An Emmy winner’s trick for ADHD idea overload (Live show!)

We recorded our first-ever live show in front of a studio audience! Emmy Award–winning writer, director, and producer Adam Reid, co-creator of “Tiny Chef,” joined Cate to talk about ADHD creativity: what works, what doesn’t, when to dig in, when to let things go, and why finishing things isn't always the point.

Adam talked candidly about being diagnosed with ADHD at 45, after years of building an Emmy-winning creative career without knowing why his brain worked the way it did. And he and Cate shared how they make it work (or not) as neurodivergent creators. Check it out!

• Read: ADHD and creativity

• Watch: Cate answers your burning ADHD questions

Adam Reid: I've learned to give myself permission to suck at something, permission to fail, permission to get excited by it. I have no shortage of ideas. It's putting them into motion is the scary part. And also which ones. But there's a different way of looking at it maybe, which is, oh my god, I'm really excited about this right now, and it may become nothing. And that's okay, because it's like nothing is lost.

Cate Osborn: Hi everybody and welcome to "Sorry I Missed This," the show where we talk about all things ADHD and its relationship to relationships, sex, intimacy, communication, and more. As always, I am your host, Cate Osborn, and welcome to the first ever live studio audience spectacular!

That's a lot of applause. It went on for so long. Thank you all so much for being here. I'm so grateful. And for all of you who are joining us here online in the livestream, thank you so much for being part of this as well. We are so excited to be doing this.

This is the first time that we have ever done this. Understood has been making podcasts for a few years now with the Understood Network and all of that great stuff. We have a number of different shows that we do and this is the first time that we've ever been in the studio live with all of you. So we're so grateful.

For those of you who don't know the work that Understood does, Understood is an incredible not-for-profit that is dedicated to raising awareness and education around ADHD and learning differences and keeping that education free and accessible to everybody of all ages. The work is amazing and incredible and I am obviously a huge fan.

If you are interested in donating, there is a QR code on your screen, or you can go to u.org/giving. G-I-V-I-N-G. That's really risky to have to spell in front of a live audience, but we did it. I'm super excited. But yeah, so thank you all so much for being here. I really, really appreciate it. And so without further ado, I'm so excited to welcome you to this episode about ADHD and creativity.

When we first decided to do this episode, I was so excited and I was immediately like we have to get my friend Adam. For those of you who don't know, Adam Reid is an Emmy Award — winning writer, he is a director, he is a filmmaker, he is a producer. He is one of the most brilliant and creative people that I've ever met in my entire life. Adam Reid, welcome to the show!

(02:41) Defining and practicing creativity.

Adam Reid: This is so stupid, but I wanted note cards that said Understood on the back more than anything in the entire world and I have them and I feel so powerful right now. This is my "Succession" moment.

Cate: And I don't know what's on them either. You were like do you want the cards? I'm like don't give me the cards.

Adam: Keep it fresh.

Cate: First question on my powerful cards. Adam, how do you define creativity?

Adam: Oh god. See, I should have gotten all the cards in advance. I think there's the way that we do things and there's what one might normally do. And for me and my brain, since I was a little boy, it was like oh, what's the other way? And I think that's really appropriate to be here because I think — I don't know, I didn't know for a long time — but I think differently.

Cate: Well, if you were going to action verb creativity — is creativity a choice? Is it a practice? Is it inherently existing? That's not an action verb, but you know what I mean.

Adam: I think we're all creative and it's a human thing. I think it's a muscle and like if you don't use it, you might lose it. But it's really a part of us. So it's like when we're kids and we play. We're inherently creative or we're excited about play — well you lose that too. You got to use it and the more you use it, the more it comes naturally.

The other thing I'll say just from a writing point of view is the hardest part isn't writing. It's showing up. And that gets so much easier the more you trust that that'll come.

Cate: Now I just want to throw out the fancy powerful questions because I just want to talk about that, right? Because I feel like one of the big challenges when it comes to ADHD is the start, the moment of beginning. Because we see, when you talk about executive functioning, when you talk about all of the different places where the starting happens, sometimes that starting is the most difficult part. So how do you navigate the starting of the thing with ADHD?

