How ERGs transform culture and build empathy (Conversations from Davos)

At the Davos Neurodiversity Summit, one message stood out: The future of work will be shaped by empathy, psychological safety, and better systems. Not just better intentions. 

In this conversation, Dr. Maureen Dunne talks with Tristan Lavender, a globally recognized voice on neurodiversity at work, to explore what that looks like in practice. 

As the founder of a global neurodiversity employee resource group for a multinational organization, Tristan advocates for proactively building employee resources and designing approaches to AI and leadership cultures that work for different minds.

Maureen Dunne: Welcome to "Conversations from Davos," a special season of "Minds at Work," brought to you by Understood.org and the "Davos Neurodiversity Summit." Here, we're unpacking the most important themes from this year's summit.

I'm Maureen Dunne. I'm a cognitive scientist, an author, and the founder of the "Davos Neurodiversity Summit." Today, I'm delighted to have Tristan Lavender as my guest. Tristan has a background in cognitive psychology and has spent most of his career working in professional communications for international organizations.

And he came across my radar initially after he founded an employee — led neurodiversity network within a multinational company. Together with leaders, HR teams, and neurodivergent colleagues, they work to create a more inclusive culture.

And today, he speaks on neurodiversity at events around the world, including at this year's summit. And he says he's driven by a single mission: to help create workplaces where every mind can thrive. Tristan, welcome to the podcast.

Tristan Lavender: Thank you so much for having me, Maureen.

Maureen: So, Tristan, for those who may not know your journey, could you share a little bit about your background and about how you ended up in the neurodiversity space?

Tristan: Yes, absolutely. So, for me, this mission that you just described of creating more neuro — inclusive workplaces is deeply personal because I am neurodivergent myself. That is something that I discovered in my early 20s when I had just graduated from university.

I received an autism diagnosis, which helped me make sense of a lot of the things that I had always struggled with. But at the same time, when I received that diagnosis, it was also a huge shock and burden for me because I was always worried that if other people would find out that I'm autistic, they would think less of me.

So, that is why actually for the next 16 years, I never felt comfortable sharing this with anyone, and I never brought it up at work. It was only four years ago that I finally arrived at that stage in my life that I felt more comfortable opening up about my autism.

And that's when I realized just how many neurodivergent people in the corporate world are still struggling in silence. And I essentially wanted to play my tiny part in changing that by normalizing conversations about neurodiversity. And for me, that was really the starting point.

Maureen: And I have to say, it's just been really meaningful for me to work with you over the past few months, especially on the segment about empathy and neuro — inclusive leadership. And I remember being just really excited about the perspective you'd bring when we first talked about you joining us in Davos. I'm curious, what did that experience feel like from your perspective?

Tristan: Well, first of all, thanks again for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this important event. I think the overriding feeling for me is one of hope. Hope for the future that there's now more space to have these discussions, including in very high — profile environments like Davos.

Because I grew up feeling like there wasn't really a place for me in the world. So, seeing that we now have these spaces where we can just openly talk about these things with each other, I think that's a huge sign of societal progress in itself.

Especially the fact that these conversations are now happening in an environment like Davos. I think it means that it also signals to leaders, it signals to businesses that this is not some sort of obscure niche topic, but this should really be front and center in how organizations think about the future of work.

How they think about technological developments like the rise of AI. Neurodiversity really needs to be, I think, a central consideration in all of that.

04:54 The importance of connecting with senior leadership to drive institutional change.

Maureen: That's beautifully put. And I know you've had a lot of experience with starting a neurodiversity ERG or employee resource group, right, in a large company. And really that's no small undertaking, from what I understand. And I'm just really curious if you can reflect a little bit on what motivated you at first to push for that.

Tristan: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a huge part of my life over the past few years. And for me, I think it started with this feeling of being alone. I think that was for me the feeling that haunted me for so many years throughout my career because I never felt comfortable discussing my difference with others.

I always felt like I was the only one struggling with certain things. So, for me, creating this employee resource group was a way of making others feel less alone by creating a safe space for them where they could connect, where they could learn from each other, and find a sense of belonging.

A sense of belonging that many of us who are neurodivergent have never really experienced in our lives. So, to be able to create that kind of space in an organization is, I think, incredibly valuable. And by bringing people together, it also creates an opportunity to then educate the wider organization about neurodiversity.

And help others understand what they can do in their daily behaviors to be more understanding and supportive of their neurodivergent colleagues.

Maureen: I could imagine that this journey wasn't without its bumps, right? You know, when you start anything new, it's uncharted territory. You're figuring it out, you're problem solving, you're trying to make the world better, you're trying to do things, but it's new. What do you think you learned along the way here in this journey?

Tristan: I think one thing that I had to learn as a neurodivergent individual is that every neurodivergent person's experience is unique. And this is something that — it may sound a bit obvious — but I didn't fully realize that when I started this ERG. Because I only knew a few autistic colleagues at work, but not a lot.

So, my view of what it means to be autistic, for example, was still fairly limited. And now that I've spoken with hundreds of colleagues who are autistic or have other forms of neurodivergence like ADHD, dyslexia, etc., I've come to realize that my initial views of what it means to have a certain label were very limited.

