Where do I start? Talking about sex to your kid with ADHD

In this episode, hosts Gretchen Vierstra and Rachel Bozek welcome Amy Lang. Amy is a sex educator who works with kids with learning and thinking differences. She is also the founder of birdsandbeesandkids.com. She helps the hosts tackle a tricky but essential topic: talking to kids with ADHD about sex. Here are just a few of the topics Amy talks about:

• Ways to talk about — and not talk about — body parts.

• Helping kids understand how to navigate these topics both inside and outside the home.

• Why these conversations are so important.

Listen for tips on how you can make these talks comfortable and effective. It’s a thoughtful, honest conversation that will help parents, caregivers, or anyone wondering how to support kids as they learn about sex.

We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at init@understood.org.

• 8 ways to help teens with ADHD avoid dating trouble spots

• ADHD and sex

• Sex, intimacy, and ADHD

• Birds + Bees + Kids

(1:39) When your child starts the conversation 

(7:00) The importance of social cues

(9:21) Kids being well-informed

(11:28) What age to start talking about sex with your kid

(14:00) Using the real names of body parts

(17:04) Talking to kids at different ages

(20:00) Potential challenges 

Gretchen: Hello and welcome to "In It," a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently.

Rachel: Here, you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes, and yes, sometimes failures from experts and from parents and caregivers like you.

Gretchen: I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org.

Rachel: And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor, and mom who has definitely been in it. Today, we're talking about that thing so many of us dread talking about with our kids.

Gretchen: Yep, you guessed it, we're talking about how to talk about sex.

Rachel: Ugh, and luckily for us, we have a real pro here to help us.

Gretchen: Amy Lang is a sexuality, parenting, and sexual abuse prevention expert who specializes in working with neurodivergent kids and their families.

Rachel: She's the creator of birdsandbeesandkids.com, where she offers courses and resources. She's also written books on the subject and hosted a podcast called "Just Say This."

Gretchen: We're so glad she's going to give us some guidance on how to handle this sometimes cringy parenting terrain.

Rachel: And a heads up, in case you haven't guessed, we will be using some explicit sex-related language in this conversation.

Gretchen: Hi Amy, welcome to "In It."

Amy: Hi, thanks for having me.

We're so excited for this topic. So, let's start with how you got into helping parents navigate sex education with their kids. You worked in sexual health education for a number of years. And then you had a kid and...what happened?

Amy: Well, I thought I was going to be a spectacular sex talker when it came time to talk with him, and he was getting ready for a bath. He was about five, and he grabbed his penis, and he said, "Hey, mama, did you know?" And I stood there, and I thought, "Please, don't tell me it feels good to touch your penis," because I was like, I got nothing. So, I did the grown-up thing of poker-facing, right, like we're supposed to do when we're shocked. And I poker-faced, and said, "What?" And he said, "I can see the veins in there where the blood goes." And I said, "Great, get in the bathtub." And that was my little moment where I realized that I was like, "Hey, give me a pregnant 15-year-old. I can do that, but I can't do this guy."

So, then I was, like, all right, you've got to figure this out. So, I did a bunch of research to figure out how do you talk to young kids about sexuality? What should that look like? When should the conversation start? All that good stuff. And then my other part of my background is that I have a master's in applied behavioral science, and my focus was in adult education. And so, I had this big brainwave and I thought, "Hey, I could help other parents have these conversations," because there weren't any resources at the time. So, I started Birds and Bees and Kids. And here we are.

Gretchen: Do you remember a specific moment, besides this one, where you maybe failed to have a conversation or realized "Oh no, I should have covered this already," or just something had gone terribly wrong with your own child?

Amy: Oh, yeah. Well, my biggest, like, "Oh God," embarrassing moment is that one of my things is that by the time your kid starts middle school, doesn't matter, neurotypical, neurodivergent, they need to have a basic understanding of just about everything related to sexuality. So, I walk my talk. And I realized the night before middle school that we had never talked about oral sex for some reason. And he'd probably read it or whatever. But I felt like, here we go. We're like going to. BJ land, right? Kids are talking about this.

