Can you really “hack” your dopamine?

It often seems that the more complex a subject is, the more people tend to oversimplify it.

If your social media feeds are anything like mine, that’s definitely the case. Especially when it comes to science. 

One of those often-oversimplified things is dopamine. This neurotransmitter, or brain chemical, has become a target for catchy headlines promising new ways to “hack your dopamine.” Seriously. If you don’t believe me, type in “dopamine hacks” on YouTube and enjoy the endless scroll.

This week on Hyperfocus, we take a deep dopamine dive with psychologist Dr. Ari Tuckman and sort out fact from fiction.

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at hyperfocus@understood.org.

• How I beat my social media habit (and how you can too) 

• Tips from an ADHD Coach: Is it love or is it dopamine? 

• Attention: How it’s different from working memory 

(3:01) What is dopamine?

(8:48) How do dopamine and ADHD relate?

(16:59) The truth behind dopamine “hacks”

(25:25) What a clinician wishes we knew

Ari: Anything about the brain, there is no simple answer. Now, like, the brain is unbelievably complicated. And as much as we say things like this part of the brain as involved in this, but also that part of their brain interacts with many, many other parts of the brain, right? So, like, everything is pretty complicated.

Rae: Sorry to state the wildly obvious, but brains are complicated. But as well, obvious as that might sound, you wouldn't know it from listening to most social media or even traditional media right now. Scientists have spent millions of hours and dollars trying to understand this endlessly complex organ that makes us who we are. And we know a lot, but that knowledge is often hard to explain and the answers it provides can be less than satisfying. All to say, we desperately want to understand our own brains, but actually understanding them isn't so easy.

So, I get why it's tempting to want to come up with ways of talking about the brain that are easier to understand. And I think at best, oversimplified science can make people interested in learning, but at worst, it can lead to serious misinformation and people making ill-advised decisions. I've noticed a lot of this simple science comes up around a brain chemical named dopamine. You've probably heard of dopamine. I've seen it called "the happiness chemical," and according to social media, everyone is either trying to boost it or hack it or detox from it or use it to change their life, or God knows what else. And if you have ADHD, this noise gets even louder.

You might've heard that people with ADHD don't have enough of this magic chemical in our brains. I certainly had. And despite myself, part of me began to wonder if some of the stuff I was seeing about dopamine might actually be helpful. But I wanted to talk it through with somebody who really knows. Because curiosity is good. But if we're seeking to understand our own brains, it seems, at least, pretty important to get the full picture. So, I called up a guy I knew who fit the bill, Dr. Ari Tuckman. Ari is a psychologist and ADHD specialist who has written four books about adult ADHD, and he has a natural gift for explaining complicated things in an accessible way. And he loves to set the record straight when it comes to pseudo or simplified science.

This week on "Hyperfocus," Dr. Ari Tuckman is here to help us sort out fact from fiction when it comes to dopamine.

All right, Tuckman, thank you so much for coming, man. I'm excited about this, because I have a lot of questions about this. I'm just gonna warn you right now.

Ari: Let's do it. Yeah, now I'm super psyched. I think this is such an important topic. It's so kind of, I don't know, misunderstood or misstated or whatever. And hopefully we can nerd out a little bit but not lose everybody. That's my goal.

Rae: Yes, ideal, right, when we're talking about something like this that's science-y, but also pop-science-y and maybe not as understood as it could be.

Ari: Yeah, in pseudoscience-y and junk science-y and yeah.

Rae: To that end, I wanna start with some like straight up facts. Let's start with the basic, basic: What is dopamine?

Ari: So, dopamine is one of many, many neurotransmitters. So, basically, like super simple neurobiology, you have all these neurons in your brain, these cells, right? And they send out connections to other cells, and they send signals around, right, and that's how our brain processes information. So, you've got what's called the presynaptic and the postsynaptic. So, the pre is the one that dumps out dopamine or norepinephrine or all sorts of other stuff, right? It sort of dumps these chemicals into the space and then the receiving neuron is the one that receptors on that side, they kind of click in like keys in a lock.

