Too much or not enough: ADHD sensory challenges and sex

If sex sometimes feels confusing, overstimulating, or just... a lot, you’re not alone. ADHD and sensory issues can show up during sex and in our physical relationships. 

This week, psychologist Dr. Lyne Piché joins us to discuss how ADHD and sensory challenges can shape our sex lives, and how to talk about it. From touch sensitivity to struggling to focus, we dive into why things might feel like “too much” one minute and “not enough” the next—and how to figure it all out.

We love hearing from our listeners! Email us at sorryimissedthis@understood.org.

• Dr. Piché’s website, www.ADHDsex.com

• Dr. Piché’s ADHD and Sex workbook

• An earlier Sorry, I Missed This episode: ADHD, sensory systems, and communication

(2:07) What is a sensory issue? 

(05:16) How do we build awareness and language about our sensory issues in the bedroom? 

(09:45) How do we tell the difference between sensory overload and just not being in the mood for sex? 

(12:15) The importance of trust in your partner, and not “enduring” something just for someone else

(15:22) How kink can help with sensory issues in sex

(16:42) Letting go of the shame over not liking the things that you’re “supposed” to like

(19:07) How can we talk to our partners about our sensory needs if we’re scared of hurting their feelings or disappointing them?

(22:47) Building “yes” spaces and talking to our partners about our sexy sensory dos and don’ts—without feeling unsexy

(27:44) Trying things out more than once to determine whether it’s a sensory issue or a preference

Cate: Hi everybody, and welcome back to "Sorry, I Missed This," the show where we talk about all things ADHD and its impact on intimacy, relationships, and communication. And oh boy, are we talking about intimacy and communication today with our guest, Dr. Lyne Piché. Dr. Lyne Piché is a psychologist and sex therapist working in Canada who is the author of "ADHD and Sex: A workbook for exploring sexuality," and it is one of the best pieces of writing that exists on the topic. And in particular, one of the reasons why I really wanted to have Dr. Lyne on the show today is because in that workbook, she specifically has a chapter about sensory issues.

Now I don't know about you, dear listener, but when I was sort of coming into my own sexually and discovering my likes and dislikes, I realized that I had some dislikes that weren't maybe things that I had heard about. Like for example, I'm not a big fan of kissing, and in a culture where kissing is considered one of the most romantic things that you could possibly do, it was difficult for me to realize that my relationship to sex and intimacy was also directly related to sensory issues. And so Dr. Lyne and I are gonna have an amazing conversation about all this and more. So, I'm really excited to welcome you to this episode and without further ado, let's start the show.

Welcome to the show, Lyne.

Lyne: Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here.

Cate: Not only am I excited, but I gotta tell you, my community is really excited when I told them that we were doing a show on sensory issues and sex. I got so many wonderful questions and so much wonderful feedback.

Lyne: Yay, I wore my like very soft cat-like vest so that we could really like get into the topic.

Cate: It's really funny that you said that because I was also getting dressed this morning, and I was like, what am I going to wear that's like sensory friendly? I had that actual impulse as well, so I love that for us.

I kind of want to start with the basics. Can you kind of explain to us what is sensory processing? How does it relate to neurodivergence, especially in the context of intimacy and sexuality?

Lyne: We often think about sensory issues coming from people who are more on the autistic aspie side of the neurodivergent community. And what research, you know, is starting to demonstrate, and of course, clinically, people have said for years, is you can be on the other side with more of that ADHD presentation and have sensory issues. And sensory issues is the ick factor, right? So, it's a physical reaction. It's not rational. So, it's not something where you're like, "Well, I'm thinking this through and I don't think I like mushrooms." No, it really is like you try to smell the mushroom and look at the mushroom, you try to taste the mushroom and...That is a sensory issue.

And so, sensory issues involve our nervous system. And because it's a physical reaction, it's something that you're doing on purpose, right? So, I'm quite a bit older in the day. It was like, "Well, you just gotta eat your vegetables. You gotta eat the mushroom. You just gotta do it." And there wasn't a lot of recognition that this thing that was happening for people wasn't a choice, wasn't being fussy, this idea of being picky, you know? It really was more about how your body is reacting to certain sensations. And so, when you think about sex and sensations, sex is all about sensations.

