When teachers say your child is “too smart” for special ed services

Parent advocate Danielle Ward joins us to unpack what this response often means and how it might signal twice exceptionality, where giftedness masks real struggles. 

She shares practical strategies for moving forward when the system says “no,” even when your child clearly needs support.

We also break down what legally qualifies a student for an IEP, when a 504 plan might be a helpful tool, and how to push through to get your child the support they need.

• Read: The 13 disability categories under IDEA

• Listen: IEPs: The difference between IEPs and 504 plans

• Read: All about twice-exceptional students

• Book: Differently Wired Kids, by Debbie Reber (TILT Parenting)

• Resource: School Avoidance Alliance

(05:00) What is 2E (twice exceptionality)?

(09:20) Who is legally eligible for an IEP?

(13:04) How 504 plans can support your child

(18:47) Understanding academic vs. educational impact

We love hearing from our listeners! Email us at init@understood.org.

Gretchen Vierstra: Hello and welcome to "In It," a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently. Here, you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes, and yes, sometimes failures, from experts and from parents and caregivers like you. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org.

Rachel Bozek: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor, and mom who has definitely been in it.

Gretchen: Before we get started, we wanted to share some bittersweet news with you all. This podcast, which we've been so proud to make over the years, will sadly be coming to a close. We have loved sharing "In It" with you all, and we hope you'll keep in touch and check out some of the other podcasts Understood produces.

The good news is the full archive — six seasons — will still be here for you any time you want to go back to a favorite episode or discover one you might have missed.

Rachel: And you'll always be able to learn from Understood.org, which has lots of resources and shows you can continue to turn to for support. But right now, we have a great show for you.

Gretchen: Today, we're talking about what to do when you know your child is struggling in school, but what the school is telling you is, "Oh no, she's way too smart to be eligible for an IEP."

Rachel: With us to talk about this frustrating scenario and what you can do about it is Danielle Ward. Danielle Ward's been a parent advocate for her own kids for over a decade. And now she does it professionally. Her company, Encompass Parent Solutions, provides non-legal parent advocacy support and education council for families of kids with learning differences. We're delighted that she's here to speak with us today. Danielle, welcome to "In It."

Danielle Ward: Welcome. Thank you, ladies. It's so nice to see you again.

Gretchen: Yeah, we're so glad to have you. So, Danielle, we want to start by quickly sharing a story with you that one of our listeners, whom we'll call K, shared with us because I think it really captures the maddening logic a lot of parents and caregivers face around this.

So from when her son was in kindergarten through fourth grade, K could not get his school to evaluate him for an IEP because they said he was getting good scores in math and reading. Now this was despite the fact that he showed lots of signs of inattentiveness. One teacher even described him as sometimes being so deep in his own thoughts that he wasn't even aware of other people being in the room.

Rachel: Yeah, that hyperfocus, right?

Gretchen: Yeah. So according to them, with that, they took it as, well, these challenges are not having an educational impact. And that's the crux of the problem, right? Or one crux of the problem right there.

Rachel: Right.

Gretchen: Like, how can you say that his ADHD was not having an impact when, according to his teachers and what his parents saw at home, focus was so clearly hard for him? Danielle, does this whole scenario sound at all familiar to you?

Danielle: Yes, it's like a broken record, Gretchen. I'm not going to lie. So, yes, we get this a lot from districts. The difference between what they're seeing on the page versus what they're seeing in the classroom versus what parents are seeing at home. We have a lot of kids that mask all day trying to keep it together. And then when they get home, they become completely dysregulated. That's actually an issue that needs to be brought up with the school. And a lot of school teams don't know how to navigate these waters very well because they're basing it on a rigid definition.

Rachel: I think it also may be hard for some people to understand how a child could do well on standardized assessments and then still be in need of the kinds of supports that come with an IEP. Can you talk a little bit about what's going on there for some kids and what are those assessments maybe just failing to capture?

Danielle: They're failing to capture the functional and social-emotional needs of the child. You know, we all don't fit into a box. We all have unique ways that we approach learning. And for a lot of kids, particularly those that are twice-exceptional — so these are kids that might have a learning disability or a mental health condition, but also they take very good tests, right? They score well, they do well on the academics of school. But what's affecting their ability to learn is not academic, it's actually the functional and social-emotional needs.

And IDEA does define this — that's our Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. They do define these terms that you have to look at more than just academics when you're evaluating the child.

(05:00) What is 2E (twice exceptionality)?

Gretchen: You mentioned 2E.

Danielle: Yes.

Gretchen: Can you give us a clear definition of what 2E can mean in many ways and just kind of explain that to us?

