sure you go back and check it out. This year, we're going to switch it up a little bit. This year, we're celebrating our own here, right at Understood: Berman Fenelus, Livingston Steele, Misha Williams, and Deb Wilson. We're calling this episode "Diverse impact: Champions of change at Understood." I think everyone's going to enjoy getting to know them. Getting to know their role right here at Understood, and learning how they're making a difference in the lives of kids and adults with learning and thinking differences. I am so, so excited for them to be on the show. So first up, please welcome Berman. Berman, what's really good? How are you? Welcome to the show!Berman: Thanks. Thanks for having me.Julian: Berman, can you introduce yourself to the audience and tell us a little bit about the work you do here at Understood? Berman: My name is Berman Fenelus, senior content producer at Understood. And I create content across the board for our partnerships, for our internal videos, and social. Julian: What kind of content do you create? Berman: It varies. There's some content that we work with individuals that have learning and thinking differences but aren't necessarily, you know, like actors or talent. And, we also create content with experts that help guide people through difficult situations. Some stuff is animation, but overall, most of the content is here to help people learn how to achieve and thrive to be the best they can be. Julian: How are you making an impact?Berman: From this job I've learned to be very conscious of what I put on the screen and what we output and how people could receive it. And I think, I just I'm always open to trying to make things as accessible to as many different people as possible. Julian: Since you've been on Understood, has there been an experience that's felt super rewarding? Berman: There's been tons of experiences. When we were working on "Quarantine Chronicles," which was a series about families with kids with learning and taking differences. We got really close with a lot of the families, and we learned just as much as they learned from us. And also we recently did a campaign called "Many Faces of Learning and Thinking Differences," where we spoke to different individuals of wide backgrounds in different ages, and I learned more from the person, from the nine-year-old, than I did from the oldest person there. But I also learned from that person, because their experiences are unique to that time, and they were kind of like a timestamp of what it was like growing up with the learning and thinking differences during that time. Julian: Learning from one another's experiences, I love that. Thank you Berman. Next up, Livingston. Livingston is the social media manager for Understood. Livingston, what's going on? Welcome to the OG. Livingston: Hey, Julian. Thank you for having me. Julian: As the social media manager. How are you making a difference? Livingston: As a social media manager, we're making a difference by creating different ways of showing people who have learning and thinking differences that they're not alone. Julian: What's the most rewarding part of your job? Livingston: The most rewarding thing of my job is being able to relate to millions of people who I would have never been able to. In a way, connect different types of pain points or things that we go through with having ADHD, whether you're 10 years old or you're 40. Julian: Can you tell us about a time you were able to relate to a person that you didn't expect to? Livingston: There was a time where I was on the podcast with — for "ADHD Aha!" with Laura — and I didn't expect to relate to her in understanding of having ADHD and dealing with perfectionism. From a person that's — she's a director — I wouldn't have assumed that she would have had ADHD or would have went through the same situations I went through, like growing up and like trying to get ahead or trying to mask my ADHD. Julian: Sometimes we have a lot more in common than we think we do. Thanks, Livingston. Now let's talk to Misha. Misha is the grants and relationships manager. Misha, can you tell us a little bit about the work you do here at Understood? Misha: Yes. And so, I am the grants and relationships manager. So, that means that I spend my time bringing funds to the organization by writing grants and building relationships with foundations that are interested in funding our mission. Julian: What made you decide to do this work, specifically here at Understood? Misha: I came to Understood because I found out that a family member of mine, was diagnosed with dyslexia. However, she is 50 years old. And so for her, a lot of things started to make sense. However, kind of sucked that it took that long for her to find out. And so, just thinking about the implications of going undiagnosed for so long on her life and pretty much everything that she's done, made me want to be in a space where I could help foster change and, especially intersectionally. And I came to Understood because, what I saw on the website and what I heard from other people about the work that's being done here. It seemed like something that was really important to be funded, and I wanted to be a part of that and help build out that arm for fundraising. Julian: You are so right. It's very important work that needs to be funded. Thank you. Misha. Deb is the chief people and culture officer for Understood. Welcome to the show Deb! Deb: Julian, thanks for inviting me. I'm so glad to be here today. Julian: Deb, can you tell us a little bit about your role at Understood? Deb: Yeah, sure. So, I've been at Understood — just for a short period of time — since May of last year. And I lead the people and culture team, which literally means all aspects of HR. And, so I'll speak to three of those aspects of my role today. So, as you know, our people are a huge asset. And so, building new capabilities, whether we are the originators or rather we're leveraging relationships to learn new skills, helps our people grow. And, you know, as an educator, Julian, that when people feel that they are growing, they are more engaged. So, that's a critical part of my role. Also, we have an office-first, in-person culture. So, leveraging our beautiful office in the West Village as part of our engagement strategy is key. Again, this helps to support collaboration and our core value of growing together. Julian: Deb, but I really have to ask. In your opinion, why is it so important for organizations like Understood to embrace the idea of diversity? Deb: Yeah, Julian. So, Understood's vision, shaping the world for difference so that all employees who learn and think differently can thrive at every stage of life, truly speaks for itself. All people who learn and think differently. Twenty million people visit our website, Understood.org, every year. And the data shows us that once learning and thinking differences are embraced, and inclusivity is truly valued, confidence is built. Community is created, jobs become careers, and life is more fulfilling. Finally, I'll say, my colleagues tell me that working at Understood is more than a job. It's a mission to shape the world for difference. Julian: Thanks for joining us, Deb. I want to give a big shout-out and a big thank you to Berman, Livingston, Misha, and Deb for joining us today. I admire all of their brilliance and all of their efforts to make a difference for the so many people who are living with learning and thinking differences across this nation. They are an integral part of the Understood's team. Listeners, I really hope that you enjoyed today's episode. Until next time! Enjoy Black History Month. Celebrate our culture, celebrate the achievements, the challenges, the struggles, and everything else that we have overcome. Wish you an enjoyable Black History Month. Let me check up with y'all later on. Thank you for listening. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Tara Drinks, edited by Cin Pim. Ilana Millner is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show for the Understood Podcast Network. Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
ADHD Aha!ADHD, social awkwardness, and ghosting (Allison’s story)
Allison O’Keefe worried she annoyed her friends — only for one friend to confirm that feeling. But has her recent ADHD diagnosis changed how she sees herself? Allison O’Keefe, a UX designer in Detroit, always felt she rubbed people the wrong way. Then, in her early teen years, one of her friends confirmed it when she called Allison “the annoying friend” behind her back. This made Allison more cautious in social situations, which often overwhelmed her. Worse, she also found herself accidentally “ghosting” people, forgetting to respond to their messages.Eventually, a therapist asked her if she’d ever been diagnosed with ADHD, and the diagnosis started to make a lot of sense. She now feels less isolated — even as she still grapples with how open she wants to be about her ADHD.How do folks with ADHD navigate these choppy social waters? Listen in as Laura and Allison sort through these questions and more.Related resources5 ways ADHD can affect social skillsADHD and oversharingADHD and feeling guilty or remorseful Episode transcriptAllison: I asked my boyfriend if he had ever suspected, and he was like, "Yeah, it makes sense." He would call me very bubbly when we first started dating, so he saw quite a few symptoms where after I brought it up from that diagnosis, he was like, "Yeah, this all makes sense to me."Laura: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they or someone they know has ADHD. My name is Laura Key, I'm the editorial director here at Understood, and as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host. I'm here today with Allison O'Keefe. Allison is a UX designer based in Detroit, and she's also a listener who wrote in. So, thank you so much, Allison, for being here. Thank you for being a listener. How are you doing today?Allison: I'm good. I'm really excited to be here.Laura: Let's start with you sharing your diagnosis story. When did you get diagnosed?Allison: In August of 2021. I was struggling a little bit at work, and my workplace is actually very supportive with mental health and wellbeing. So, I attended a webinar because I had no idea how to start therapy. And the key takeaway that I got from it like to start was like, write down what has been hard to manage, and my hard-to-manage bullet points were anxiety and worry, forgetfulness, trouble focusing, trouble falling asleep, and intrusive thoughts. So, that is what I went into therapy with, and my goals for therapy were better-coping mechanisms and not worrying, and being able to focus. Those are my goals.Laura: OK, we'll take care of that in a week or so.Allison: Right, yeah. And so, when I started the initial appointment, I went through the questionnaire, and the therapist, my therapist asked if I had ever been diagnosed with ADHD and I had not. It was a surprise to me that it is something that came up that she asked if I had been diagnosed for.Laura: Had you ever considered ADHD prior to that?Allison: No, it's not anything that ever crossed my mind. Funnily enough, after that first initial appointment, I asked my boyfriend if he had ever suspected and he was like, "Yeah, a little bit. It makes sense." So...Laura: Yeah, tell me more about that. What, did he give you any more detail?Allison: It was really just like the symptoms that you see and people who do have ADHD. He had a front-row view of, since we've been living together for the last couple of years, being very impulsive with buying things and being very hyperactive. He would call me very bubbly when we first started dating, so he saw quite a few symptoms where after I brought it up from that diagnosis, he was like, "Yeah, this all makes sense to me."Laura: Bubbly. I'm really interested to hear this term. I love unpacking euphemisms that we use for ADHD symptoms, and that's just one that I had never heard before. What do you think he meant by bubbly?Allison: I think he meant like very excitable, and I have definitely felt that way even in our relationship and just with friendships in general where I'm like very excitable. I've always said that, like, really small things will make me excited, and I get very, like, interested in things. When somebody brings up a topic, I get very invested and like excited about whatever the thing is. So, I think that is what he meant by bubbly.Laura: We'll come back to that. Let's stick with your diagnosis story for a moment. So, your therapist raises the question, "Have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD?" It's interesting that your therapist went straight to "Have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD" as opposed to "Have you ever considered ADHD?"Allison: Yeah. Yeah. And she definitely did let it sit with me for a little while till I looked into different resources of ADHD, like across the Internet. I actually took a look at like the DSM-5. I started watching YouTube videos and I downloaded podcasts, which is how I found this one. And she really let me sit with it for a little while just to, like, make sure that it fit for what I was feeling and what I was experiencing. She didn't want to just jump to the conclusion and label me with ADHD without like having that consent from me. Like saying that, "Yes, this is something that that does resonate with me and my experiences that I was having."Laura: The last time that we chatted, I wrote down this phrase that you used. You said that ADHD for you was never in the, quote, realm of possibility.Allison: Yeah. Nobody in my life had ever been diagnosed with ADHD before, so it wasn't something that I was familiar with, even like the old term ADD like that, that never came up anywhere. Like teachers that I had in grade school or high school. It was just never something that ever came up. And I feel like it fits a lot of ADHD people, like out of sight, out of mind, Like it wasn't something that I was aware of growing up.Laura: You know, to the best of your — that your memory allows. What kinds of ADHD symptoms do you think you were experiencing, even though you weren't aware of it at the time?Allison: Definitely chattiness. I was definitely a chatty kid. I got in trouble for that a couple of times in school. I would be passing notes or I would just be like talking in class. Funnily enough, I was also learning sign language with a friend, so we would be like talking and sign language across the classroom. And I did get in trouble for that, but chattiness and a lot of forgetfulness. Like forgetting to do homework and bring homework home. I believe I actually forgot to, like, get something signed by my parents for band. And because I forgot that and I wanted to participate, I forged my mom's signature, and of course, my band teacher was like, "That is not a mom's signature, that is a child." So, I did get in trouble for that. I also had a lot of brain hyperactivity all the time where I was just constantly thinking, and I could never shut my brain off. And because I was in like sports and stuff, I think that the being in sports and sort of like wearing myself out every day, I was able to sort of like get out some of that hyperactivity where I could focus a little bit more.Laura: What sports did you play?Allison: I played soccer, and I did cross country.Laura: Very tiring sports, and a way to get out a lot of energy, yeah.Allison: Yes. But it was also very funny, actually. I was very slow. I was not fast, but the girls that I ran with were also slow. And we just used that time to talk.Laura: Of course.Allison: Yes. It was a great time to talk.Laura: That's nice. Forgetting to get things signed or forgetting to hand things in, I like when people bring that up because it's just this really great example of ADHD in action, especially things that parents can notice early. Like as an early indicator, it's like, "Oh, my kid did the work," or "My kid, you know, understands the work, but it just didn't make it to the teacher." Yeah.Allison: And I think I mean, schools hand out those planners to the kids like the first day of school or whatever. And I remember being very excited to fill out the planner, but I don't know that I necessarily remember to, like, keep up with it.Laura: Yeah.Allison: It's just so much structure that they want you to utilize. But I mean, I think a lot of people who do have ADHD know that like structure is great, but it is also sometimes a prison where you have to like, stick with that. And that I think was always very difficult for me.Laura: Don't remember if this adjective that you used for yourself growing up was something you shared with me when we chatted before, or if it was from your email that you sent in. But I remember that you used the word annoying. Kids considered you annoying. I say this with love, Allison. I hope you know I don't think you're annoying. I want you to know this.Allison: Yeah, it is definitely something that I still struggle with today. I was definitely very excitable, as we've talked about, and I was always very constantly chatting, and I definitely have a tendency to overshare and go a little bit farther than I think most people would. And that really sort of rubbed people the wrong way. And so, because of that, I became the annoying friend. It's actually quite sad. I accidentally came across a text message from people in my friend group where somebody had texted one of my friends saying that I was the annoying friend and my friend group compared to the annoying friend and one of the other friend groups. That was my first sort of initial experience of feeling like, "Oh, the people that I hang around with, they think that I'm annoying and that it was like rubbing them the wrong way where it doesn't necessarily like make them want to be around me," which is really sad. I think I was in middle school or like maybe high school, so it's like those formative years where that's not something you want to hear from your friends. And just having that experience definitely stuck with me. And even to this day, I'm very hesitant to like overshare with coworkers and even my friends today, like they have mentioned, like, "Oh, Allison doesn't really share things with us." And it is something that I'm working on with this new friend group specifically because they're my friends and I want to share things with them. But I'm always very like cautious about what I say because it could be something that is just a little overboard and it ends up pushing people who I care about away.Laura: I'm sorry that happened. That kind of thing would stick with me. I can see that it sticks with you and that it impacts how you're approaching your friendships today.Allison: Mm hmm. Yeah.Laura: Part of your racing thoughts, do they involve thinking about yourself and if you, quote-unquote, messed up at any point during the day and maybe were overly annoying or something like that, is that maybe what keeps you up at night sometimes?Allison: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it is definitely like a lot of things just pop into my head. It ends up with me Googling things very late into the night and sending myself notes so that I can look more into it later the next day. But yeah, overthinking tendencies, where I think back to how that day went and my interactions with people throughout the day. The overreactions I definitely think about a lot. And it does sit with me to the point where I usually try to end up like coming back the next day and trying to fix what I might have done the previous day just because it was just sitting with me and sitting in my mind and on my brain. And I won't let it go unless I fix it.Laura: I totally feel you. Sometimes I feel like I'm overbearing because I will come back to that thing that got blown out of proportion in my head. And then in the morning, I'm just waiting for the moment when I can reach out to that person and be like, Hey, I didn't mean to be whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes, like people who get me, they're like, "No, it's all good." Like, I would, I didn't even think about it. Most of the time they say, "I didn't even notice that."Allison: Yeah, yeah. And that happens with my boyfriend often where I'll say something and then I have, I can't stop thinking about it. And I come back to him later and I'm like, "I'm so sorry that, like, I overreacted that way or I was in your way." And he'll just be like, "Well, that's fine. That's not something that I've been thinking about."Laura: Yeah, it's such a difficult cocktail, the restless brain, the restless ADHD brain, plus the, when you know you have ADHD and you have awareness of your challenges, or if you encountered a text about being annoying or something like that and you have this awareness of how people perceive you, kids and adults with ADHD, we actually, we have content about this on Understood.org about feeling remorse for things big and small, like completely blown out of proportion. Like "I did this wrong, I screwed this up. It's really hard to cope with." Do you talk to your therapist about this? Or...Allison: Oh, yeah. Just being able to talk with her. And it's after a week of ruminating on things, I really like being able to bring things to her to just talk things out. And it's usually when I do talk things out that it all just starts to feel better. And even if it's something that I've been deliberating or like unable to make up my mind about something, it usually ends with me coming to this realization after I've spoken it out loud of like, "Oh yeah, well, this is why this happened, because X, Y, and Z," or "This is why I've been feeling this way." Like after I get it out into the open and speaking with her and sort of just having her as a sounding board is very, very helpful for me.Laura: So, one of the things I like to do on this show, and the purposes of the show is to help people see through the context of human stories what ADHD symptoms and choices and behaviors can really look like, so that maybe they can spot them in themselves. And there's one thing that you talked about in your email and that we chatted about previously, that isn't something that we've talked a lot about on the show, which is what I call ADHD wishful thinking or over-optimism. I guess I'll pause there and just get your reaction even to that term. ADHD wishful thinking.Allison: That definitely resonates with me just because over my adult years I've definitely been very ambitious in my hobbies and I started with photography back in high school and it was very much like, "Oh, I, I want to become such a good photographer and I want to put my work online and I just want to be fully into the world of photography." It usually happens when, like I tell people like, "This is what I am doing," and then the novelty of it is gone. That actually happened back in 2008, and when I was going to start a photography blog. And I think that was also the last time I did photography, because I let people know like, "Hey, I have something that's really been coming." And then after I posted that on Instagram, I don't think that I touched my camera since, which is a bummer because I really love photography. It's something that's really close to my heart. But I definitely like, go down these sorts of rabbit holes all the time where I'll get very interested or invested in a thing, and I dedicate all of my time to this thing, and it just eats up so much of my mental space and that's all that I can think about. And sometimes it all just go away or sometimes it'll go away prompted by telling people, and then the novelty has gone. It's very, very strange to even just like talk about. But I had read a blog about two girls from Michigan who had sailed around the Great Lakes, and my family has a sailboat. So I was like, "Oh, I connect with us. This is something I can absolutely do. Like, I could sail around Michigan as well. I'm going to look online for a sailboat that I could live on as I sail across the Great Lakes." I put together the route and like all of the places that I had stopped at and to a Google My Maps, I create a Pinterest boards of like how I was going to decorate this boat. And I created a blog that, like the girls, being very aspirational. I was like, "This is, I'm going to write about all of my experiences and like how I'm going to do this." And I honestly truly cannot say what happened. But I at some point I just dropped it all and I no longer wanted to live on a boat and sail across the Great Lakes. It was just gone. So, it's really just like things like that. That is like a very impulsive thing to even consider doing. I mean, I've grown up on a sailboat, but I don't know how to sail one. Laura: It's tangential to your life, but yeah.Allison: Right. Yeah. So, it's just very impulsive things like that where I tend to get very excited and very invested and then all of a sudden the excitement is gone and I'll have moved on to something else. That's, that's wild.Laura: I mean, Alison, do you want to hear the short list of the things that I've tried to invest myself and skills that I wanted to develop that just were gone with? A yes. OK, let's see. Joan of Arc expert and feminist biographer, feminist critiquer of advertising across New York City on billboards and taxicabs and whatnot. I started a Tumblr that lasted three days, rock critic, movie critic, all these things that I've just tried to do. And I'm like, "I'm doing this. This is what I'm going to do." And then I'm like, "Nah, nah." It's fun, but It can be painful, though.Allison: Yeah. Yeah, it is very painful. And it's really, I think, difficult because I want to be doing multiple things at once that I have a lot of like investment and I have a lot of like excitement about. But for whatever reason I can only focus my energy on one of those things. And so, it feels very difficult. And I've spoken to my therapist about this like, I don't understand how people have multiple interests and like dedicate their time to multiple things at one time. It is an enigma to me, and I don't understand that.Laura: There is another thing that you mentioned when we chatted again or in your email. I can't remember, but you talked about ghosting.Allison: Yes.Laura: Tell me about ghosting.Allison: It's happened my entire life. I would start talking with guys from dating apps when like I was still dating and I would just sort of forget they existed and then never text them again. That happened a number of times. I think in the email I mentioned that I had been texting my sister and she was telling me about her own personal interests, and I meant to text her back and I never did, which I felt really bad about. The worst case of my ghosting was an old coworker who had messaged me and she was saying that her boyfriend, they were hiring at his company and that I should get in touch with him if I was interested in like switching jobs and the feeling that I got from just her text message, I hadn't even looked up her boyfriend's message yet, it was just like so overwhelming of like, "I don't even know what to say. I'm so anxious. I need to think about, like, how am I feeling with work right now." And I don't even know that I messaged her back that day. I was just so overwhelmed with this idea of responding to her that I think I took a week and a half to respond. And once I did, I don't think she ever responded because that was kind of like crappy of me. I might have damaged that relationship, to be honest, just because the feelings were too much for me in that moment.Laura: It seems like the ghosting isn't related to forgetfulness, but maybe responding to a text message and maybe finishing a big work project like everything is at the same level. In terms of priority, it's hard to prioritize. Is that accurate?Allison: I think so, yeah. And I think it's sometimes the ghosting ends up because I am overwhelmed and but then it also, as my mom has texted me and I've seen the text message and I completely forget and then she'll text me back the next day asking if I saw her text. And it's just like, "Oh yeah, I just..."Laura: Moms are so good like that.Allison: "I saw it and I forgot to respond." That happens a lot.Laura: My mom will do the same thing. She's like, "Did you see that?" I'm like, "Yeah, I saw." But I don't I can't attribute that to ADHD that much.Allison: Right.Laura: Yeah, I get really overwhelmed because I want to give a thoughtful response.Allison: Yes. Yeah.Laura: It's not malicious. For anybody listening who doesn't have ADHD and you got ghosted by someone who has ADHD, it's most likely not intentional. Let's just put that out there. Maybe the guys from the dating app that might have been, maybe that is they weren't memorable enough, right? That's not on you. But you know, how open are you with other people about the fact that you have ADHD?Allison: Oh, I'm not open about it at all. The only people who know are my therapist, my sister — my sister also guessed that I had ADHD — and my boyfriend. Those are the only people who know.Laura: And I mean, you're early, too, and it takes a long time to share. And you can choose to never share too. It's yours, it's part of your identity, however you want to share that to be interesting. If your friend knew that you had ADHD, I'm not saying that you should have shared that with her, just it would have been interesting if there's more in general, if there's more awareness of ADHD, and if she knows that you have ADHD, she might be like, "Hey, reminder about this."Allison: Yeah. Yeah. And it is definitely something that like I'm grappling with right now, like, I'm not sure yet how — despite the fact that I've come on this podcast and I'm like announcing it to the world that I have ADHD — I'm still sort of grappling with how open I want to be about my diagnosis. I'm actually planning on talking about it with my friends this weekend. I am working on trying to share a little bit more with the people who are close to me. And that's like, I really do want them to know, like I want them to sort of understand more about who I am as a person.Laura: Yeah, and maybe you'll decide that you don't feel comfortable sharing that at all. Or maybe you want to scream it from the rafters. Either way, I think it's awesome, Allison, that you're going to connect with your friends, and you know, you should write us back and let us know how it goes. But if you don't, I won't be offended because I won't consider it to be ghosting. We're just busy people.Allison: OK, I'll do — will write back.Laura: Thank you, Allison, for hanging out with me today. It's been so great to interview you.Allison: Thank you for having me on. I actually had this aspiration at one point I was doing a running blog because I was really into running at one time. And I was also it was when I first started learning about podcasts and listening about all these podcasts, I was like, "I'm going to combine the two." And I started blogging about running and I started blogging about podcasts. And I was always like, "I would love to have my own podcast one day, but I don't even know what I would talk about." So, this has been so much fun, and I loved being here.Laura: Yay! And see, that's an example. It wasn't wishful thinking you're here. It's a step in that direction. So, thank you so much, Allison. I think you're great.Allison: Oh, thank you. This has been awesome.Laura: You've been listening to "ADHD Aha!" from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDAha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently, discover their potential and thrive. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at Understood.org/mission. "ADHD Aha!" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine.Jessamine: Hi everyone.Laura: Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show for the Understood Podcast Network. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, Seth Melnick is our executive producer, and I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.