And so, he's in his bedroom. And he's getting ready, he's getting his clothes laid out, and I'm like, OK, so I've got to do this. I've gotta do this, so here's some tactics to use with your child.

So, I stood in his doorway, I didn't look at him, and I said, "Hey, I just need to ask you a question," I said. "Have you ever heard, do you know what oral sex is? Have you ever heard that?" And he was like, "Yeah, I've heard of it." And I said, "Do you know what it is?" And he said, "No." He can't see me, right? I'm like, "Damn it." And I said, "Well, I just need to let you know," and I explained, "You know, sometimes it's a sex thing, and it's something people agree to do. And it's when one person puts their mouth on another person's private penis, clitoris, vulva, because it feels good. Not for kids. Later in life." And he said, "OK." And I said, "Do you have any questions?" "No."

And then my husband was across the room, and he's like he said something funny, which I don't remember because I was completely flooded, right? I was like "I just did this thing," and he said something totally funny, we all cracked up, and that was the end. So, I did it, but it was like that moment of like "Oh my God, I should know what I'm doing here, I don't know what I'm doing, like all that discomfort, anyway.

Gretchen: Wow, I can't believe that, well I can because this is your job, but that like when you forget something, you're like, "You know what? I'm just going to cover it right now because it's the night before middle school." I would never have been brave enough to do that.

Amy: Yeah, I did, I did it.

Rachel: OK, so you've created sex education resources, which we've talked about a little bit, that are specifically designed for parents and caregivers of kids who are neurodivergent. Why did it feel important to you to do that?

Amy: Well, I have worked with neurodivergent kids, parents of kids, with both, everybody, right? All my whole career. But in the last few years, I would be doing a consultation, and somebody would just drop in, "Oh, ADHD. Oh, autistic." And I was like, what is happening here? So, I started to get smart, and I asked at the top, "Any neurodivergence in the family?" And it turned out like, I want to say it felt like two-thirds of the parents had something going on. And so then I thought, "OK, y'all need help."

And so, I went out to find some, and there isn't anything. There's nobody but me, near as I can tell, doing what I'm doing, which is creating resources specifically for parents of kids who are neurodivergent. And it's for their brains, because they're neurodivergent, too, and the kiddo brain, right? And that experience. So, I got a certification in neurodiversity and sexuality, and disability from Mercy College. I have been listening to podcasts, going to conferences. I just want to be helpful.

Because your kids, the ADHDers, are at high risk for a lot of trouble, as it turns out. And what we know, in general, about sexuality education and children, and in particular, parents doing that, the kids are safer, they make better decisions, they're healthier, they're happier. And it's always important for any child, but for kids who are neurodivergent, it's doubly important because of the risks of all kinds crappy stuff happening.

Rachel: So, thanks for all that. We also had some specific examples of reasons why kids may need something like this, or families may need like this for their kids. Can I run through a few of them for you?

Amy: Oh, yeah, please.

Rachel: So, one is the idea that kids can misinterpret social cues. And it seems like that is one of the reasons why this might be really important. Have you seen that yourself?

Amy: Yeah, when your brain is wired differently and you're an adolescent or a pre-adolescent, when there's a lot of chat going on, a lot the problem is really about the words people are using, intonation, just the content. And so, you have a kid that says, I'm sorry, I always get hung up on BJs, but you have a kid that's hanging out with their friends, and they start talking about BJ this and BJ that, and your child is like, "Huh, what is that?" But they're masking. They don't want to look stupid, especially if they're a girl. And so, they don't ask about it. And then they may just toss that language out there in front of grandma, right? Because they don't get what that is.

And it's really kind of a safety issue because you also don't want them tossing that phrase around in front Uncle Creepy, right? When we educate our kids, when we have to set them up to ask us, or really, it's not about asking us, it's us communicating with them, then they're going to be way more likely. Because they can sometimes tell, this feels like a sexual thing, right? It feels like a bad thing. It feels swears, right? And then with that kind of thing, and you've got an impulsive kiddo who then finds out what it is and then likes to use that to get attention, which is hi-la-ri-ous, right? Then they can get in big trouble in other social circles. And any adolescent is like that. But with the delightful ADHDer brain, it's double trouble, right?