Adam: I've learned to give myself permission and that means permission to suck at something, permission to fail, permission to get excited by it. I have no shortage of ideas and I think a lot of us are like that where we're like I have a lot of ideas. It's putting them into motion is the scary part. And also which ones, because I'm only made of finite time.

But there's a different way of looking at it maybe, which is oh my god, I'm really excited about this right now, and it may become nothing. And that's okay because it's like nothing is lost. We're often looking for permission from the outside. Oh, that's a good idea. Oh, you should go do the thing.

We need to do that for ourselves creatively. And that's a muscle too and I, again, easier to talk about it than always do it. But that's the trick, is to say yes and say no. That may run out of steam in 10 minutes or 10 years and nothing is lost.

Cate: When you talk about permission, permission is, I think, for me at least, there's a loadedness to that, right? Because as somebody with ADHD, I've been told a lot in my life that I'm doing it bad or I'm doing it wrong or I need to do it differently or be different or be something else than I am.

Adam: I can't relate at all. Imagine. You're alone. I'm sorry.

Cate: I'm the only one ever. So that permission often gets really dicey really quickly. And then you add on the fact that sometimes there is a guilt and shame around creativity. Like the hyper-focuses and the hyper-fixations that we have left behind. I gave myself permission to do the thing and I failed. I gave myself permission to try or I took the big risk and it didn't work out. And now I feel even worse about myself. And that's a question that I hear a lot from people.

(06:15) The necessity of failure and the role of shame in the creative process.

Adam: I think the last thing you said is maybe the most important, which is we feel like we might fail or that we're being selfish somehow to either the responsibilities, the people, or even to ourselves, our future self, where we're going like I can't spend all this time and have it feel wasted. And I just want everyone to nest in their heart deep down because I don't think it takes easy, which is to say there is no such thing.

There is a reality to your responsibilities but take all that aside for a second. There is no growth without failure. And every great thing that's happened to me in my career is the direct result of eating shit so completely and really getting hurt. It hurts. That's life. And it's easier to talk about than it is to live through and sometimes it hurts a lot.

But here's the cool secret sauce because once you know. So you get kicked in the teeth or like Rocky, you get knocked out and it was the getting back up and what you take from it. There is no story if it's just like this happens, then this happens, then this happens. It's because of this, this happened.

And I think that is where we can find our best selves is going no, go after the thing, fail, do it again or adjust your approach. Decide it's not for you, that's growth. Oh, this is not what I thought it would be. I threw myself into this situation. So we started at a place, now we ended at a place and I have no idea where we started but I believe wholeheartedly in what I said.

Cate: I mean, I'm not going to lie to you, you said that sometimes you fail and then you get back up again and I just started hearing Chumbawamba in my head. So that was where I was at for a lot of that.

So a very famous piece of advice around creativity, specifically writing, but I think it applies to a lot of things, is "Kill Your Darlings." How do you feel about that advice especially when it comes to ADHD and being curious about a lot of things all the time?

Adam: I think when inspiration strikes, those are the darlings I think you speak of, or it's the first thing you write. And then ironically, by the end of the whole process because you've shaped an entire thing around that, often you don't need that and that's where that comes from. Like "Kill Your Darlings."

So that's one side. And then at the intersection of all your really different ideas — oh I'm into knitting but I'm also into stop-motion and miniatures. And then the weirdest ones, the things that don't belong together, is a shortcut to your voice. So I say, like, your real job — and it's hard because we have a lot of things that we're interested in.

Cate: Can you imagine? Is that crazy? You just talked about this in your amazing show. Everybody please go see it.

Adam: And this is like a whole core thing to it which is how do I choose? Don't, is my answer. And you might think well this is so singular, there's not going to be another rural farm knitting bondage space-exploring Lego master — I don't know, I'm trying really hard to come up with different things.

Cate: Hi. That's a show. We'll talk about it later.

Adam: I'd watch it. I'd watch it. You go that would clearly be just for me. In my opinion, it just became truly universal. And I think the things that we really respond to in art, or even food or music, it is people who found themselves through these expressions and your commitment and love of the thing.