And this, I think, is the piece where the sex and the sensory come together. We're so, not used to talking about this that many, many people don't even recognize that that's what's going on, right? So, they'll come in and they'll say, "You know, I don't know, I don't like sex. It's not comfortable to me, I just, I'm staying away from it." And then when you try to break it down, there's no real words cognitively. But when you start bringing the sensations into it and you say, "OK, you know, I just want you to sit quietly with your body. We can all do this. Just take a minute to breathe and then notice how touch feels, right? Does this feel like ants crawling up your spine?"

This is supposed to feel nice. For many people in the neurodivergent community, it feels gross. But you know what if feels so much better to your sensory system. And then how do we communicate that? Both for ourselves and being OK with it and also to a partner so that they can understand what your system needs. So, when I think about sensory issues and what it's all about, I really think about these like reflexes that you're not controlling. It's not your fault, it's just this thing. And if we can start identifying when it's happening for you and the relationship to that in your sexuality, then it can give you those pathways to creatively find a way out of this particular conundrum.

Cate: What happens when someone wants to be intimate, right? There's a desire there to have that connection, to have the intimacy with a partner, but the sensory experience of it, the taste, the textures, the sounds, all of that, gets in the way of enjoying it. What does that look like?

Lyne: I'm going to back up a little bit and go, yes, part of the problem is we don't have language around this. We don't talk about it, and so people don't even think that that might be a thing, right?

Cate: That's such a problem that I have in the work that I do. Like I'm working on my second book about ADHD and sex now But like there aren't words, like it's difficult to go and have conversations. You know, like the joke that I always say, is like I don't like kissing. I think kissing is gross It is like a weird sensory experience for me, but we equate kissing like is the most romantic thing, it is the more romantic way of being. And so, when you go and you're like, "Hey, I'm struggling with this thing." And then you're, like, but all you have is like, "It's weird. It's gross. It gives me the ick," Like there aren't good words to explain, like how it feels in your body. And that's such, I'm sorry, I got excited. I don't even know where I was going with that.

Lyne: No, no, but this is good. OK, so I have a question for you, when you are kissing, is there a timing factor? So, for example, if somebody does something else to you sexually that you really like, right? And now you're super duper duper aroused. If you go back to kissing, at that point in the proceedings, is it a little easier for you?

Cate: Yes.

Lyne: Bingo. And this is just my clinical opinion. This is like, we don't have research about this, people; it's just what I'm thinking. But what I've noticed is when sexual intensity and arousal goes up, some of these sensory issues that are more problematic initially can become less. Sometimes it's not the case at all, but you can play around with that. And so once you have the words to know, "OK, kissing is ick," then you can pay around with the timing and go "Well, if I do it later, is it OK?" And maybe then for partners, they're like, "Sure, we don't have to start there." And so, these compromises and these workarounds are such a big piece of this.

I think sitting with your body and your nervous system and thinking about how things feel and knowing that sex and sensory go together, I think we'll start helping people create the words that will then allow for that movement, right? One of the things that I love about the neurodivergent community is once you identify the problem, we are all so creative. Finding solutions is not typically the hard part.

Cate: Sex is infinitely customizable, right?

Lyne: Yes.

Cate: Intimacy is infinitely customizable. And so, I think like that's such a key component and part of it for me, and the work that I do is that idea of giving people permission, right? It is, it's OK if you need to sit down and work through that. Dear listener, this might be a really good time to refer you to our sensory systems and communication episode, where we break down a lot of the sensory systems and how to open up conversations about that. So, if you're a little bit unsure about how to start that process, go check out that episode.

Lyne: That's very cool. I did want to specify that if you've labeled something as sensory and you've communicated about it with a partner, you can simply drop it. There is no requirement that you have to work through it or find a way... Like that's OK. If you don't like mushrooms, you don't like mushrooms, and it's OK to like go through your life and not eat mushrooms. And this really I think is a big piece, Cate, of what you're talking about around how do we just be OK with these parts of our sexuality?

