Can I get rid of my adult sensory issues?

Rae puts on her most uncomfortable pants (on purpose!) to ask a fashion designer and former special ed teacher whether adults can actually get over sensory issues. Julia DeNey, founder of sensory clothing brand Sense-ational You, breaks down why tactile sensitivity doesn’t disappear at 18, what adaptive fashion can (and can’t) fix, and why telling yourself “today’s the day I get over it” is the worst possible strategy.

• Listen: ADHD and sensory overwhelm: Itchy tags and tight clothes

• Read: ADHD and sensory overload

• Watch: Is “ring of fire” ADHD real?

Rae Jacobson: I just want to be able to put on a pair of pants that I think are cool and wear them. And if they don't fit me perfectly, who cares? Which takes me to my pants. Would you take a look at them for me? I'd love to hear about your experience with these pants. Do you mind if I come over to you and show them?

I wear my socks inside out. If a shirt has a tag that can't be removed, that's a shirt I'll never wear. I genuinely can't even put a number on the times I've been late because something was uncomfortable and I at times literally tore it from my body and had to change.

This is one of those if you know, you know things. Like honestly, if you've got a wool sweater on right now and it doesn't feel like a hair shirt, I cannot imagine what your life is like. Must be nice, dude. Does this sound silly? Childish? Like maybe something an adult could or should easily be able to get over? I get it. I get it and I can't do it.

This, to me, is one of the most frustrating and embarrassing parts of my ADHD. Sensory sensitivities that just won't quit. This used to be called tactile defensiveness, which is a great name for a terrible thing, and I get why because I got to tell you it does make me defensive.

I want to not be like this. I want this problem to go away. I want to be able to wear these pink pants I got on sale and can't return that I really like and not want to scream and writhe and take them off the second that I put them on. I just want to be, in this one respect, normal.

Is that possible? Can I somehow get rid of my adult sensory issues? I asked someone who might know. Julia DeNey. I think so many more people are affected by sensory with clothing than is talked about.

Julia is a fashion designer and a former special education teacher who — and I can admit this now — I was kind of hoping would just come on and fix me. So I put on my uncomfortable pants and asked for her help. So today on "Hyperfocus," a physically uncomfortable chat with the very lovely Julia DeNey.

Hi! Hello! Welcome to the show. This is Julia DeNey. And would you tell us a little bit about who you are and why you're here today to help me with a very annoying problem?

Julia DeNey: Yes. So I've been — funny background of two things basically coming together — but I majored in fashion design and, pretty much because of the pandemic, ended up working in special education. They needed in-person workers and the fashion industry was shut down.

What I'd been exploring during college was this idea of adaptive fashion, which is changing clothing to meet the needs of people with disabilities. And so it all came together, I started working in special ed, and I realized how many of my students struggled with sensory needs, especially with their clothing — like if their clothes got wet, how much that would cause or how much it affected their learning.

So I combined the two backgrounds and created a sensory clothing brand, which is all designed to be really comfortable and free of sensory irritants like tags and seams, while adding in tools to help support sensory needs in general — like hoods that block sound, fidgets built in, compression hidden underneath. So adding tools in in a very convenient way.

Rae: That's so cool. I like — now I want to wear your clothing. It's so interesting you say you make adaptive clothing because I've kind of brought you on here to help me with something that is the opposite.

(03:51) Why adult sensory issues are often ignored or treated as a childish problem.

Julia: Like so many of us who struggle with sensory issues, I've gotten pretty good at creating my own version of ad hoc adaptive fashion. Avoiding this, buying two of that, turning something inside out. But what I wanted — and what I was frankly trying to get Julia to tell me was possible — was to know not if I could change my pants, but if I could change me.

Rae: I have ADHD and adult sensory issues. It's not maybe to the degree that somebody who would need one of those like noise-dampening hoods or anything like that, but I am very sensitive to things that are uncomfortable.

And it has been a lifelong problem for me and the older I get, the more irritated I am by it because often I'll get pieces of clothing or things I'm excited about and I literally can't wear them. And today, I am wearing one of those pieces of clothing. They're great pants. They were on sale. And I hate them so much.