And sometimes it makes the receiving neuron more active, more likely to fire. Sometimes it makes it less likely to a fire. So, it kind of helps with modulating activity up or modulating the activity down. So, that's kind of what dopamine does.

Rae: So, just so I'm understanding from my non-neuroscience perspective, dopamine is a neurotransmitter, which is like a tiny chemical that works in your brain and is received or is uptake, is the word?

Ari: Yeah, it sends the signals.

Rae: It sends the signal. It's like a little messenger.

Ari: Yep.

Rae: Is that right? OK. And it kind of tells the brain what to do, like, feel happy, feel sad, be hungry. Run.

Ari: Yeah. Something coming at me is getting, it's coming closer, it's coming farther, or I'm standing straight, or wait a second, I'm leaning a little bit, right? It sends the signals, it does all the stuff our brain does.

Rae: OK, it's like the postal workers of our brain. They come and they tell us, like, here's your letter, this is what you need to do.

Ari: Yep.

Rae: It's very good. For people who, unlike me, my ADHD self actually open their mail, which I could be better about.

Ari: Right, you've heard this is a thing that happens.

Rae: Yes, I'm aware that people open their mail, but I'm not.

Ari: Right.

Rae: So, dopamine specifically, what does it affect? What does it do in the brain? And I want to start with the brain of everybody, right? And then I want ask you more about an ADHD brain.

Ari: Yeah, I mean, dopamine is used in a bunch of different parts of the brain. And depending on what part of the brand we're talking about, it's going to have different effects, right? So, obviously we know ADHD is involved or that dopamine is related to ADHD, right? Because of the parts of brain that are affected by ADHD. But dopamine is also involved in things like Parkinson's, restless leg syndrome, schizophrenia. I mean, it's different parts of the brain. So, even though it's still dopamine, it's not the same effect.

Rae: Is it also involved in like, like when I hear about dopamine, and this is kind of why I wanted to talk to you because what I've picked up from like what I see and hear kind of like in the social media ecosystem for lack of a better term, is you hear reward pathway, happiness chemical, it picks you up, it's like the thing, you don't have enough of it and then you're really sad. So, I'm kind of getting a sense like, you know, beyond the disorders that it can impact, like what does it actually do in your brain?

Ari: Yeah, and this is a really, really common misconception that dopamine is like the feel good chemical or something. And like in some specific parts of the brain, maybe it is related to feeling good, but it's also involved in lots of other things. So, like feeling good has nothing to do with Parkinson's and Parkinson's medication doesn't give you a buzz, right? Like it's not cocaine and in the same way, Adderall and other ADHD meds are not cocaine either, right? So, like it's sort of an oversimplification and depending on what we're talking about, it's just kind of downright inaccurate, you know, to say that it's as simple as like the feel-good chemical.

Rae: OK, so in some places it can have that effect, but in general, what are like the basic things on a day-to-day healthy functioning brain that dopamine would affect?

Ari: Yeah, so it, I mean, it does affect things like regulation of attention and using our executive functions. So, this is the ADHD kind of stuff.

Rae: Ah! I'm getting that now.

Ari: Yep. But also, it's related to sort of how our brain directs our body to move, right? So, if you think about, like, Parkinson's is a movement disorder. Restless leg syndrome is a moving disorder. So, it's also involved in things like that. And just in general, right, if we talk about schizophrenia, just sort of like the regulation of thought more broadly, right? So, dopamine does a bunch of different things in our brains every moment of the day.

Rae: So, it's no simple answer, right? It sounds like. I'm like, give me like the five top things that dopamine does and what you're saying as a scientist is "That's not how it works."

Ari: Anything about the brain, there is no simple answer. You know, like, the brain is unbelievably complicated and as much as we say things like, "This part of the brain isn't involved in this," but also that part of brain interacts with many, many other parts of the brains, right? So, like, everything is pretty complicated and when it boils down to a social media post, obviously you don't have, you know, you don' have a 97 page social media post talking about dopamine and how it in some ways is related to helping you feel good or something.