Cate: I want to talk a little bit about what you said in terms of choosing and doing it all. Because one of the things that I experience real grief, real gut-wrenching grief about, is that you only get one life, right?

Adam: So you say.

Cate: So you say. And so I get really excited and really passionate about whatever. And for this particular example, I'm going to talk about the time that I became a magician. I'm very fun at parties. But so I got really into magic, and I loved it and I was curious about it and it was exciting to me.

But that whole time that I was learning magic, I wasn't learning about pasta making or cooking or oil painting or whatever. And so when it comes to that curiosity and that constant almost nagging curiosity of like everything is interesting and everything is fascinating and creativity is just knowing that all of that exists all the time, how do you handle that "I could be doing something else, maybe I could be doing something else that's better or different" or whatever?

Adam: I think a lot of people feel this, put a lot of additional — it's not unneeded, it's very real — but pressure to land on something because they need to commit and they feel like they want to, like in a gamer sense, they need to level up there. Which I think is what you're talking about. And if I'm leveling up here, all my other stats are going to be garbage.

Cate: My pasta stat's garbage.

Adam: Your pasta stat is really low. As long as you're genuinely responding to the thing, it's actually working. And it was like as long as you don't necessarily need anything more from it and it has a job to do, a role to play, in the "Lord of the Rings" sense, where everything has a part. It's a little bit of a mystery, right? So there are times when you feel spread thin or you're moving in too many directions at once where you may need to just make a list and go what's exciting me most right now?

(11:52) The cheese cave as a metaphor for letting ideas age without shame.

Adam: But again, nothing is lost. So sometimes starting is hard in the week because I'm like what am I supposed to focus on? The best work is going to come from where my inspiration is the most rich. And here's what's interesting is when it fades, it isn't a failure.

And I often take scripts I've written and I'm hyper-focused on something, it is my entire life, I'm so certain it is my entire future and that this is going to happen. It's inevitable. And whether I finish the thing or usually it's like when I'm 5% away from actually finally finishing a thing — and it's not even the whole thing, it's the first draft of a thing. Forget the 20 more drafts or 100 more drafts that it's going to take. I lose all will to even look at it again, okay?

Cate: Yes.

Adam: And there's a shame monster that pops up and shame monster's very real because that can really get in your way and mess your life up. But the reality is it is okay to put it in the cheese cave. It needs to age. You did everything you could do with magic in that moment and it's going to come back.

And what's so amazing — and you have to live long enough to have this experience and have this magic work on you — which is when you least expect it or when and in those free-associating moments or in the shower, on long walks, you make a connection to something you learned or something you wrote. It may be the only thing that survives from that draft but you're like oh my god, I know what I can do with that. And if it took five more years, it would be okay. Permission.

The cheese actually needs to age. It goes in the caves. They have to pat it. It's a real thing. And it's not ready and we have to say to ourselves that's okay too. Now if you haven't finished anything and that's been your goal, that can really hurt, you know? You can sit here and feel like you've let yourself down or the people who came on that journey with you, gave you all that time and were like I'm going to handle things so you can work on this book that you've been talking about.

But I have enough confidence to know that it's not over. It's hard to connect that moment to the future moment where you're like oh my god, magic! Like, now I get to use that, all those years I spent — you know, it's like it comes back. This is your story and it's what makes you really unique. So we can't turn our back on these things either as much — we can put them away. We can put them out of sight and out of mind and that's okay. But they're going to come back.

Cate: I love that you've talked about finishing stuff. Because they did this really interesting research study on ADHD and creative thinking. And one of the things that they found over and over again was that we are really good at that differential pattern matching, right? That sort of galaxy brain whatever.

Adam: Problem solve, yeah. Beautiful mind shit.

Cate: But there is a very big difference between potential — being able to think the thoughts and make the weird connections — and then the output or the achievement, right, of finishing the actual thing. And so how do you decide what goes into the cheese cave?

Adam: That's a great question and it leads right to one of my favorite things, which is it tells us. So for a long time my ideas, I thought of ideas like oh, they're like children. You want to protect your idea. You want it to like really be appreciated and celebrated and all these things. But I don't think our ideas are children. I think they're seeds. And it takes some of the pressure and the self out of it because it's almost more like a discovery.