And that these labels only tell you so much about a person. So, for me, that has been a very important personal learning. What I've also learned is just how important it is to involve senior leadership in this journey as an employee resource group, because they ultimately hold the key to making actual improvements to the day — to — day work environment and work design.

So, just to give you one practical example, we've had conversations with senior leaders about how we can create more quiet spaces in our offices to create a more sensory — friendly environment for our colleagues who need these quiet spaces.

You really need to have these conversations with people at senior leadership levels if you ultimately want to drive change as an employee resource group. And that takes time, because you need to invest in these relationships with leaders, you need to gain buy — in over time. But that has really been critical to our success and impact over the years.

Maureen: I just wanted to bring up a little bit, too, because I know at the summit we talked a lot about psychological safety. And so, I think given your expertise, I'm curious: how does the formation of ERGs — you know, do you think that has an impact on organizational culture to help neurodivergent employees feel that sense of support and psychological safety?

Tristan: I think it's a great question, and I cannot emphasize enough myself how critical psychological safety is as a foundation. Because my personal story that I shared with you at the beginning of our conversation, that's definitely not an exception. I hear from so many neurodivergent people that they just don't feel comfortable being open about who they are.

So, I think that really needs to be priority number one: to create that safety. And to answer your question, I think an ERG can indeed help shape that psychological safety in multiple ways. First of all, an ERG in itself creates a safe space for people, some of whom may not be ready yet, for example, to have a conversation with their coworkers or with their manager.

Being part of an ERG meeting with other neurodivergent people can be a first step for them in their journey of accepting themselves, finding their language and the courage to start discussing their neurodivergence with others. But I think an ERG can also play a very important role in equipping managers with the insights and the understanding that they need to create psychological safety in their teams.

This is also what I hear from a lot of managers. Many of them obviously want to do the right thing for their team, including any potential neurodivergent team members, but they may also experience a certain level of anxiety about potentially getting it wrong, especially these days when there's so much sensitivity around labels.

So, I think an ERG can also really — and that is what we have done with our ERG — invest in training development for managers to help them feel more confident navigating this and thereby create the psychological safety that people in their team need to start having more open conversations about their needs and differences.

10:18 THow empathy is the cornerstone of inclusive leadership and effective team collaboration.

Maureen: Of course, Tristan, I had the absolute pleasure of speaking with you at this year's summit for the panel discussions that we had on the importance of empathy in the age of AI. How did empathy become really central to your understanding of what makes for effective leadership?

Tristan: When I think about leadership, for me — I know that there are a million definitions of leadership — but for me it's all about empowering another person to become the best version of themselves. And I think that requires empathy because it means you need to understand that person's strengths, you need to understand what might be challenging for them, and you also need to understand what they need to thrive.

And that requires also certain humility, I think, because it can be very tempting to assume that what works for you as an individual will work for others as well, while that is often not the case. So, you need to make an active effort to ask questions, to really understand that other human being, and for me that all comes down to empathy.

So, I think that's really a critical part of what it means to be an effective and an inclusive leader.

Maureen: And can you give a specific example of what that might look like in action?

Tristan: Yes. Let's say you have, for example, someone in your team who tends to be quiet in meetings. Now, there are different ways of navigating that. One way of addressing it would be to tell that person, "Oh, you need to be a bit more visible," or as a manager, you might feel tempted to put that person on the spot in meetings. That is very understandable.

But I think the empathetic thing to do in this specific context would be to instead have a conversation with that individual to better understand what would help them contribute more fully. And it could be, for example, that that individual for whatever reason might feel more comfortable expressing themselves in writing.

And maybe what you could do as a manager, for example, is — let's say you're having a meeting with the team to discuss, to brainstorm solutions for a certain problem — rather than expecting everyone, including that specific individual, to come up with ideas on the spot, maybe you could create a shared document ahead of the brainstorm session.

Allowing that individual and others in the team to contribute ideas in writing in their own time and space. So, then you're working with that person's strengths, and you are accommodating their needs, which means that that person gets to contribute more fully. But you as a manager also benefit because you're going to get better ideas from that person, which benefits the team as well.

13:21 The potential for AI to serve as an empathetic coach in professional settings.

Maureen: I agree with you. And I'd like to shift gears a little bit because I know some of the conversations we've had in the past, we've talked about the level of anxiety that AI could create if it's not designed properly for some people. There's this assumption that AI in general could create more distance between people at work.

And I know at the summit, you and others on our panel made a compelling case that it might actually bring us closer — obviously there's a lot of nuance there — but that it could deepen empathy rather than dilute it if we are thoughtful about it, if we design these systems well. And I'd like to ask you, where does the optimism come from for you?

Tristan: I wouldn't necessarily call myself an optimist, not a pessimist either, but I think I see both the opportunity and the risk. So, I'll try to offer a balanced perspective. Maybe starting with where I can see AI be a very helpful tool in strengthening empathy between people, especially as it relates to neurodiversity in teams.