Rae: Yes. Well, so to the ADHD piece, because we know maybe because I'm heavily targeted for ADHD related social media, unsurprisingly, I see a ton of stuff about, you know, ADHD people don't have enough dopamine and we seek dopamine and all these kind of things. And what does dopamine, what is its actual relationship to ADHD? Like, what does that look like? And if you, if you're going to say this is not like a quick fix answer, that's also fine. I genuinely want to understand.

Ari: Yeah. I mean, so the thing about people with ADHD don't have enough dopamine is again, it's kind of oversimplified. I don't want to sound like kind of a jerk for this whole podcast, but, but it's, you know, the more kind of accurate way of putting it is, you know, prefrontal cortex, which is a part of your brain behind your forehead. It's a part of the brain involved in regulating attention and the executive functions, um, studies of of groups of people, on average, show that folks with ADHD have less dopamine activity in that part of the brain.

Rae: OK.

Ari: Right? Which again, if you take 100 people with ADHD and 100 without and you average them out, you can find a difference. So, things like medication that is helpful for ADHD, then what it does is it changes is how dopamine is used. It makes more dopamine available, so that that part of the brain works a little bit more effectively.

Rae: Got it. And can I ask a hyper-specific question, which is you said it affects our movement, our sense of movement. I mean, right now I am squishing a fidget toy as we talk. If I was not squishing this fidgetoy, I would have a much harder time paying attention to what you're saying. Not because it's not interesting, but because that's not how my brain works. Is that a dopamine reaction? Is that something to do with that?

Ari: It is, although not in this sort of Parkinson's like coordinating movement. Like as I walk across the room and reach for something, some muscles turn on and others release, and you know, like, so it's not that like basics of movement. It's really more about kind of dopamine as brake fluid.

Rae: OK.

Ari: The parts of the brain related to ADHD that use dopamine, it's more about holding back, right? So, ideally, and, you know, if you're sitting there and you didn't have a fidget to squeeze on, there'd be a little part of your brain that would sort of put on the brakes and say like, "Uh, don't move. You're fine," right? But that part is not working as well as it might need to. So, you have this kind of restless energy and using your fidget kind of uses up the energy, so to speak, right? It directs it somewhere so you can keep the rest of your attention on what we're talking about.

Rae: OK, I think I understand. I feel like I can…

Ari: Let me give another example to clarify, right? So, because it's actually not that complicated.

Rae: Says you.

Ari: Right. Well, it's not so complicated. I just said the basics of the theory. So.

Rae: OK.

Ari: If you're sitting and working on your computer, right, you're banging through emails or something, and you hear something over there, right? Maybe it's your cat knocking something over. Maybe it's your husband coming in. Maybe it is your kid asking you for something, right? Like your ears work and it sends a signal to your attention to say, "Um, do I care about this or do I not care about that?" Right? And depending upon, the answer might be, "Oh my God, I really care about this" or it might be like, "Whatever. It doesn't matter. Distraction. Let it go," right? And this is like, bam, the flash of a moment that our brain does this every single moment of the day.

Rae: Yes.

Ari: Right? And it's like that is what good attention regulation is. Do I stick on what I'm doing? or do I shift to something else? Right? So, when we get distracted, it's that our attention shifts when it should have stuck.

Rae: I got it.

Ari: But there's also the other side, which is the hyperfocus of sticking when you should have shifted. As in, "Oh my God, what time is it? I should have left 20 minutes ago." Right?

Rae: Yes, that is very, very familiar to me. Not so much the "I will ignore that noise, it's fine" part, but the rest of it.

Ari: Right. So, like, so that's what our attention does at every single moment. And mostly what our attention does is say, nah, don't care. Right?

Rae: No, that's true for me.