And the only place they don't grow is in your pocket is what I say. And you got to get them out. And some of them won't grow. And I think that's a really powerful thing for me because I'm like oh, my job isn't to protect it till nature is going to take its course with even our ideas. They don't really even belong to us. We become the steward of these ideas. So putting something in the cheese cave is as simple, to answer one question then the other, is as simple as I'm not feeling it anymore. As heartbreaking, but only if we let it.

And also I keep a rotisserie — rotisserie? I keep a Lazy Susan — I'm going to try and find a better metaphor for this. It's more like chess, where it's like I'll do five games, like Bobby Fischer. I can say I like to have a lot of things. If I'm just working on one thing, honestly, I just probably will get really bored with it.

And what I usually do now is I'll go over to the other thing that was so exciting. And it's almost like a lot of little cheese caves. We're going to stop talking about cheese. A lot of cheese caves! That's a way to sort of keep it fresh. It's like oh, I'm ignoring my work by doing this other thing. Now this is getting built up and it was like and this thing is aging. And then you can go right back to it.

(18:15) Finding support through accountability partners and leaning into personal strengths.

Cate: Your relationship to creativity, I think, is very singular in terms of just how much ownership you have over the creativity in your life. And I know that a lot of people with ADHD often feel like the executive functioning parts of it — the over-committing, the task prioritization — those can sometimes get in the way. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you work with your ADHD to develop a healthy relationship around creativity and how it shows up in your life.

Adam: I mean, first of all, there's no point where I've ever felt like I have it figured out or I'm not at the very beginning, which is I think hard to hear because I think little me would be so impressed by some of the things that I've done. But I got to say every day, even now in my new old age, I feel like a baby. I feel like it's all still out in front of me.

I kind of think even really successful people in every area also have that inside of them. We're pushing ourselves to keep it novel so we stay excited. But I think forgiving ourselves for that, giving ourselves permission to lose steam, reboot, get excited about something else — this takes a lot of the friction.

And then we're generally — and I'm speaking for myself obviously, but I think this works — creating more. Now, we may not be finishing all the things we want. And this is I think a good bridge into just because we can see it in our head doesn't mean that it's entirely up to us. And I think we often feel that way.

So I think the other huge thing that we haven't talked about is where do you feel supported? Who do you feel supported with? Forget wanting to do everything. What are your strengths? Like your actual strengths. Get into those things.

What are your actual weaknesses? And we don't necessarily have to be better at the things we're not good at. We might just want to be like I'm really good at this and this. I'm not so good at this and this. And you go and you find your people and you're like oh, I have a band. I have a tribe.

And those people change too. Every idea, every project, even if it's just little life stuff, is like oh, who's my best accountability partner in this? Who's my buddy who's going to love this the way I do but add value and do the thing I can't or keep me online? And I think that's the secret to that.

Cate: I want to talk more about strengths. Because I feel like so often ADHD gets this constant negativity around like we can't do it and we can't do it and we can't do it. But I also feel like there are a lot of places in my life where because of the way that my brain is built and because of the way that I think, I excel and I do really, really well in some of those places. Can you speak a little bit to that and how your strengths have really allowed you to create this relationship and build this life that you are currently existing in?

Adam: There are very few environments where the way I think and work work. And I had to learn the hard way that certain structures, certain jobs, even certain relationships, best of intentions, can completely fall apart. I'm an insufferable showoff. So it's true! So if I see an opportunity within one of my strengths — I can't do anything but the things that I know how to do — I'm like I can do that.

So we obviously get a lot out of the curtain call so to speak. It was like you've presented whatever thing and everyone's like holy crap, that was amazing. I can't believe you did that. Well, that's motivation for me for next time. That's the fuel in the tank.

And I think the more we do that, the more we can trick ourselves. I have a very quick draining social battery in almost any scenario, except on set where I really — where I belong. And that's because I can control all these different elements. Knowing how I operate best is the only way I've been able to have any amount of victories. And again, in between if not long runs of failure.