What first-grade academic skills typically look like in action
First grade is a big year for kids. They’re learning lots of new things about reading, writing, and math. And while every child develops at their own pace, these videos can help you get a sense of what academic skills kids typically work on this year.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!Horse saddles, leatherwork, and ADHD
Heath Howes struggled in school with reading and focus. His passion for art and working with his hands led to a unique career in saddle making.Heath Howes has built hundreds of custom horse saddles for riders. Growing up, he had trouble with reading and writing and struggled with ADHD. Hear how he found his strengths in art and three-dimensional thinking. And get his advice on how to find a career working with your hands.Listen in. Then:Watch Heath working on a horse saddle on his YouTube channel.Check out a video of a jeweler with dyslexia who found his strengths. Episode transcriptEleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou, and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host.So on this show, we like to talk to a wide range of people with different jobs and careers. In that spirit, I think today's guest would have felt right at home in the Wild West as he does in the modern city. Heath Howes is a saddle maker. He had challenges reading as a child and also has ADHD. Welcome to the show, Heath.Heath: Well, hello. Thank you. Thank you for having me.Eleni: So you're a horse saddle maker and also a leatherworker. What does a saddle maker do?Heath: I am a saddle maker. I make saddle trees. My job is putting leather on a hard form that is called a saddle tree. And we adapt it to shape for a horse so that the rider can be suspended on that animal and not get thrown off and not slide off, but also be able to work on that animal and rope cattle and other animals off of it. And that is the saddle construction. I've probably made about 500 saddles and 1,200 saddle trees.Eleni: And can you actually explain what a saddle tree is?Heath: Traditionally, a saddle tree is four pieces of wood, specifically shaped and then mounted together. A fork, a cantle, and two bars. Usually it's bound by rawhide. What I make it in is a high-density polyurethane, and I put it in a mold and then fill that. You form the tree to match the horse, the back of the horse, on the bottom side. And then you match the rider when you're constructing the saddle on the top side. The thing that I do for the majority of my job is making the saddle trees, and I send them off to saddle makers.But when I can get a chance, I make the saddles themselves, and I do custom ones. So I'll end up hand tooling or what we call carving, where you take a swivel knife and break the grain or cut the grain of the leather. What everybody wants is the thing that takes the most time, which is hand tooling. And you take these little stamps that are like an eighth of an inch by an eighth of an inch, all the way to like a half inch by half inch. And you can make flowers, you can make human faces, you can make portraits, dogs, cattle, and stuff like that, or huge geometric patterns. And anything you can think of, you can pretty much put into leather. So what I do is just dress those trees and then make belts and other things like that.Eleni: You mentioned often people are looking for custom saddles. I don't know if there's anything else that you'd like to add about why people are looking for custom saddles, like why that's important and, like, what are the kinds of things that they are looking for when they seek out a custom saddle?Heath: You know, this type of work, ranch work, is very hard on horses. So you want something that's going to be comfortable for them and yourself throughout the day so you can continue to work. And longevity is what we're looking for now. So you want a custom saddle to allow you to work not just all day long — or days being like maybe eight hours at the easiest, you know, 14 hours from dusk till dawn — but all the way into your 70s.For people that want a comfortable ride, because it's hard on your joints, it's hard on your hips, it's hard on your knees and your ankles. And so my dad's 70 and is still able to ride because of the production method that we have, you know, so we can relieve the joints with a custom saddle.Eleni: That's super cool. That's something I've never thought about.Heath: Well, who does? You just get on a horse, right?Eleni: You mentioned, like, some people ask for specific imagery or carvings. Do you have a story in mind or maybe the strangest request that you've had?Heath: I didn't get this request. It was one that I heard from in the shop, my dad's shop. And my dad's name is Mark Howes, and his shop is the Double H Ranch Saddle Shop, which is the shop that I learned and grew up in saddle making and leatherwork. A gal came in, and she was very interested in a fully floral carved saddle. And she had a particular flower set that she wanted. And when it's floral, it's the petals and then the vines and the leaves that go with it.She wanted a little animal on it too. She wanted a tree frog, and not just any tree frog. There's a specific type of tree frog that she wanted. And she starts explaining it. My dad's like, "Well, OK, so what's this, like a toad, like a bullfrog?" And she's like, "No, no, no. A tree frog." He's like, "If you could just show me a picture." She's like, "All right, I'll show you the image." So she pulls up her shirt. And she's not wearing a bra and she has two tree frogs tattooed to her breasts. And she's like, "Those, I want those frogs on my saddle." And he was like, "I think I can do that."But anyway, yeah, that was the most interesting story of someone who was like, "I want this." I just don't know.Eleni: That is very interesting. Cool. So what does a typical day look like for you? And what is your favorite thing about the process or about the work that you do?Heath: For my day, I have to structure it. I start with the small projects first, the ones that I don't like doing, and it's easier to pile that on at the beginning of the day with the small stuff, because then you can get through it. So sweeping, prepping, cleaning, and there's a lot to clean when you're messing around with plastics in its liquid form, because as soon as it hardens it cases out, what's cool is like, it's like living sculpture. It looks like just a drip all over the place, but it's hard. With COVID and everything going on right now, I've had to release the two guys that worked with me that I hired on.And for me, my mind, it was easier to talk out the process with individuals in the shop. Now it's just me. So I've got to, like, start music or a podcast or something like that. And I have something that my subconscious can work on. Otherwise my processes are just thrown out the window because I tend to overthink if I don't have something that my mind is working on. Eleni: So you said it was actually helpful to you to verbalize what your day would look like when you had colleagues around. Do you want to talk a little bit about why that's helpful to you and perhaps how that might relate to some of your learning and thinking differences?Heath: For me, it's a systematic approach to things. So I talk about it, but I guess with the ADHD, there's some compulsionary issues, but I'm also an oral learner and teacher. It's easier for me to sometimes explain something, but I gotta get it out first. You know, if I don't know what I'm doing, I have to talk about it. I'm, like, "I'm going to go do this thing; I'm going to go put this on," because if you have a good idea, say it out loud. And if it's still a good idea, then go do it. And you're like, "Oh, no, this is great idea." But when you say it out loud and it sounds horrible or awful, then just don't do it. "I said it now, and that is something bad. I'm just not going to do that."And with my process, it does change, especially now I've had to reconfigure an entire process because since it's only me, I can only make one tree a day and that mistake ratio is greater. So if I don't talk about it and think about the next step of my process, then I may screw up a tree, which is $400 a piece for me. So that's the entire day. I'm, like, oh well, that day's scrapped, but it does two things: Solidify it, the process in your mind, and assurance — confidence during the day. If you feel more confident about what you're doing every day, then showing someone else or telling someone else or doing something that's very new to you is not as daunting.Eleni: So we haven't really talked about like what your differences are. So could you describe, like, how you identify or, like, perhaps how you would describe your own learning and thinking differences to, like, a friend or a family member or a colleague, and how maybe it actually shifts depending on who you're talking to? Heath: Yeah. I have had better success at talking about my issues with my friends rather than my family. And I'm not certain that that's going to be for everybody. It just happens to be, my folks tend to think that whatever difficulties I have has a bearing on how they taught me or my upbringing. And so I don't tell my folks that. I was just recently diagnosed with ADHD. Although I know that I have had it for a long time because the struggle has been real. It's just when I was in school and I broached this subject with my folks the first time, and I was, like, "I think I have that." And my mom's, like, "Even if you do, there's ways around it, you don't have to take it, because I don't want you to take anything chemically."I'm, like, OK. And that was one conversation many, many years ago. And that was it. That was the end of it. No bringing it back up. But I can talk to my friends and say, I think this is a problem. So when they suggest books to me, you know, when I was younger, it was, "Is it entertaining or is it educational?" Because if it's educational, I will struggle through it, most because of the larger words; because as I read, I don't read left to right. I look at the center of a word and then assimilate the letters that way. Is it something I'm familiar with? Like, is that word recognizable as it is just physically written?Otherwise it doesn't look right. And then, like, fonts usually throw me off. If it's the same word and it's written in a different font and it doesn't look right, I won't know the word. I'm like, Tucson. What is that? Or I'll say "Tuckson." I don't know. That's still Tucson. It's still spelled Tucson. You know, but for me, I just recognize a word like a face. Is your face familiar? Is that word familiar and then reading right to left, I just assimilate the idea of "What is the sentence trying to tell me?" But now, I mean, it's easier nowadays. I can read books if it is exactly a book that I want to read. Writing, for me, even though I know what it is I want to say, my mind is still going too fast and my hands are too slow. Just can't do it. It takes me a full day to write a page of thought. I don't understand why, for me, I just can't do that. But I know that some individuals can put those ideas together and then they see that idea and then they can run with it and they can just type it and go along. I knew that I wasn't able to sit down and write and type at a computer; it just takes me forever.I was like, even though these things are fun, I cannot do it. Now, the one thing I was able to do, and this is the weirdest thing, in my creative writing class. It came to our poetry writing. One of the things we had to do, and I was like, "Oh, poetry."And the teacher was like, "Just write in freeform." I was like, "Crap." OK. Freeform, not going to do it for some reason. My mind needs a type of structure. It needs sequence. I decided to look into French strict form. French forms are some of the hardest in order to follow. That was easy for me. The rhyming schemes, well, you just got to figure out what's going to happen, but I can follow that. I can follow that system, but I can't do freeform poetry to save my life. Eleni: So you mentioned that you were diagnosed later, and you know, when it came up when you were younger, your parents kind of dismissed it or didn't allow you to pursue that further. Do you think that your differences, like, influenced either your interest or where you decided to go with your career, even without having that diagnosis? Heath: Absolutely. When I was learning in school, I would keep at least a notebook with me that wasn't for writing. It was an art book, but for the most part, it was drawing circles while the teacher talked, or triangles, or Xs, and things like that.But it would just be a form of making the muscles do something, the subliminal mind do something. And, uh, the first few times I did that, my teachers did not know, and they thought I was being disruptive. And I was like, "How am I disrupting you by drawing? You know, anybody who's taking notes is still going to be scribbling on a page, but you're upset that, like, there's circles happening." There's a disconnect there. They think I'm not connecting to them. And I was like, "This is for me to listen to you while not like losing my s*** in class," you know?So, the tangible arts became easier. Drawing became easier. So, as I went into specific classes of education, I did art class, a sculpture, and those came easy; three-dimensional thinking became easy. So, I did architectural design while I was in high school. So, model building — part of that class was using CAD programs as they first came out. I could see all of that because my hand was already building those things. But because of the limitations, I wasn't able to just sit and listen. I had to do something and to clear my mind, you know, so I could pay attention.So making an art piece at the end of the day, and then rather than make model kits, I just decided to start making models myself, carving woods and pieces like that into something else. Which leads to what my dad was already doing. I just, you know, would do that every now and then, but I got into construction and art and everything, and that went into theater, like actual theater, all the backstage stuff, lighting, set painting, prop making, and things like that.All the tangible stuff that you don't think about when you're watching a movie. Being able to do that and look at it and see things three-dimensionally and see it as someone's describing it to me, someone's like," I want it like this," and they're very vague, but I can see it three-dimensionally already in my mind and then do a partial draw or a thumbnail sketch of it.Eleni: Like, in terms of your story around the types of things that you are interested in, it sounds like, you know, right now you're working with your hands and that seems to be like a big part of what you were drawn to in terms of sculptures and creating 3D objects. And you mentioned earlier, working with plastic and working with leather, I'd love to hear more about what you really enjoy or not about working with these materials. And then also, like, how this process, like, engages your other senses. You mentioned bringing music into it, but I'm wondering, like, about texture and scent and, like, other sounds.Heath: When you're working with leather, there is a term, "gaining your hands." The leather is a bio material. Once it's tanned, it's not all hard. You still have armpits. You still have neck. You still have stomach. You still have these areas where this very flexible bilateral cell structure makes for weaker points, when you want stronger leather pieces.Now, the thing is when you're trying to shape leather into these convex and concave areas where there's four different shapes and sides that it all has to go on, some of that knowledge you do need to utilize, but reading the leather as it's just a side of hide, just looking at it, you don't know. Touch the leather. This guy that used to work for my dad would be like, "Make love to the leather," but you're still using your hands to see how that structure is moving because you still can't, if you're looking at it, you still don't know what it does. Does it feel boardy? Does it move with your hands? But there's a ton of smells go in there. And plastic, sometimes stuff reminds me of cinnamon, which is weird because none of it is chemically balanced, chemically made to smell like cinnamon or chocolate or vanilla. Eleni: So Heath, uh, many of our listeners didn't grow up on a ranch, um, but you know, they might be interested in saddle making or leatherwork, or just like some of the other hands-on work that you mentioned, like sculpture making, prop making. How do you suggest that people get into this type of work?Heath: If someone's wanting to get into saddle making, find a professional. There's a lot of videos out there on how to carve and stamp leather on YouTube. And I myself just started one for specifically saddle making, but there's a few YouTube videos out there for individuals that want to find out more. If you want to try making something with your hands and you want to try clay, buy some modeling clay and just do some basic figures, a full human form. It does not have to be detailed, but just building a body, and then build a head. If you want to start a three-dimensional thought, start with models, car modeling, or even those 3D puzzles, because you want to fulfill your creativity and curiosity. Just do a 3D foam puzzle. Watercolors are very, very cheap. Paints are very, very cheap. You can get them at any big block store, but the thing is to start.No matter how confident or lackluster you are in your abilities. You're like, "Well, I have a hard time drawing stick figures." It doesn't matter. Just draw the stick figure, then add more to that stick figure. But for those individuals that want to start, just start. Eleni: Thank you so much for chatting to me.Heath: Thank you so much. It's been wonderful talking to you and telling everyone about my story.Eleni: This has been "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard today, tell someone about it. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/thatjob to share your thoughts and to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash that job. Do you have a learning difference and a job you're passionate about? Email us at thatjob@understood.org. If you'd like to tell us how you got THAT job, we'd love to hear from you. As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors. Thanks again for listening.