Gretchen: Yeah, and I can concur that bringing those things up in public with other people is hilarious to some, but not to all. As a former middle school teacher, I can tell you.

Rachel: Yeah, and parents react like there is such a range of how parents handle hearing something like that come out of their kid's mouth.

Amy: For sure. And then I'm saying all this, and then you're all thinking, "Well, hell no, I'm not going to tell my kid what that is. I'm going to tell my kid what a BJ is the night before middle school," right? Because you worry about that.

But we know, study after study — you don't need to study this anymore — when a kid is well-informed, they're safer. And so, you have to run the risk of your kid saying something inappropriate in front of someone, because at the end of the day, their health and their safety is your primary goal. And that's what sexuality education is. It's just about health and safety.

Gretchen: Yep. I imagine too, that for some neurodivergent kids, other challenges might be just like sensory stuff, like not wanting to talk about this stuff because of the sensory challenges they may have, and think about when you're talking about it.

Amy: Yeah, for sure. And it also sounds gross, right? So, like if you have a child, what's one of the things with people with ADHD and sexuality is they can be hypersensitive. And so, the thought of having someone touch them, kiss them, any of that can be really uncomfortable. Going through puberty for somebody that's hypersensitive can be very hard, getting hair on your body, your boobs hurting, let alone bleeding. Having random erections, right? All that can be really distressing, because A, they're out of control, and a lot of sensation happens at that time. Your bones can ache. All kinds of things are going on.

And if we look at sexuality as a whole, it always involves some kind of touch, right. So one of the other pieces about doing lots of sex education with kiddos like this is that they also can learn that there are lots of different ways to be sexual with someone. It can be really sexual and just holding someone's hand. And consent, right? Lots and lots and lots of consent. More consent communication with someone who is really sensitive to stuff is really important. And understanding that as a two-way street.

Gretchen: Let's go back a bit, and you mentioned this earlier about when you think it's the right time to start talking about sex. So, what is that exact age when parents should start this conversation? And then what is the very first thing they should talk about? Because although I know you keep bringing up BJ land, I don't think that's where you start.

Amy: No, no. Not unless you have to. And even then, you can back up the truck to it. Yeah, we don't stir. No, no BJs.

Gretchen: What age do we start, and what do we with?

Amy: So, honestly, you start from birth using the correct names for private body parts. But really getting down to business about how babies are made, which is the thing that gives everybody pause, that old penis going in the vagina thing, it should be five or so. The reason for that is, and I know people are like, "Oh my God, that's so young," but really, what you're talking about is reproduction. And when you say, penis and vagina, this is how a baby's made, this is how butter's made, for a kid that's under the age of seven or eight, it's just the same. It's just a process, right?

Rachel: It's just another word.

Amy: Yeah, just another word, right? But we bring a whole bunch of stuff to the party because we have our own experiences. We know the bigger, bigger world of this. And so, talking with a young kid and saying, you know, "This is how babies are made. It feels good to grown up bodies. It's not for kids. It's for later in life. You don't have to do this. It's a choice people make. Like framing it like that is important. That seed of pleasure, right? It feels good, should feel good. People want to do, they agree to do this, that kind of language. So, the baby-making thing should be out of the way by then.

But the other real kind of sex talks or sex communications is about bodies and boundaries. Especially for ADHDer kids who are impulsive, who are maybe going to struggle with the idea of boundaries, who aren't going to be so quick to get consent. And just a side note about consent, I officially don't use that word very much anymore. I say agreement. They agree. They agree to do this. You can agree to have someone give you a high five or a hug. They need to agree to. Because kids understand that. And I even, as a sex educator, I have to think about consent. What is that? Oh, yeah. There should be no barrier.

Rachel: Yeah.