They look great and I just want them off my body. I would love to like rip them from my body right now. So I am so happy that you're here because I think hopefully you're going to be able to help me try to learn at least if there's a way that's less that I can adapt my clothing to me — which I'm very good at — and to see if there's a way that I can adapt me so that I can wear clothes. And we're going to talk about sensory issues and why they're so hard for people with ADHD.

Julia: No, it's definitely a huge thing. I think it's even bigger than I realized it was when I first started making sensory clothing, working with my students, and just how many people it affects. They estimate between like one in six and one in ten people have some sort of sensory processing disorder or need or struggle.

Rae: I didn't realize it was that high.

Julia: Yeah, it's a lot higher than I think most people realize.

Rae: One of the things to me that feels kind of like tricky about this conversation is that it lives often in the world of kids, right? Like the itchy wool sweater your mom put you in, your students — it's something that we don't really talk about for adults because it feels like a childlike thing.

Like I am — of all the things that I've talked about on the show — let me tell you there have been a lot that I was like, oh, I can't believe I'm talking about this in front of an invisible audience and my coworkers — this is the one that makes me feel the most embarrassed. This is the one that is the hardest because it is — like it makes you feel sort of — I don't know what the right word is — like untough?

Julia: Yeah. And I think it's just because of the lack of conversation around it. And the conversations that do happen, I think even with kids, I think it's where that starts where you hear so much as a kid — like just get over it, like you need to wear it, be quiet, deal with it.

And I think that idea carries over to when you're an adult. You're like, well, now I should be the one who just deals with it without being told to.

Rae: Right. I'm an adult. Why can't I just deal with it?

Julia: Right. And I think it's something that just never goes away. Sensory needs aren't something that you just magically grow out of when you turn 18 or 16 or when people think you grow out of them. It's something that really does carry on through adulthood.

Rae: So you made this adaptive clothing company based on all of these things that you saw with your students. And when you see — like I guess I'm asking about a child while I really do want to be talking about adults — but because these are the examples that we have — like honestly when we were looking for guests for this show, we had a very hard time finding someone who could talk about adult sensory issues at all. Especially if you weren't talking about it in the context of autism, which is kind of I think where it often lives.

And that is very real and very important, but the ADHD side gets talked about like a lot less.

Julia: It does.

Rae: So when you would see your students — because I'm curious about this in terms of my own experience and the experience that I kind of hear about from others — a student who's in comfortable clothing who is not in sensory distress versus a student who, insert discomfort here — their sleeve is wet, their chair is uncomfortable, their pants are too tight, whatever, the thing, the tag — as a teacher, what were you seeing?

(08:31) How sensory triggers can mimic behavioral issues in the classroom and how simple fixes can transform a student's focus.

Julia: Yeah, I think it was interesting because it really is something that you have to really look for. And I think I was looking at it from the perspective of coming in having studied adaptive fashion and so I was looking at sensory, whereas a lot of times in the classroom teachers are trained in behavior.

So you're just looking at kind of are they listening, are they not — like behavioral triggers are sometimes very different than sensory triggers. So it really was a variety of things but like with one student when you mentioned tags, I remember it was very early on into me teaching and she was from my observations like our number one listener — like who I was as a student — just like wanted to listen, be the first in line when we had to leave the classroom.

And there was one day she just was not lining up. Everyone else was and she wasn't moving from her spot. And some of the other teachers were getting very frustrated because she usually listened so well — so you're kind of like, hello, like line up.

And I just realized she was like pulling at something in her shirt. And having sort of studied this, I just went over, took a pair of scissors and cut the tag out she was playing with. And she didn't say anything, she just looked up at me and then lined up. Like I didn't even have to tell her to line up again.

And I was like, oh, your brain like could not process the next piece of information. But it was in there. She heard, she knew the direction, she was going to listen. She just was immobile until we could deal with the tag issue.

And that's where it really clicked for me where I was like, it's not always the most extreme behavior you think of. Like the shirt gets wet and it's immediate screaming. And that does happen, but there are a lot more subtle behaviors that really ultimately underlying could be sensory needs.