The Opportunity GapADHD parenting tips from a Black clinical psychologist
Kristin Carothers, PhD, joins the show to explain what families of color should know about ADHD, and shares her experiences as a Black doctor.What should families of color know about ADHD? The hosts welcome Kristin Carothers, PhD, a Black clinical psychologist who specializes in working with families of kids who have ADHD and learning differences. “Dr. Kristin” shares why ADHD — and ADHD medication — often weigh heavy on the hearts of Black families. She gives practical tips on what to do if you think your child might have ADHD. And she offers strategies for families who don’t have resources or health insurance to get professional help. Dr. Kristin and the hosts also reflect on Black Lives Matter and her personal experience of being a Black doctor.Websites and approaches discussed by Dr. Kristin in this episode:Child Mind InstituteAmerican Academy of Child and Adolescent PsychiatryParent Child Interaction TherapyThe Incredible YearsAlan Kazdin Parenting ApproachRelated resourcesADHD fact sheetWhat I tell Black parents who worry about labels like ADHD for their child How to get a free or low-cost evaluation for your childEpisode transcriptJulian: Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a podcast for families of kids of color who learn and think differently. We explore issues of privilege, race, and identity. And our goal is to help you advocate for your child. I'm Julian Saavedra.Marissa: And I'm Marissa Wallace. Julian and I worked together for years as teachers in a public charter school in Philadelphia, where we saw opportunity gaps firsthand.Julian: And we're both parents of kids of color. So this is personal to us.Welcome back to the show. Hey, Marissa.Marissa: Hey, Julian.Julian: We're really hyped today because we have a very special guest here: Dr. Kristin Carothers, PhD. She's a graduate of Howard University and DePaul University. She's a clinical psychologist. That means she works directly with families of kids with learning and thinking differences, like dyslexia and ADHD. And in addition to working with families, she's also a professor of psychiatry at the Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta, Georgia. And she's worked with Understood on many different projects, including our Wunder app, which we're really proud of. So let's welcome Dr. Kristin to the show.Marissa: Thank you. That's awesome. Dr. Kristin, welcome. It's so great to have you. Thank you for joining us.Kristin: Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here today.Marissa: Everyone has this idea of what ADHD is, but for those who are new to this, or maybe not new, but maybe just unsure and unclear of what it is, how do you explain that to families? How do you unpack what ADHD is for families?Kristin: First thing I try to do when I'm explaining to families what ADHD is, is to let them know that it's a thinking difference that has a brain basis. So if we think about our brains and how they work and how we in a given day have to manage like multiple demands, right, so we've got a plan. We've got to organize. We have to respond to some things. We have to filter out information that we don't need to respond to.And what happens with ADHD is that you can have difficulty meeting those demands for a number of different reasons. And so we call it a neurodevelopmental disorder. And so what that means is that there's a brain basis for it, but it also has many environmental components that play a role in symptoms and presentation. But when you go to see a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist, or even a pediatrician, and they tell you, oh, your child may have ADHD, what they're talking about is attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder.And in the past there was ADD or attention-deficit disorder. And there was thought there's a difference between ADD and ADHD, but now we only use the one umbrella, ADHD. And then there are three presentations under that umbrella. Sometimes parents will say, "The brother is ADHD. He can't be." And so what they might be talking about is differences in symptoms that they noticed, but that's because there are different presentations.So the first presentation is the hyperactive impulsive presentation. Those are the kids who are talking all the time, jumping when they should be sitting, running, climbing in situations where it might be dangerous. We would say those are Energizer Bunnies. So that's the hyperactive impulsive type.The next presentation is the inattentive presentation. And these are our kids who are maybe forgetful. They're losing things all the time. It's almost as if you tell them to do something, goes in one ear and out the other. If the hyperactive kids are like Energizer Bunnies, the inattentive kids are like my space cadets. So it was like, "Hey, come back to Earth. Bring it back. Where were you?"Then we've got the third presentation, which is a combination, where kids present with symptoms of hyperactivity and impulsivity and also symptoms of inattention. So they've got like this gumbo going on, where they have a mix of the symptoms at any given time.Marissa: That's super clear and really helpful. I've heard it before. I've never heard it explained so well, so thank you very much for that explanation. And I can like envision and see the students that I've worked with and the family members and people that I know and love. That is them.Julian: So from your perspective, what is unique about ADHD specifically for people of color? And then, even more specifically, for Black families?Kristin: I think a perfectly timed question. So I'm also Black, in predominantly Black settings, and wasn't even really introduced to the concept of ADHD until my high school years, when the setting that I was educated in was predominantly Black, but it became integrated with more white students. And at the time, what had happened was some students had been put out of their Catholic school and they were sent by their parents to their neighborhood school.So it was an interesting community because it's a white community, but the school in the community was all Black and the community didn't send their kids. But once they came, we learned about, oh, people take medication during the day to help them focus. Well, we had never heard of that.And so I'll disclose I was in high school in the late '90s, early 2000s. I didn't really know anybody who was on medication for ADHD or who had been diagnosed with ADHD. But I started to become aware that some of the kids who came to my school, that they were either diagnosed, that they had been on medication, that people would say things to them: "Did you take your meds today?" And I was like, "What is this?"Why am I saying all that? I think from the perspective of Black people, if a kid was evaluated or diagnosed, it was sometimes parents might say, oh, you're letting the system label them. OK, so there's already this like cultural mistrust for us and especially parents of Black boys. So that if a school system or a teacher wanted to evaluate a kid who was a Black kid and they presented with symptoms, parents would become mistrustful, because we don't know — you can't trust what the government does.You can't trust that label won't be applied to your kid and that label won't follow them through their life. And then they won't be able to get a good job and they might be fast-tracked for the prison system. So we have all of this like healthy cultural paranoia that I think impacts Black people historically and currently, when we think about ADHD and diagnosis.I was talking with my mom today about a friend that I grew up with and, or a couple friends I grew up with, where in retrospect probably did have ADHD, but we were so afraid. Even family members were so afraid of the intervention, due to the labels, that the intervention did not happen.And in hindsight, yes, maybe they did, but at the time it was not safe to be evaluated, get the label. Or we felt it was unsafe to medicate. So that's kind of my perspective when it comes to like how we're moving through this cultural acceptance of can ADHD be a disorder that doesn't necessarily mean we've got a label that's gonna follow us for life. We can get help, treatment for it.Julian: I didn't hear about this until I went to college and it had been something that I just was floored by. I didn't realize that medication was a thing. I didn't realize that these symptoms were actually scientifically proven to be a disorder. I just thought it was kids couldn't sit still. And so it was a really eye-opening experience for me, specifically because I went to a primarily white institution for my college. And I had grown up in primarily Black settings, too. So going to that situation, it just, it opened my head up.Given that this is both of our experiences, right, and I think people in our age group probably experienced similar things, do you see it changing? Do you see some of that being altered now?Kristin: I definitely see a little bit more acceptance in the Black community for the fact that a kid's symptoms can be tied to this like brain basis. That is not because the kid is just bad or acting now. But I think where we're still on the border and on the fences around medication and mistrust around like institutions and medical doctors. I think that some of that is mistrust. And some of it is like lack of knowledge. So if a kid is diagnosed and prescribed medication, parents may think, "Well, I gave it to him that one day, but his stomach hurt. I didn't give it to him again." Or "We gave it to him one day or four week and it didn't work. So we didn't do it again." Or "Medication doesn't work" or "Therapy doesn't work." And so I think what's happening for us is there's a lack of education about what the evidence-based treatments are — the fact that there are different classes of medication for ADHD.So because one medication doesn't work, it could be that the dose was too low. It could be that it's the wrong class of medication. It could be that the kid will respond better to a different medication. Or it could be that it's an environmental thing and that there needs to be an environmental intervention.Not every child diagnosed with ADHD is going to take medication. Most of the work is going to be parent and teacher training to modify the environment. And so that's the biggest thing that I find that people don't know.Julian: As a clinician specifically with what you do day to day, how do you go about treating and providing treatment? Is it a combination of advising the behavioral modifications? Is it subscribing medication like the parent side? Like what is it that you typically do?Kristin: So I'm a clinical psychologist. And so I do not prescribe, I'm not an MD. So across the states, in most states, the only people who can prescribe medication are psychiatrists. So psychiatrists have gone to medical school. They are medical doctors. Or pediatricians, depending on the state, you, which you live. Some pediatricians are more comfortable with diagnosing and medicating, but most pediatricians will refer parents to a child and adolescent — a board-certified child and adolescent psychiatrist for medication management if that's something they should decide to do.Evidence-based suggests that the fastest response is going to be to medication. Long-term, though, the longest-term effects are going to be with behavioral parent management training and school consultation. So what I do is behavioral parent management training and school consultation.And so there are a couple of different models that, um, clinicians can be trained in. There are some individual, there are some group models, there's some individual models, parent intervention, that are all based on the same premise that the coercive cycle of interaction between parents and kids can drive or increase these impulsive behaviors. And that the environment has to be modified or shaped so that the kid receives lots of positive attention for on-task behaviors, thus increasing those behaviors.And we try to actively ignore negative, attention-seeking behaviors as much as possible, and also set the kid up for an environment that's successful. So what I do is behavioral parent management training and school consultation.Julian: Focusing on the positive reinforcement aspect of it. Gotcha.Kristin: And you know what I'll say about that positive reinforcement thing is sometimes people are like, "Oh, well you want me to just praise my kid?Just praise my kid? What about what they do something wrong?" It's not just about praising your kid. It's about getting them to understand that there are certain behaviors that you're going to be really specific about that you're going to help them to be aware of that they need to increase. And when they increase those behaviors, you're acknowledging it.I also want to remind parents that we enjoy praise and we enjoy reinforcement when we do something well. So none of us shows up to our jobs for free. We enjoy getting a paycheck. We want that compensation. So there's nothing wrong with giving people feedback about positive behavior. That's how we work as human beings.Marissa: Yeah, it's so necessary. It's just ingrained, right? And I'm listening and I'm thinking to myself, how do you start to get the buy-in?Kristin: When I'm trying to like join with a family or a parent that might be resistant to the idea that their kid is presenting with these problems, is that I try to keep in mind that parents are the experts on their children. And so even though I may see this kid in a number of settings and notice things, at the end of the day, the parent really is the expert on their kid.And so as much as I can find out from them: What do you notice at home when you tell them to do X, Y, or Z? How many times do you have to call before the person comes or addresses? Have you noticed that the kid is having difficulty breaking away from this, but then they're really super focused on this. You can’t get them to do homework, but you can get them to do this for hours. That actually has a name, and this is what it's called.And so sometimes it's like parents have that "aha" moment because there are things that they thought of as maybe being a personality thing that might really be a symptom of ADHD. And I'm validating that they are having this experience at home. And it's likely a similar experience that teachers are having at school.Julian: Parents, do y'all hear that? Do y'all hear Dr. Kristin talk about how you all are the experts with your own children? Just want to lift that up and that everybody out there listening, Dr. Kristin is validating the fact that you all are the ones that know your kids. And that's something that we've been talking about a lot with our podcasts since the beginning.Marissa: And that is something that we need to continue to remind our families, because I think that is a key part that's missing a lot of times. And that's why students are often struggling in school, because they're — that parent piece is always, or there's assumptions that are made. And I think it's important that our parents know how valuable and important they are.So then with that being said, Dr. Kristin, I'm curious, for some families who are trying to get help, however, they might not have access to some of the resources or they might not have the financial ability or the insurance. Or even just like you said, there might be a knowledge gap or something missing there. What tips or advice can you give to those families?Kristin: This, this is a big issue, right? There aren't enough clinicians to do the work. Even if there are enough clinicians, some of them don't accept insurance. Even if they do accept insurance, they don't have any space. So what do you do as a parent?I often refer family members, friends, potential clients to sources of evidence-based information that are online. So for instance, I had a family member who reached out a couple of weeks ago about a child who has ADHD. They had medication from a pediatrician, weren't able to follow through. I say first, step one, you're going to go to this website, Understood.org. And you're going to look at what are learning differences. Childmind.org. The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. These are websites that have evidence-based, accurate information that parents can access, right? It's not treatment, but at least it's information, so you know you're not alone.The other thing that I recommend is that parents reach out to the academic medical centers in their community or the closest big city to where you are.The reason I say this is because academic medical centers typically train child and adolescent psychiatrists. And if they also train clinical psychologists who are doctoral level or pre-doctoral level. If you don't have an academic medical center, do you have a university, a college where there's a doctoral program in clinical psychology, where there are programs for licensed clinical social workers.Those universities, schools, often have community-based clinics where they provide services at a free or very reduced fee. And so the other thing I think is you check in with that pediatrician. You say to the pediatrician, "Hey, I need help. I need referrals."And then the final thing I would say is you gotta be careful with what you watch and consume because you don't necessarily know how truthful it is. But often there are YouTube videos that are by like organizations like Understood and AACAP — American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry — that provide information about symptoms and what you might see. So the web, I think, while you're waiting to get treatment, use that as a resource.Julian: You know, I guess the takeaway is that you don't have to feel like you're alone. You don't have to feel like nobody has not gone through this before. And you have to remember that as families with children, you have a right to the services that are needed, you have a legal right to get what is needed. And so don't ever feel like you have to take this on by yourself.Marissa: And I think one thing that stood out that you were talking about, Dr.Kristin, and I think is important for families and for educators to know too, is the piece of it that is so much the changing the environment. Because I know I've worked in schools with families where a lot of times there is a holdup with their pediatrician. There is a holdup in getting their medication refilled. And so that can't be the only answer. Yes, I understand that it's part of their management piece and part of what they need. However, it is also up to what we're doing. How are we developing our environment? How are we supporting them with what they need in so many other ways that are non-medication related?Kristin: Yeah, I agree. The other thing that I was going to say in terms of resources that are like, based on that environmental piece, some of the evidence though, the websites for evidence-based interventions that we do that really do impact that environment or that parent child interaction. They'll have resources on their website about, OK, what can you say to your kid? How do you structure the environment? So one model is called parent child interaction therapy, PCIT. And if you Google PCIT and international, you can go to their website and they'll have a list this just for parents.There's another model that's a group-based intervention called the Incredible Years. If go Google the Incredible Years program, you'll get to their page. And it'll say for parents, right?Or the Alan Kazdin behavioral parent management approach, Google it. And there'll be books that come up for really good information that can help you to start it if you need tips about, OK, what do I do at home to get them on task for getting ready for school. What do I do at home to motivate them for getting through homework?Julian: I would love to know, Dr. Kristin, um, and you know, I think about even my own children, just the experience of interacting with a Black doctor. What's that like for you and formulating that, that relationship and just what's it feel like to move into a family's home, and regardless of the race of the patient, just being a Black doctor, what is it like for you?Kristin: Depending on the context in which I was in and the time, things have changed. So if I think back to graduate school, when I was coming from the South Side to work with families on like the near North Side who were in public housing and I clearly was not in public housing, it was I'm Black, I'm from Chicago. But economically I've had a very different experience. And so working with a Black parent, I remember the parent was talking about being in public housing. And I say, my family came from public housing too. And she said, but you all were fortunate enough to get out.Then I go to New York and I'm in Washington Heights, and I'm working with parents who are undocumented. I'm working with parents whose children have to interpret for them. That I'm able to still build a really strong relationship because we have this consistency, but they had to teach me so much about the culture because I know nothing. And so I'm in a position where I have to learn about not just like that, there's a language difference, but there is a cultural difference.And so, can I connect with them when I can't speak their language and I'm Black and I'm not Dominican? So there's that. Then I go to Child Mind, and the families that I worked with that were Black were like me, middle-class. But there were very few of them. And so almost exclusively, my clients, the clients that I worked with were white and affluent and almost, for the most part, I was always respected.There were a couple of times where it was like, I knew that because I was Black, things were different. So there might be client that was supposed to come to me and then they didn't come to me. And I don't know why they didn't come or they didn't stick. And it's like, am I bad therapist? Or did I not stick because I was Black? Or is my rate of getting clients and keeping clients different? Because when you're on Park Avenue, people are looking at your diplomas, where you went to school, and they're looking at what you look like. We gotta be, we real about that. Just like they looking at that when they're in Atlanta and they say, I want a Black therapist.And so with the whole Black Lives Matter movement and everything, it's been as a Black doctor who's around other doctors who aren't Black, it was like really important for me to let people know, like I am Black, like Black-Black. And so this movement is like my life. And so I need you to know that if you work with me, or if you're in spaces with me, and then I guess where it breaks down for families and kids is now, there will be some times where I'm working with Black families and there will be some things, and they're like, "I don't have to explain this to you cause you know what I'm talking about." And it might be like a, a family, like a, some family-level issue. It might even be something about a sorority or a fraternity. And they're like, but on the flip side, when I'm talking to my white patients about it, I'm like, you got to explain that to me. I don't know.Julian: And I think that's the point of asking it, is that for our listeners, regardless of who they are in hearing the complexity of your experience and what it means to be a Black professional in this work, is important to hear. And it's also important to hear that it's not a uniform experience, but we all have different things that happen to us and different things that shape who we are. But it doesn't change our devotion to the work and our devotion to what we do and how we're uplifting people.So I just, I love everything that you've shared with us today. I love everything that you've chosen to talk about in terms of the recommendations and, you know, your life story is inspirational on so many different levels. You you've hit the gamut.Marissa: And just to piggyback off of what Julian saying, I think it's a breath of fresh air too, for us to listen and to hear. Because a lot of the conversations we have, sometimes we don't always have easy answers and not, and not that you gave easy answers, right? I do think though, that you gave a lot of applicable and a lot of tangible things for our listeners to connect with. And because of just the diversity within your experiences, that in itself makes you relatable. So thank you seriously, so much gratitude, Dr. Kristin.Kristin: Thank you. And I just want to let families know, and parents. Like, this is hard work when you get this information. They're like, "Oh, my kid has ADHD. What now?" And even sometimes I feel like when my family comes to me, I'm like, oh, I'm failing my family. How am I sharing all this information with all these different resources and my family doesn't even know?It's because it's like really hard work and it can be exhausting. And so you are not alone. And if you feel like you're tired or you just don't know where to start and it's overwhelmed, totally get it. But places like Understood — and I was going to Understood before I was even like any way affiliated with Understood.Marissa: I remember in graduate school, right in graduate school. I was like, especially as a special educator. And it just was like, again, like, I felt like there wasn't often a lot of times besides like your textbooks, right? They were like, here's where you get the information. I was like, well, no, I need things that are a little more up-to-date websites.Kristin: Yeah. The IEP Toolkit, like the Understood — the number of times that I've sent emails to parents, like just go to this website and read what it says. And here's the letter to request that like, here's a template, like this will walk you through it.Julian: I, again, I just want to reiterate the pleasure that we have of having you join us, and we really appreciate everything you had to say, your time. But also for our listeners out there, let's help encourage more of our young people to be like Dr. Kristin. We need more of you out there. We need more of you to be out there doing this work from a place of authenticity.Everything that you said comes from a place of realness and authenticity. Our families out there, really encourage people in your lives and community to find ways to do this type of work, because we need it, but find people that you can trust. That's really what it comes down to.This has been "The Opportunity Gap," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "The Opportunity Gap" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Marissa: If you found what you hear today valuable, please share the podcast. "The Opportunity Gap" is for you. We want to hear your voice. Go to u.org/opportunity gap to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G slash opportunity gap.Julian: Do you have something you'd like to say about the issues we discussed on this podcast? Email us at opportunitygap@understood.org. We'd love to share and react to your thoughts about "The Opportunity Gap."Marissa: As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission."The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Andrew Lee and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood.Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors.Julian: Thanks again for listening.
In ItSchool refusal: When kids say no
School refusal is real, and it’s trying to tell you something. But how do you figure out what that is? Lots of kids say “I don’t feel like going to school” at some point. But for some, it’s more than that — they flat-out refuse to go. And you can’t make them. School refusal is real, and it’s trying to tell you something. But how do you figure out what that is? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra talk with a family who’s been “in it” when it comes to school refusal. Listen to Erin and Meg share the story of their son’s school refusal. Find out what they did to get through it. Plus, learn common signs of school refusal. Related resourcesSchool refusal: What it means when kids won’t do schoolworkSchool refusal: How to help kids copeBack-to-school anxiety in kids: What to watch out forEpisode transcriptAmanda: Hi, I'm Amanda Morin. I'm the director of thought leadership for Understood.org, and a parent to kids who learn differently. Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood. And this is "In It." Amanda: "In It" is a podcast from the Understood Podcast Network. And on this show, we talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids to offer perspectives, stories, and advice for, from, and by people who have challenges with all types of learning differences. Gretchen: And today we're talking about school refusal.Amanda: Which is a short and sweet label for a not-so-sweet phenomenon that can throw families into turmoil.Gretchen: This refusal might involve tears or tantrums, or just a flat-out refusal to budge.Amanda: And whatever it looks like, school refusal is almost always an indication that there's an issue that needs to be understood so it can be addressed.Gretchen: Today, we're talking to two parents who have definitely been in it when it comes to school refusal.Amanda: Erin and Meg are massage therapists in Massachusetts, and they're parents to two young kids.Gretchen: Erin and Meg, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy to be speaking with you today.Erin and Meg: Thank you.Gretchen: Let's start with a little background. Can you tell us a bit about yourselves and about your son, who's in third grade?Erin: We are parents to two kiddos. Our son is almost 9, and our daughter is 4 1/2. And we, last year, went through a really tough experience with our older son, who, for various reasons, found himself up against not being able to make it to school.Gretchen: Had your son liked going to school before all this happened?Erin: I would say that he was never a kid that just loved school and was just like, "School is my place." He loves the social aspect of school. He has lots of great friends. He goes to a really amazing school. It's a nature-based elementary. So in the K–1 program, lots of play, lots of outside time. It was the transition to second grade that, well, obviously we had an overlap of things, um, and COVID was one of them. But he did start off really strong, and it was great for our kids to be back together, and they were outside, and it was amazing. And part of it was the weather changed. It got colder. While it is great to be outside to play, it's not as awesome probably to be outside to learn how to write or to be working on math. So, those kinds of challenges were there, but certainly there was a shift just in structure. He was in a new classroom with new teachers. It became more academic, and those were some of the things that really were making it hard for him to go.And a really COVID-specific thing — we didn't realize that he thought that the new year meant that COVID would be over. And that was really heartbreaking. I mean, it's still, like, really emotional to think that. He was holding a lot more anxiety around COVID than we realized. And so pretty much after the new year, he hit a wall where he was, he was done.Amanda: So what did it look like when he said "I'm not doing this anymore"?Meg: A lot of things, actually. I mean, you know, it could look like anything from "I'm physically not going to get out of bed." The, you know, verbal "You can't make me go." You know, and a lot of panic, like he would run. He would run and hide. Um, he sometimes he'd run in the bathroom and just get in the bathtub. And then he'd be like, "You're scaring me." Um, because we're like, "Buddy, we gotta go to school." It would look like a parent would have to be with him every step. Help him brush his teeth, help him get his socks on, and then help him get into the car. It took a lot to just get him to switch his brain to thinking like, "OK, this is happening. We're going to school."Erin: It never felt good to feel like we were making him do something that he didn't want to do. And we think about, a lot, just where do you find that line with that tough love of "We know you're going to a safe place, and we know that you're actually fine once you are there, but we see that you are in a state of total fight-or-flight right now"? And we really were able to hold the whole time. Like, he's not giving us a hard time; he is having a hard time —Meg: He's going through a hard time.Erin: But it is super triggering when you have a kid who is almost 8 years old and is just, like, in a violent rage.Gretchen: So, Amanda, I have a question for you. You know, Meg and Erin were describing those meltdowns, and those seem to be one of the signs of their son's school refusal. But there's gotta be other signs that families can look for, right?Amanda: Yeah, totally. Some of the other signs of school refusal are those things like older kids, they may play hooky. They may skip class. You often hear kids complain of not feeling well, but it's kind of, like, vague. It's a vague "maybe they have a stomachache." They hadn't slept well. Um, when they do get to school, they may call frequently to come home. They're angry at everybody for seemingly no reason; they're crying. There's a lot of emotion. And a lot of kids will actually deliberately get into trouble at school so they can get sent home. And I've been there as a parent. I had a son who had school refusal issues. Getting the call from school is a tough thing.Gretchen: It must be a tough thing. You know, we also asked Erin and Meg if they felt supported by their son's school as they were navigating all of this.Erin: The hard part is his anxiety wasn't showing up at school at all. Truly, once he was there, he was fine. We had a couple of experiences of him not wanting to get out of the car once we got there. And one of the days that I was probably the most emotional, I couldn't get him out of the car, and I actually just phoned up to the head of school and he came down and he took him out onto the soccer field and kicked the soccer ball around with him. And it just meant so much to know that other people were holding him in that way. But that was one of the hardest parts is last year, trying to find that extra support, find the therapist who had