When your child is labeled the “bad kid”

What happens when a child with learning and thinking differences gets labeled as the “bad kid”? In this episode of In It, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek welcome Aleesha, a parent of five children, four of whom have an ADHD diagnosis. Aleesha has seen the effects of a child being perceived — and named — as the “bad kid.”

She shares what it’s been like to navigate school systems and the painful experience of seeing her child misunderstood.

We talk about why kids with ADHD and other learning differences are often mischaracterized. And Aleesha shares tips about what parents can do to support their children—and themselves—through it all.

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at init@understood.org.

• What should I do when my child says “I’m bad”?

• 7 tips for improving your relationship with your child’s teacher

• Feeling socially isolated as a parent? You’re not alone

• 8 things I wish people knew about parenting a child with ADHD

• What to do when your child is the bully

(2:19) First sign of a “bad kid” perception

(4:17) First parent-teacher conference

(4:48) End-of-year experience

(7:04) Important sign of a challenge with the teacher

(11:27) Talking with your child who feels like the teacher doesn’t like them

(12:39) Another perspective

(15:25) Talking to teachers about the impacts of their words and actions

(19:02) Advice for parents in a similar situation

(21:50) Focusing on the positive

Gretchen: Hello and welcome to "In It," a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently.

Rachel: Here you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes, and yes, sometimes failures from experts and from parents and caregivers like you.

Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org.

Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor, and mom who has definitely been in it. Today, we're talking about something that honestly trips me up every time I have say it because the phrase bothers me so much.

Gretchen: Same, but here we go. We're talking about raising kids with learning and thinking differences who come to be seen as quote unquote, a bad kid.

Rachel: Sometimes the label comes from a teacher. Sometimes it's coming from peers or other adults. No matter where it's come from, this label, whether it's said out loud or just implied, can really do a number on a child's self-esteem.

Gretchen: Today, we're talking with a mom who has watched several of her kids go through this. Aleesha has five kids, ages eight to 22. Four of them are neurodivergent, and three have struggled with that "bad kid" label to one degree or another.

Rachel: We're going to be talking mostly about her youngest, her eight-year-old son, and we're not going to use his name to protect his privacy.

Gretchen: We're so grateful that she's open to sharing her experiences with us. Aleesha, welcome to "In It."

Aleesha: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Gretchen: I'm wondering if we could start off with you telling us a little bit about your youngest son. What's he like? What's into? All that good stuff.

Aleesha: Because he's the youngest of five, he is admittedly a teensy bit spoiled. And not by me, but by his four older siblings — he is the youngest child by almost six years. So, he has enjoyed being smothered with affection from his siblings for years. And he is just an absolute joy and angel. He is a ball of energy and gosh, pretty much nonstop motion. He has no idea that he's not as big and rough and tough as his older siblings.

Rachel: So, as you know, for this episode, we're talking about kids who get labeled as quote, "bad kids," by teachers, maybe by other grown-ups, or by their peers. When did you first start to get the sense that that's how your son was being perceived? And what were you seeing? Or maybe what was he sharing with you?

Aleesha: So, it's, it really started in first grade. Kindergarten, he was really lucky to have teachers who really made an effort and cared about him and recognized that he just had a lot of energy. So, but we did start just he was in a school in kindergarten where they wanted, it was a charter school and it was very rigid, and so everyone is sitting facing forward in desks like typically kindergarten is tables and there's sharing crayons you know this was like you're sitting face forward and hands to yourself the whole time.

And I came in the classroom one day to volunteer and realized that he was isolated at the front of the room by himself with no other kids around him. And I was like, I didn't, I wasn't expecting to see that. And because she hadn't communicated anything to me that there were any concerns. And she said, "Oh, he just can't sit with other kids because he can't keep to himself." And I'm like, "Oh."

And eventually, the teacher reached out to me and told me she felt like the school probably wasn't a good fit for him, that he would do better in a school where they had more recess and more time to play. And so, we switched him back to public school and he did much better. There was playtime and toys, and a lot of movement. There was a lot movement in his kindergarten class. And so, he did great. And I asked his kindergarten teacher, you know, "He was kind of a behavior problem, are you seeing the same things?" And she's like, "No, I don't see any of that."