Amy: There should be no barrier. So, body boundaries, practicing that with kids, ask first rule, helping them to know that they should ask first before they hug or touch someone. The other person should ask them first. And I love role play as an adult, like I think I should have been an actress.

Gretchen: Nice.

Amy: So, role playing with your kids, practicing, which is a common thing with ADHDer kids, right? You've got to practice stuff.

Gretchen: Yep.

Amy: And so, if you're practicing the body boundary conversation, as they get older, when they're learning more about sexuality, they're starting to have crushes, they're curious about bodies, they're maybe starting to feel good in their body on their own, like you have that language already in place, and it makes it a lot easier when you're talking about sexual consent or agreeing to have sex with someone.

Gretchen: You said, use the real names of body parts, and I feel like that's been ingrained in most parents by now, but we don't necessarily know why. What is the reasoning behind that?

Amy: Thank you for asking that question. So, it's not a no-brainer. People feel very weird about this whole topic. And so, people would rather use hoo-ha and front bottom and back bottom and call the vulva vagina, and all these things. So, the vulva is the exterior of the body. So, these are the only parts of our body that we have special names for. My nose is not my smeller. My ears are not my ear holes, right? And so, when we use those words to describe a normal, natural, healthy part of our body, we're sending a message. There's something special, weird, different, wrong, right? Down there. So, it's really important that they know.

It's also protective. So, if you are at a big event with a bunch of different people, you're having a big family meal, and everyone's sitting around the table, and your kid pipes up, "Mama, my vulva itches" at the top of their lungs, and the entire room goes silent, this is good news. Because if there is a predator there, and they hear your kids say vulva, they're going to be like, "Oh, someone's talking to that kid."

Gretchen: Right.

Amy: It's protective, and they have a right, they have a human right to know the names for all of their body parts.

Gretchen: Yeah, yeah. OK, I mean, I love that explanation. That makes a lot of sense.

Amy: Yeah. And I think one thing that I haven't said, which I think is such an important thing, it was such an important thing for me as I was learning all this. And it was when somebody said to me, you know, "This is really about preparing your kid, preparing your kids for this really huge, important, cool part of life, as opposed to trying to prevent them from doing it, which is not a thing."

Gretchen: Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: Right? Something's going to happen.

Gretchen: Yeah. And I remember having to remind myself when I was like, yeah, like reading about this and being like, "Of course I should start young. I've got to get those books. I got to start early." And following all the steps I thought I had to take, and I had, maybe one of the books I read or something reminded me like, "Yeah, you're going to have all these feelings and you're gonna think by sharing this, all of a sudden your kid's going to be sexual. But no, that is not where their brain is. That is not how it sounds to them. It's not like all of a sudden they're interested in it." They're just, they're not there, but we're there, and so, it's hard to like pull those two apart.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to separate out.

Rachel: So, are these one-and-done conversations, like once you've hit a topic, are you done with it now, or should we be bringing it back up in a week, in a month?

Rachel: Yeah, it's not one and done. I mean, I wish I could tell you that. But it is, especially with neurodivergent kids; it's a lot of repeating. And for everybody, it should always be really short and sweet, and revisiting and revisiting in different ways. So, saying the things.

With little kids, you're kind of up until eight or nine or so, the focus really is on bodies and reproduction, different kinds of families, being safe, boundaries, that kind of thing. And then as they get older, we got to get into the social stuff, right? So, once you feel like you've really gotten the nuts and bolts kind of stuff out of the way, you do need to revisit it because they forget.

And then really through into like 10, 11, 12 is when you really start focusing on the social stuff, the social skills. Like, what's happening in their friend group? What's all this crush talk? How do you know someone likes you? Like that kind of stuff. And then that continues into adolescence and teenager land because you have to start talking about like... Relationships, and agreement, and sexual agreement, and consent, and all the things. And the thing is, I'm saying all this stuff, and all y'all are thinking, "Never mind. It's too much." But here's the good news. It's just little snippets here and there. And there are tons of different tools, right? Books, there's videos.