Rae: Yeah, that's so observant and like amazing that you were able to see that. Because I think that is a thing that — like you know, if you ask anyone, any person of any age if they were able to listen better when they weren't uncomfortable, they would probably say yes.

And if you ask them if it's easy to listen when they're like stuffed into some piece of clothing that's upsetting them — I don't think it is. I feel like when you talk about adaptive fashion, that to me has always seemed like the kind of thing that like kids need someone to sort of do for them and adults often do for ourselves. Does that like feel right to you?

Julia: That's interesting. Yeah, I mean I think there's a huge market now of adaptive fashion. I think it means so many things now and it addresses so many different disabilities and it's kids and adults and just making those accommodations in clothing. I do think there is a lot more that starts out being for kids because they can't make those changes for themselves so you really do have to. But I think it's going to continue to grow into adults having more options where like you don't have to adapt yourself as much hopefully. And there are just more options that naturally are adapted for you.

Rae: Sort of like a universal design thing. I guess we should go back and define like what is adaptive fashion?

Julia: Yeah. It's definitely more of a new term so I'm sure everyone kind of is defining it differently. But really in a broad sense it just means that the clothing is changed or designed in a very specific different way that meets a specific need, usually surrounding a disability.

So pants that work better for wheelchair users, easier to put on if you're a quadriplegic, sensory needs are met, G-tube access — really it can cover a wide variety of things. There's a clothing brand even for people with a visual impairment that have braille with the colors on it on the little label.

Rae: Oh, that's so cool.

Julia: Yeah. So like really it covers so many — it becomes a very — like a giant umbrella. Right. But in a sense it's just changing clothing to meet needs in a more inclusive way, making fashion more accessible to people who can't wear traditional clothes.

(13:06) The emotional weight of being "unable" to wear certain items.

Rae: I think that's wonderful and like something that — you know, I was talking — my husband works at Parsons, which is a fashion school. When I was thinking about this episode, I was talking to him and he was talking about how people there were working mostly for physical disabilities in an adaptive fashion way.

And he was saying how unusual it is to see people working for people who are neurodivergent and applying adaptive fashion practices there. And then he brought up the time that we went snow boot shopping. Oh yeah. Which to him was literally the most traumatic day of our marriage. Oh no.

Here's what happened. We were living in New Orleans. We came here, there was a blizzard, it was unexpected. We had to buy snow boots on the fly. In my normal life, I would never, never, never bring a partner of all people with me to do this. I would do that alone because I know what I'm like. I had no choice.

Julia, we went to 11 stores. Oh my God. It was terrible. I kept being like, you can leave. And he was like, no, it's fine. And you know, we were joking around about it, but he was really like, I could not understand — like why wouldn't you just buy a pair of boots?

And in my mind, I'm like, I'm going to get these things and I'm going to be miserable and uncomfortable and they're going to be expensive and I don't have a lot of money and then I'm just going to have them sitting in my room. You know, it's like this spiraling thing.

And so when I think about adaptive fashion, I think it's this like amazing thing that is awesome. But it wasn't there for my snow boots. So you know, I think that there is this other side of this that we don't get to talk about as much, which is like just emotionally for me — sometimes I'm like, I just want to be able to do what other people can do.

I just want to be able to put on a pair of pants that I think are cool and wear them. And if they don't fit me perfectly, who cares? It's pants. I just want to be able to buy the snow boots. And that has not been my experience.

And I know that this is like — you know, I've talked to some friends of mine who also have ADHD and not only is it like ridiculous where people are like just put your shoes on, put your — just do it. Like you don't need to try on multiple different things. Just — just get the best one. They look nice on you, just buy them, right?

And especially now I feel like it's getting worse with everything is online — which takes me to my pants. Yes. Would you take a look at them for me? Do you mind if I come over to you and show them? Okay. They are pink.

Julia: I love the pink.

Rae: Now, these pants were final sale. Oh, yeah. So they weren't going back. Not that I'm great at returning things in the first place. But they're great, I think they're a lot of fun. They're pink. Who doesn't want a pair of pink pants? It's so fun.