The reason that for me this business about intensity and timing matters is it just gives you a little bit more flexibility of what you might wanna do with the problem, but it doesn't require you to do that. And this I think, is that joy of creating that customizable sexual playbook.

Cate: I feel like I say this every single episode, but every single episode, I'm surprised. Because like the through line of this podcast is really just about being aware of your needs, being aware of your own wants, but then being able to say "This is what I need." Like it's such a beautiful moment of self-advocacy and claiming your pleasure. And I just think that's like a powerful thing.

How can we tell the difference between sensory overload during intimacy and just not being in the mood? What are some signs to look for in either direction of that spectrum?

Lyne: One really is about overwhelm, and the other one is about not transitioning into sex. And so, I talk a lot about the transitions in and out of sex, because those typically are difficult for ADHDers. This idea of, you know, right now I'm hyperfocused on something else, versus, yes, you now, I can be in that zone, however, my body is going, eek, right? Just that little cat, eek. That for me is that overwhelm. It's that sensory, "OK, I've got too much going on right now."

The other thing I have developed is the sexy communication scale. And I always laugh because I initially called it the sexy, sexy communication scale, because I think that that works. So, in my head, it's like the sexy sexy communication scale.

Cate: And so, it shall be.

Lyne: And so it shall be. But it's a numbered scale to help you some of that question out, right? So, are you a zero where you're like, "You know, there's absolutely no way I would be interested in sex right now." Are you a five where it's like, "Kinda maybe, kinda, sorta." Or is it, are you feeling like a 10, you're really aroused, you know it, you feel it. For many people, and you know, Emily Nagoski has been wonderful for this, it's responsivity. And so, you might not know where you are on the scale until you get started. Once you get started, and if your body is going "ehh," there's no input right now. That's one way of doing it.

The other thing I think, you know, is playing with the sensory. What happens if I have a very soft, maybe I have a blindfold, maybe I have earplugs on and somebody is just touching me softly? And is my body reacting well to that? If I add a sensory experience, like I take the blindfold off, does that feel like too much? But if I had the blindfold on or the little eye mask, am I feeling OK in my body? So, you can play around with the different sensory systems, and you can limit one or two of the sensory things and then see how you feel about it. That would give you a good sense of whether it's overwhelm or if it just is there's too much input right now, but my body is really into this.

Cate: Again, dear listeners, this is so funny. I feel like Charlie in "It's Always Sunny," just everything's all connected. Our episode with Betty Martin, where we talk about the Wheel of Consent and we talk like the hand exercise and stuff, that's a really great exercise to utilize, especially if you're like, "I'm not sure if I like this. I'm not sure I don't," but really getting into your body and sitting there and saying, "Do I like his touch? Do I like this other type of touch?" And getting curious. Getting curious about those different things and what do you like and what you do not like. Very useful, so you might wanna go check that one out too.

Lyne: That sounds great. Trust, of course, is such a big piece of this.

Cate: Yeah.

Lyne: Exploring some of these elements has to be done with somebody that you really are comfortable with and you can trust and if you don't have that trust, then playing with some of the ideas it's not going to be necessarily a safe space.

Cate: Another thing that I think is really interesting, speaking of that, is that a lot of people will try and push through, right? They'll override their sensory discomfort. Betty Martin talks about enduring in the name of being a good partner. So, I mean, I think we know that that can backfire, but how can we approach it differently?

Lyne: No.

Cate: What do we do instead? Don't. No, just lay back and think of England. No.

Lyne: No. I think this is the real joy of connecting sensory issues with sexuality is that it makes it so perfectly obvious that just enduring is not the way to go when it comes to sexuality. I really want to come back to like the green pea on the plate. You just have to eat the pea. Sit there until you eat the pea. No.

Cate: Pow, right at that childhood trauma.

Lyne: We're not doing that, right?

Cate: Mine was a green bean, it wasn't peas, but that was...

Lyne: Green peas are gross, right?

Cate: They're disgusting.