And then, you know, your job is you are in charge of this. You cannot wait for your kids to ask you questions. Milo was never going to ask me what a BJ is. He was never gonna ask me about oral sex is, not ever. It's my job. It's our job. It's your job to bring the stuff up and to be uncomfortable, which is fine. No one's going to die.

Rachel: Are you sure? I have a question that's sort of along these lines. So, if a kid asks about any of these topics before you've had the conversation, is that a fail? Have you failed? Have you dropped the ball? Have you dropped the sex talk ball?

Amy: No, they're asking you, so it's important to them and something is up, right? So, that tells you, that gives you a big piece of information when they come and ask you something and you're like, "What is this sex thing? Do people stick their dicks in somebody else's cooch" or whatever?

Rachel: Right, exactly like it's like in some cases, it's just the fact that perhaps they've heard it from someone else before it would have been time.

Amy: Yeah. So, the fail is if you say, "Oof, oh, well, where do you hear that? You're too young." Any kind of like, "What are you saying to me? How dare you?" Any kind like "What the hell?" reaction, that's a fail. It's a great opportunity, because if your kid comes to you with a question, you should sing like Hallelujah and be like, "Hey, thanks for telling me. I don't quite know how to answer that. Let me think about it, and I'll get back to you later today." And then you keep that child away from every device. I'm not kidding.

Gretchen: Because they'll search for the answer on their own.

Amy: They sure will. Yeah, no, the fail is missing the opportunity. It is never too late to start. One of the nice things about talking with older kids is that you don't have to be careful. By the time they're 11 or so, just gloves off. Just say it all. Use all the words. Don't worry about hurting them. The world is going to hurt them.

And with ADHDers, there are some issues because of the wiring. And they tend to be hypersexual, which means they may have more partners. They may have a more varied sex life. They are impulsive, less likely to use birth control, like a lot more trouble because of the trouble tracking stuff.

So, the way you help your child with that is to talk with them. And for people with penises, problematic porn use, they use it for stress. It's so weird to me, they use it for stress relief. Kids think when they see porn, that's how you do sex. If you've got a kid that's really literal and they want to have a romantic relationship, they think porn starts in the middle of God knows what. It starts in the middle, and they think that's normal. They think that how you'd do it.

So, if you're in the door, as soon as you can be like, "Hey, this is not normal. It's not safe. Nobody does that. Those people are actors. Nobody's dick's that big. Nobody's boobs look like that. Nobody makes those noises. That's not real sex. They're acting." Get in the door early with that. It helps. It helps.

But for ADHDers, their experience of sexuality can be really different, and it can be more problematic. I mean, just think about the brain, right? They're more risky, just generally more risky. Just know that it's data, right, like, OK, I want my kid to be healthy and successful and have good relationships and feel good about themselves, right? That's the goal. And talking about sexuality and relationships is key to raising a whole healthy, happy human.

Gretchen: So, you talked about how obviously you said around five is when you're starting the conversation, and you kind of start with sex as reproduction to like lay that out. That's what it can, one purpose, right? So, then when do you start talking about sex as pleasure, and how in the world do you start talking about that?

Amy: Yeah, that's such a good question. The pleasure thing, the reproductive thing, is like, eh, no problem, right?

Gretchen: It's so easy, right, it's science.

Amy: It's science! Yeah, it's science. So, you can talk about pleasure and reproduction at the same time. So, you could say, "This feels really good to their grown-up bodies. And sometimes people just do this because it feels good. It's something they want to do together." And you can talk about it's how they show they love each other. It's a part of being in a romantic relationship, like married or boyfriend, girlfriend. So, you lay it out there in the beginning. And then, as you're talking about families and relationships and bodies, you can talk about how these parts of our bodies feel really good. It's cool to touch your own clitoris or your own penis.

You can say, "It's called masturbation. That's totally a great thing to do, and as you get older, you might want to do sexual things with somebody else because really, most of the time when people are together and doing something sexual or having sex, it's because it just feels good. They don't want to make babies, and if you're you know, two guys or two gals, there's no baby-making. You know, people can do things together that are sexual that feel good. But it's for later in life. It's something they agree to do. It's not something everybody wants or likes to do," right?