Ari: Ideally, ideally, right? In the example I always give is, what do your feet feel like? Now you know, in this moment, you know what your feet feel like, oh, my, I can feel the pressure of my feet on the floor. I feel my socks around my ankles, or the shoe is a little bit loose or tight. In this moment, you know what your feet feel like because somehow it's become interesting. But before I ask the question, your attention probably said, "I don't care, it doesn't matter, whatever," right? And you ignored your feet, so you could put your attention hopefully on what we're about.

Now, if you're walking across the room and you step on a LEGO, you're going to notice it. If you're walking on uneven ground, you're gonna pay attention to your feet so you don't fall in your face, right? But most of the time, what your feet feel like is a thing that your attention says, whatever, right? It puts on the brakes and says, "I don't want that. Don't let it in." And that that's the job of our attention is to figure out what to pay attention to.

If you have ADHD, it's harder to sort of jam on the brakes and say, no, not that, right? And this is why when you add in the medication that works for ADHD, like the stimulants, it's kind of like brake fluid. It gives you a little bit better ability to sort in this almost really kind of unconscious flash of a moment kind of a way to just say, "Nah, not that. This is what I'm doing.

Rae: So, does the ADHD medication work in part by increasing dopamine in your brain? Because that's the brake fluid for your impulsivity or your dysregulated attention?

Ari: Yeah, I mean, more specific, it increases the amount of dopamine in these parts of the brain that we're talking about, not in the parts of a brain related to movement. So, like you can't swap out Parkinson's meds and ADHD stimulants, like they don't work in the same parts of their brain. So, but yeah, like that is what the stimulants do is they increase activity in this specific part of the brain.

Rae: So, it's targeted stuff that, for example, the prefrontal cortex?

Ari: Yep.

Rae: It'll go in there and help the dopamine that I don't have because of the way that my brain works be a little bit stronger, work a little bit better. Is that right?

Ari: Yeah, what it does is it keeps the dopamine there. It makes the signal louder. It's like turning up the volume from the first neuron, from the sending neuron to the receiving neuron, so.

Rae: Oh, I like that.

Ari: Yeah, so like the dopamine gets dumped out, but then it also gets sucked back in, right? Or it gets broken down. So, because what you want a good signal is signal, pause, signal. It's sort of like if you're in a really loud restaurant and everything blends in and it's all just this like murmur, right? That's not what we want. What you want is the person sitting in front of you that you can hear them clearly as they speak one word and then another and then and another and another. Right?

Rae: I got it.

Ari: So, it's that up and of volume and tone and whatever, right?

Rae: It helps your neurons keep recognizing it, keep understanding what they're being told and do what they need to do?

Ari: Yep, exactly. Exactly.

Rae: Got it.

Ari: It's sort of like straining to hear the person across the table when you're in a loud restaurant, because everybody is loud. So you don't hear anything, right? So, that's what we don't want, but by making the person sitting in front of you louder compared to the noise in the background, you hear that person better.

Rae: OK.

Ari: So, the ADHD medication helps those signals pass through a little bit more effectively.

Rae: So, here's something I hear again and again and again from people. They see an ad for something that looks fun or interesting or pretty on social media, and they click. And then they scroll more and they click again and they scroll more and click again. And I've heard this over and over explained as something that gives you a dopamine hit. And this isn't by accident and it's not a lack of willpower. These platforms are designed to be addictive. They want you to keep clicking. They want to keep scrolling. It's how they make their money. But I'd heard many people talk about this pull as a dopamine hit, discussing that clicky bathing suit or a feed full of pretty yet unaffordable hotels as if it had the same effect as a hit of cocaine.

And look, I love a picture of a cat sleeping in a Tupperware that's too small for it as much as the next girl, but it did seem like it had to be a little bit more complicated than that. So, I asked Ari, can you really hack your dopamine? And what he said was basically no. That, of course, our brains want to do things that are fun first, more, and basically always. And yes, dopamine does play a role in that, but it's less about hacking our brains or getting hit, and more about the fact that apps like Instagram are built to be a lot more fun than folding your laundry.

Ari: I think the more accurate way of saying it is that there are really fun, exciting things in the world and there are boring things that are good to do because they're good for you later.

Rae: OK.