No one else can take responsibility for that. I've had to learn in just the last few years how to take a lot more accountability for my own frustration, especially when it's projected outward. That's no one else's job! And I have to still daily remind myself and maybe not well, but like oh, I have to take responsibility.

I have to — overcommunication — unfortunately overcommunication when it's applied correctly can be annoying, but for my work, it's definitely a gift. Because now everyone's charging up the same mountain. And I might end up in situations where try hard as I might and wanting to impress people is great and goes a long way, but it is no substitute for telling people how I work best and then showing them.

Cate: This is going to sound like a digression but it's not. So Understood did this really interesting study about people in creative fields. And one of the things that they found was one out of two people — which I think scientifically is half but don't quote me on that —

Adam: That's 50%.

Cate: I feel like identify as neurodivergent. But 90% of those people find that a lot of times the field is inaccessible because of exactly what you're talking about, right? And so I also — I get itchy sometimes because we also sit here kind of from a position of privilege, right?

Like you happen to be an Emmy Award-winning writer and director, I'm a full-time content creator, podcaster, writer also. And so we have the luxury of fitting creativity into a lot of our lives. So for our dear listeners who maybe don't feel like they have that much room, can you talk briefly about fitting creativity into your life no matter what?

Adam: The creative has become work, but the greater joy for me, and I think maybe everybody can take this with them, is in finding little ways to see ourselves and to bring ourselves joy. I think every area of our lives is a chance to do that. And I think it takes a little bit of time in the gym of your soul to get to the point where you feel comfortable enough to do that on the regular.

And I don't think you have to be talented, I don't think you have to be a particularly artistic person to find the joy in the little things and to say yes to yourself. And you can model that in your own life on a daily where you're like I have this stupid idea for how we might reorganize the bookshelf.

And you may regret it, but starting is actually the harder part. The doing it is actually fun and who cares if it worked. And I think that's the sort of pattern you want to follow again and again to feel like wait, I'm closer to living the life that I wanted to live in the best of scenarios. And I don't think it ever gets easy. I say all this from that privilege but it's just one more overshare to say like it's so much easier to talk about these things and to see it clearly, but I really believe in it and I've seen it. I feel it. So when all that's working I'm like holy shit, I'm doing it.

(24:15) Late ADHD diagnosis and the difference between creation and worthiness.

Cate: What is one piece of advice that you wish that you had when you were starting your journey in terms of building your relationship to creativity with ADHD?

Adam: I didn't know I had ADHD until I was 45 thanks to you, but we won't go into that right now. It's your fault. I could cry. There's so much that I didn't know and I was really hard on myself. So if you take one thing away from all of this is that you just don't need to be. I'm still growing through that and processing what little Adam didn't know. We don't have time for that.

But if we just went into the kernel of it, it would actually be like you don't have to be anything. I learned early on that performing — and not just like acting, but performatively living, masking — I didn't know what that was until recently. That was the way I could accept love, that's the way I could succeed, that's the way I was so safe and I was okay. Oh, I'm being appreciated. But that's not really seeing ourselves clearly.

And I'm now working against that, but I had all the success because of that. So I have to both say thank you to my little self for not knowing and chasing that so hard because it delivered me to this moment. And I have to also be okay with some of that urgency and that performativeness leaving and being okay with what if I don't? I am not what I create. I am not worthy because of what I make. I'm worthy because of who I am and how I see the world and I don't even have to share that. If I share it, that's a gift maybe to other people, but to myself. And I think that's a big growth moment and I'm still trying to live that.

Cate: That's a crush of an ending question. You nailed that. Thank you.

Adam: Oh good. Let's do it again.

Cate: Thank you for listening. Anything mentioned in the episode will be linked in the show notes with more resources. Have a question, comment, burning story you'd like to share? Email us at sorryimissedthis@understood.org. This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a non-profit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia.

If you want to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give. "Sorry I Missed This" is produced by Jessamine Molli and edited by Jessie DiMartino. Video is produced by Calvin Knie. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright.

Production support provided by Andrew Rector. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Jordan Davidson. And I'm your host, Cate Osborn. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you again soon.