Then he got to first grade, and that's when things kind of started to slide downhill, and he would get these really poor marks on his report card for behavior. And I hadn't gotten any communication from the teacher at all.

And so, we had our first parent-teacher conference, and she's like, "Well, he's just such a problem in the classroom," and blah, blah, and I'm like, "But you haven't communicated any of that to me. I couldn't follow up. I didn't have any idea this was happening." And she's, like, "Well, you should know your child is a difficult child" and blah blah blah.

It was really kind of surprising for me because I do have, out of five children, four of them, including him, are diagnosed with ADHD and I have ADHD, but I wasn't seeing the signs in him.

So, I didn't think it was going to be an issue. But it wasn't until the end of the year. I mean, we had a lot of problems all year long, but I think when it hit me the hardest was at the end of the year, the teacher had an award ceremony for the kids. You know, one of those ones where they give every kid a different kind of most bubbly, most friendly, most...best at math kind of things.

Gretchen: Slightly problematic award ceremony.

Aleesha: Yes and she calls every kid in the class up, and I have to explain, too, I was expecting him to get like a math award because this kid is brilliant at math. His 98th percentile, you know, of gifted kids in math. He's really good at it. So, I was expecting that, and instead he got most adventurous, which I was like "OK, he's very adventurous. That's a cool word." If she had left it there, it would be one thing. She didn't say anything about any of the other kids that was negative. Like 20 kids and 22, 24 kids in this classroom, she said not a thing that was negative about another kid, and he was the very last one.

And she says, "So and so is most adventurous because could not be still and kept us all going and couldn't stop talking and had to ask a question about everything." And she just went, I don't even remember all the things she said, and it was all so negative. And I was like, "Are we even talking about the same kid? You know, that's not what I see at home," and so, that's the first time that it hit me really hard that maybe he needed some more help.

Rachel: Ugh, but that is not a fun way to find out.

Aleesha: No.

Gretchen: So, when your son got this award, do you think he was aware at all that there was negativity to it? Do you think you was aware it all that he was already being labeled this sort of like bad or, you know, bad behavior kid?

Aleesha: So, I think he already knew. Because this teacher, and I love teachers, I have so many friends who are teachers. I think teachers are amazing, and I know they have a lot to deal with and it has to be hard to deal with a difficult child. I'm not trying to judge her in how she handled things, but it was, they weren't a good fit. Let's put it like that. They were not a good fit.

And one of the things that tipped me off that something was wrong was that he was having accidents at school in first grade when he'd been potty trained for years. And when I would ask him about it, he's like, "I'm not allowed to go to the bathroom." And when I would talk to the teacher, she's like "Of course he's allowed to, I would never keep a child from going to the bathroom," but then when I'm like, she says you can go anytime, and he's like, rolls his eyes. Like "She says that, but she doesn't really mean it, mommy, like she doesn't mean it. She'll let other kids go to the bathroom, but I'm such a problem, like. She's not gonna let me, because I'm the problem. Like, I'm a problem kid, you know?"

Gretchen: Yeah.

Aleesha: Like, he didn't, I think it was obvious to him.

Rachel: Yeah. Kids get it. I've seen that too with kids who are like, "Well, I don't want to ask because I know that it'll annoy her, or they feel like they're bothering the teacher. And so, it's not even that they would necessarily say no. But if they're like, "ugh," that is the worst feeling.

Gretchen: Because the kids already sense they're on that bad list, right? And so, why make it worse and why highlight it by asking something and possibly getting a "ugh"? Which is terrible.

Aleesha: Exactly, and he would say things like, "My teacher doesn't like me." You know, and I don't think it's normal for a first grader to feel like their teacher doesn't like them.

Gretchen: No.

Rachel: So, how did you feel like that affected him at the time, and his sense of himself?