Lyne: And so, allowing yourself to kind of have that visual and that parallel, I think can get you out of this idea that somehow you're not a good partner if you don't want to eat the green bean. Allowing yourself to say, "No, this is sensory. This is not comfortable for me." We're going to label it. We're gonna talk about it. If we can work around it, great. If we can't work about it, we drop it. That's it. And giving yourself that permission also allows so many other things to happen in the relationship where you can then start having those conversations of, well, if that doesn't work for you, then where are we at in this relationship? How do we compromise? What does that look like?

We're not talking about adjustments here. We're talking about ick, and I think that is such an important difference. I love this idea of being picky, right? Being picky means I could eat this, but I would prefer this other thing. That's conversation communication we adjust, right? Versus sensory, the ick, that is, this feels just amazing, and my nervous system calms down and I'm good, versus my nervous is like a frightened ca,t and all the hair is up, and my nervous system is not at all tolerating this. Very different experience.

Cate: A lot of the work that I do is about like kink and BDSM and how it sort of intersects with the neurodivergent community. But for some folks, it is like that preference is like, "OK, you know, I'll deal with both, but like, you, I'd rather chocolate ice cream than vanilla, you know." But for some, it's absolutely "Do not do that. If you do that, my headspace will be broken, I will be immediately out of the moment, and we're not coming back from that."

Lyne: I love this intersection with kink because when you think about the sensory issues in sex and this idea of preferring hard touch and intensity and all of these things, I do think that this is part of the way that people have learned to work with their nervous system.

Cate: Yeah.

Lyne: My big joke is always, you know, you want to know where your neurodivergent community is in any town, you just go to the local kink party and you're going to meet a ton of neurodivergent people.

Cate: It's funny because it's true.

Lyne: And this is kind of that joy of I think, in the kink community, having found a way through some of these sensory issues around sex without maybe even labeling it as such. And I'm just so excited that we can now talk about this, you know, kind of for people who aren't going to the parties and going, "Hey, you can bring this home too. You don't have to be in the kink BDSM world to start thinking about sensory issues and sex."

Cate: I want to talk a little bit about shame and guilt and how that can show up in our relationship to sex and intimacy. So, what do you say to someone who has that sense of embarrassment, or like, "Oh, I'm broken. And there's something inherently wrong with me" because they don't like the things that they're supposed to enjoy? How do we let go of that shame and say, "You know what, that's just what I'm about and that's OK?"

Lyne: So, the advantage I have as a psychologist and a sexual therapist is that I have had the privilege and the honor of hearing people's stories for 25 plus years, and what I can say very comfortably is there are so many people who have the same playbook that you do. There are so many people who are struggling with the same things that you. You just don't know it because maybe you're out there working in accounting or maybe you are out there working in construction. Maybe you're building furniture, and so you don't hear that every day.

But when people are saying to you, "Hey, this is enough of a thing that we've wrote chapters about this. We've wrote books about this, you know? We're doing a podcast about this!" it's not happening because there's only one person hearing this and going, "Oh, this applies to me, and it's only me, and I am very, very different. I think just that knowledge that, you know, Catie here has put this together, that there is a community of people who are interested, that the more you look at the comments and hear things and if you ask about it, you will be, I think, pleasantly surprised that you will hear a lot of people having some of these same experiences.

The guilt and the shame mean that people typically don't talk about it. You know, you're not going to go to a dinner party and go, "Hey, so how was your week?" And start with, "You know, I'm really kind of struggling with kissing right now. Kissing is not how I do things. So, now I'm trying to date and I'm trying to figure it out." I am looking forward to the day where that is going to be like normal, you know how was you week kind of answer.

Cate: Listen, you can come to my dinner parties because that's absolutely what we talk about. You're invited, you're invited.

Lyne: Oh, thank you. I would love that. But yeah, just knowing that you're just not the only one. And this idea of normal is really what I think we are battling on so many fronts right now.

Cate: Oh my gosh.

Lyne: That normal is just not a thing.