availability, find really any of the resources to help us parent him the way he needed, but help him with what he was going through.Gretchen: So, when did you realize this wasn't just a temporary thing that would go away on its own? And when you realized that, what did you do next?Meg: So, around February, I think we started to see the forest through the trees, with the baseline anxiety that was going on and just seeing, "Oh, wait a minute. This isn't about you just not wanting to go to school. Like, you're completely shutting down; like, you're in your amygdala right now and we need to get you into your frontal cortex." And we just, we started naming it and saying like, "You have worries, you have anxiety," and just sort of helping him cope.Erin: Well, what we did in February was actually just make the conscious choice of, "We need to give you a break." And we made a conscious choice to keep him home for a month and connect him with the remote piece. And it was instant, and we were really lucky that there was a way to keep him connected to his classroom. But, as many parents probably can attest, the remote learning experience was not — not optimal. And once the remote program was phased out, we kind of thought, "OK, we'll wait for things to warm up and we'll give him a break." Like, that's what you need is a real break from this. But he never really bounced back. And I think those last three months of school were actually the hardest where it was like, "OK, what, what do we do?" How do we do this? He had a friend who used to leave him little videos in the morning, like, "Will you come to school today? I want to play soccer with you." And I'd be in the bedroom bawling. He'd be watching these videos, and sometimes it really was the thing that got him there. Like, "I really want to play soccer with you." And then there were some days where he was like, "I really don't care. I don't care what I'm missing." And so probably by the end, he was only making it to school two to three days a week, if we were lucky. And it really felt like we were dragging all of us to the finish line of the school year.Amanda: Did you ever think about sort of like that balance between sort of hearing them versus caving in? How did you grapple with that?Meg: All the time. I think it was in February when we let go of the rope. You know, we just said, "OK, we're just going to let go of this." And I think we just realized that it wasn't about us caving in as parents as much as it was us actually just validating something that was really challenging and hard for him. And if a Dunkin' Donuts doughnut did that for him, then so be it. And, sure, it sparked up a lot of, "Oh my God. Is this going to happen every time? Is he going to expect this every time?" But I think he just really felt like, "Yeah, this is hard for me." You know what I mean? And it, and it. I guess I just didn't feel like it was us caving in as much as us —Amanda: There was no, there's no judgment on my part there. I just want to make it really clear. Meg: When you said, when you said "cave in" like, yeah, that, that's the first thing I was like, dude, I don't want to cave on this. Like, "You shouldn't need this to do this. We have to do this." And then we had to let go of the rope and say, "No, it's OK."Erin: I struggled to do that a lot, though. I mean, you were so much better about that than I was. Because I felt like there were moments that I was like, "I don't even recognize myself as a parent anymore." Like, where are we going, and how do we ever come back from this? Like, "Here are your Skittles as you are on your drive to school at 7:30 in the morning, like, wow."Gretchen: We've all been there.Erin: Just really wild.Gretchen: I mean, if he's not in pajamas, that's a win.Erin: Yeah.Meg: Well, even, even now — I mean, just, you know, for, like, we have a system for him and what it is, and he's doing it independently. But again, the focus is he's doing this independently where he wakes up every morning; he'll get dressed; he goes through his steps independently.And the trade-off is he gets to play Minecraft before he goes to school. And, you know, as a parent, you know, I don't want my kid on screens. Like, you know, you really freak out about it, but, in the end, 15 minutes of Minecraft —Erin: He's ready before any of us; he's up and out. It's mind-blowing, actually.Meg: It feels like, like, I'm OK with that.Amanda: I love the phrase "letting go of the rope." I really love that you use that. There's a part of me that, like, I can just visualize that. It's just that — and in my mind, the rope is like all of those expectations that everybody has that we have in the back of our brain as parents, right?Meg: Yeah.Amanda: So, I just want to know if you did experience any of that judgment. Did people say things that really seemed insensitive to you?Erin: People were surprisingly compassionate. And that may have been because it was a COVID year. I think back and feel like everybody was going through something at that time, so people had a lot more understanding that our kids were going through something. I mean, I do remember a couple of people, like, really off-the-cuff stuff that was just, "Well, just get him in a seat. Like, yeah, sometimes my kid doesn't want to go to school. You just get him in the car and go." I'm like, "Do you even want to know what it looks like to carry a kid that size kicking and screaming and scratching at 7:30 in the morning, holding him down, and putting him in his car seat? Like, just really think about what that means." And I did actually say that to someone one time, and he was like, "Oh, yeah, right. That doesn't work so well." Because I think that for some people, when they would hear it, they'd be like, "Yeah, my kid complains about school too." And we're like, "This isn't complaining about school. This is DEFCON 5."Meg: Yeah. Fight or flight, yeah.Gretchen: So, I wonder if we can go back to the outreach for a minute, because I feel like that's a place where families usually get stuck. They don't know where to go or who to turn to or how to figure out what's the root cause for the refusal. So, how did you figure that out? What did you do?Erin: Well, we were trying to really approach it a couple of different ways. One of them is we did hear from his teachers, and he was having some academic challenges. So we did in the spring go down what did feel like a rabbit hole of trying to pursue testing through the district and get approved for the IEP. So, we wanted to make sure that he was going to get the support he needed academically. And we did finally connect with a therapist for him. We did also talk to our pediatrician, who was incredibly supportive, and we started him over the summer on a medication. That was a really hard decision to make, but it feels like it really has helped to get him where he needed to be, to be able to identify, "I'm having a lot of worry about this. And now I can actually talk about it instead of hide under the bed."Gretchen: So, Amanda, it seems what we're hearing from Meg and Erin is that their son was having a hard time going to school because, well, first of all, there was a transition to a more structured school day, and that was kind of daunting for him. And maybe he was feeling a little bit bad about things because he had some undiagnosed learning challenges. And on top of it all, you've got the anxieties of COVID. That certainly could not have helped. What are some other reasons why a child may be refusing to go to school?Amanda: There are tons of them, right? So there are a ton of reasons. Um, anxiety is a big one. Sometimes it's separation anxiety. Kids are worried about leaving their parents behind, or they're worried what's going to happen during the day when they're not around, right? They're worried about what might happen to their parents. Sometimes it's anxiety about what's coming next at school, especially, like, in certain times of year, things change up a little bit in school and kids are worried about what's happening next. And a lot of times it's tied to they're having trouble with something, right? So, kids may not want to go to school because they know they have reading that day and reading is really hard for them, or that math class is coming up and they really don't want to go to school because they don't feel comfortable in math class. Or sometimes it's about friends, or not having friends, and the social groups change and they feel really lonely. And those are the kinds of things that make it really hard for kids to go to school. When they're not feeling good about themselves — when they're feeling like there's something that they can't handle at school — is when you often see school refusal.Amanda: So is he in school this year?Erin: Yeah, he is.Amanda: Tell us how that happened.Meg: Yeah, well, he has gone almost every day, minus him getting a small cold and we had to keep him home, but he's doing it, which is like such a win.Erin: Well, we spent the summer, like, consciously about recovery. Like, we didn't sign up for camps, and we spent a lot of time really just, like, being home and regrouping. And then for us, just finally being able to talk to other parents who have been through it. And I think it's partly that it's a whole new year, I think. He's in the 2–3 class, so he has the same teachers. He gets the structure of the classroom. And I think just a little bit of maturity has really helped him push through, but he's really proud of it. He's rocking it, and he knows it, and we're just really grateful that he's there. And, like, now that he's there, we kind of feel like, "Wow, that was really hard." It was really, really hard when he got sick this year and had to stay home a few days, I felt my own sort of, uh —Meg: "Is this gonna set us back?"Erin: I felt my own worries about, like, "Is he gonna be like out of the groove again?"Amanda: I so relate to hearing the like, "And when he stayed home again, you had this, 'Uh-oh, uh-oh.'"Meg: Yeah. Our daughter will say, "Oh, I don't want to go to school." And it's instant, that phrase "I don't want to go," you know, it just brings up so much. And you have to sort of check your own damage, your own, your own healing and say, "OK, hold on. This is totally normal. She can say that." And just work through it.Gretchen: So if you look back at those days, when you were really in the thick of it, what was the hardest part for each of you?Erin: I feel like the hardest part was just seeing him truly suffering and feeling like — he was surrounded by so much love and care. I mean, a community of friends and classmates and family that really just, we were all rooting for him. And it felt like we still couldn't, we still couldn't reach him. It felt like we still couldn't find what was going on for him to help pull him out of this place and to have it be every day. Like, this was every day, it just was so dark and sad. It was really heartbreaking to see him just so not OK. And I feel like when I think back, like you said, all of those expectations that we have, there was also a lot of guilt and, and this feeling of like, "Wow, like, why is everybody else's kid able to pull it together to get to school this year and ours can't?" Like, when I think back to some of the things I was saying to myself then, I wish I was a lot kinder to myself. But I also wish that we had really been able to hear him sooner. Because I feel like we kept pushing it. We kept trying to just drive it. Like, nope, this is what we're doing; this is what we're doing; we've got to do it. And I think he was really telling us as best as he could, "I cannot do this."Meg: One of the hardest things was seeing the effects of this day to day, ongoing. I mean, I think the last thought that at least I would have before I went to sleep was, "We're going to do this again tomorrow. It's going to be the same tomorrow. It's not going to change, you know?" And then, like, wanting to give my partner support, wanting to be there every day for her and for us, it was just really, really hard. And you know, when Erin said it was dark, it just felt dark.Amanda: Do you have advice for other families going through this similar kind of thing?Meg: I think advice was not to just not to be afraid to try new, new things. If people give you suggestions, like, don't be afraid to try them. I think that was the only thing that sort of got us through that was our willingness to just be open to ideas and support each other's ideas. So if Erin had an idea or she would change it up with, I don't know, screen time, doughnuts, I don't know, it was just about trusting and supporting that that person is just doing the very best that we can and has our son's best interest at heart.Erin: You know, I think one of the things that was helpful — hard and helpful — is that one or the other could always be the one on a particular day. Like, there were some days where I just really couldn't. I'd be making lunches, crying, and Meg would be telling him stories to talk him through each of his steps. Or some days where Meg was just, "I'm losing it, like, I cannot," and I'd be able to step in and just be there with him in whatever way he was. I think for me, I, like I said, because he's doing so much better, I feel like I've just been focused so much on having a lot more compassion for us both as a couple and how we got through that, and for our own selves.I am so aware of how much shame there was last year. And I think, for me, sharing this is really about wanting other parents to feel less shame if they're going through this. And part of that is that isolation of being there in the mornings or the night before school, feeling like your kid is the only one or you're the only one, and truly being able to connect with other parents on the other side of it. And I think that's what helps is even for other parents, where their kids are doing well, um, just not being afraid to share what you're going through. You need your village; you need your tribe to hold the hard time that you're going through so that you can be as centered as you can to be there for your kiddo who's going through something so hard. And I think it took us a while to be able to reach out and really get the care that we were needing so that we could really be there for him in the way he was needing.Amanda: Erin and Meg, just thank you so much for sharing your story with us and for helping to, to break down that shame.Gretchen: Yes. Thank you so much for being so honest with us. We really appreciate it.Erin: Absolutely. Thank you so much for letting us.Amanda: So before we go today, I wanted to tell you about a new show in our Understood Podcast Network. It's called "The Opportunity Gap," and it's hosted by Julian Saavedra and Marissa Wallace. Julian is a Black parent and an assistant principal in an urban public school. Marissa is a special education teacher with a multiracial child. And it's a podcast for families like Julian's and Marissa's to talk about kids of color with learning and thinking differences. And they really explore those inequities that may be happening in certain situations. So I would totally encourage you to listen as Julian and Marissa explore those issues of privilege, race, identity, and talk about the ways parents can advocate for their kids. Again, that show is called "The Opportunity Gap." Gretchen, have you been listening to it?Gretchen: I have been listening to it, and it's fabulous.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," part of the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: You can listen and subscribe to "In It" wherever you get your podcasts.Amanda: Maybe you have your own story about school refusal that you'd like to share with us.Gretchen: We want to hear it. So leave us a message at 646-616-1213, extension 703. That number again is 646-616-1213, extension 703. And we might just share it on a future episode.Amanda: "In It" is for you. So we want to make sure that you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/init to find resources from every episode.Gretchen: That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash in it. And please share your thoughts. Email us at init@understood.org. We'd really love to hear from you. As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference. And we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are production directors. Also, this week I'd like to add a special thanks to Max MacKenzie for being in the podcast booth with me. Thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks for always being in it with us.
Locker challenges: How to help your child
Lockers are a challenge for lots of kids — especially if it’s their first time having one. Some kids have trouble opening the lock. And some have trouble figuring out when to go to their locker and what to take each time they visit. Check out these videos and tips to help your child work through common locker challenges.
How’d You Get THAT Job?!A niche podcaster on myths, mushrooms, and ADHD
Julia Schifini has many, varied interests — and ADHD. Hear how her interests pushed her to leave her day job for a career in niche podcasting. Julia Schifini, who has ADHD, left her day job and embraced the opportunity to turn weekly chats with her best friend into a podcasting career. Creator of the popular Spirits mythology podcast, she’s found her niche in topics like Greek mythology, Dungeons & Dragons, and more. Along the way, she has also taught herself sound engineering.Listen to how Julia navigates ADHD within the demands of her podcasting work. Find out how her many, varied interests in life have helped her thrive. And hear her explain what a podcasting collective is. Listen in. Then:Check out an episode of the Spirits podcast, hosted by Julia and her friend Amanda.Watch a video from a young person with ADHD whose varied interests support their career.Episode transcriptEleni: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a podcast that explores the unique and often unexpected career paths of people with learning and thinking differences. My name is Eleni Matheou, and I'm a user researcher here at Understood. That means I spend a lot of time thinking about how we find jobs we love that reflect how we learn and who we are. I'll be your host.Julia Schifini is a podcaster. She is one of the founding members of the podcast collective Multitude. She is also co-host and producer of "Spirits," which is a queer mythology and folklore podcast told through a feminist lens. Julia is also a sound designer for a variety of fiction podcasts, and she also has ADHD. So, welcome to the show, Julia. Julia: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk. Eleni: Yeah, I'm excited too. It does feel a little bit meta interviewing a fellow podcaster about podcasting as a job. So, in the introduction, I mentioned you have a podcast collective. Can you explain what that means?Julia: Sure. Basically, as a collective, we are a bunch of different shows who share similar resources and are able to promote each other from within. So, it's basically, like, if you ever think of, like, a commune, we're like a podcast commune in that sense. Eleni: I love that analogy. Cool. And what is the collective about? Julia: So, at Multitude, we are all about talking about topics that we love but in a complex way, like we're able to kind of acknowledge the fact that not all of these things that we love are perfect. And so we can lovingly criticize them in ways that one, show how much we love those topics. And also two, allow us to have conversations and build communities around them. So anything from, like, basketball to Dungeons & Dragons to mythology, we just try to cover all of our bases about things that we're passionate about.Eleni: Yeah. I particularly loved the mythology element. My family is from Cyprus, so definitely grew up listening to a lot of mythology and learning about it. What prompted you to start the collective? Were you already into podcasting? How did it all start?Julia: So we started with our show, "Spirits," which is the mythology podcast. And that kind of started after I, and one of my best friends I've known since I was 5, we both graduated college. I had moved back to New York and we were just in really, like, dead-end jobs, really not enjoying ourselves. So we would meet every night at a bar. And we'd just talk about stuff that we loved to talk about. So it would be stuff like, "Let's talk about the meaning of death and why we're all so obsessed with it." From there, we were just having these conversations, and I was like, "I feel like other people would be somewhat interested in these conversations, and they're conversations that we both love talking about. Why not make a podcast about it?" Because at that point I had been listening to podcasts, and it seemed like something that was doable at the time. And so we kind of, like, brainstormed. We chatted about it for a couple weeks. And then I came up with the name "Spirits," and I remember jotting down what would become the logo on a napkin. And I looked at my friend, and I was like, "Oh no, now we have to do this. Now that we've created the vision of it, we're going to have to do it."Eleni: Wow. So, it sounds like it came more so from just really enjoying having conversations and then thinking, "Oh, maybe other people would enjoy listening to this as well." Julia: I mean, like, that's such an ADHD thing, right, is being like, I just love talking about this thing and I want to share it with everyone else. I want everyone else to know how much of this thing is so cool. And that's like been my kind of hyperfocus since I was 8 and I picked up Edith Hamilton's "Mythology" way too young. And I was just like, "Do you guys know about Clytie? She's the reason that there's sunflowers." Everyone's like, "What are you talking about?"Eleni: I was actually gonna ask if you saw any connection with your ADHD and this interest, both in podcasting and in mythology in general, or any of the other topics you talk about? How does it play a role?Julia: So, it's really interesting because I think the reason that I got into podcasts is that my ADHD makes it very difficult to just sit in silence and do things. And sometimes music almost feels too distracting, but I can put on a podcast and zone out the voices a little bit and sometimes pick up little things, and it makes it so much easier to read or research or write at the time. So, I think when I was in college and I started listening to podcasts for the first time, that was a way of me being able to channel to focus, was having that kind of background noise background buzz at the time. And also because people were telling fascinating stories or I was learning really interesting things while listening to podcasts in those moments where I could tune back in and be like, "Oh yeah, that is really interesting. I love that imagery." That kind of thing.Eleni: Yeah, that's interesting. So in a way it was like a coping mechanism to help you focus.Then you're also simultaneously able to learn while that was happening. So while I was looking into this interview, I was reading that the word "podcast" actually comes from the words "iPod" and "broadcasting" combined, which I didn't know. Being a podcaster wasn't always a thing, right? That's like a pretty newish, for our times, path. But did you always want to be like some sort of broadcaster? Julia: Oh God, no. I hated the sound of my voice for an extremely long time. I graduated with a degree in history and religious studies. And I like to joke that the religious studies part of my degree was a complete accident, because it kind of was. I had to take a forced elective. They're like, all right, you have to choose between these two classes. And one was, like, ethics in biology. And I was like, "I've no interest in that whatsoever. No, thank you." And the other one was, like, comparative study of cultures. So I'm like, "That sounds fun and fine." I, like, fell in love with this professor. She was so cool. And I go up to her at the end of the semester when it's time to pick classes for the next semester, and I'm like, "Oh, Professor, what classes are you teaching next semester?" And she's like, "I'm teaching a class called 'The Meaning of Death.'" And I was like, "I will see you next semester at 'The Meaning of Death.'"And I just kept taking classes with her, because it was, like, the one steady thing in my life at the time. Because college was weird, moving to a new city was weird. A lot of my ability at the time to keep my ADHD in check was structure. And so going away to college, I kind of lost all of that structure and, like, I didn't do bad my first semester, but I did fully miss a final my first semester. I was, like, crying in the registrar's office trying to get things sorted out. But I had lost a lot of that structure going to school, and so finding this professor my first semester helped me get my structure back, knowing that at least every semester I'll be able to see Professor Setta.So it ended up working out pretty well. Eleni: Yeah. I think that idea of people with ADHD struggling once they get to college because of the loss of structure, I hear that a lot in my research, and we actually have had another episode talking about that as well. Structure and routine can be really important. So that's a really creative way to have consistency in your life.Julia: Yeah. Eleni: Yeah. I was actually going to ask you, so like you have the collective, you co-host this podcast, you also do the voice acting and the sound design. That sounds like a lot. Like, how do you fit that all in? Where do you find the time?Julia: Ooh, it is a lot. It super is a lot. I feel like a good way of answering this question is telling you about how I lost my job.Eleni: Go for it. Julia: So we had been doing the podcast as a side thing, and I had transitioned from the kind of dead-end job that I had been in that I was super not enjoying to something that I enjoyed a little bit more. So, fast-forward, that company got bought out by a much larger supermarket brand. And at the time that that happened, they started downsizing, and I had been the kind of lowest-level employee in my department. And so I was like, "Oh." I was forced to take a step that I had been dreading but also knew that I wanted to do eventually. So losing my job forced me to become a full-time podcaster. And so circling back to your original question about how did I end up doing all of these different things? I had to start diversifying. I had to start figuring out OK, well, yes, I'm making a certain amount of money each month from doing that one podcast. Are there other ways that I can be enhancing my skills and making it so that I can be more appealing for different kinds of jobs? And so I started doing the voice acting on the side, which was a lot of fun. And then realized that a lot of these projects that were hiring voice actors were also hiring editors and sound designers. And I was like, "I think that's a skill that I could teach myself." And so I did, I just watched a lot of YouTube videos. I downloaded a DAW. A DAW is a digital audio workstation. So if you are recording a podcast or editing a podcast, you're basically going to be doing that on a DAW.And I just started playing around with it, and it was a fun little side project to make weird noises and make cool sounds. And then I finally got someone to be like, "Oh yeah, you can sound design for me. That would be cool." And then it just blew up from there. Eleni: We've also had other people on the podcast that have talked about this drive to teach themselves. Do you think that relates to your differences at all? Is that just a personality or an attitude thing?Julia: I think in my brain, it absolutely is an ADHD thing. There's very few things that I feel like on a day-to-day basis that I can, like, sit down and be like, "OK, I'm going to do this thing." But when my mind makes itself up for me and it says, "Hey, we're going to learn how to sound design," that's what we do. We just do it. But at the same time, I think also survival instinct kicked in at that point too. It's like, "You need to learn how to do this because if you don't, who knows how long you're going to be able to do this for." Eleni: I know we talked briefly about sound design. But we didn't really talk about what that is. What is that job?Julia: Oh, so, sound design, basically, if you're listening to a podcast, particularly a fiction podcast, but any podcasts in general — sound design is creating the soundscape, basically. The things that you're hearing that aren't the voices, or the effects that are on the voices. So for instance, one of the first projects that I sound designed was a fiction show called "Janus Descending," which is basically about two biologists who go to a planet, encounter an alien there, things do not go well. So, basically, like, "fun science-fiction horror" is a great way of describing it. But it was my job to create the sounds of that alien planet. The sounds of them communicating through the radios and stuff like that. The aliens themselves.Eleni: And so you mentioned that it was partly out of necessity, but it also sounds like you get a lot of variety. Is that something that you were also seeking, or did it just happen that way?Julia: Oh man. No, my brain loves variety. I've been thinking about this a lot, and the idea that my brain cycles through excitement about the projects that I'm working at. So, you'd be like, all right, "Spirits," for instance, is a weekly show. But sound design is a really intense project 90 percent of the time, and can be a little daunting when you're getting towards the end of a season. And you're like, all right, God, I know it's going to take me like four hours just to design this two-minute scene. So you gotta get through it. And so I'll go through a phase where I'm doing three to four months of intense sound design, and then I'm taking a break until the next project starts. And by the time that three-month period of the break is over, my brain is like, "Are we sound designing again?" Because I really want to sound design again, but so it's just letting my brain recharge again. Eleni: That's interesting. So it sounds like you have more of a monthly or a quarterly cycle of the kind of work you do, rather than a weekly. Do you have, like, a typical week or does it really depend on where you are along those particular project cycles?Julia: Because I have, like, weekly shows that go out, I do have like a typical "Monday, we do this; Tuesday, we do this; release day is Wednesday; prep for new episode Thursday, et cetera, et cetera." When I'm doing other projects on top of that, that's when the schedule fluctuates, which is actually very good for me. I think that one of the best parts about working from home and also creating your own schedule, like, as a podcaster, is that I can take breaks when I know that my brain is just not into it that day.And then there's some days where it's like, "All right, schedule dictates that this thing needs to get done. And then the rest of the day is yours. Do with it what you will." And those are the days where I feel like I can take a break and I can move on and I can read a book or play a video game and let my brain decompress for the day before we get into another day where it's like, "All right, we're going to do full day, cycle through, hyperfocus, let's go." Eleni: So, Julia, when did you find out that you had ADHD?Julia: So, I was diagnosed at a fairly young age. I skewed more towards inattentive than hyperactive, but I did end up going to therapy and stuff as a young kid. And that taught me a lot of coping mechanisms that really helped me succeed from elementary school to high school.In terms of how that affected me, I guess, I know that you guys talk about, like, co-occurrence with anxiety and depression quite a bit. End of high school tended to be where that was kind of starting to happen, where I was starting to feel anxiety a lot more and my depression a lot more, to the point where, I was always very into supernatural stuff and also, like, superhero stuff a lot when I was a teenager. So I, like, jokingly in my head, told myself I must have a superpower because I must have like premonitions or precognition or something like that. Because why would I just be nervous about something when nothing around me was happening? So that was funny, at least looking back, on hindsight. And then as an adult, I finally managed to convince my primary care physician, "I got diagnosed with ADHD as a kid. Do you think that there is a way that as an adult now I can get medicated?" Because this was like during the period of time where I'd been trying to transition into podcasting full-time, and I was like, "I have no structure now; I don't know how to act or create structure on my own outside of an office space. I need to talk to someone about this. I need to, like, do something about this." And so he finally gave me the information for a neurologist, and we like went through the process, which, it was a very smooth process, and it changed my life in the sense that I finally was able to create structure on my own without so much difficulty and, like, trying to force myself to create a structure. I could do it and feel good about that and focus on the things that I needed to focus on. So, that was huge, kind of getting that adult diagnosis and finally medicated.Eleni: Yeah. How do you find that the depression, anxiety, and ADHD interact?Julia: I think a lot of times, for me, the rejection sensitivity part of ADHD can trigger the depression. And mine tends to, like, come in waves. So I'll be, like, two weeks where I'm really good and then two weeks where I'm down. And again, that's why we created that brick wall scenario, my therapist and I, she's like, "Listen, even if half the wall gets broken down, half the wall is still there, and it's going to be not as difficult as rebuilding the wall from scrap." And then the anxiety again, it's just those kind of spiraling thoughts, which I think is made worse by ADHD sometimes. Like, I will be laying in bed and you just can't shut off your brain. And when it's anxiety mode plus the ADHD spiral, that's a rough time. I found that for me, at least, and I know this isn't for everyone, but, like, reading really helps me