Since you have gotten here and I am wearing these on purpose for this interview — have been like distinctly physically miserable. And it is genuinely harder for me to listen to what you're saying and to like be present in the moment where we are, right?

And even like sitting in a chair like this — the way that you're sitting with your legs on the ground — like I would want to put my feet up underneath me because that's just physically more comfortable for me.

And I think like all of that takes me to like one of the big questions I have for you, which is like, I love that there is adaptive fashion. Right. But I do wonder is there a way to get better at adapting to the things that you want?

Julia: Yeah. I think it's interesting because there definitely certain things — like when you stood up and like touched the waistband of — like okay, it's a very thick hard denim with no stretch. Like that's going to be hard to overcome.

And I think that's one of the things we're talking about like the snow boots — like no one really finds denim that that thick and rough comfortable. Those are not your like lounging on the couch pants. No. But I think how you're able to tolerate them — it'd be kind of like if there's a pebble in your shoe.

Like you could walk with it for a little bit. But are you going to run a marathon with a pebble in your shoe? Like probably not. So I think like denim is one of those things, especially like that thick denim with like no spandex in it, which is really what adds that like stretch to denim so you can move.

For a while there was like the jegging phenomenon where it was like mostly spandex with a little denim. And now they have like different blends where it's a little more comfortable. When it's that really rough like workwear denim — like why denim was invented to like be rugged and hold up — it is uncomfortable.

And so it's hard because then that enters like your tolerance to discomfort that we were talking about. Where those pants are never going to be someone's most comfortable pair of pants in their closet. But it's like can you tolerate wearing them or not?

(18:31) The possibility of building "exposure" to difficult fabrics and the practical limits of pushing through sensory discomfort.

Julia: And I think there's certain things like when you say adapt to the pants versus adapting the pants, I think what's hard is like it is your nervous system's response. So could you try to like make yourself wear the pants for like five minutes every day and build that up to ten minutes and try to adjust to them?

Rae: Or say a podcast interview's length.

Julia: Yeah, a podcast interview's length. And try to build up like your body being used to the uncomfortableness of this specific pair of pants? Probably. But is it worth it?

Rae: I think that is kind of — it's true, that's the heart of it is like, is it worth it? I don't know. I don't know if it's worth it. I know that there is a part of me that like bridles at the things that I can't do. You know, that it's like, I want to wear these pants, why can't I just put them on and just be fine?

Why can't I get out the door at the speed of other people? Why do I have to change my socks? Why do I have to turn them inside out almost every time? You know, another — like again to like that this is a funny topic to talk about like in front of a live studio audience — not that there is one — but like I don't wear bras because they're uncomfortable.

Julia: Right.

Rae: I just don't do it. And I feel like there's a lot of — I don't want to say like societal norms that you're violating — but like there is something about it that makes me feel like this is a part of my ADHD, a part of my neurodiversity that is not serving me and is also something that I like cannot overcome.

And those two things together make it feel like a really limiting part of this particular experience. And I don't feel that way about all of my ADHD at all, right? But this is something that I find really hard. And I guess kind of what I hear you saying is like, yeah you could do it, but like to what end?

Julia: Yeah. And you can make small changes — like if the waistband is in particular really rough and really tight and affecting you more because you're sitting for the podcast, like you could cut into the sides and like add some elastic or you could, you know, kind of expand it so it's not as tight and restricting.

Like there are ways you can adapt that exact pair of pants to make them a little more tolerable where that discomfort maybe they last a little longer than the — like maybe you could wear them to the podcast instead of them — you know, like make them a little more enjoyable where that tolerance can be longer.

And I think part of it — like with anything with sensory — it's like that's just going to affect your tolerance for anything else. So maybe don't wear your most uncomfortable pair of pants you want to wear out to a concert where you're already going to be overstimulated and the pants are going to add onto that.

Rae: That's a good point. Well, also to your point about your student with the tag — like if you're wearing something that's like, let's call it a challenging item of clothing, a challenge piece — if you are doing that, maybe you don't do it on the day you have a big presentation.

Maybe you don't do it on a day where you are about to get your period and you're already in a crummy mood. Adapt to your adaptiveness.