Aleesha: So, what would happen — I should have probably picked up on more of these clues along the way, but we're moms, we don't always see everything — but he would be really unhappy when he came home from school every day. Every day, he'd get off the bus unhappy, which he's a really happy kid overall in general, so I just thought he was tired, he was getting used to being in school. I mean, it's different than kindergarten because in kindergarten, they get to play more, they get more recess.

You know, I tried picking him up from school, thinking maybe it was because he was on the bus too long, and so maybe the bus was the problem and that didn't solve the issue. And so, we just, we kept troubleshooting why he was so tired in the afternoons and why he so grumpy and crabby and kind of irritable. It really changed his personality. And I think it was the way he was treated in the classroom that made the biggest difference.

Gretchen: And so, how did you talk about it with him?

Aleesha: So, we're pretty big on like the family team in our house, right? Like everybody talks to each other, everybody communicates, we have family council once a week and so we would just, I mean I just asked him like "What happened at school today?" "Nothing." You know, "What did you learn at school today?" "Nothing." He was just stonewalling me. I felt like completely disconnected. I offered, she would not let me come in and volunteer in the classroom. So, I thought, "Oh, she just doesn't have, she just doesn't like parent volunteers."

Every now and then, you get a teacher like that. But it's pretty rare in first grade. But then I found out from another parent that she had parent volunteers all the time. But she wouldn't let me come in the classroom. So, I feel like, A, she didn't like my child, so therefore she didn't like me. I must be a bad mom if my child is acting this way or maybe he's being neglected. She actually sent him to the school counselor a couple of times for some things that... some of his behaviors that actually are very normal for this age.

Like he slapped a girl on the butt, which my husband slaps my booty, right? Like it's just a silly little thing that when he walks by me, and he's seen that. And so we hadn't had a, I guess we had not had to talk enough about, "This is not appropriate behavior for you," but I guess he's kind of smacked a little girl on the but, you know? And oh, it was sexual harassment. They were horrified that he would behave this way.

So, she sent him to the school counselor, and she told me, I think, something along the lines, this is one of the very few communications we had, she said, "If behavior like this continues, then we may have to call child services." And I'm like, "Are we even talking about the same kid?" But luckily, the school counselor called me and he's like, "This was ridiculous. He did nothing wrong." I mean, of course, he needed to apologize to the girl. It was wrong, but it's a quick redirect, and this is not appropriate. And guess what, guys? He's never done it since.

Gretchen: Right. So, I still want to go back to you talking to him about all of this. Because if you're in first grade and you get this sense, right, that your teacher doesn't like you and that they've singled you out as a kid they just don't like, it's so hard. So, like did you actually talk to him about that? "Are you getting these feelings from your teacher?" I don't know. I'm just curious what you said, because that's so much for a little kid to carry that they feel like their own teacher who seems to be loving everyone else, doesn't love them.

Aleesha: So, the conversations that we had, he would completely shut me down. So, he developed some pretty significant school-based anxiety. So, he would get in the car and I would say, "Well, can you talk to me about what happened today? Because you seem unhappy," and he's like, "No. Nothing happened. I'm fine. Don't." He just would shut down, which again, isn't his personality type. His personality type is very vivacious, outgoing, friendly, but I didn't realize quite how much it was affecting him until he started third grade.

He started having huge panic attacks. He would not get out of the car. He would scream hysterically. I would have to sit in the car with him and just play quiet music, and "We can go in whenever you're ready. You know, like you do have to go to school."

And that's when my daughter stepped in. I have an older daughter who struggled and was also labeled pretty early as a difficult child. And she was like, "Mommy, he has ADHD and he has anxiety." And I was like, "No, he doesn't."

Rachel: Wow.

Aleesha: I'm like, "This is just how kids this age behave. He's just bubbly, he's just hyper." She's like, "No, he had ADHD and I got in trouble at school all the time and it made me hate school and it made me not have friends and it make people make fun of me and I get bullied." And she's like "You need to get him on medication. If you get him a medication it will help him." Like this is my child advocating for my child with me, and I went, "OK." And I made an appointment and we got him, I mean, it wasn't rocket science to get him diagnosed. Luckily, his third-grade teacher was like, "Yeah, 100%. It only took like two weeks of school for me to be like, this kid has ADHD."