Cate: I hear so much from women who are dealing with that shame and embarrassment of like having the audacity to ask for what they want, oh my goodness. But the other thing that I hear is like, "Oh, well, my partner feels rejected. My partner feels like I'm telling him that, you know, he's a bad kisser or something like that." And so, as someone who directly works with clients, I'm wondering, how can people talk to their partners about their very real, very valid, very necessary sensory needs without making it about rejection?

Like, how do we push back against that narrative of sex is supposed to be this way? You start with kissing and then you move into this thing and then the other thing and then, you know, like, how do you push back without it feeling like rejection to a partner? Or is that a them problem? You can also just be honest. This is like a them problem the more I say the question.

Lyne: There's two answers to this, I think. And the first one is, is your partner neurodivergent? So, if you're triggering some rejection sensitivity stuff because your partner's neurodivergent and you know that about them, then I would have a different answer than if this is a partner who's not experiencing rejection sensitivity, but they just are very, very maybe controlling or specific about what they're expecting and this is what they want. And maybe there's more self-focus there, right?

So, if it's somebody's self-focused, then yeah, it's a them problem. But if this has to do with that RSD, then I think there is definitely a way of kind of labeling that and going, "Look, I realize that when you hear whatever, you actually hear I have failed. I'm not saying that you have failed, I just would like to communicate about our sex life. And how can we do that in a safe way?" And maybe that means going to couples counseling and having somebody there to navigate that conversation. It almost always means taking time to schedule a conversation, give somebody a heads up, talk about it in a place or a space that's very calm.

Oftentimes, conversations like this tend to go sideways when they're reactive. So, in the moment, you just go, "Oh, I just hated that. And then your partner goes, "oh. I didn't mean it. Yeah, this is a problem." And you know, and I think that maybe grabbing a book and reading a book together about how you can do this different or how we can explore things doing resources, working with a counselor, having that talk at the coffee shop, there's definitely ways to make it a better experience.

And I think if you've done all that, and you've really gone out your way to make it clear what you're saying and to try to share what you have to say in a way that is respectful and the person still is going, "Yeah but sex is ABCD and this is the only way I want to have sex and I don't actually care about your sensory issues," that's a different story. Now we are really are in the land of couples counseling, where it's like if you don't resolve the anger and you don't resolve the relationship difficulties, I don't think you're able to kind of really navigate these sexual things.

It's kind of like, you know, the base is "Do we have a good relationship and are we able to communicate, and do we respect and how are we doing the basic stuff?" These discussions around sex, in some ways, is kind of a top-tier conversation. If the base isn't there, then it really becomes very hard to get there in a way that you'd like to get there.

Cate: So, are there ways of preparing for intimacy, talking about intimacy, where we can really build a support structure like a yes space or a sensory checklist, a menu, that kind of stuff? And how do we keep those from feeling clinical and unsexy if we are utilizing them? Like, what do you mean you have a list?

Lyne: There are so many different ways to do this that can be fun. You know, if you have this space and you're able to create like a little sex nook.

Cate: A sex nook? You might've just changed my life. I want a sex nook. That's amazing.

Lyne: You can have a sex nook. You can like your sex toys on the wall, on a shelf. You can have that fun lighting. There's great little neon signs now that you can get and you can have all your like play toys set up. It can be very small. Like think of the size of a small closet or maybe a little bigger. Doesn't have to be a complicated nook, but a space where this is what you're there for. It can really help for transitions and allowing you to kind of get in that head space. But creating those spaces that allows for some of this to just be fun, right? So, you're right. You don't want to make it this clinical list. But maybe you have some candles that have batteries in them, so they're flameless candles.

And maybe you have a really nice smell or something that is a nice odor, or room spray that you can put in. You can have so much fun with this without it being, well, I have to have it this way, and then I can transition into sex. Making that a pleasure of getting prepared, making that part of your transition, no longer makes it a chore. Code words are so much fun for that. You can have the code word that is like, "OK, we're on." And I think if you're getting your sensory needs respected, then sex also is gonna be less anxiety-provoking, you're going to feel more comfortable, and then some of these things are just gonna happen in a bit more of a seamless way.