Danielle: Sure. 2E, E is exceptional. So you might have a learning disability like dyslexia, but also be gifted. And do very well on the state testing, as well as you might be in honors classes, you might be in advanced placement classes. But also you have either a learning disability or an identified disability under IDEA, which would be, you know, a mental health condition, you might be hearing-impaired, whatnot. So you have to have both a disability that's identified as well as high academic progress and giftedness.

Gretchen: I could see how maybe 2E kids fall through the cracks sometimes.

Danielle: They do.

Gretchen: Yeah. So why, and then why is it important for them to not fall through the cracks?

Danielle: Well, it gets really complicated when they start matriculating from elementary school to middle school and high school, if you haven't addressed the foundational needs of the functional aspects of their ability to learn. Many kids start to have mental health conditions that really creep up. They start avoiding school or they start having severe anxiety.

So those kids fall through the cracks because parents don't know how to explain what's going on. There's a very formal process to be identified and evaluated that parents don't know how to do well. It's getting easier, the internet's made this a lot faster. But sometimes they need an expert at the table that can help guide them to really lower the temperature on families that are trying to advocate and hitting a brick wall all the time.

Rachel: You need someone just to kind of help the parents come prepared with key messages and what they want to get across.

Danielle: And I've had families pull together amazing spreadsheets on, you know, this is what we see at home, this is what you might see at school, what teachers have told us. So anything that they can document from teachers in writing is super helpful. But also just to share with them, it's more than just one teacher that's expressing this. And usually in those meetings, the teachers that are expressing it are not invited to those meetings.

Rachel: So, which is very frustrating.

Danielle: Yeah, we have to get real smart to help families, you know, make sure the people are in the room that need to be, that know your kid.

Rachel: Yeah, and I think that actually really speaks to the point, which we've talked about in other episodes, of like having conversations with your child's teacher whenever you can because it gives you a sense of who thinks what. So if you're trying to find someone who really gets it or who is seeing what you're seeing at home, maybe because of the time of day that they have your child, that can make a big difference, you know?

Gretchen: Like a teacher who sees them at the end of the day when maybe they're starting to unravel a little might have a completely different take on this kid than somebody who sees them at 9:00 a.m., you know?

Danielle: That happens a lot, Rachel, and you've nailed it. And so requesting a functional behavior assessment — so this is where families can request an expert in the district that will go in and observe your kiddo and get real data on what's happening. What might be triggering the child to have a, you know, dysregulation moment or a meltdown. Yeah, or if they're inattentive, they are trained to observe all those areas. And that data is what you need to bring back to teams to say, we need support here, we need to build programming around the child.

And that's the other tricky part is most kids might have an eligible disability in the eyes of IDEA, but teams may not want to develop a plan for that because they aren't showing enough of a gap between their potential because they're functioning at a higher level as a twice-exceptional kid. And so the gap looks very different than a typical kid. And I always like to remind teams, again, this isn't an individualized education plan. Every child is unique. So we can't be basing this on Mary and Jimmy, right? And so you have to bring in your team. So I actually do allow families to bring in, you know, maybe their private therapists to those meetings to help really paint the picture for what they're seeing in their expert opinion. And it's not just the parent being the squeaky wheel.

Rachel: Right.

(09:20) Who is legally eligible for an IEP?

Gretchen: So you mentioned IDEA a couple of times. What does it say about who is eligible for an IEP?

Danielle: It's actually very specific and there's great resources now, every state has a manual for families on your parental rights under IDEA and the state's ability to meet that federal mandate. They have to. It's required by law, still, to this day, required by law.

So the definition is you have to have one of 13 categorized disabilities. The most common for kids with learning disabilities and twice exceptional would be someone who has "other health impairment," and this includes ADHD, sometimes epilepsy, sometimes other mental health conditions. Then the other one would be like SLD, which is special, specific learning disability. I apologize.

Rachel: There's too many acronyms. They're going to need a dictionary.

Gretchen: And we do have a good article on site that lists all 13 disabilities that are covered under IDEA.

Danielle: Wonderful.

Gretchen: So we'll link to that.

Danielle: Please do. Yes, we link to Understood all the time in our practice because it's just, it's so wonderful to have it in layman's terms explaining these very dense legal and also medical terms. Okay? So it gets pretty wonky. So it has to be one of these 13 conditions. That's the first requirement.

For the medical conditions, you do need a medical diagnosis that has to be signed by an MD. This gets tricky for some families. Some families have a nurse practitioner that signs evaluations. Many districts will play games and request an MD, you know, evaluation. So it's just delay tactics. And it's unfortunate for many families, right? Because they feel like, okay, it took us this long to get a diagnosis, and now why can't we just get an IEP or a 504? It doesn't work that way. You have to really show why you need specialized instruction, which is the third requirement. The specialized instruction is also related services. So I'm using two keywords, here, key phrases that are important.