hyperfocus on one thing and stop the spiraling.Eleni: Yeah, I mean, that's a really healthy coping mechanism. Are there other ways that you think your ADHD shows up at work? I know you talked about the hyperfocus.Julia: Yeah, I run the social media for the "Spirits" account and stuff like that. And, oh boy, rejection hits real hard when people can just tweet their criticisms directly at you. That's rough. And like social media is rough, but when you're putting yourself out there and trying to teach people on a weekly basis, sometimes you mess things up. And I am trying to be more accepting of the times where I mess things up, but it hurts. Real hard. Even the nicest of criticisms can really bring your whole day down, which is tough.Eleni: Yeah. What do you do to cope with negative emotions? Julia: Oh boy, bless my therapist, because she's a delight and a wonder, but we talk about how a lot of self-esteem is building a brick wall. A lot of your bricks are central to your foundation. And when someone knocks against that brick wall, they might loosen a brick or two, but the whole wall doesn't come crumbling down. So I try to conceive of it as that brick wall in my head being like, "Yep, all right, a couple of the bricks from the top fell down there, but we can rebuild." And I have, I know it doesn't sound conceited for anyone who understands where I'm coming from, but I do have a folder of all the nice emails that people have sent about the show. And, like, all the compliments, like "you've improved my life" kind of things. And those really help because sometimes that self-doubt really does come in, and it is nice to be reminded that people love the show for a reason. Eleni: Yeah. That's such a lovely idea to hold on to affirmations or print them out and have them available so you have something you can immediately turn to if you're not feeling great or if someone says something hurtful.Julia: It's helped a lot to truly be able to call upon support and just good vibes really can help turn it around when you're just feeling frustrated with yourself or down on yourself.Eleni: Well, thank you for sharing that. I think that's a useful visual, as well, with the brick wall. I might even use that for myself. Julia: I hope so, yeah!Eleni: So do you have a favorite show from the collective? Julia: Oh no. You can't ask me that. They're all my babies. They're all my friends. I think if you're going to be giving the collective a try, just find something that is a topic that you're super interested in. And like I said, we run the gamut from like, mythology; we've got basketball podcasts; we have fiction podcasts; we have Dungeons & Dragons; we have world building and science. We have everything. You'll find something that interests you. If you just go to multitude.productions and check out our shows.Eleni: I know that you mentioned you had an interest from a young age in mythology and folklore. Have you always been someone that has niche interests?Julia: My friends will look at me and be, like, "Julia, you trained in professional wrestling for two years. You do embroidery." I feel like I look back at my life and I can look at, like, my Instagram for instance, and be, like, "Oh, that was a fun six to eight months to two years where you were really interested in mushroom hunting," or something like that. And I definitely think that's an ADHD thing is to have that fixation for a limited amount of time. Be like, "All right, that was fun. We're moving on to something else now, though." So I've definitely had some weird, interesting niche interests for sure, 100 percent.Eleni: So you mentioned wrestling and mushrooms there. Is there anything that you want to get back to or that you think might turn into a podcast? Building on that, have you gotten any inspiration from, like, any of your interests for the collective — things that you want to showcase?Julia: Absolutely. There are certain things that I want to get back to. A big reason that I stopped doing professional wrestling: because there was a pandemic all of a sudden. And so getting face-to-face with some sweaty people seemed like a bad idea at the time. I toyed with the idea of doing a wrestling podcast, but, yeah, every once in a while, I'll just have this idea that pops into my head and be, like, can we make that into a podcast? And then whether or not it stays around for an extended period of time and, like, stays in my brain is whether or not I feel like I can develop it into an actual show. Like, "Spirits" — mythology has been my thing for years and years and years. It's like the one hyperfixation that has stayed around over the course of my entire life. So, that made the most sense when we were planning a podcast to be, like, that's the topic that we're going to talk about. With everything else, you know, things come and go, and that's just a real big ADHD mood.Eleni: So, this podcast is an extension of my day job as a user researcher. It is a little bit more of a creative side project. And I know that you also talked about that's how you started. But do you have any hot tips for me or other aspiring podcasters that want to get their podcast off the ground or make it more of a full-time gig, be successful, especially if they have ADHD?Julia: I will say we have a bunch of free resources at Multitudes' website that I would highly recommend people check out. It's got everything from, like, marketing advice to how to get started to budgeting and stuff like that. Great resources. It's multitude.productions/resources. Check those out. From my personal standpoint, if you are looking to start a podcast and you're an ADHD person like me, my biggest advice would be: Find the topic where your voice is unique and individual. There are, for example, a million true crime podcasts out there, right? Find what your voice can tell specifically and tell that story or tell that perspective and create it from there. Create it from what you can do yourself and why you're unique and why you should be the one telling the story. That's the biggest thing for me. In terms of, if you're trying to transition from side job to career in podcasting: One, make sure you're ready for it because it is an interesting and volatile field. And, two, make sure you have a support system, because the biggest thing for me in podcasting is being able to turn to my team or turn to my friends and be, like, "Hey, I'm just, I can't do it today. Can you help me pick up the slack?" So find that team, find that support system, and I think you'll be OK. Eleni: Thank you so much for being here, having this conversation with me and for sharing all your stories. Julia: It was my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.Eleni: This has been "How'd You Get THAT Job?!," a part of the Understood Podcast Network. You can listen and subscribe to "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard today, tell someone about it. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Go to u.org/thatjob to share your thoughts and to find resources from every episode. That's the letter U, as in Understood, dot O R G, slash that job.Do you have a learning difference and a job you're passionate about? Email us at thatjob@understood.org. If you'd like to tell us how you got THAT job, we'd love to hear from you. As a nonprofit and social impact organization, Understood relies on the help of listeners like you to create podcasts like this one, to reach and support more people in more places. We have an ambitious mission to shape the world for difference, and we welcome you to join us in achieving our goals. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "How'd You Get THAT Job?!" was created by Andrew Lee and is produced by Gretchen Vierstra and Justin D. Wright, who also wrote our theme song. Laura Key is our editorial director at Understood. Scott Cocchiere is our creative director. Seth Melnick and Briana Berry are our production directors. Thanks again for listening.
Barton System: What you need to know
The Barton System is a teaching method created for students with dyslexia. It’s one of several reading programs that are based on the highly structured Orton–Gillingham approach. But it’s aimed at a somewhat different audience.Barton was designed to be used by people without educational training. It comes with videos that explain how to teach each lesson. And it offers free, unlimited phone and online support. Lessons are highly structured and carefully scripted.What it focuses onLike other programs based on Orton–Gillingham, Barton is “multisensory.” It uses all the senses to help kids make connections between sounds and words.Barton encourages one-on-one teaching for best results. The maximum number of students working with one instructor is three.It spends more time than most programs on spelling. It also goes beyond reading basics. To help students build vocabulary, for example, advanced levels teach Latin roots (such as ambi indicating both, as in ambidextrous) and Greek combining forms (such as phobia indicating a fear of something).Barton aims to take the guesswork out of reading and spelling. It does this by having students memorize rules and practice using them with real and nonsense words.Where to find itBarton was developed in California and is best known in the West. Its small-group requirement makes it impractical for most public schools. Half of the people who buy the Barton System are parents who are homeschooling or tutoring their own struggling readers. This requires a significant time commitment that may not be practical for everyone.If you’re looking for a tutor who uses the Barton method, ask if the tutor has been certified by Barton. Certification indicates professional training that goes beyond the instruction provided in the basic Barton program. You can find a directory of certified tutors on the Barton System website.Who it’s forBarton was created for students with dyslexia. It’s particularly good for students who have ongoing difficulty with spelling.Students must be able to tell the difference between sounds in spoken language to use Barton. Kids with auditory processing disorder can try a different program, like the Lindamood–Bell Program, to develop this skill first.Barton also does not emphasize reading comprehension. So it may also not be the best choice for students who need to focus on this skill.How it worksBefore they start the program, students are screened to ensure they have the basic skills they need to succeed. There are 10 levels in the program. All students start at the same level and follow the same, scripted teaching plan.A typical session is one-on-one and lasts about one hour. Barton uses color-coded letter tiles to help students connect sounds with letters. Each lesson has 18 steps, and activities change about every five minutes. If a student can’t complete the eight steps within an hour, the lesson continues at the next session.Students are assessed at the end of each level. They don’t move on unless they show mastery of what they have been taught. It can take between two and four years of twice-weekly sessions for students to complete all 10 levels.The Barton System is expensive. But it can be bought used or sold once a student completes it. Barton provides unlimited support, regardless of whether the program is purchased new or used.Using Barton at homeSome parents can have great success using a highly structured program like Barton. But others might run into difficulties. Most parents don’t have enough knowledge to adjust the program to meet their child’s needs if it isn’t working. If your child gets frustrated or doesn’t seem to be making progress, it’s a good idea to talk to a professional.If you start using a program like Barton at home, it’s important to tell your child’s teacher. Talk about how the program fits in with the overall plan for your child’s reading and spelling instruction. Using two similar but different programs — one at school and one at home — can be confusing to a child. Especially a child who is already frustrated.If your child is having trouble reading, it’s important to know why. The best way of finding out is by having your child fully evaluated for learning and thinking differences.It also helps to learn about other reading programs that are available. Some of these are provided free at school if your child qualifies for special education. You may not be able to choose the particular program a school or tutor uses. What matters most is that the program uses an Orton–Gillingham approach.
In ItThis is how we make it through
In an article for the New York Times, Andrew Solomon wrote, “The fact that you wouldn’t have chosen something doesn’t mean you can’t find joyful meaning in it.” In an article for the New York Times, Andrew Solomon wrote, “The fact that you wouldn’t have chosen something doesn't mean you can't find joyful meaning in it.”In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Bob Cunningham hear from families about the (sometimes unexpected) ways joy creeps into everyday life — even on the most challenging days.From learning to ride a bike (as an adult!) to making fart noises at the dinner table, this is how families with kids who learn and think differently make it through.Listen in. Then subscribe to In It on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.Episode transcriptAmanda: Hi. I'm Amanda Morin, a writer and in-house expert for Understood.org and a parent to kids who learn differently. Bob: And I'm Bob Cunningham. I'm a career educator and a parent. And I'm the executive director for learning development at Understood. Amanda: And we are "In It." Bob: This is a podcast from Understood. On this show, we hear from parents and caregivers and sometimes kids. And we'll offer support and advice for families whose kids are struggling with reading, math, focus, and other learning and thinking differences. Amanda: Today, we're talking about finding joy and beauty in everyday life — while also managing the challenges that come with raising kids who learn differently. The idea for this episode started with an article I read in the New York Times, by Andrew Solomon. His name may be familiar. He writes a lot about families that are different in some way. This article was about the work we as a society need to do to overcome these sort of pervasive negative and kind of uninformed views of disability. Amanda: And there was one line in it that I especially love as a parent of kids with autism and ADHD. Solomon wrote, "The fact that you wouldn't have chosen something doesn't mean you can't find joyful meaning in it." And boy, did that resonate with me.Amanda: It's nice to start talking about the great things about having kids, regardless of whether they learn anything differently. Because a lot of the time we're talking about what we find difficult, and to be able to talk about what's really just joyous in having kids, I think, is something every parent probably should be looking at, at some point or another. But first, Bob, tell me what "joy" means to you. Bob: So for me, "joy" is that little bit of overwhelming feeling you get, right? So it goes beyond just being happy or being excited. It's that kind of sense of being overwhelmed by what is happening that makes you feel so happy. Amanda: I, you know, I think your definition of "joy" is very similar to mine. I don't think of it as sort of that everyday contentment that, you know, things are going well. It's that moment that makes you like laugh out loud. So once we started talking about this, I was reminded of a family my kids and I got to hang out with over the summer, Lindsay and Kevin. And we're just going to use their first names today. They're raising two kids who learn and think differently. And when I found they and their family were going to be passing through my town in Maine, I suggested we meet up. And we all went out to lunch, and our time together was — it just made a really powerful impression on me. First of all, our two boys are very close in age, never had met, and they were just joyous together. And then there was this one moment after lunch when Kevin and his son Sam just started skipping down the street like they didn't have a care in the world. Kevin, do you remember skipping down the street like that? Kevin: I do. Yeah. And we'd just had a good lunch and we were — he was feeling silly. And I think what's important to say about that is that he used to not be able to skip. You know, he wears braces on his feet. And that was a challenge for him to get to the point where even could skip. So when he wants to skip now, I'm there. I want to skip with him. I know how hard he worked to get there and how much fun it is for him. So I take those chances whenever I get them. Amanda: Sam is 8 years old. His sister Maggie is 12. When asked to describe Maggie, Lindsay says right off that she is ferociously brave. Lindsay: She is the person who will do parasailing 400 feet in the air with my mom.Amanda: Maggie loves art, theater, soccer, and science. Lindsay says she has what's called a language-based learning disability. Lindsay: So for her, her working memory and her short-term memory are smaller than other kids. And so for her what that means is it's sometimes hard for her to comprehend or to take multi-step directions. And sometimes it's really hard for her to express herself. Amanda: Maggie's brother Sam has a different personality. Lindsay says he's super silly, very emotionally expressive, and all heart. Lindsay: People at school call him the mayor, because he goes around and says hi to everybody. Amanda: Sam has some difficulty with reading like his sister. But most of his challenges are physical. He struggles more with motor skills. Kevin and Lindsay talk about their kids with so much warmth and humor and pride, but they say it took them some work to get there. Both Kevin and Lindsay loved school when they were little. And success came easily to them, so they figured their kids would be the same. When Maggie's kindergarten teacher first told them she thought there was some sort of problem, they were floored. Kevin: We were blindsided with that news in kindergarten and it really — really took us back. You know, there'd never been any signs in preschool. The teachers always said, "Oh, she's such a delight. She's got a great attitude. She's doing just great." They didn't catch any of this stuff because she put on such a brave face. And so it really — it surprised us. And also, we didn't know how to deal with it, because it was not something that we ourselves had been through, right?Amanda: What was it to you when it looked like school wasn't going to be as easy for her as it had been for you? Kevin: It was definitely disappointing. I mean, I mean, because, you know, we had a certain — you know when you have kids, you have a certain vision of how things are going to go. And it's always rosy and optimistic, right? But parenthood is a series of steps where you realize that your kids are like everyone else. So they're not perfect. And we had steps like this before. Both Maggie and Sam have vision problems. So they had to get glasses when they were really young. And that was our first moment of, oh, wait, our kids aren't perfect, you know? And it seems like such a stupid thing now. But at the time, just Maggie getting glasses was heartbreaking for us. Now it's a tiny thing. We don't even think about it, you know. The news in kindergarten was an even bigger blow to that idea that this wasn't the path that we'd imagined for our kids. First Maggie, then — and then Sam later on. And yet, you know, that's the path they're on. And you can get upset that it's not the perfect way it's gonna be. Or you can realize this is who your kid is and you've got to meet them where they are. Amanda: It sounds like they've redefined your expectations of what parenting would be. Does that sound accurate? Lindsay: A hundred percent, I think in two ways. I was thinking about this idea of joy. And I think, you know, we live in a university town that sends tons of kids to Ivy League colleges. And, you know, the conversations at the school board meeting and around town are just about how stressed our kids are. And there's this great author that calls it the checklisted childhood. Like we're doing everything we can to sort of build our kids' resumes so they get into the perfect college and get the perfect job. So I would say one of the most beautiful ways, and one of the most freeing things that having the kids we have did was — it kind of threw all of that out the window. Like I feel very free that our kids do not have to compete with other kids. And that is not saying we're lowering our expectations at all for our kids. It's saying, what we're gonna do is really figure out the kids we have and what's going to make them thrive. And so it doesn't matter if so-and-so is going to college and so-and-so is going on to do this. In some way, that was like so relieving to not even have to be a part of that conversation or to feel influenced by it. Because I think we learn early on like we have to know the kids we have, and the way that they're going to be the most successful is really figuring out what's right for them. Amanda: But parenting their kids hasn't just been a matter of adjusting expectations. It's also allowed for some incredible growth. Like when Lindsay saw Maggie struggling to learn how to ride a bike.Lindsay: I never learned how to ride a bike. Lindsay: And the reason I never learned how to ride a bike was not for lack of trying. Or my parents trying. So we did the traditional thing where my father held on to the back seat of my bike. And, you know, what's supposed to happen is you're supposed to be riding and all of a sudden your dad lets go in you're supposed to have this great moment where you realize you're doing it. And what actually happened was I just kept falling and falling and falling. And I did not like to fail as a kid. So I decided I was not going to ride a bike because my father was clearly sabotaging me, which doesn't make sense now. But anyway, fast-forward to Maggie learning how to ride a bike. I'm 38 years old. She's trying so hard. And, you know, I feel like such a hypocrite because I'm telling — and this is so true of so many things in her life where I'm pushing her to be brave and bold and do all these things when I'm not really doing them myself. So she and I basically made a deal that if she learned how to ride a bike without me holding on to it, that I would go out, I would buy a bike, and I would learn to ride. Lindsay: And so that's exactly what we did. It was not pretty. Her elementary school had a big hill that goes down sort of, a street that goes down a big hill to her school. And so I used to make her — she really wanted to ride bikes to school — so I would make her go to school a half an hour early because I didn't want any of the adults to see me flying down the hill on a bike, screaming and terrified and potentially falling. So we would go early until I built up the confidence to just be able to ride normally. And now we now we ride all the time.Lindsay: And so I'm really grateful for her that, you know, I can't tell her to be brave and tell her to keep trying when it's hard if I don't do it myself. Bob: We heard from some of you about how you found joy raising kids with differences. Here's Beth.Beth: Patrick was born with Down syndrome, but he was also born with a heart defect and he had to be — have open heart surgery at 9 weeks old. And I had two other older children, Jack and Mary Kate. But I wasn't sure if Patrick was my last child or not. And so every part of his babyhood felt so special. And I savored it. And I felt gifted with that slow unfolding. It felt like those slow-motion videos that you see of a flower unfolding. Beth: In fact, I remember so clearly one time watching him spend an entire day figuring out how to open a kitchen cupboard. And as he was doing that, I thought, you know, Jack and Mary Kate just figured this out so quickly. I never even noticed when they figured it out. They — I mean, it was like I opened my eyes and now they know how to open the cupboard. Here, I'm watching you figure it out all day long. And by the end of the day, he figured it out. And it was such a special moment to get to see him really figuring these things out. Beth: I wasn't upset with him that it took him longer. I just thought it was cool that I could notice it. Bob: So I can remember a mom talking to me at length about her son. And her son had a lot of difficulty with a lot of things, especially around school, and that transferred into a lot of difficulty with a lot of things at home. Bob: And so one of the things that he started to do when he was kind of a young teenager is he really jumped into cooking. Fortunately for him, his mom and dad realized like, oh, this is really turning him on. He's really excited about this, right? So they encouraged it. They started to take him places to learn more about cooking. And the mom was, you know, talking to me about this over a period of months and then over a period of a year and stuff. And I can vividly remember kind of the last conversation I had with her about it. And it had entirely shifted from how into cooking her son became, to how into cooking she became. And this was somebody who never really liked to cook and was a very busy executive. And I remember her saying in the end, if it hadn't been for how excited he got, I never would have figured out that I actually love cooking. Amanda: Oh, that's so cool. So like she found joy through him finding his passion.Bob: Yeah. Amanda: And you know, and I think that's so important because we need to find those moments of joy, like whether it's from our kids, whether it's in our kids, or those kinds of things. And we definitely heard that from Lindsay and Kevin. But I don't want to give the impression that Lindsay and Kevin are superhuman and always patient and loving and understanding parents, because that's setting the bar pretty high. And they are the first to tell you that it's not moments of beauty and grace all day, every day. Kevin: I remember, we had a — we were having dinner one time, and it was one of those nights where both kids were acting up for whatever reason. And I'm not even sure it had anything to do with their differences. But it's just, you know, it's like a stressful night. We'd all had kind of a crappy day and we were all in a snippy mood. It was a very serious, tense moment. And Lindsay just stopped. She was about to lose it. And she put her mouth to her upper forearm and made a fart noise. And it was hysterical. It just cut through the tension of the table. And we all just started howling. It was just stupid and silly. And it just brought us all back to: What are we upset about? What are we doing here? They're kids! Have fun with them. Amanda: Such good advice, right? They're kids. Bob: Very good advice. And you know, we heard from another parent, Michelle, whose 17-year-old son Avi has autism. Michelle tells us she's gotten a lot of joy out of raising Avi, and she actually credits him with making his three siblings kinder people and with bringing lots of music and dancing into the house. But that doesn't mean she never struggles.Michelle: You know, it's an interesting balancing act, because I want to allow myself the permission to be human and to say sometimes this is really hard because sometimes it is really hard. And I feel like not allowing myself to understand that — and experiencing that — is not fair to myself, you know? And I don't want it to get pent up and turn into resentment. So usually, like in those moments when I feel that way, my husband or I — we're very good at bouncing off of each other. So neither one of us are allowed to be in one of those slumps at the same time. Michelle: If I'm in a slump first, he's not allowed to be and vice versa. That's number one. Number two is that we'll often remind ourselves of something that Avi has said or done that will just turn us into laughing within minutes. So somehow we try to bring in some of what who Avi is and remembering that great sense of humor and remembering that great, fun-loving, musical, happy kid. And that kind of helps bring us up. And I always try to remind myself that I think Avi's biggest problem with autism is us — meaning we are working on trying to fit him into a world that he doesn't naturally fit into. Michelle: But if he's not being pushed to fit into that world that he doesn't actually fit into and he is being allowed to play, dance, and sing and do what he wants, and it doesn't matter if he does that in a grocery store, because we're not worried about appropriateness, he's fine and happy. Michelle: You know, sometimes trying to remind myself about that happy kid, and that focus and whatever that issue is that's bothering me at the moment, can often usually just pull me out. Bob: She's so right about the grocery store. And, you know, when you have kids with stuff going on, other people think that's difficult for you or you need pity. Kevin, he really bristles at that notion. Kevin: When Maggie gets down about herself and the challenges she faces, we've actually pulled over the car one time and be like, look, all your friends have something to deal with, too. That one is emotionally fragile and cries on the soccer field anytime the ball gets taken from her. That one, you know, can't focus on this and that. Every kid is imperfect, right? And we just happen to know the way in which ours are imperfect. That doesn't mean they're broken or bad or wrong. Kevin: It's just that they're different, right? Every kid is different. And so there are these parents who I think, look at you like, oh, well, you must be dealing with it. But you're dealing with something else. I know that your kids have some issues, too. And if you don't know it yet, it's coming at some point, right?Amanda: Right. Kevin: Don't look at me. Look at your kids. Bob: So that's Kevin's message to folks who aren't raising kids who learn and think differently. Amanda: And here's Lindsay's message for those who are: That joy you're cultivating isn't just important for you. Lindsay: I think if we send them the message that there isn't room for joy or that this is so hard or such a life sentence, like whether we realize it or not, our kids are picking up on that. And, you know, I think they're working harder than most adults we know, because they're grappling with so much. And so, you know, I think it's key to their survival — having that belief and being able to create those moments. You know, I think one of the ways that I've tried to keep my perspective on this is like dealing with my own stuff, getting help. Talking to other parents, finding a community of parents and kids who learn and think differently so that I'm not processing that stuff with them. That's not fair to them. I think, you know, our job — I think my parents were the ones who sort of said your job from now on is to be a detective and to watch them and to figure out what they're good at and figure out what brings them alive and to lean in to that. Lindsay: And so I guess my only closing thought is just how important our job is as parents to make those moments of joy and to make things right and to sort of be detectives and figure out what gives them joy and to do more of that. Amanda: Lindsay makes such a good point about the need to deal with your own stuff, right?Bob: For sure. And it's not only our own stuff. It's also kind of just the way we expect things to go, right? And we expect things to go a certain way because that's how it went for us, right? That's how it went for us when we were kids. That's how it went for our other child. That's how it went for the kids we watched our friends raise — that sort of stuff. So you get your ideas about the way it should go. It's not going to go the way you expected it to go, necessarily. I think we have as parents a lot of influence on it. But if you go into it thinking you're gonna control it, you're way off the mark. Amanda: And I think we have less influence than we actually think we do sometimes. I find myself having those moments where I'm like, wait a minute, why did I say no? Why am I not letting you do this thing that it doesn't matter if you do or not? It's these things as parents, we have sort of let go off and then just like finding the humor in it. Bob: The other thing is, look, you know, I have to remember, my wife has to remember, all of our listeners have to remember: Parenting is a long game, right? It's what happens over time. And each moment is far less important than you think it might be. So if something doesn't go well or you don't react the way you think you should or you have, you know, spent the last couple years really focusing on what's wrong and what's a problem and how can we help and what can we do better, it's never too late to sort of say, hey, let's start. You know, every week we're going to talk about one thing that was an experience of joy for all of us. Amanda: You've been listening to "In It," a podcast from Understood. Our website is Understood.org, where you can find all sorts of free resources for people raising kids who learn and think differently. Bob: We also really want to hear what you think of our show. Go to u.org/podcast to share your thoughts and also to find resources. That's the letter "U" as in Understood, dot O R G slash podcast. Amanda: You can also rate and review us on Apple Podcast, iTunes, Spotify — wherever you download your podcasts from. It's a great way to let other people know about "In It." And if you like what you heard today, please tell somebody about it. Send it to somebody who needs to find a little joy in raising their child. Or just send a link to your child's teacher. Bob: You can also subscribe to "In It" on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify or keep up with us however you take your podcasts. Between episodes, you can find Understood on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, or YouTube. And you can visit our website, U — that's the letter "U" — dot o r g.Bob: Our show is produced by Julie Subrin and Sara Ivry. Mike Errico wrote our theme music, and Laura Kusnyer is our executive director of editorial content. Amanda: Thanks for being in it with us. Bob: "In It" is a production of Understood.