Cate: I had so much guilt and so much reservations about talking to my partners being like, hey, this isn't a thing that I really enjoy. And so, I started having a lot of anxiety about sex. I'm like, "Oh, God, they're going to want to do this thing and I'm not going to like it. I'm going to be lying there looking at the ceiling, and I'll just be waiting for it to be over. Oh, my God. Oh, my God." And the day that I finally was like, "Hey, maybe we could do something...." It was so freeing. It was a hard conversation. And we had to be like grown-ups and adults and talk about like our feelings and stuff.

But the sense of freedom and the sense of, "OK, I don't have to be worried about this thing. And I don't have to so very concerned that this thing that I don't like is just gonna get sprung on me." Like it was a really powerful, really freeing feeling.

Lyne: I love that you had the courage for that because this is exactly what we're talking about. And when people are making love to you, they are trying to provide pleasure. So, if you know that something is not going to give you pleasure, not talking about it almost seems mean.

Cate: Yeah, you're setting them up to fail in a way, you know.

Lyne: Yes. Exactly.

Cate: But I think one of the things that we tend to forget is that we only know what we know. We only know pleasure as we know it. And so, for me, I'm like, I know what I find pleasurable, but if I'm not having those conversations with my partner, if I am not checking in and saying, "Hey, is this thing that I assume you like actually something that you enjoy and is actually something that's pleasurable?" A lot of times, we find out that our partners are just kind of like enduring because they're like, "Oh, well, I thought you were into it." And it's like, "No, no no, I thought you were into it." That's funny to me how often that happens, and the people that I hear from is that, "I thought you liked it." "No, I thought you liked it."

Lyne: Well, and if we circle back to partners who are maybe a little bit more resistant to this, it really does come back to this piece of somebody is trying to provide pleasure. And when you're trying to do that, and you don't really know how, or you don't know what the alternatives are, that can feel really embarrassing, and it can feel shameful. When you're having these conversations, the more that you can bring in, "But here are other things that you can do," then you're able to offer something that they can take. And you're not just saying, "No, no no no," and that is really empowering for both.

Cate: It took me a really long time, especially, I think as a late diagnosed woman with ADHD who struggles with like people pleasing and rejection sensitivity, and all of that is that idea of being a people pleaser never actually helps the situation. It feels good. It feels like you can protect yourself and build up these walls and these barriers. But it's the moment where you actually say, "No, actually, I don't like that," it becomes that moment of, "OK, now I'm actually doing that for myself." And I think that's cool.

Lyne: Very, very cool. I was thinking about this idea of if it's sensory, it's going to be this kind of big physical reaction. You may not know until you've had two or three partners that you actually, it is sensory versus it is like a preference of a certain type or something that you prefer or dislike. So, it is something to keep in mind that if you have an experience once, you may need to kind of try it again for yourself to see how you're responding to it in a different setting or with a different partner. If they're doing things a little differently, maybe that works for you, versus that sensory of I know that my nervous system is reacting very, very strongly to this particular thing.

But here's the kicker: you're doing it for you. I want to find out what my nervous system likes or doesn't like around sex, versus doing it for a partner. "Well, I'm gonna keep giving this person a chance because I don't wanna hurt their feelings and I'm just gonna kind of go along for the show." Can you own the experience of inner knowledge? Because the more that you know about your sexuality and your body, the more you're bringing to the table, the more you can share it with somebody else. But if you don't know these things about yourself, then you're actually not bringing things to the table that can be shared with somebody. And this is where that idea of experimentation and figuring out your body and getting comfortable with your body becomes so important as a first step to sorting some of this out.

Cate: I love having this podcast. I'm just here like crying, I'm like yes, I am so lucky that I get to do this, oh my goodness. This has been so wonderful, thanks for being here.

Lyne: You're more than welcome.

Cate: Thank you for listening. Anything mentioned in the episode will be linked in the show notes with more resources. Have a question, comment, burning story you'd like to share? Email us at sorryimissthis@understood.org. This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

"Sorry, I Missed This" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli and Margie DeSantis. Samiah Adams is our supervising producer. Video is produced by Calvin Knie and edited by Jesse DeMartino. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. For Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. And I'm your host, Cate Osborn. I'll see you next time.