Related services could be things like speech language, OT, occupational therapy, PT, physical therapy. It could be counseling support. The other big area is it has to affect educational performance, the disability. And this is the biggie, the big section of...

Rachel: That's the tricky spot, right?

Danielle: Tricky spot because there's a whole process and a way to promote what you're seeing at home and what you're seeing in the classroom and how that translates into supports by teams. This is where our 2E kids really fall through the cracks because most of the time they don't have a behavior issue. But something's missing, right? The teachers might see they're not engaging enough, they're not turning in homework. I do have many families with kids that are actually starting to now refuse to go to school because they just can't keep up. And they're also, they're feeling this like imposter syndrome of that, you know, well, I should be able to do this, but why can't I just turn my homework in or why can't I participate in that group project? It's too overwhelming for me.

And sometimes they're too young to be able to verbalize it, or the mental health conditions affect it. And so sometimes it isn't until you get to that point when you're in crisis mode that you actually really can get the attention of the child study teams.

Gretchen: Ladies, I apologize. My dog is being a little yippy downstairs, so I apologize if you hear him little barking happening in the background.

Rachel: Just wants to be part of the fun.

Gretchen: Yeah, he has FOMO. I mean, you know.

(13:04) How 504 plans can support your child

Rachel: So, Danielle, you've mentioned 504s a couple times, but for people who are maybe still navigating all this and don't, you know, really understand the difference, where do 504s fit into this conversation?

Danielle: So a 504 plan really does help a lot of twice-exceptional students because sometimes they just need accommodations. 504 plans fall under the Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, and this is a civil rights law that allows access for for individuals with disabilities into our workplaces and to our schools. It really is designed for schools to help provide accommodations like they need extended time to finish classwork or a test, or sometimes they'd also to help a student who needs to take specific medicine. So visiting a nurse, it's really to allow them to be able to be in a general ed setting with their peers as much as possible.

So a lot of our 2E kids, sometimes a 504 plan might be enough because it does, you can have the related services like OT and PT and speech under a 504. As advocates, we don't really enjoy that aspect of the 504 plan to have those related services bundled in there because there aren't the procedural safeguards for families to check with progress. There aren't any goals with a 504 plan. The goal development and the related services under an IEP, there's a much more robust checks and balances for families under that. So with a 504, you have to be the squeaky wheel and stay on top of the teachers. Yeah, or the counselor or the speech therapist. You have to do a lot of chasing, you know, around the school to make sure your child's needs are being met. I do think first and foremost all families, if they have a child who's eligible, has a disability, they should absolutely try and get a 504 right away. It's much quicker. That process moves much faster than the eligibility for an IEP. You can't have both. So you can start with one, the 504 usually. And while that's supporting some accommodations and some needs, you can also be requesting eligibility for an IEP.

Rachel: That's a great piece of advice. And so I'm wondering what other advice you have, you know, for families who, you know, their kid, they're doing well in school, their grades look like they're perfect, right? But behind the scenes, they know that to get these grades, things aren't easy. What are some tips you have for those families?

Danielle: I have a couple families right now that this is exactly the position we're in. The parents are holding a lot of the scaffolding up for these kiddos.

Rachel: Right.

Danielle: They have tutors, they have private therapy, they have homework time every day, you know. So our kiddos who need to work really hard to get through the school day and also to finish homework at night, it's, it takes a toll. There isn't enough time for them to play. There isn't enough time for them to be a kid.

Gretchen: Yeah.

Danielle: And that's where families are starting to crack because they can't keep up with it anymore. And so we have to try and level that. And so I request, and this is difficult for many families, that they pull back on the scaffolding. Okay, they have to show the teams at school the true picture, okay, of what's happening. And until you break down the scaffolding, those supports, because you can't use those supports in college. Mom and Dad are not going to college with you. Mom and Dad are not going to work with you, you know, to be living independently.

That's the key aspect here is we're trying to build independence for our children so that they can be an active member of our society. That's the progress that we're trying to see. And if they can't meet that without all of these supports, support teams helping them, that's a huge flag. I also think another great tip for families, particularly twice-exceptional, there are a lot of amazing resources out there and support groups, parent groups that they should get involved in. And the first one I always say is to try and find, there's usually a gifted and talented parent group in your district. If you have a child that's twice-exceptional, definitely participate in that. But also your special ed parent advisory groups. These are called SEPACs, and most districts have them.

So those are two great resources, but also, you know, go to your pediatrician and ask for some advice and other experts that they can, they can share. There are some great social workers out there that can also provide resources for families who are trying to navigate the, like, mental health condition on top of the learning disability. So those are the resources that as advocates we try to tap into and depending on where you live. And sometimes you might live, maybe, in a remote area where you don't have easy access to this. And so we help bridge that gap. And now with the internet and Zoom and Google Meet and all that, we can really help, I guess, support much quicker.