Julia: Yeah, exactly. Don't have the day you're wearing your most challenging piece of clothing be the day you're going to have the most demands put on you, the most transitions, a totally new environment — whatever your added stressors are, your least favorite other sensory environments or anything that's also challenging with your ADHD. Don't have that be the day you wear your least favorite pair of pants. It's just going to create a really hard day.

(22:15) Why sensory issues are so individualized and why validating the experience is sometimes more helpful than fixing it.

Rae: Yeah, that's really true. But it's an interesting thing also that you talk about like building up some amount of tolerance. Because I do think that that is like — that's to me where the like wiggle room exists. Like have you seen that happen? Have you seen that work?

Julia: Yeah, I definitely think to smaller degrees. I think when talking about it, it can be hard because I think especially in a lot of therapeutic settings or special ed, it can be talked about in a not very neurodivergent-affirming way. It's kind of a forceful way.

But there is ways where it's just like slight exposures to things kind of reduce like anxiety to it — even just anxiety of your nervous system, like this unexpected feeling you're not used to. I know I also feel badly now you're in these pants this whole episode.

And so I think you do notice — like you know, we definitely had kids that when I started teaching — you know, their mom said, well, I can only send him to school in sweatpants because that's all he'll wear. And my school did have a uniform that like our kids had an exception to, but it was a general uniform of like wearing khakis and the polo.

And I saw after a couple years — like they were coming in in khakis that had like an elastic waistband and then full khakis a few years later. Like I did see that as they got older. And I don't think it's that suddenly they grew out of their disdain for khakis. I just think they like slowly found ways to get used to it.

I think if there is wiggle room within your own experience of something sensory, I think you can adjust. But I think there's limits to that.

Rae: Yeah. I hear you that there is an exposure aspect to it — like you just kind of have to work through things. And I feel like one of the challenges for me with that is — like the emotional responsiveness that comes with being like not only uncomfortable but being like, I don't want to be uncomfortable — like I want to be able to do this.

The original name for sensory issues in ADHD — I love this so much — was tactile defensiveness. That's so funny now that you say that. I love it so much. Like if I ever had a band, it would be called Tactile Defensiveness.

But like that is kind of what it feels like. It like puts my back up. I feel like this frustration. And I think — I have learned to dress around it. Like I'm not wearing sweatpants every day — you know, like I do think — like when you talk about adaptive fashion, I can't help but think of like athleisure.

A lot — like and I'm not rocking yoga pants to work, but like you do find your ways. And that is like, you know, that's the chance that you have to like advocate for yourself and make changes for yourself.

Julia: 100%.

Rae: And I wonder like — I don't know — I guess kind of what I hear you saying is like, yeah you could do it, but like to what end?

Julia: Yeah. And it's a hard one because there isn't a distinct answer and it's so different for everyone. Everyone really experiences sensory so differently that it would be even if there was an answer to one person's type of sensory aversion, it's not a quick answer that can be widely applied.

Rae: That's such a good point. I didn't really think — I'm like, give me universal advice! And you're like, that doesn't exist.

Julia: Well, it's hard because they — I mean one, we have so many different senses. And everyone's experience of those senses are different and at different times — kind of as we talked about like in different environments if they're harder — like your ability to handle an outside sudden noise is going to be different in different environments.

If you're comfortable at home, maybe you're a little bit like, okay, that was a lot, but I'm fine. But if you're already out, you're at your max of your sensory input, you're in uncomfortable pants and there's like a fire truck that goes by — like that just might be it. You might just be done.

Rae: Yeah, it is so personal. I think maybe what it really is is that you're validating for me and for anyone who experiences this that this is simply part of your experience. That is where we are. And I guess there is a part of me that finds that answer to be like a little heartbreaking, you know?

But I think so much of neurodiversity stuff is like this, right? Where it's like this is my small individual experience. It like is very present in my everyday. And the solutions that exist may not be the ones that I like personally want there to exist. I want there to be something different than what is there.

Julia: You know. And I think that's hard. I think sometimes there's also just maybe getting some comfort from the fact that like it isn't a "you" thing. Yeah. This isn't like you aren't able to tolerate these pants. Like it's like 90% of neurodivergent people struggle with sensory issues.