Gretchen: Wow. Wow.

Rachel: Best sister ever. And we know that your son is not your first time at the ADHD rodeo. So, talk a little bit about, you just mentioned that she had had some kind of similar experiences at school. Can you talk a bit more about that?

Aleesha: Yeah, she's a chatterbox. So, people familiar with ADHD in girls know that in girls it manifests in a kind of nonstop chatter. And she would constantly be told, "Be quiet, be quiet, be quiet." And that would always hurt my heart, because I was told the same thing as a little girl. And I actually, just to go back to my experience as a child, I actually stopped talking at school in about third grade completely. And so, I was really, really conscious of the effect that those words would have on my daughter because of the affect they had on me. So, we had constant conversations about it.

But when she got to middle school, there was this day she had laryngitis and she couldn't speak. I mean, it was like...like she couldn't talk. And she walked into the classroom, and she was like, "I can't talk today." And the teacher was like "Woo-hoo, we might actually get some peace in class today." And that actually affected her mental health really significantly.

Rachel: Yeah.

Aleesha: At a really vulnerable age. And I, again, I get it. She can be a challenge. She has no filters whatsoever. And so, she can still say whatever she's thinking. And it's actually very freeing to know that she's gonna tell you exactly how she feels. But that was a really hard time. We ended up switching schools at the end of the year. We put her back in public school, and she's actually done really well.

Gretchen: OK, so going back to your son, if you could talk to some of your son's past teachers, who may have labeled him as "the bad kid," or your daughter's teacher that did the same, what would you want them to understand about your kids, and perhaps the impact that their words and their actions have on kids who learn and think differently?

Aleesha: So, I have some pretty strong feelings about this because I think it's less than teachers, I think the public school system in general, and the way that it's structured. It's structured so specifically for one type of person. It's structured for a very neurotypical person who does well in this specific set environment. And when you have a child who operates outside of that environment, labeling them "bad" is not productive or helpful. It's just... it's better and more helpful to recognize that they think differently. "OK, this kid learns differently. This kid thinks differently."

Now, it's easy to say that my kid's not the one throwing desks around the room, right? Like, he's the one that won't stop talking or is poking the kid next to him or gets up and moves around all the time. But I think if we could find a better balance and find ways to encourage, and I actually have seen that personally. So, when my second oldest child was in kindergarten, he was way ahead of the curve and super, super, super smart. And his kindergarten teacher recognized that his acting out at school was boredom. And she reached out to me and she said, "I'd like to give him a little bit different curriculum to give them something more to do."

So, she did two things. One was that she gave him whole different books to read. His kindergarten spelling list was chrysalis and marsupial, and he loved it. And he learned the words, and he did fantastic. The other thing that she did was to buddy him up with another child who was struggling a little bit. And so, his job was to help the other child understand and figure things out so that that freed the teacher up. And he did. He buddied that little girl all the way through kindergarten and first grade.

But then you got to second grade and the teacher wasn't as happy with that, you know, arrangement, and it was constantly, "Worry about yourself, worry about yourself, stop thinking about the people next to you, worry yourself," and yeah, didn't. So, you know, just the differences in how those teachers handled it made a big difference. So, one, going, "Oh, you think differently, you learn differently. You might be bored," and another teacher going, "Your child can't sit still, he needs medication," which is where we are in this particular child now, at eight, he's in second grade. And his teacher said, "He's not sitting still. He's not paying attention. Everything's harder for him. He needs medication."

And it's frustrating for me, as a parent, to feel like I'm medicating my child for the teacher.

Rachel: Right.

Aleesha: Because I think he doesn't need to spend 30 minutes learning the same subject that the kid next to him needs to spend 30 minutes. So, he's wiggly because he's bored.

Gretchen: Yeah.

Aleesha: So, it's, I think what I would tell the teachers is: Try to see them for the beautiful soul that they are, and if you try to love them a little bit instead of just be frustrated, because they irritate me too. I'm their mom. They irritate sometimes. Name me a mom whose kids have never irritated them and I'll name you a mom who doesn't take care of her own kids. So, yeah, that's what I'd say.