Rachel: Great advice.

(18:11) A listener’s story

Gretchen: So going back to the listener story that we started off with, ultimately, she did succeed in getting her child an IEP. I'm going to quote from what she had to say about that.

Rachel: Yeah, happy ending.

Gretchen: Yes. "What finally worked for us and led to an evaluation is how I approached our conversation with the school. I started by laying out my understanding of the law and emphasizing that academic impact and educational impact aren't the same thing and making the case for how my son's education was being impacted outside of his academic scores." Okay. So that's a little confusing to me. Can you break that down a bit? The difference between academic impact and educational impact? What should we be looking for as parents or caregivers that could be used to demonstrate educational impact?

Danielle: Right. And this is like the $10 million question because this is this big gray area in special education law and in understanding how you qualify or are eligible to receive services.

So the academic impact is how the disability is affecting their ability to access their academics. So there should be one and a half to two standard deviations of difference between what they can complete and what is, you know, the benchmark for the regular average or typical student. When you get these wonky evaluations from the teams or when you get a private evaluation, usually there's a whole bunch of recommendations that go with that on how they are addressing those specific academic deficiencies in the child to help them meet their needs.

The educational impact, that is the three-pronged aspect of educational impact. And it should be the academic, social-emotional, and functional needs of the child. So, the social-emotional and functional needs of the child, this is the tricky part. And that parent got it right by showing what was happening. And she had a fabulous spreadsheet, I'm sure, with the data. So this is also important, families need to gather data. You need to show the schools not just what you're seeing and hearing, you have to start observing and keeping track or having experts provide recommendations for you on what that looks like.

So, you know, social-emotional is peer relations, peer development, how they are able to adjust transitions, if they're able to be regulated throughout the day or if they're having, you know, mood swings or they're having temper tantrums or meltdowns, their inattentiveness, that's also part of it. But the functional needs are also how they're able to get through their day and that also is a huge part because you can't access your education if you can't function. So for families that have kids that have school avoidance issues or have severe anxiety, they can't function because they actually can't even get to school. Right. So that's a huge gap in their ability to access their education. And many school teams will say, well, that's not our problem, that's the parents' problem. And we work really closely with teams to try and explain that no, actually it is a joint problem. We need your support because it's affecting the child's ability to get to school.

But that three-pronged view of educational impact is really important. And it takes patience and a lot of data to actually bring it to the table and eloquently tell your team without breaking down, you know, what's going on. And so that's why a lot of times families need their expert support to have at that table.

Rachel: Yeah.

Gretchen: So I think we're getting towards the end of our conversation, Danielle. So do you have any other bits of advice you want to share for families with kids who are quote-unquote too smart to be considered for an IEP?

Danielle: I do think parents need to really listen to their kids, and I want them also to be transparent with them when they are of an appropriate age. The older children get and as they matriculate from middle school into high school, it's really important that they start participating at the IEP table or with their 504 because they're the ones that need to start advocating, not just the parents. Schools want to see that as well. It's a huge part of why schools want — most states have an age that a child should start participating in the IEP process. In New Jersey, where I live, it's 14.

So a lot of families are, you know, "Oh, I don't want to share all this information. They'll make them more anxious or make them, you know, they'll have a label." Kids are really smart. Kids, kids already know that they're different. So it actually helps them understand more about their unique gifts and how they can navigate it. And I do like kids to share, at least the first five to 10 minutes of an IEP meeting or a 504 annual meeting to tell a little bit about what's going on in their day-to-day and how they would love to get some help or how they'd like to pull back on certain services. It's really powerful and school teams really want to hear that.

And then another two for 2E families, there are some great resources and I'm sure Understood has some great resources too, but I love "Tilt Parenting," Debbie Reber. She wrote a great book called "Differently Wired Kids" and has great community resources for families of twice-exceptional kids. And I know I talked a little bit about school avoidance. I like a lot of the resources from the School Avoidance Alliance. They are a national nonprofit that helps to raise awareness about how to help families navigate kids who are struggling to get to school.

Rachel: Great.

Gretchen: And this is just such a helpful conversation I feel like it’s a helpful navigation tool because it is really hard to know where to start with some of this.

Danielle: Well, thank you so much for this great conversation, Danielle.

Rachel: Yeah, thank you.

Danielle: Thank you for having me today, ladies. My pleasure.

(24:28) Credits

Gretchen: Thanks so much for listening. If you have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at init@understood.org. And check out the show notes for this episode, where we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned. This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you'd like to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give.

"In It" is produced and edited by Julie Subrin, with additional production support from Cody Nelson, Andrew M.I. Lee, and Jesse DeMartino, who also mixes the show. Mike Errico wrote our theme music and Briana Berry is our production director. From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Jordan Davidson. Thanks for listening and thanks for always being in it with us.