So it is such a universal experience and it might not be everyday clothing for every person, but it is a huge portion of people and it's not something that is childish. Like it's definitely talked about with kids a lot and I think that's maybe where some of that comes from when you said to me like it almost feels uncomfortable talking about it.

But I mean you don't grow out of it. So if it's 90% of kids, it's 90% of adults who are neurodivergent also. And I hope that in us even just having conversations like this, like maybe that provides some comfort where you're like, you know what? Then I don't need to wear the pants. Like enough people would also have a problem with these pants.

Rae: I mean in some ways it's also really validating because I think there's something to these issues that feel — I think there's things that are like this is a secret shame — but it's like it's so feels so big and so important and so weighty that like we talk about it.

You know what I mean? It's a heavy thing but we discuss it. Like depression. But for something like this to be the thing that's so disruptive — like you said, it's undermining, it's hard. So having that be out there and be like, you know, a lot of people experience this. I'm probably not the only one who feels like a little like bad about it, you know?

It's nice to be able to talk about it in the open. And it's a good point that like you may not be able to adapt to the mainstream of experience. But you can find ways to make your experience better. And it doesn't always have to look like, you know, completely stepping out of what you want.

It can be something where you like you adjust, make small adjustments, put elastic in the waistband. This kind of applies across a lot of pieces of neurodiversity, a lot of just like any difference, right? Like you just find your way of being a person in the world that you live in.

Julia: Right. And making it your normal. Part of your normal of getting dressed and your normal of clothing shopping and making that experience as positive for you as possible. I think it almost makes itself more negative the more you try to just be like, today is the day I'm just going to get over it and I'm going to be fine.

Rae: That's what I say to myself every morning. Today is the day we're just going to walk into T.J. Maxx and just go to town.

Julia: Yeah. And I think that's harder because you're setting yourself up for that day not to be the day you get over it because it's not something you can just rewire your brain about by saying you're going to get over it.

Rae: It's so true though and it is something that you do where you're like today's the day that I am no longer bothered by this. And it's like, no, today is not that day. You're like, oh, maybe not today. I thought today was going to be that day.

But I like — I love your perspective on this because I think it is something that is like both realistic and accepting. And I like — I don't know that we have like great language for a lot of the like more specific challenges that we have as adults who are neurodivergent. And I think something like this requires a whole conversation and the way that you look at it is unique and for me has been really helpful.

Julia: Good.

Rae: All right. We are almost done, but I have a question for you which is: What is the most uncomfortable item of clothing that you own?

Julia: I really tried so hard to enter a turtleneck era again. And I really can't. I hate the feeling of being choked or like that choking feeling. But I like bought this blue turtleneck in like my favorite color — it was trending and I was like, it's going to be gorgeous. And I just feel like it's choking me the whole time.

Like I can't. I try. I've worn it for specific outings for a little bit, but it doesn't make it far.

Rae: All right. Well, how about if I don't wear my pants and you don't wear your turtleneck and instead we find more comfortable things?

Julia: That sounds perfect.

Rae: Let's both not wear things that make us unhappy.

Julia: I agree. That's a good plan.

Rae: This has been amazing. Thank you so much. What you didn't say was the name of your company.

Julia: Oh, yeah! It's Sense-ational You. Little pun there. Yeah, that's awesome. Yep. It's super fun. And it's also sensoryclothes.com, which is an easier one if you can't remember the pun in the spelling.

Rae: Fantastic. Thank you so much.

Julia: Yes, thank you! This was fun.

Rae: I'm going to go take these pants off.

Julia: Good.

Rae: "Hyperfocus" is made by me, Rae Jacobson, and Cody Nelson. Calvin Knie is our video producer and video is edited by Alyssa Shea. Our research correspondent is Dr. KJ Wynne. Briana Berry is our production director and Neal Drummond is our editorial director.

If you have any questions for us or ideas for future episodes, write me an email or send a voice memo to hyperfocus@understood.org. This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Jordan Davidson.

Understood is a nonprofit dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, you can donate at understood.org/give.