Ari: Right? Eating vegetables is good for your later. Sorting receipts for taxes is good for you later. Doing your homework, exercising, getting up on time, right? All the like quote responsible things, they're all good for you later. The challenge is we need to not do the fun, exciting things right now so we can do the boring things that are better for us later, right? That's like the challenge of, of all people, right?

Rae: Of adulthood.

Rae: It's sort of...Yeah. It's like, do I maximize the present moment and click on the Instagram post about bathing suits, or do I do the thing that's going to be better for me later, which is finish that thing for work so my boss isn't mad at me or so at the end of the day, I'm not like, "Oh crap, I still didn't get that done"? Right? So, and you know, obviously none of us are robots and we all have our moments and blah, blah, but folks with ADHD have more of those moments, right? It's harder to push away the thing that's exciting in the moment and say, "No, not that. I mean, it's definitely better. Let's all be honest. But like, nope, that's not what I'm doing." You know, getting an amount of vegetables before I eat my dessert, right?

And that It's harder to push that away, like the temptation of the present sort of pulls harder on your attention and it's harder to resist and it takes more willpower. Someone who doesn't have ADHD just has a little, inherently, a little bit easier time just being like, "Not that. I won't do that."

Rae: Is that because we have reduced dopamine in the part of our brain that regulates attention?

Ari: Yeah, yeah, it's that you're sort of, you're, I kind of see your attention gets hijacked more easily. You know what's going on around you has, it pulls harder on you.

Rae: Less dopamine break fluid.

Ari: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Rae: So, does that mean that these kind of things are not as wildly inaccurate as I briefly thought they were, but that it's really just more complicated than that? Like, yeah, you're going to have an easier time focusing on something that's fun and easy to focus on, but not because that's boosting your dopamine and like giving you like a fireworks show in your mind or whatever people say. But more because it's just easier to focus on something that feels good now, and so it requires less of the part of our brains that have a hard time doing that.

Ari: Yeah. Yeah, it's more sort of like when people talk about like, "Oh, I put on my favorite song, it gives me a boost of dopamine," they're talking less about ADHD and more as if they're taking a tiny hit of cocaine, right? That it gives that kind of euphoric or at least positive feeling, right? But that is a different part of the brain. That's like the nucleus accumbens or whatever, like, that is not the part of their brain involved in ADHD. But it's just harder to resist the pull of those tempting distractions. And it takes more force of will to like muster the motivation to do the boring thing, to kind of psych yourself up for it.

Rae: OK, so it's subtler. It's less like this is the thing you're seeking and more like your brain is just predisposed to look for things that require less dopamine to be enjoyable. Like the attention, the focus piece, is just easier because it's fun or it's engaging or it tastes good or whatever.

Ari: Yeah, it's that it takes less willpower to resist the pull of that desirable thing.

Rae: OK.

Ari: And that you know, like by contrast, there are people who just have an easier time kind of slogging through boring things.

Rae: Yes, they're called superheroes, and I envy them.

As a clinician, as somebody who studied this, you look at the research, you're very enmeshed in what is the actual facts, what are the things you really wish people would actually find out about this stuff? What would be an actual helpful thing to know about your own brain, cut through the noise of the dopamine Instagram posts or whatever and go straight to the heart of it, which is what should we know? What is valuable?

Ari: Let me actually even take a step back behind that question, which is accurate, this is like kind of ridiculous that I need to say this, but like accurate information is just more helpful, right? Even if well-intentioned, inaccurate information is not helpful, right? Like I, somebody forwarded me this email about this guy selling this nutritional or whatever program. And one of the things he said was cold, after your shower, you take a cold shower and that he'll gradually increase the amount of cold as if he's like dialing in a dose or something.

And it's like the most ridiculous thing, like there's no, I mean, first of all, you're suffering enough in life. You don't need to add a cold shower to it, but it's, like, to promote things that are not helpful takes people away from doing the things that are helpful.

Rae: Yes.