Common accommodations and modifications in school
There are many ways teachers can help kids who are struggling in school. Here are some common accommodations and modifications that schools and families can discuss as possible options for kids.Common accommodationsPresentation accommodations (changes the way information is presented)Listen to audio recordings instead of reading textLearn content from audiobooks, movies, videos, and digital media instead of reading print versionsWork with fewer items per page or lineWork with text in a larger print sizeHave a “designated reader” — someone who reads test questions aloud to studentsHear instructions spoken aloudRecord a lesson, instead of taking notesGet class notes from another studentSee an outline of a lessonUse visual presentations of verbal material, such as word websGet a written list of instructionsResponse accommodations (changes the way kids complete assignments or tests)Give responses in a form (spoken or written) that’s easier for themDictate answers to a scribe who writes or typesCapture responses on an audio recorderUse a spelling dictionary or digital spellcheckerUse a word processor to type notes or give answers in classUse a calculator or table of “math facts”Setting accommodationsWork or take a test in a different setting, such as a quiet room with few distractionsSit where they learn best (for example, near the teacher)Use special lighting or acousticsTake a test in a small group settingUse sensory tools such as an exercise band that can be looped around a chair’s legs (so fidgety kids can kick it and quietly get their energy out)Timing accommodationsTake more time to complete a task or a testHave extra time to process spoken information and directionsTake frequent breaks, such as after completing a worksheetScheduling accommodationsTake more time to complete a projectTake a test in several timed sessions or over several daysTake sections of a test in a different orderTake a test at a specific time of dayOrganization skills accommodationsUse an alarm to help with time managementMark texts with a highlighterUse a planner or organizer to help coordinate assignmentsReceive study skills instructionCommon modificationsAssignment modificationsComplete different homework problems than peersAnswer different test questionsCreate alternate projects or assignmentsCurriculum modificationsLearn different material (such as continuing to work on multiplication while classmates move on to fractions)Get graded or assessed using a different standard than other studentsBe excused from particular projectsLearn about the difference between accommodations and modifications. For kids who have specific struggles, check out accommodation guides for dyslexia, ADHD, and more. And find out why some kids might refuse to use accommodations.
In ItExecutive function skills: What are they and how can we help kids build them?
Messy backpacks. Forgotten lunches. Missing assignments. How can we help our kids get organized this school year? Messy backpacks. Forgotten lunches. Missing assignments. How can we help our kids get organized this school year? What strategies can we use to support kids with ADHD and other learning differences? In this episode, hosts Amanda Morin and Gretchen Vierstra get back-to-school tips from Brendan Mahan, an executive function coach and host of the ADHD Essentials podcast. Brendan explains what executive function skills are — and how we can help kids build them. Learn why we might be asking too much of our kids sometimes, and how to reframe our thinking around these skills. Plus, get Brendan’s tips for helping kids get back into school routines. Related resourcesWhat is executive function? Trouble with executive function at different ages Understanding why kids struggle with organizationEpisode transcriptAmanda: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "In It." On this podcast, we offer perspective, stories, and advice for and from people who have challenges with reading, math, focus, and other types of learning differences. We talk to parents, caregivers, teachers, experts, and sometimes even kids. I'm Amanda Morin.Gretchen: And I'm Gretchen Vierstra.Amanda: And this episode is for all those folks out there like me saying oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. How is it the start of a new school year already? How is summer over? And I don't know what I'm going to do because my kid doesn't know how to do school anymore.Gretchen: Yes, this transition can be especially stressful for parents of kids with ADHD and other learning differences. Maybe you had your systems down last year, like how to get your backpack organized or where your child does their homework after school. But will your child remember those things? And are those even the systems you need this year?Amanda: That's why we wanted to talk to Brendan Mahan. He's an ADHD and executive function coach. He's also got his own podcast, "ADHD Essentials."Gretchen: All right. Let's dive right in.Amanda: So Brendan, as an executive function coach, I would imagine that this start of the school year is a really busy time for you. What are you hearing from parents as they're facing down the beginning of a new school year?Brendan: It varies. Sometimes it's really specific. Like my kid struggled last year and I'm worried about how they're going to do it this year. Sometimes it's my kid's going into middle school, what do I do? Or my kid's going into high school, what do I do? Or I want my kid to get in a college and it's right around the corner — help. Like that. It's that sort of thing, right? But a lot of what I talk to parents about is like pump the brakes. Like, your kid is going to be OK. The school year hasn't even started that much yet.Amanda: OK. So I want to dig into all of that. But first, could you just explain what we're even referring to when we talk about executive function skills?Brendan: So executive function is the ability to do something, right? It's like the ability to execute. So planning and decision making, being able to correct errors and troubleshoot, being able to navigate it when things change and shift, when expectations are different and being able to handle that adjustment. It's understanding time and our relationship to it. It's sustained attention and task initiation. There's emotional control and self-awareness and self-understanding. It's kind of a broad category. There's a lot hiding underneath it.But it boils down to being able to do the thing. It's those adulting skills that, for one, we don't really expect kids to have yet anyway because it's developmental. But also we want them to have it before they're supposed to have it. And that causes its own sort of challenges.Gretchen: So I wonder, do kids tend to slide in executive function skills over the summer?Brendan: I don't know that they slide. I think the academic context of executive function slide. Sometimes we're still using some of those executive functions during the summer. Sometimes we're using more of some of them. You might have a kid who struggles to keep himself organized at school, right? But he's been playing with Legos all summer long and his Lego organizational skills are on point. And maybe that transfers to the classroom and maybe it doesn't.Summer is often when kids are much more self-directed. They're much more curious and exploratory. There's more space for that. So that stuff is going to grow when it may have slid during the school year, because they didn't get the opportunities that they might get during the summer.Amanda: I'm going to go back to something you said, though, because it piqued my curiosity. We expect kids to have executive function skills before they're developmentally ready for it. Why do we do that? Or how do we stop doing that? Or what should we be doing instead?Brendan: I'll go for all of it. Like, how big of a jerk do you want me to be?Amanda: Realistic. Let's go with realistic.Brendan: The answer to that, and this is me being a jerk, is kids not having executive functioning skills is inconvenient.Gretchen: Right.Brendan: Right? Like it makes our lives harder that they can't follow 10-step directions.Gretchen: Brendan, can you give a kind of a general overview of what skills I should expect of typical kids in like grade school and up? So I'm not asking for things I shouldn't get.Brendan: So breaking it down into, like, elementary school, middle school, and high school. It's at least academically how we break things down. So we should expect elementary school kids to be able to pay attention. But there's high school kids who have trouble with that, right? So like, that's kind of an illustration on executive functioning challenges. But broadly speaking, we're expecting elementary school kids to pay attention, control their behavior and impulses, follow one- to two-step directions, and be able to change their behavior to follow rules as necessary.Amanda: The kindergarten teacher in me is going to pop in here and say, "pay attention" is a really like nebulous one, right? Because when I was teaching kindergarten, it was like, pay attention for 10 minutes was about as much as they could could do, right? So I just want to caveat and say, yes, pay attention. I also think about how old the kid in front of you is, for how long they can pay attention.Brendan: True. And absolutely like 10 minutes for a kindergarten kid, and sort of add a few minutes per grade level kind of thing. But also, what does "pay attention" mean? Right? I'm really glad you called that out. Because for some teachers, "pay attention" means sitting with their back against the back of the chair and their legs against the bottom of the chair and their hands folded on their desk and looking at the teacher and — and like, I did that in school. And I did not know what was going on. Because my imagination is way cooler than anything my teacher had to say.Amanda: It may be time to narrate for our listeners that Brendan is standing up as he records, and I'm sitting a swivel chair and swiveling back and forth. Yet we are still paying attention.Gretchen: We're paying attention. So then what about middle schoolers that I know Amanda and I have.Brendan: And I do, too. Yeah. For the middle school kids, we want them to start to show that they can think in order to plan an action. We want them to be able to plan ahead to solve problems, even. Right? Like this is a problem that I might encounter when I do my social studies project or whatever. We want them to be able to follow and manage a daily routine. So an elementary school kid not knowing where they're going on a given day? We might not worry about that too much. Middle school kids, we start to go, oh, wait a minute, you should know what's happening. I want to caveat this, though, because some middle school schedules are a nightmare.Gretchen: A day, B day, short day.Brendan: Yeah. We also for middle school kids, we want to see them beginning to develop this skill of being able to modify their behavior across changing environments. Do we expect to see this because it's developmentally appropriate? Or do we expect to see this because that's how middle school works and it's necessary that they can? I don't know.Gretchen: It makes me think I'm asking too much.Amanda: Makes me think I'm asking too much, too.Brendan: Yeah. One of the things that I often talk about with my clients, with my coaching groups, is when a kid is struggling, we want to wonder: Is it the fish or is it the water? Right? Like, is this kid struggling because there's something going on with them? Or is it the kid's struggling because there's something going on with the environment that they're in? Probably it's both. And oftentimes we focus on the fish instead of looking at the water. So I tend to champion like, let's address the environment that the kid's in.Amanda: As a parent staring down the school year, what do I do right now to start bolstering those skills?Brendan: So if school hasn't started yet, I might be talking about things we can do during the summer to kind of get ourselves squared away so that the beginning of school goes more smoothly, right? Start going to bed a little bit earlier now, so that when school starts and you have to go to bed a lot earlier, you can make that transition more effectively. Or give your kids like a few more responsibilities for the time being, so that when school starts, you can take those extra responsibilities away and replace them with the school responsibilities that are coming. Which doesn't mean they should be writing essays at home. It just means that they should be doing a little bit more in terms of chores or something, so that they're used to not being as relaxed and on as much screen time as they were in the summer.And if school is already started, then it's like trust the teacher, right? Like let's communicate with the teacher. Let's find out what it is that they're doing in their classroom. Are they seeing challenges or red flags already for your kid, or maybe orange flags? Is there anything we need to be on top of right now? So don't wait until the problem happens, like solve the problem in advance instead of solving it after things have gone haywire. And pivoting really quick, because one thing I didn't do is I didn't talk about high school.Gretchen: Oh, yeah. High schools.Brendan: So emerging skills in high school: We expect them to start to be able to think and behave flexibly. We also want to see them begin to organize and plan projects and social activities. Now, social activities, yes. But like, why do they have to be able to organize and plan projects? Because that's how high school works, right? And that skill has been building since middle school, maybe even since late elementary school. But now we're starting to expect more independence and it should be an easier process.We also want to see them adapt to inconsistent rules. And it happens in lots of ways, right? Like I just left English class and now I'm in math class and I can't shut up because I was talking a lot in English and it was fine because we were doing group projects and now it's a solo thing in math, right? That's hard. But we start to expect that. Yeah, you have like three-minute hallway time and then you got to be ready to go behaving totally different for a new subject.Gretchen: That three-minute time is like, I've got to say, as a teacher, even I had trouble switching, right? You're going from one class to the next and there's no downtime to readjust. That's tough.Brendan: Yeah, but that's time on learning, right? That's like you've got to be learning, learning, learning. Which is silly, because we know we need time for our minds to wander in order to cement that learning and sort of lock it in. And if we don't give kids any time that's downtime to have their minds wander and be a little spacey, they're not going to be able to anchor in that learning as effectively as they might otherwise.Amanda: Well, I will say that as a parent of kids who have ADHD, I have often been the parent who was like, you don't have to go do your homework right away. And I know that that's sort of antithetical to like all what a lot of people say. You know, come home from school, do your homework, get it done, then do your other stuff. But my kids weren't ready to. They needed that time to sort of breathe or let their brains breathe or whatever they needed to do. We can have the homework station all put together, but it doesn't mean we have to put the kid at the homework station the minute they walk in the door.Gretchen: Right.Brendan: Right. And how much of that is coming from your own anxiety?Gretchen: Just get it done, man. Go to that seat and do it, right?Amanda: OK, so what's the conversation sound like if I am trying to get my kid in the game, get their head in the game, and not put my anxiety on them? What's that conversation sound like?Brendan: A lot of that conversation is happening inside of you and doesn't need to be shared with them, right? Like, because you got to work on your own stuff before you can have this conversation. You have to figure out what is it about, in this case, homework, and doing it as soon as I get home, or is having my kid do it as soon as they get home. What is it about that that makes it so important to me? It might be that transitions with your kid are wicked hard and you don't want to have another transition. You don't want to have to battle them to come and do homework at 5:00. So it's easier to avoid that battle because they're kind of still in school academic mode. So you can at least get them into it better.And that might be because you're doing it wrong in terms of what activities you're having them do before they do homework. Screen time is not a plan before homework, unless you know you can trust your kid to pull out of that screen and go into homework. If there's ever a battle around getting out of screen time, then they need to do something else before they do their homework.Gretchen: Yeah. That brings me to a related question, Brendan, which is sometimes kids have it together executive function wise, especially when they love something, right? But when they don't like something, all of a sudden I see the skills go away. And I wonder, OK, are they struggling or is it that they're just choosing to not have those skills in that moment because they don't want that for that thing?Brendan: When we're talking about kids, it is never useful to decide that they're choosing to not do or do anything. Because all that does is vilify the kid and make us, as parents, feel more justified in being meaner to them. Instead, we always want to assume that our kid is doing the best they can. And we always want to assume that they are trying to do well and want to please us. Those are my fundamental assumptions at all times. And have I screwed up? Yes. There was a period of time when my kid was struggling, like a lot of kids right now. Post-COVID, there's a lot of anxiety stuff going on with kids.My kid is one of them, man. And I was wrapped up in my own anxiety as a result of his anxiety, and I wasn't thinking as clearly. And we started battling. And we had one particular rough battle that my wife got caught in and I sat down on a bed. I can still see it. I can see myself sitting on the bed and going, I'm doing it wrong. Like we should not be battling. This is not the relationship I've had with my kid for the last 13 years. What am I doing wrong?And I literally went through in my head the slides of the parent groups that I run. And I hit this one slide that is like everyone is doing the best they can. Your kids want to please you. They want to succeed. And if those things don't feel true, it's because there's a skill set that's missing or there's a resource that they don't have that they need. And I was like, he's doing his best, and his best is not up to my standards. And that's because something else is going on. I knew what that something else was. It was the anxiety stuff that's going on. And I was just like, oh, the skill set that he's missing is the anxiety management skills that he needs.But it wasn't that he couldn't do the stuff that I want him to do. It was that he couldn't manage his anxiety. And the only reason I started banging heads with him was because I was so anxious that I couldn't bring the skills that I usually have to bear to navigate the challenges that he was facing and help him out. So it makes sense. It happened to both of us at the same time, and that's why we were banging heads. And our relationship changed from that day forward.Amanda: I'm going to push, though, a little bit, because I really I'm super curious about the kids who say to us, like, I'm just not feeling it. Like, is there something below that, you think?Brendan: What's below when you're not feeling it? Like there's times when we're not feeling it either, right? And there's something below that, too. Sometimes it's I haven't slept well for a week, and I'm just done. I don't have the mental capacity to do this. Sometimes it's I haven't moved my body in like a month and a half and that's affecting my get-up-and-go. Sometimes it's I'm chock-full of anxiety because someone in my house has a chronic illness or I'm afraid of COVID or or my parents are getting divorced or whatever, right?There's all kinds of reasons why kids might not feel it. And if they say, I'm just not feeling it, there's two really good responses. One is cool, then you don't have to do it. Like figure out when you can. Give me an idea when you might be able to do this, and we'll do it then. The other answer is, I totally hear you that you're not feeling it and I get it. I can tell that you're not feeling it, but unfortunately you still got to do it. How can I help you get this done?Gretchen: I like that language.You brought up not wanting to battle your child and none of us want to battle our child. But in thinking about going back to school, we might be getting feelings from last year of oh my gosh, the backpack was so disorganized. Oh my gosh, why didn't you bring home your homework assignments? So how can we start off the year better, but get some of those basic skills under control?Brendan: So I have some videos on "How to ADHD," Jessica McCabe's YouTube channel, on my Wall of Awful model. That is exactly what we're talking about right now. The idea behind the Wall of Awful is that — I'll do like a two-second thing. Watch the video. It's like 14 minutes of your life. The gist of the Wall of Awful is that, like, we have certain stuff that we do that we fail at or struggle with. And as a result, we get these negative emotions built up around that task. And we have to navigate those negative emotions before we can do the thing.So if we've battled with our kid about school a lot, as school comes back up, we have a Wall of Awful for navigating school as much as they do. So we get in a fight and argue about stuff. Just put your shoes on, or whatever. And sometimes it's that petty, right? Like we're yelling at our kid to put their shoes on, even though they have 10 minutes before they even have to get on the bus. And it's not about the shoes. It's about all of the battles we've had about school for the last seven years or whatever.So to get ahead of that, talk to your kids before school starts about how you have conflict when school starts. And ask them, like, what do you notice about this conflict? What do you need for me to help avoid this conflict? Or this is what I need from you to help avoid this conflict. What do you need from me to help give me what I need, right?Because that's what parenting boils down to. Parenting boils down to what does my kid need from me in order to be better? So whenever I have a conflict with my kid or my kid is struggling, I'm always asking them, like, what do you need from me? And sometimes what they need from me is for me to intentionally give them nothing so that they can figure it out on their own. Sometimes that's what I'm giving, is like independence.But if that doesn't work, I need to be ready, like a safety net with, like, other stuff, right? Like, oh, you also need me to, like, bust out a timer and remind you that those are useful. Or break this task into smaller, more manageable chunks. Or, as I had to do for one of my kids recently, text the dad of one of their friends that he wanted to hang out with, because he just didn't have it in him to text his friend. And we had that conversation. I was like, cool, then I'll text the dad. Not a big deal.Amanda: Sometimes my kid doesn't know. My kid's like I don't know what I need from you. So as parents, having those examples of what you can then say: Is it this? Is it this? Is it this? What else would you add to that list?Brendan: First I would add if the kid says "I don't know," say to them, "You don't need to know. I don't want the answer to this question right now. I can, like, take a few hours, take a day." Because when we put a kid on the spot, anxiety spikes, executive functions shut down. They don't know. But if we give them some thinking time and some grace, then they can come back later and tell us stuff. Or maybe not. Maybe they come back an hour later and they're like, I still have no idea.Then we start giving them examples — examples that are informed by what we already know about our kid. Do you need me to get some timers? Do you want to sit down with me and I can body-double you while you work on this? I got some knitting to do, or I have to pay the bills. Like we can sit at the kitchen table, you can work on your thing, I can work on my thing. Do you want help breaking this down into small, manageable chunks? I know sometimes you struggle with that a little bit. Would it be useful to maybe call up Sally and have Sally come over or do a Zoom with you and you guys can work on this together? Would that be helpful? Like, and something else that you thought of, because I am running out of ideas? Like, what do you think?Amanda: So we're all about executive functioning today, which always includes time management. And Brendan, I know you said you had somewhere to be. So I just want to thank you so much for sharing all of these insights and advice with us today.Gretchen: Yes, thank you so much, Brendan. So much for us to think about.Brendan: Thank you for having me.Gretchen: Brendan has lots more to share with families who are working on building their executive function skills. Go to ADHDEssentials.com. That's where you can also find his "ADHD Essentials" podcast.Amanda: You've been listening to "In It" from the Understood Podcast Network.Gretchen: This show is for you. So we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Email us at init@understood.org to share your thoughts. We love hearing from you.Amanda: If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Gretchen: Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at Understood.org/mission.Amanda: "In It" is produced by Julie Subrin. Briana Berry is our production director. Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer.Gretchen: Thanks for listening and for always being in it with us.