So, you have to make sure they understand that people do it because it feels good. And then the other thing is that every time you talk about penis and vagina sex, you always say condom. Condoms, people use condoms. Talking about birth control, they don't want to get pregnant. The person has a penis, they use a condom, right? You want to really put that we plan our pregnancies in our family.

Gretchen: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah.

Amy: We plan our pregnancies. So, how are you going to talk with your, if you got a son, how you talk with him about that, right? And be clear. We were really clear with Milo. I was like, "So, here's the deal. If somebody gets pregnant on your watch, then you're in. You're in for whatever that looks like. They want to have an abortion, and you don't want that to happen. Not your body, not your choice. If they want to parent, guess what? You get to be a parent," right? And so, here are the condoms. And make sure that your partner is using birth control. Go to the appointments with them. Make sure that they've got what they need so this isn't going to happen, and of course, it happens. Everybody does everything, and somebody gets knocked up.

Gretchen: Yeah, I know.

Amy: Anyway, there's so much. There's always so much, but I just want to kind of circle back to one thing about neurodivergent kids. So, sometimes, because I know you're so harried and your lives are crazy and your kids have different support needs, this is something that can really backburn her. And I get that. And I totally get that, so I just want to say this. Anything you can do to move the needle, is that a sports analogy? I'm terrible. Anything you could do to the move the need like to make some kind of effort, is going to be helpful to your kid.

That's the other thing we know, any attempt you make. And then with neurodivergent kids, oftentimes what happens is they get to 8, 9, 10, and you haven't done it yet. Actually, don't recommend this typically, but for neurodivergent kids, start with puberty. Get puberty books. Use that as your entrée, because that's going to do something to them. Their bodies are going to change, especially if they're going to bleed. They need to know that could happen before it happens.

So, using that, like your body's going to change, and this is why, so a backtrack. You can do that for neurotypical kids as well. But because the potential trouble with the body changes is higher than with a neurotypical kid, I just, you have permission to do that. But honestly, start anywhere. Like just start anywhere and make it small. No one's going die.

Gretchen: Yeah, I mean, you're right, though. I can see how, yes, when you are dealing with school challenges, IEPs, all this other stuff, like, why am I going to put time to do this? Like, it doesn't seem worth it right now. But you're saying just little chunks here and there to get started.

Amy: And the boundary thing, too, right? If you've got a kid that is an impulsive toucher, and they are an impulsive talker, and like, "Oh my God, you've huge boobs," right? And you're like, "Oh my God." And that happens at school, and then he's a sexual harasser because he blurted about boobs. That is not sexual harassment from a neurodivergent person who's 12. That is not sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is someone who is neurotypical and 12 and says, "You've got big boobs." They know what they are doing on some level. Yeah, I get very infuriated about what happens to your beautiful children when things like this happen. It's not fair, right? It's not fair. And yeah, that's not OK. I'm not excusing it. That's not OK. And conversations need to be had. But that child is not a predator.

Gretchen: Right.

Rachel: And that is exactly my next question, which is, how do we help them understand what's appropriate and what's inappropriate?

Amy: That's a tough one. I think that lots of conversations, keeping it really simple, using social stories, watching movies and videos where there's something that happens, and you can say, "I know I'm super annoying right now, but I'm going to pause this, because I want you to see how that happened. I know sometimes they have trouble reading facial expressions. You see how their body is. Do you see their face? This is why." So, being really explicit. You know, and don't be afraid to just try. Don't be afraid to just try. It's not going to hurt them. And you might be weird. You can just say, "I'm going to be weird, sorry."

Gretchen: Yeah, cringe.

Amy: Hello, get ready. Yeah, I mean, I just think that we make a huge deal out of this thing.

Rachel: And then that's why it's a huge deal.

Amy: Right, and it just makes me really frustrated because we get so hyperfocused on things like academics.

Gretchen: Right.

Amy: Right? Like calculus. I don't know what that is.

Gretchen: I'm not using it for sure in my daily life.