Ari: Right? And like that is a cost to the individual in additional preventable suffering. So, like this idea of soft information, I mean, do whatever you want, but also let's be clear, doing things that are not likely to help makes your life harder. So, things like, oh, brown noise is going to like, boy, am I going to be able to focus, right? And you will for like an hour, right, because the novelty of it will be sort of interesting. But like, that's not going to cure your ADHD. It's not gonna solve all your problems in life.

So, I think for this, like, this is why podcasts like this and why the work that Understood does where everything is vetted and everything is reviewed. And like, This is why this is important or the work that CHADD or other organizations and other kind of more reputable content creators, right? It does matter because flashy posts are nice, but they don't help people, right? And the problem is putting up a post that says, I guess, try to get more sleep, right? That doesn't go viral. Nobody's clicking that post.

Rae: Yeah, here's a really boring piece of advice that will actually help but is hard to do.

Ari: Right.

Rae: No one's like "Can't wait!"

Ari: Yeah, nobody's forwarding this to all their friends, you know, and a lot of managing ADHD involves kind of managing the world around you, right? It's like, it's easier to be less distracted with fewer distractions. You know, some things like, I mean, it the things nobody wants to do, right? You know? Put your cell phone away, unsubscribe from things, turn off notifications, um, make lists, make set alarms, set reminders, you know. Slave yourself to your calendar, right? It's like all this stuff that...

Rae: The least sexy advice you could possibly give about something.

Ari: Exactly. Exactly.

Rae: So, in the world of dopamine, is there something that someone who has ADHD or another mental health or learning disorder that's affected or like, you know, sort of specified in the region of dopamine, like, is there any advice that you really wish people or just facts you wish people knew?

Ari: Yeah, actually, let me start with this, right? The fact is ADHD is caused mostly by genetics. It is absolutely a brain-based condition. It is not about parenting or lifestyle or environment, except in very specific, like lead exposure in utero and things like that. The medication for ADHD that we have, the stimulants, has decades upon decades of research showing it to be safe and effective. I mean, I can't even imagine like trillions, quadrillions, I don't know what, like how many prescriptions have been written over the course of 40 years on these things, right? Like it is 100% abundantly clear that medication treatment for ADHD is safe and affective and reduces, you know, for most people who use it, reduces some of the significant impacts of untreated ADHD.

And if you're gonna talk about the removing effective treatment, if you gonna make noise about the possible side effects that can come from a particular treatment, if you are gonna be fully honest, you need to also recognize what are the risks of non-treatment, right? And there's research that has come out and has been verified that shows significant reductions in estimated life expectancy. In other words, people with untreated ADHD live years less. Like this is a big, big deal, right? Greater risk of accidents, greater risk of obesity, greater risk in diabetes, greater risk of smoking, and other substance use. All of this has a massive impact on not just number of years that you're gonna live, but also the quality of your life. right? Are you active and effective and able to do the things that you want to do?

Obviously these are group averages. No one person is a group average, but like this is indeed important stuff, right? Like this is why you and I do what we do. This is why everybody else, you know, all our friends, like why they do what they do because this stuff really does matter. And to sort of casually throw these nonsense things out there, it hurts people. It is not just like stupid posts on Instagram. Like you are potentially affecting people's lives and that is a big deal.

Rae: That's well said and well received.

Ari: This is the part where you start yelling and breaking things.

Rae: Well, no, because that thing behind you is so pretty, don't worry. I really appreciate you coming on the show and being the truth teller that you always are. And every time I have a dopamine question or see an annoying post, I'm now just gonna send it to you. So, be ready.

Ari: It was, it would have been worth it. Like, I always like hanging out with you, so it'll be worth it

Rae: All right, man, this has been a pleasure.

"Hyperfocus" is made by me, Rae Jacobson and Cody Nelson. Our music comes from Blue Dot Sessions and Justin D. Wright mixes the show. Samiah Adams is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director, and Neil Drumming is our editorial director. If you have any questions for us or ideas for future episodes, write me an email or send a voice memo to hyperfocus@understood.org.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org Our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.