ADHD explained: A 28-minute primer
Do you ever wish you could sit down with an expert and find out everything you need to know about ADHD? You’re in luck. In this 28-minute video, ADHD expert Tom Brown explains ADHD as if you were sitting in his office.Find out why this is one of Understood’s most popular videos, with more than 9 million views on YouTube. One of the most-liked comments is from someone who said the video is like “listening to a person you’ve never met describe you in nearly perfect essence and detail for 28 minutes.”Video transcriptDownload a transcript that includes timestamps to help you jump to key parts of the video.
ADHD Aha!Rejection sensitivity, ADHD drain, and the power of failure (Weston’s story)
Getting diagnosed with ADHD (along with anxiety and panic disorder) helped Weston be kinder to himself and accept his ADHD brain for how it works. “The cup that is draining.” That’s how musician and content creator Weston Gardner describes ADHD’s effect on him. He’d spent his whole life feeling like he couldn’t do things that came so easily to everyone else. Weston was at his wits’ end. Getting diagnosed with ADHD (along with anxiety and panic disorder) has helped him be kinder to himself and accept his ADHD brain for how it works. Weston is a musician and content creator who goes by Arcane Anthems (@arcaneanthems). His music sets the scene for podcasts, Twitch streams, tabletop games like Dungeons & Dragons, and more. This episode is guest hosted by ADHD Aha! alum Cate Osborn. Cate, aka @catieosaurus, is a content creator and co-host of Catie and Erik’s Infinite Quest podcast. Listen to this week’s episode to hear Cate and Weston talk about ADHD and gaming, rejection sensitivity, and the power of failure.Related resourcesADHD and rejection sensitive dysphoriaEmotional sunburn: What rejection sensitivity feels likeIn It podcast: The benefits of gaming for kidsEpisode transcriptLaura: Hey, listeners! There's good news for me and also good news for you. I'm going on an extended vacation. And we thought that would be a great opportunity to invite one of our favorite ADHD podcasters, Cate Osborn, to fill in for me for a couple of episodes. You may remember Cate, aka Catieosaurus, from our episodes on ADHD and hormones and ADHD and sex. Cate is a content creator and host of the podcast "Catie and Erik's Infinite Quest." You're in good hands with Cate. So enjoy, and I'll be back soon.Weston: Once I realized that embracing who it was that I was, embracing the limitations that I had, I found that vulnerability, that clarity, to be one of the greatest strengths.Cate: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to "ADHD Aha!" I'm not Laura. My name is Cate Osborn. I go by Catieosaurus on all the corners of the internet where I am a full time content creator focused on neurodivergent intimacy and accessibility and gaming. Your wonderful host, Laura, is currently on sabbatical.And so the kind folks at Understood.org have asked me to step in to her very large and impressive shoes and guest host for this episode. And I'm so honored and excited to be here with my very first guest, Weston Gardner, aka Arcane Anthems. Weston is a musician and a composer with ADHD. Weston, tell the people what you do.Weston: Hey everyone. I run Arcane Anthems, which is kind of my online persona. I write tabletop music for Dungeons & Dragons games, for podcasts, for Twitch streams, and YouTube channels, and all of the above. So I get to work in all sorts of different styles and genres, and I get to constantly research new stuff. It's very good for somebody with ADHD like me, who gets to consistently change up what they're doing, learn something new, and use my skills in like new and unique ways all the time.Cate: So I'm so curious, and I love this because I feel like we have been to so many conventions together. But I've never gotten a chance to just ask you about what you do. So this is my shot and I'm taking it.Weston: Bring it on. Hit me.Cate: First, for all of the lovely listeners at home, I feel like we should spend at least a couple of minutes talking about what tabletop role-playing games are, and why they might be important to somebody with ADHD. Do you want to take that one?Weston: I always tell people it's the feeling of watching an epic fantasy movie, but it's — you're in it and it's your own. And it's you and your friends.Cate: That's a great way to do that.Weston: That's the way I like to describe it. Because in my musical life, I always describe what I do and the importance of what I do when describing it to movies or to video games, right? The importance of having music in a movie is the same as, you know, having it in a video game or having an any form of media, where it drives the emotion of the storyline.And so what I do is I support that role playing around a table you and your friends are sitting around. You have somebody who's kind of in charge of the world. And you have everybody else who's in charge of their own character and their own personas. And you create a story together within the confines of whatever rule system you're using.The one that everybody knows is Dungeons & Dragons, right? So that's just a rules system. That's just the physics of the world and how the game runs. But the story you're telling is the really important part.Cate: One of the things that is fascinating about that entire sort of genre of entertainment is that there is a lot of evidence and a lot of studies that are coming out about the benefits of playing games like Dungeons & Dragons or other tabletop role-playing games on the neurodivergent brain, on the ADHD brain. They can be especially helpful for things like processing executive dysfunction and the learning how to support yourself and developing social skills and all that kind of stuff.So there's a lot of like gameplay elements, but they can also be incredibly therapeutically beneficial, which I think is like really cool. And so that's why I'm so excited that you're here with me because we get to talk about creativity today.But first, before we do that, Laura would be so very sad and disappointed if I didn't ask you to talk a little bit about your journey to an ADHD diagnosis, and what your ADHD "aha" moment was when it came to sort of accepting that and learning about your brain for the first time.Weston: Well, mine starts very much with me in school. I think those are my earliest memories of me going to school and feeling like somebody who understood concepts very well, who tried very hard, who was among the kids who were, quote unquote, like more advanced. But I always felt something was missing. I just didn't understand how everybody else could do things that I couldn't do.I would write one paragraph and they would have four pages done. And it was this gaping hole in my learning, and it plagued me. It was actually one of the reasons that I dropped out of college. It was like there was a — like I was drinking out of a glass that had a hole in the bottom. And I could never really fill it up enough to satisfy my thirst or to keep up.And it wasn't until I had a breakdown in my early 30s — between work and being a dad and being a husband and managing all these other things — that I realized, you know, something isn't right. Something about me is different enough that things that seem normal to everyday people aren't normal to me, to everyday Weston, right? And so I — luckily the job that I was at had some really great kind of social services type benefits, right? And I was able to see a therapist. And I was able to see a psychiatrist. And they very quickly diagnosed me with ADHD and anxiety and panic disorder.And I — like what a pivotal, monumental moment in my life to hear those words and to hear that validation. And the change that it's had in my life, and the change that it's had in my family's life and my extended family's lives, in my siblings' lives, has been so important to understanding that our brains just work differently. And all of a sudden, all the shame and all the guilt that I felt growing up for not being able to catch up, not being able to keep up, was gone.Now for me, I know that I work differently. I know that I need to do things in a way that is going to support these conditions that I have, the way that my brain works, right? As opposed to constantly fighting against them, constantly feeling that I'm lazy or that I'm stupid or that I'm incapable of doing normal things. It has opened up my eyes to a world of understanding and acceptance and compassion. And I'm just so grateful for those diagnoses, honestly.Cate: Oh, my gosh. I love that you were talking about the cup that is draining. That's such just like a poignant image that just is like, oh, my gosh, I feel that exactly. So when we talk about that sort of like ADHD drain, I guess we'll call it for right now. When you started deciding that what you wanted to do was music, what you wanted to do was this like career based in creativity and creation and that kind of stuff. Did you find that that sort of drain went away?Weston: I was in the music industry for about 10 years, making music, playing shows in a band. And that did help me a lot to recognize that that kind of structurelessness and self-managing worked well for me. And then I got into a kind of a corporate retail job where I had to be on during these specific hours. And I had to do these certain things. And I needed to be there on time. And I — there was all these "hads" and "shoulds," and all these things that I needed to fit into somebody else created.And that I think was the biggest problem — was my brain with ADHD doesn't work like everyone else's brain works. And so when you're trying to shove me into a box that somebody else created, it's going to be extremely uncomfortable for me. And it's not going to work, especially if I don't understand why I don't fit. And I'm trying to remember the initial question. Uh, yes.Cate: That was OK. That was exactly, yeah.Weston: Moving into music, and in particular into social media, into music creation, into connecting with people, I have found that being able to use an expertise and a passion of mine, and working when I can work. And then also recognizing that there are going to be times when I will sit down and not be able to do the thing that I've been doing for 20 years. And that it's not because I'm dumb. It's not because I'm stupid. It's not even because it's a creative block that people talk about all the time.It's because my brain is just like, not today. There's no dopamine here today for you. You will not be as creative today. You will not be able to do these things. And instead of me saying, "No, I will do them!" and pushing through and blaming myself and getting angry, I'm like, OK, well, what can I do today?Cate: So I am a content creator, and you are a content creator. And I think the most dangerous and stressful part of being a content creator is that there is an expectation that you make content like all the time, constantly. So how do you balance that? How do you balance the kind of like, OK, I have to make the content. I have to make the video, you know, to bring people over to my music, to my creative process. But also my brain is screaming at me, you know, not today, not today. You know, I got nothing to give. Like, what do you do on those days?Weston: I have a lot of coping mechanisms and techniques that I've used so that I can do those things. And there will be days when you just cannot, you know, where it is a zero. And it's not even that there isn't something that you could do. It's that you can't figure out what that is. So that pushed aside, most of the time I — there's this idea in product development called a minimum viable product. So I like to say, OK, what is the very smallest teeniest, tiniest thing that I can do to check a box today and maybe like kick-start my brain?It's like one of those old cars where you have to kind of turn turn the rotor on them, right? Maybe doing this small little thing and accomplishing this tiny little thing will kick-start the rest of it. So I have these minimum viable products. And with content creation, sometimes it's just using an audio and recording like a three-second video.Sometimes it won't even be work related. Sometimes it'll be, oh, I'm just going to walk outside. And the reason I say that is that there's all these things in my life that I know that my brain needs. I need to move my body. I need to see the sunshine. I need to make sure that I'm drinking and eating food. There's all this kind of basic needs that as somebody with ADHD, it's very easy to neglect those things. Maybe I'll just put that one thing away. Maybe I'll gather my dishes from my desk. And maybe today is just a gather dishes from the desk day and move it to the kitchen day. And that's what I did that day.Cate: I did not come here to be attacked in this way. How dare you, sir?Weston: So I very visibly see those tiny things as victories, because I'm not fighting the same battles as neurotypical people. I need to recognize that me doing that small thing is a victory, just like somebody else working, you know, all day on a thing is a victory for them.Cate: One of the things that I'm so curious about, and it almost sounds silly when I say it out loud, but I think you're really hitting on this idea of how recognizing your needs, honoring them as a neurodivergent person, helps to sort of fill that cup. And then from that cup you kind of can draw your creativity. You can draw that sort of like process of making and composing and being a musician and all of those like really exciting things that you do. So that's not a question. But I just wanted to say that because I think that's neat. Good job, Weston. You're going a great job.Weston: The idea of shame, the idea of failing, the idea of all those things is a very powerful trend in neurodivergent people. And for me personally, it goes deep into this idea of that rejection dysphoria that at least I experience extremely heavily. The idea that you will fail people, will view you as a failure, and it will not be OK if you let people know that you're not all right.And the best way that I have found to remove the power that failure has over me is to understand that for me, failing is a way that I become better. Failing is a way that I grow. And it doesn't mean that my rejection euphoria goes away — dysphoria goes away. Can you imagine? Rejection euphoria? No.Cate: I feel like, yeah. Reject me!Weston: Reject me! Those emotions are something that is almost like a learned behavior with people who are neurodivergent. And unpacking those things in a personal, professional relationship sense and becoming very just like open about the ways that you feel with people, has been very vital to me to overcoming the spiraling that can happen when you begin to feel those emotions.Cate: I love that you say that because I'm also fascinated in how that shows up in your work. Because I think one of the really cool things — and for listeners who may not know, one of the things that Weston does is that all of Weston's music is royalty free. And it's available for the community to use in their tabletop games and their YouTube videos and their actual plays, like all of those different things.I've always really admired that you do that, because it really feels like this act of giving, and this act of, you know, creation for sort of the good of the community. And giving people access to stuff that can sometimes be, you know, very like cost prohibitive. Is some of that emotional involvement, does that have to do with like your willingness to sort of like give to the community like and back in that way, if that question makes any sense? It made perfect sense in my head, did it make sense out loud?Weston: Yes, it really makes a lot of sense. Cate: And I was like, I don't know what I'm talking about.Weston: I have never been asked that question in that way before in this context, and it's my way — oh, gosh. OK. Feel the emotions. It's my way of being there for people who.... Growing up, I felt very lonely.Cate: Yeah.Weston: And for me, it's very important that I help other people to know that they are not alone. That they have support. That there is somebody there who is looking out for them in kind of a mentor-type sense. I didn't have that growing up. All my music stuff. It always felt very lonely, stumbling through and failing over and over, and not understanding why I can't do the same things as everybody else.And this is definitely a response to wanting to be there for people. And I can't be there for hundreds of thousands of people. That's not something that I personally can do. But I devised this method of saying, yeah, but maybe my music can. Maybe I can use this to make other people's games better or other people's experiences better, other people's entertainment more interesting. Maybe I can be the person there who can provide something of value.They can be creative and just take this and use it and immediately see an improvement in whatever it is that they're using it for. And that definitely comes from a place of me feeling I don't want other people to feel alone. I don't want other people to feel abandoned. I don't want other people to feel to their own devices that no one is looking out for them and that they will fail and fail and fail over and over and over again needlessly.Cate: I love that so much. Also, you said this like beautiful, eloquent speech. And all that I was thinking the whole time is like, yeah, me too. But I just talk about sex instead of, like you said, with music. And I talk about talking about relationships on the internet. But like, I feel the exact same way.Weston: I love that. I'm so enamored and grateful for the things that I have learned from the videos that you have done. And being able to reframe my brain around intimacy, around relationships in the context of neurodivergency. And if we dive into relationships here, that's such an important aspect to why I was able to get diagnosed, is that I sat down on the couch with my wife Terena, and I told her all these things that were impossibly difficult for me.And I broke down and I said, "I am at my wits' end doing the bare minimum right now." And I was sobbing. When that realization hit me — because I didn't realize the amount of energy until I verbalized it, that I was pouring into being a dad and being a husband and doing the things you need to do in a relationship. And she really saw me in that moment. And all credit to her was able to say, "Yeah, I see that now. Let's get you help."Cate: Well, and I think that goes back to that sort of shame component, and that kind of loneliness component of like — for me it was that kind of like, you want to do a good job, You want to be the exemplary husband, partner, wife, employee, whatever. And so there's that, like the cup is draining, like you said earlier, straining and draining and draining. And you're trying to keep up. But at some point, like, it just becomes untenable.Like you can't keep going in the way that you've been going, especially, I think, without a diagnosis and without that sort of context of understanding your own brain. And it's, of course, there's such high rates of burnout. Of course there's such high rates of struggles with intimacy and relationships and that kind of stuff in the neurodivergent community — because of that, you know, wanting to keep up appearances of everything is fine.Weston: For me, that was the complete removal of the mask that we use to hide how much effort is behind the scenes. And Terena saw the cost and saw the inner workings and saw that everything was actually on fire, and everything is not fine. And I think that's where the compassion comes in. Having compassion for you and for yourself, and recognizing that the amount of energy that you pour into your every day is X times the amount of energy that some people — they don't have to do.Cate: You've spoken so eloquently about just the experience of being a neurodivergent partner. What advice do you have for a partner who is maybe coming to terms with their diagnosis, or in the process of getting one, and is struggling to really like open up and drop that mask, like you said, and discuss things with your partner?Weston: Being able to sit down and open up is a key part, I think, of any relationship. And if you and your partner are struggling with that, then that is where I feel like you need to start. Diving into the entirety of mental illness and all of that stuff might be a bit overwhelming if you haven't developed a relationship of open communication and vulnerability.And I think that we need to give space for people who may have had different upbringings, may have had different relationships with behavior and struggle and culture, and all these different things that play into mental health. And not everybody is going to be as receptive to those conversations. And it's not that they won't eventually be.Cate: You talked earlier about, you know, struggling in school and then sort of finding your way to music and that kind of thing. What advice do you have for the ADHD kids out there who might be interested in a career in music or composition, who might be, you know, struggling in school? Like, what would you say, a little, you know, I don't know, 10-year-old Weston.Weston: I would say to start. That is the most powerful tool that I think anybody can have. And especially nowadays, being able to make music anywhere with anything. If you have a phone, you can make music. A friend of mine who for the past three years, very talented musician, has just been making music on his phone, on his literal — the thing is like a 5-year-old iPhone — he has been making music on.Do not see the lack in your resources. See that there is an abundance of opportunity. And that music is all around you, even if it's just you writing out lyrics, even if it's just you expressing a melody. I always tell people that as you start to do things and as you start to tell other people that you're doing things, opportunities happen.And I think that that is why social media has worked so well for all sorts of people, of all sorts of different passions, is that you are consistently telling people about what you love to do and about the things that are important to you. And that opens up this world of opportunity. So for anybody who is just starting out in music, just make music. Do not expect it to sound like a top producing, you know, engineer. Like, that is not what's important right now.Try and write 100 bad songs. When you write a hundred bad songs, you are increasing your capability to write good things. And as a kid, because of that rejection dysphoria, I constantly wanted to write only good things. And so it would stop me from writing. It would stop me from showing people things I was working on. Try really, really hard to overcome that.Write and leave it, write and leave it, write and leave it. Because it will never be the thing that you think is going to take off that takes off. Write and write and write. And talk about it and talk about it and talk about it. Learn to speak about the things that you love to do.Cate: Incredible advice from Weston Gardner, aka Arcane Anthems. Weston, thank you so much for being here with me today. This has been incredible. It has been such an honor to get to speak with you. Can you please tell the kind people where to find you?Weston: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. So online. I am Arcane Anthems everywhere. You can find me on Instagram or what's left of Twitter or Threads or YouTube. I try and have a very wide brush. If you want to support my music and get it firsthand and get kind of some behind-the-scenes stuff and all the things you can find me on Patreon. Arcane Anthems.Cate: And where can they listen to your music?Weston: Oh, that's, that's all over the place. That's all over streaming. Are you on Spotify? Are you on Apple Music? Are you a Amazon person? Are you on YouTube? Are you on TikTok? You can you can follow me over there. So I try to make music as accessible as possible. If you want to download all my free music, which is over like 80 songs at this point, you can go to my Patreon and you can download those tunes for whatever it is that you're creating. Also, my DMs are up and if you want to shoot me a, shoot me a message. And I love chatting with people. I do that all day long.Cate: And thank you so much for being here. And thanks for being so honest and lovely and wonderful and amazing.Weston: I appreciate that.Cate: And I have been your guest host, Cate Osborn, aka Catieosaurus. You can find me on YouTube. You can find me on Twitter. You can find me on TikTok, Bluesky, Threads, pretty much wherever there's a Catieosaurus to be found, that's me. I'm also the co-host of "Catie and Erik's Infinite Quest: An ADHD Adventure." We talk about living life as neurodivergent adults, and occasionally we play TTRPGs. So if you want to check me out there, you absolutely can. And if you want to get in touch with me, you can head on over to Catieosaurus.com.Laura: You've been listening to "ADHD Aha!" from the Understood Podcast Network. If you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at ADHDaha@Understood.org. I'd love to hear from you.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources, as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood as a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. We have no affiliation with pharmaceutical companies. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "ADHD Aha!" is produced by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine.Jessamine: Hi, everyone.Laura: Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, Seth Melnick is our executive producer, and I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.