Gretchen: I'm not using it. I'm not using it, and your kid's not going to use it. But in your daily life, you're going to use your like, you're gonna be in relationships. Your kids are going to have sexual feelings, they're going to have crushes, they're going to date, they are going to be romantic. And that's one of the big myths about neurodivergent people is that they're not interested, and that is absolutely not true.

Gretchen: Of course, yeah.

Amy: Absolutely not true, just looks different. Just looks different.

Gretchen: So, I guess we just add that, I feel like it's just like life skills, right? There are certain life skills that you need to teach your kid: finances, ride a bike, and swim, so they don't get hurt. Like this is like on that list, right?

Amy: Yeah, eat something other than white food, right? Yeah, it's on that list.

Rachel: So, what if, not that this has ever happened to me, our kid refuses to talk about any of this with us. They are just not doing it, not talking about it. Even if you're driving in the car so that you don't have to worry about eye contact, you're doing all the things, right? Do we just like keep talking and just like, "Well, I'm gonna talk."

Amy: OK, so yes, you keep at it, because they're not in charge. But there's some things you can do. So, first of all, you can tell them, you know, I get that this is super annoying and you're not really interested. But trust me when I tell you, it is really great to be the smartest kid in your friend group when it comes to this stuff.

Kids are really stupid about it, and I don't want you to be stupid about it. So, we're going to talk about it. I'm going to talk about whether you want to hear it or not. Do that. You can set your timer, say "I need three minutes. You don't have to respond," and you say your thing, you need to be ready, say your thing, and then when you get done, you always say, "What do you think?" Even though you said you don't have to respond, it doesn't mean you don't give them the opportunity. Texting, writing notes.

There's a really great book, it's called "You Know, Sex" by Cory Silverberg. It's graphic novel style, it's huge. And so, one of the parents, I do individual consultations, and she's got a neurodivergent kid, and what we talked about was like, "How do I get this information into him?" And I said, "Well, just tear out the section on masturbation and stick it on his bed. So it's not overwhelming," right?

Rachel: Yeah.

Amy: And so, you can chunk it out like that. But the bottom line is this is your job, and you need to do everything you can. And you can just say, "I know you don't like this. I don't care. Someday you're going to appreciate me." I'm also not above rewarding. Some people call that bribing. I'm not above rewarding. Like, "Hey, you know what? Let's spend 10 minutes reading, looking at this book, or watching these couple of videos. And then afterwards, let's go get ice cream."

Gretchen: Right.

Amy: I don't care. I don't care. This is not calculus. Screw calculus. This is life. This is life. Just do it.

Gretchen: Yeah.

Amy: It makes all the tools in the toolbox. All the tools in the toolbox. And when you get going, you'll feel better.

Gretchen: Yeah.

Amy: You'll feel better. You know you need to do this, right?

Gretchen: Yeah, it weighs in your head, and you do it. And even like you said, if you just do the talking and they don't say anything, like how many times as parents have we heard our kids repeat back something we thought they never actually heard from us? They weren't listening, and then you hear them tell their friend, "Well, if you do this, blah, blah blah," and I'm like, "I taught you that, but you never said that was a good idea, but apparently you think it is one."

Amy: Yeah, yeah, and again, with this, it's social cred, right? There's so much social cred when your kid's like, "Yeah, that is not what that means."

Gretchen: Right. Well, this has been really, really fun and informative. And thank you so much for just being so honest with all your answers. It's been great.

Rachel: Yeah, thank you so much.

Amy: My total pleasure and thank you for trusting me with your people.

Gretchen: Amy's website is birdsandbeesandkids.com. Check it out.

Rachel: Thanks so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at init@understood.org.

Gretchen: And check out the show notes for this episode, where we have more resources and links to anything we mentioned.

Rachel: This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you'd like to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

Gretchen: "In It" is produced and edited by Julie Subrin with additional production support from Cody Nelson and Samiah Adams. Justin D. Wright mixes the show, and Mike Errico wrote our theme music. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director.

Rachel: From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for listening.

Gretchen: And thanks for always being in it with us.