Rachel: Do you have any advice for parents who are navigating this kind of thing with their own kids?

Aleesha: I think it is to continue to make the effort to keep the conversation going both with the child and with the teacher. So, it's been a struggle because, like I said, last year in first grade, this child was very... he shut down. So, he did not want to talk to me about school. And so, we've tried to kind of flip the script this year and ask him specific questions rather than "How was your day?" it's "What did you do at recess? You know or? Instead of, "What did you learn today? It's, "Do you remember anything funny that the teacher said today?" Just trying to pick out specific things that give them a little more confidence in talking to you about school.

Rachel: Yeah.

Aleesha: And then with the teacher, that has been a little bit more of a struggle. He has a male teacher this year, and he is not, like he's Clark Kent. He even looks like Clark Kent, like bashful and quiet, and shy. He's really great with the kids, but with adults, he's not as communicative. So, he doesn't say a lot, so I have to constantly ask, "Can you tell me about this aspect of his behavior? Do you feel like this is doing better?"

One thing I think that is going really well, and I would suggest to any teacher and parent who's trying to figure out that, you know how they have like red light, green light kind og thing? He does a system similar to that, except it's orange, and then green and blue are the three colors. Or I think there might be red too, but we've never, knock on wood, we haven't gotten to red. But in our past experience, the teachers have left them where they, so if you move to orange, you're on orange. That's it. Which to me communicates, "You're a bad kid, that's it, you made one bad choice, you're a bad kid."

Rachel: Yeah.

Aleesha: This teacher allows them to move back and forth throughout the day.

Gretchen: Which they should.

Aleesha: I agree. So, they can go down, he can go down to orange, and then he can come back up all the way to blue. Which, and green is like, "You did great," blue is like "You were outstanding." And I'm seeing more and more blues in this child's chart. So, it's communicating that things are working, that he's doing well.

But when I talk to him about it, that's when he's like, "Well, I almost got blue today. But I had to, I was on blue and I had to move it back down because..." And I'm like, "Well, what happened that made you move it back down?" "Well, I couldn't sit still while we were working on worksheets," or whatever. And I like, "I understand it's hard to sit still. That must be frustrating for you. And how do you deal with that?" Like we just try to just have conversations.

Gretchen: That's good. I mean, I think just a side note, we can have a whole episode on these behavior management systems in school.

Rachel: Oh my God, right?

Gretchen: And how they're really not working.

Rachel: Yeah.

Gretchen: And sending bad messages, but that's for another time.

Aleesha: So, I do have another little advice for parents. When we talk about our children to other people, if we focus on the negative things, "Oh, they're struggling with this, they're struggling with that, they're struggling with this," those things spin in our brain, and we begin to perceive our child that way consistently. If we focus on the positive things, we try to bring out the positive, the positive thing stands out to us more. And so, I think that the more we do that with their teachers as well in conversation, you know, "Well, have you noticed how creative he is?" If the teacher's like, "Oh, he's just been so disruptive."

"Well, I'm sorry for that. And how can we support you? But also, have you noticed his artwork? I've been noticing a lot of really great artwork coming home," and just reframing it, pushing it back to something positive. Maybe just helping the teachers see that as well might have a positive impact. I think it has worked really well with us.

Gretchen: That's a great idea. Thank you so much.

Rachel: Thank you so much. That was really helpful.

Aleesha: Thank you, ladies.

Rachel: Thanks so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at init@understood.org.

Gretchen: And check out the show notes for this episode, where we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned.

Rachel: This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences, like ADHD and dyslexia. If you'd like to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

Gretchen: "In It" is produced and edited by Julie Subrin, with additional production support from Cody Nelson and Samiah Adams. Justin D. Wright mixes the show, and Mike Ericco wrote our theme music. Briana Berry is our production director, Neil Drumming is our editorial director.

Rachel: From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for listening.

Gretchen: And thanks for always being in it with us.