What are your favorite DIY classroom fidgets?
Fidgets can help students with attention, focus, and managing emotions. But not all fidgets work for all students. So it can be challenging — and expensive — to find different types of fidgets for your classroom. Why not try making your own? We asked three educators to share their favorite DIY fidgets. Check out these TikTok videos for their low-cost, creative ideas. Ready to learn more about fidgets in the classroom? Find out why kids fidget. Read about different types of fidgets for kids with ADHD.Download a fidget contract to share with your students’ families.
The Opportunity GapSupporting kids’ mental health: Kier Gaines on fatherhood, self-care, and social media
In part one of our conversation on mental health, learn about the unique ways a parent’s journey can influence a child’s mental wellness. Get tips on how to support kids’ mental health. From the decisions they make to the words they say, parents play a huge role in supporting their child’s mental health. Kids may not always be looking to their parents to be perfect or pillars of strength. But they are looking for healthy ways to cope when life treats them unfairly. So, it’s essential for parents and caregivers to make mental wellness a priority. This episode of The Opportunity Gap explores the importance of good mental health for kids who learn and think differently and their parents. Listen as Kier Gaines, a licensed therapist and digital creator, explains: The unique challenges of parenting and how it impacts kids’ mental health Social media’s influence on kids’ self-esteem and social interactions Ways parents can promote good mental health to their child Related resourcesHow does social media affect mental health? It’s complicated.UCLA Health MARC Guided MeditationsMental Health America: Self-help tools Kier Gaines’ Instagram and YouTube channelsWunder by UnderstoodEpisode transcriptJulian: From the Understood Podcast Network, this is "The Opportunity Gap." Kids of color who have ADHD and other common learning differences often face a double stigma. But there's a lot that families can do to address the opportunity gap in our communities. This podcast explains key issues and offers tips to help you advocate for your child.My name is Julian Saavedra. I'm a father of two and an assistant principal in Philadelphia, where I've spent nearly 20 years working in public schools. I'll be your host.Welcome back, listeners. On today's episode, we'll kick off Part 1 of our conversation on the importance of mental health through the lens of Black fathers. We'll talk about the unique challenges parents of color often face and how these challenges impact kids. We'll dive into the world of social media and talk about how it influences kids' mental health. And we'll highlight resources that promote good mental health for kids and their parents.To help me get into this, I want to introduce today's guest, Kier Gaines. Kier Gaines is a licensed therapist and public figure who uses his platforms to amplify the importance of mental health. He's inspired millions of people to be more proactive in their own journey and reframe the way they think about life and especially parenting. He's been a speaker at events — wait for this one — at the White House. At the White House. At the White House. Yes! And honored by Sterling K. Brown and Oprah Winfrey on OWN's "Honoring Our Kings, Celebrating Black Fatherhood."Welcome to the show, Kier. It is so nice to have you here, brother. So nice to have you.Kier: Appreciate you, man. Thank you for having me on.Julian: An illustrious guest here. I don't know what we've done to deserve this, but I really appreciate you being here. As your biography shows, you've done a lot of powerful things so far. And, you know, we like to just kind of jump in and talk shop a little bit and hear from people and hear what their experience has been. So first and foremost, Kier, what's bringing you joy in your life right now? What's just giving you life right now?Kier: I'm a huge football fan. And in football, whenever a player struggles in their first year, in the second year, once they start to grasp the concepts of the game, they always say the same thing. They say, "The game as starting to slow down for me." It's just like this clichéd thing that players say, and it's supposed to signify that this job used to be like drinking water from a fire hose and now maybe drinking water from one of those high-pressure hoses that cleans off a deck. It'd still knock your tongue backwards, but it isn't as bad as it was before. And I'm finding joy in the fact that I'm getting used to the more exhausting parts of adulthood and parenthood. I'm finding real happiness.Julian: OK. All right. I love the analogy, too, now: as the game slows down for you.Kier: As the game slows down for me.Julian: So let's talk about that a little bit. So both of us are parents. Both of us are parents, right? And parenting, as you know, is a journey. And if I'm being 100 percent honest, it's a journey that comes without a manual, and there is no blueprint for it. For most of us, we just learn as we go.Now, for myself, I grew up in a single-parent household. My father passed away when I was 7. And so Mom, shout out to Michelle Saavedra, you are the number one. She raised us up on her own. And I just remember she did everything she could to take care of us, but also prepare us for what was out there. And a lot of times things got a little difficult. And I know that stress is something that so many single parents carry, especially when it comes to the mental health of being a parent without a blueprint, but also doing it on your own.When you were being interviewed by Oprah Winfrey, you also shared that you, like I, grew up in a single-parent household. As we both have families of our own, can you talk a little bit about why it's so important for parents to take care of their own mental health?Kier: Parenthood is such a consuming position. It was while watching my mom do every day by herself, because looking at it through an adult lens, I realize that my mom was depressed. And we know in the mental health field that depression and uninvolved parenting go hand in hand. So it's because parenting is such a consuming job and it's such a consuming ask, there are pieces of you identity that can get lost in trying to keep it up, in trying to do what you need to do to just make it from day to day. And it does adversely affect your kids.But since people do change their entire identities because of parenthood, I don't enter that when it comes to the mental health space if I recommend that someone see a therapist or encourage someone to see a therapist, because it de-centers you. I'm not going to say, Julian, you could be a better father if you come to see a therapist. That's not the central piece. When you're a better you, by default you're a better father. So we say, Julian, I want you to come therapy so that you can be good for you. And then all of the people that are under your tree will eat all the fallen fruit. At least that's the big idea.Julian: And I think about that. That can speak so much to so many other aspects of life, right? Like, if you yourself are mentally healthy, then all these other aspects of your life will start to fall in place. Those of us that are parents, especially because, like you said, so much of our life is consumed by that identity. And so I appreciate that. Appreciate that. You're saying it de-centers the identity of parent and focuses on everything that encompasses you as a person.Kier: That's right. Take care of you, the person. And actually, I think there is — I don't know if it totally puts you in the mindset of centering yourself. I think it increases the likelihood that you'll be receptive to that mind state. Listen — me included. My daughter had a doctor's appointment other day. So did I. Guess whose doctor's appointment got canceled. Mine.It's easy to preach that. But in all actuality, all of the stresses and the guilt-inducing responsibility of parenthood can make you self-sacrifice and self-abnegate sometimes. So something you got to constantly remind yourself of for sure.Julian: I saw what my mom did for me and my siblings and how hard she worked, and how she made sure that we had what we needed. And when I got the chance to become a father myself, I said, I'm going to do my best to really do this thing right. It's a goal that we all try to aspire to.But I wonder if I've been placing this pressure on myself, like this pressure that subconsciously it starts to bring in these feelings of, Am I actually doing this right? Am I actually a good father? And because I didn't have my own father around, I don't really have a clear model of what it was supposed to be. Can we talk a little bit about that pressure that sometimes we as parents place on ourselves?Kier: Oh, man, it's the pressure. The pressure comes from larger society. The pressure comes from sociological best practices, right? We get pressure from comparing ourselves to our upbringings. We get pressure from contrasting and moving away from our upbringings. I grew up very poor and I don't wear that as a badge of honor. It's something I feel like negatively impacted me, and I do a lot to make sure that my daughters aren't in that situation. Probably sometimes overdeliver and do way more than I actually need to to meet their needs.So when you take all those different angles that the pressure is coming from, you're not getting beat up, bro. You getting jumped, you know, by all these expectations. Some of the things that I do to counter that, because I do understand that as my reality, is I had to reframe my idea of comparison. I know we say comparison is the thief of joy, and sometimes it is. But comparison is also a really amazing tool to help you evaluate where you are amongst your peers.I like to talk to my friends. Hey man, your kids doing this? And then when I hear other people respond, I feel a little more human. So my kid isn't the only one that doesn't flush the toilet. OK. I thought it was just me, dog. And then you continue to talk to people. You realize they struggle in their parent journeys, too. And humans, because we're such social creatures and because society sometimes is comprised of just made-up rules that we've just followed along for hundreds and thousands of years sometimes, we don't always know if we're doing a good job. And sometimes we need to see someone else struggle to have permission to be in our own humanity, you know?Julian: And I think it's interesting that as Black men and Black fathers, there's a very unique lane in the parenting ethos, right?Kier: Absolutely.Julian: I hear that, you know, me and my boys, we go back and forth like same thing. We compare, am I supposed to do like this? Am I going too hard on them? Should I ease up a little bit?Kier: Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that.Julian: Right. And even — and that's pressure, right? That's something that even above that's something that induces anxiety, too. And again, as society already has this very strong current of what the vision of a Black man should be, I'm always kind of balancing like, where do I fit in what that balance is. Is that something you experience too?Kier: Oh, absolutely. Every single day of my life. I'm by definition, cisgender, six foot one, dark-skinned Black man. It's very easy for me to not say the right thing or for me to misinterpret my own understanding of something and alienate groups of people at one time, just from not fully understanding where I am or understanding the nuance or context in the way people talk and the way people identify, and the way people express their lived experiences. So I'm always really careful of that.Julian: I want to transition over to social media, because that has been a big portion of your life recently. You have this incredible following on social media, right? 400,000 followers on Instagram, 50,000 on YouTube. Couple of years ago, you went viral for posting a very transparent video on fatherhood. Listeners, the link will be in the show notes, so please check that video. I watched it about six times. You received a great response from people. And I got to ask, what's it feel like to go viral? And were you surprised by the response that you got?Kier: I was completely surprised, but it was beautiful. Came right after George Floyd was murdered. I think the world was in a place, our collective consciousness, to hear Black men another way, to hear about fatherhood in another way. And I think that the tone was different than a lot of content that talks to men.We don't talk to men with warmth, and it's always very hustle culture. Go get it. You got to do this. And I mean, everyone sounds like a drill sergeant. And even though I get that's stereotypically how we think men connect to messages, we see that it ain't. We see that that does not work.You work in the schools. You work with young boys. Even when they got those tough exteriors, you get them behind a wall and you start talking calmly to them, and you get to see a different person. In those boys, the only difference between them and the men that they'll grow into is a couple years' time and some experiences. They're the same person for the most part with very similar needs. So I think that's why the video hit like that. But I don't know — man, I ain't never expect all of this. You kidding me? And I didn't think anybody would care at all.Julian: I guess I'm personally interested, like, what was the spark that told you you needed to start doing this? Like, where did it go from — you said you were an educator and you're now a licensed therapist. What made you decide to say, I need to get some content together, I need to get my thoughts out there?Kier: It just felt good. It felt good. I started off doing fatherhood content, and in the process of that, in the process of this video exploding, I passed my licensure exam to become a therapist. And it just took me a while. I've always created content. I've been making content since 2000, 2001, on a big fat VHS camera with VHS-C tapes.Julian: We're going way back. Was this MySpace? Or are we talking Black Planet?Kier: Oh, we talking Black Planet, bro. We talking about MySpace top 8, yeah. We talking straight Black Planet and all those. But yeah, I just, I don't know. I don't think it was a singular thing that inspired me. I always liked to put my thoughts on tape, and I created — I got through this master's program and I started treating people and I started learning more about this counseling world. And there's so much information. You got degrees and stuff, academics. Academics will talk over your head all day "with a marginal propensity of the neurofibromatic." They love words and jargon.Julian: $20 words. Those are the $20 words. You gotta break it down to the five sometimes.Kier: Got to break it down to the five sometimes. Make change for me, bro. I don't care about — I don't care how smart you are. I just want to get better. So I was able to find a way to synthesize that. And here we are, three years and almost half a million people later.Julian: You know the videos that you do and continue to do, they're dope, right? Like, they're just content that needs to be out there. And to me, it's content that is part of that better side, that positive influence that social media can have. As a father, as again, as an educator, I appreciate that. I like to see positive messages, thought-provoking work. But then there's also a lot of challenges that come with social media.Now, as my role as an assistant principal in an urban high school, a lot of my day is consumed with conflicts that stem from social media: the chats, the group chats, all the beef that comes from the instantaneous sharing of things, the video, all of that — from bullying, altercations, the insecurities that students have because of what social media says. I'm interested to hear your take. As somebody who is a content producer of positive work out there, what is your take on the impact of social media on mental health?Kier: Oh, well, social media, we know — I think what you just said, research is already back that all of the heaviest negative mental health outcomes have been linked to heavy social media users. Suicide ideation, anxiety, depression, body dysmorphia. You go into — social media can be linked to an increase in some of those conditions and outcomes.But man, it also has so many positive aspects. We're social creatures. Social media is one of the most powerful tools in the world. You can figure out how millions of people think within a couple hours. You have access to so much data, you have access to so many tools and resources that can help you better your life. It's one of those things where I think social media exacerbates conditions that we already struggle with. I think that exists with a lot of things we grapple with.If I'm self-conscious about myself being poor, my mind is likely to drift to content that will look at a lifestyle that I wish that I had, and start to unfairly compare myself. We here — we know all of the social media reoccurring things that we talk about. You're watching other people's highlights. People don't talk about their downside on social media.But I don't know if people understand how incredibly curated the content is, and especially our children. And when they see that, they see the guy in the Bugatti who's 19 years old. Dude, you know, he is a one of a billion, but there's billions of people. And what if there are three of those guys on this kid's timeline? And now it's an overrepresentation of what exists in the larger world.Julian: Well, I think what you did say, though, we're a tool. And I think for our listeners, understanding that aspect of it, that if we frame the phone, social media, the instantaneous communication, the technology as a tool, all right. Like it's not just the end all be all. If like anything the tool is used for a purpose, then that tool can be harnessed for positive or harnessed for a positive purpose. So I appreciate that part.And, you know, again, as a parent educator, and I wonder, you know, for years, again, somebody who is a content creator, but somebody who also is a mental health specialist, do you have any concerns for your own situation as a parent? Do you have any concerns for how you're going to implement social media in your own household?Kier: It's tough to safeguard your children when there's access, when they can have access to the internet remotely. But the best thing you can do to safeguard your children is to have open and honest and transparent conversations. My daughter's 5 right now, so the extent of her usage of social media, she plays Roblox. And sometimes we'll be on Roblox and there will be somebody who requests for her to be a friend. And we got all the parental settings on there that safeguards the kids as much as they can.But I'll use that as an opportunity. Oh, who is this person? Do we know this person? Why don't we talk to strangers? What can happen if we talk to strangers? And we're not big on fear mongering in the house. Fear stops you from doing things, but not for a reason that is intrinsic to your understanding. You just know you're not supposed to do it. We try to explain it — like this is what can happen if you do this thing — and allow her to ask questions and feel comfortable coming to us asking questions.The second part to that for me is my baby's 5, my oldest is 5, my youngest is 16 months old. And I remember when my my oldest was 4 months old, I was such a judgmental parent. "I'll never let my kid have a whole bunch of screen time." Or "I'll never let my kid eat snacks an hour before dinner." And all of my "I would never let" have become my "I allow far too often.".So I don't want to — I'm not a John Wayne, two guns blazing, talking about what I'm not gonna to do when it comes to the internet. But my daughter understands what I do for a living. And with us, having a heightened level of visibility it's really important for us to talk about all of those fundamental ground rules of social media. For her, the one we establish right now, she watches YouTube. And we say, if there are no kids in the video, then you can't watch it. Because sometimes there's adolescents and pre-teens in this concert she enjoys, she's a really smart kid, but she's still 5 years old. We don't want her to be overexposed. So when she's on social media, we're in the background. When she's engaged, we're engaging too. Even if it's passively listening to the content she listens to it, and just having a level of involvement.Julian: I love the idea of open communication and modeling how you're using social media with her so that she sees that example. This is how we can use it to benefit us. And again, that positive way.Kier: Oh yeah, for sure.Julian: Parents, we really want to protect our kids. That's something that going back to that — yeah, you know, that that vision of what parenting is supposed to be: keep them safe. And we don't want them to see violent videos or read cruel comments. We want them to be confident in the way they look. But the reality is we can't always control or monitor everything that they see or hear. Do you have any helpful tips or ways for parents or kids to engage in positive social media, like any specific tips that you could provide?Kier: Yeah, I think it goes back to that open communication piece. That open communication piece and having — whenever kids come in to counseling, teenagers, I don't work with them very often. But when I do work with them, one of the most difficult things is having the parents understand there's a particular level of privacy that this young person enjoys while they're in counseling. And within that comes this unique power struggle. You know, the parent is the ultimate authoritative piece. I need to know every single thing.And what we learn in therapy sometimes is that the way that the parent responds to things that make them uncomfortable or things that they don't want to hear dictates directly how open that child is with them. I'm not saying that it be easy. My daughter's 5. She tells me things that make me fly off the handle sometimes. I don't always do a good job of that, but I am always practicing getting better.I use little opportunities. She told me something alarming. And I'm like, OK, baby, tell me more. I'm fighting it back. But it's important that she feels like she could be open and honest with me. We can't stop the bad things from happening, but we do have a solid foundation by which we can have almost any conversation for when those things actually do occur.Julian: I think it's also about just making sure that you're very intentional about the accounts that you and/or your child are following, making sure to monitor which accounts they have. And just making sure that there's age-appropriate boundaries for what pre-teen versus a teenager might post.Kier: I agree. Can I add something else to that? I think that's a really good point. Adding those boundaries and trying to stay consistent with them. Children, even teenagers, preteens, adolescents, these are individuals that took a brain that understood nothing and then learned language and then made use of it. They are very good at figuring out patterns. And when you're inconsistent, they'll see the pattern.Sometimes we got a rule on the way to school. Sometimes my daughter can't have her app, but sometimes I'll break the rules. In therapy, we call it norm in the room. Norm in the room is when you walk in and there's a group of people and you let every — you let everybody know what the expectation is and what the boundaries are before you say a single word. You norm the rule. Everybody knows what they expect.And you can norm your child in very similar ways. Whereas having the pre-conversation, hey, I'm going to let you play with your iPad today for extra hour or so because Daddy has to do ABC. That way, even though it's a deviation from the daily plan or from what you typically do, they have context as to why, you know, and it's not a complete disruption of the pattern of the rules that you establish. Because that consistency is key with kids, but it's very hard to keep up.Julian: That's funny you say that. That's — my kids get a little bit of extra Netflix any time Dad is recording a podcast. So they get excited when it's Dad's turn to do the podcast is oh, we get a little extra Netflix today. But again, the pre-conversation, the giving the rationale and pulling the curtain past of your thinking so that there's that open communication between parent and child.I want to just ask you a ton of questions myself because I think a lot of the conversation you can have for me will be helpful. But I appreciate just coming on and sharing your expertise, sharing your journey, sharing you know, who you are as a person. And I just want to personally thank you for joining me today.Listeners, before we go, I want to share some resources that promote good mental health. We'll also linked to them in the show notes. Kiers' Instagram @KierGaines, and his YouTube channel.Kier: Spell it out for them.Julian: UCLA Health, Free Guided Meditation, Mental Health America, and of course Understood's Wunder app. Be sure to check these out. They're all incredible. Kier, thank you again. I appreciate you, brother. I really appreciate what you're doing.Kier: I appreciate you. I appreciate all the work you do in the schools. I only had one — I only saw one Black male from the time I was in pre-K till sheesh, maybe 10th grade. So just your presence in the school and you actually caring about the kids that walk through those doors? It reverberates throughout their lives, whether you know it or not, man. So even off this camera and this platform, thank you for everything you do. It is critically impactful, man.Julian: Thank you. I appreciate that. And it's good work. It's the work that needs to be done. So, listeners, thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon.Kier: Yeah, thank you.Julian: You've been listening to "The Opportunity Gap" from the Understood Podcast Network. This show is for you, so we want to make sure you're getting what you need. Is there a topic you'd like us to cover? We want to hear from you. Email us at OpportunityGap@understood.org.If you want to learn more about the topics we covered today, check out the show notes for this episode. We include more resources as well as links to anything we mentioned in the episode.Understood.org is a resource dedicated to helping people who learn and think differently discover their potential and thrive. Learn more at understood.org/mission. "The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Tara Drinks, edited by Cin Pim. Briana Berry is our production director. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. For the Understood Podcast Network, Laura Key is our editorial director, Scott Cocchiere is our creative director, and Seth Melnick is our executive producer. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
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