I think what I have seen also through my work with our employee resource group and speaking with a lot of neurodivergent colleagues who are using AI to support them, is that where many of them find it very helpful as a tool that helps build empathy, is when they use it as a coach.

And by that, I mean using AI as a way of better understanding yourself and better understanding your colleagues and learning how to communicate more effectively with others whose minds may work very differently from yours.

So, just to give you one practical example, I spoke to an autistic colleague who struggles sometimes with getting the tone of his emails right. This is a very smart and kind person who always means well, but like many autistic people, he can sometimes be quite direct in his wording, and that hasn't always landed well with colleagues.

So, he is now using AI as a coach to guide him when he's writing his emails so that he may sometimes, for example, soften some of the wording so that his feedback lands better with colleagues. I do think that there is also a risk or a pitfall that we should be aware of, and maybe building on this specific example, there's a risk that we start outsourcing our empathy and that we come to rely on AI as a crutch, which I think is tricky.

Because ultimately, empathy also relies on just navigating the inherent human messiness of communicating with another human being who is different from you. And I think we also need to, as humans, we need to learn from our mistakes. When I look back on my younger years as an autistic person, I could also be very blunt and direct in my communication.

So, I can recall many painful instances where that understandably caused people to feel hurt or confused by my response. And that helped me ultimately become a better human being and a better communicator by learning from those situations. So, I think there's a balance there to be found in using AI and other tools to strengthen our own empathetic muscle.

But ultimately, I think we still need to also just engage with the world around us and experience the friction that comes with any kind of human interaction.

Maureen: That's a great point. And following on from that point, as AI tools become part of really the everyday workflow, what do you think leaders should be paying most attention to if the goal is to ensure that those tools don't unintentionally undermine neuro — inclusive culture?

Tristan: Reflecting on everything we've discussed about AI, I think leaders have a very important role to play again in creating that psychological safety for people to experiment with AI and to learn. So, I think that is where leaders really have an important role to play.

Because I think what I see and hear, for example, from some not just neurodivergent colleagues but colleagues in general, is that sometimes using AI to support you with a specific task can also come with a certain level of shame because it can unintentionally signal to colleagues like, "Are you not capable of doing this yourself?"

So, for example, a dyslexic person who benefits greatly from using AI to feel more confident in their writing, they shouldn't feel any shame or guilt in using AI if that is a tool that supports them. And that is where leaders, I think, need to signal very clearly like, "This is a new tool. Let's all figure out how we can benefit from it." So, that is one.

18:18 The potential for technology to accelerate workplace burnout and pressure.

Secondly, I do think — again, I'll always want to present a balanced point of view — that leaders also need to be mindful of how certain uses of AI could have unintentional negative consequences that could harm certain parts of their workforce. Again, just to give you a very practical example, and there's actually research that confirms this.

What many — not all, but what many neurodivergent people already struggle with at work — even if we sort of take AI out of the equation for a moment — is that work over the past decades has been speeding up. Not everyone does work well when they feel like they are constantly under pressure to do everything very quickly and multitask.

And respond to every message and ping that they receive in the moment. There are a lot of people, especially neurodivergent people, who may need a bit more time to process things, to think, to reflect. And this is where AI, for example, could maybe unintentionally accelerate this existing trend of just speeding everything up, which may make it even harder for some neurodivergent people to keep up.

And this research that I just mentioned, this was not about neurodivergent people specifically, but it was research that was done in a company that started adopting AI. And the researchers actually found that rather than reducing the workload and people feeling less busy, it only intensified feelings of being constantly busy, being always on.

So, I think it is also important to think through these human consequences and how that is not guaranteed to be positive. It could also have negative consequences, I think, that we need to be very mindful of.

Maureen: It's a great point. And I think we need to find leaders to come together at the table across sectors to have these proactive conversations and find a framework where we minimize the potential problems and we at least understand all the variables. So, I guess this is part of this conversation: is how do we involve all of the stakeholders in these conversations?

How do we proactively be talking about the risks and the responsibilities and the potential to unlock progress? And I think so many leaders right now are unclear. Things are so uncertain, and things are changing so fast, and it's more about us all working together and collaborating and developing a roadmap that's going to work for everyone.

Tristan: Yeah, and maybe to bring it full circle and link it back to the topic of employee resource groups and how they can play a critical role also in helping leaders better understand part of their workforce. I think also in these discussions about AI and how to implement AI in a way that benefits the workforce while avoiding some of these potential unintended consequences, have those conversations with your people.

Tap into these employee resource groups, speak with people to understand how they are already using AI, how they see it benefiting them, but also where they have potential concerns or risks. Because this is all about change management, and that really requires deeply understanding your people and bringing them along on the journey, I think.

And that really starts with listening. And I think that is ultimately still a deeply human act, like me just taking a moment out of my busy day to understand what you need, Maureen, to thrive in your work. I mean, that is just a human act of care.

And I think we shouldn't lose sight of that also as we talk about AI and technology. Yes, that can be a helpful supporting tool, but ultimately, it is still a human act of care and curiosity. I think that is the foundation of everything that we've discussed.

Maureen: That's a great way to put it. And thank you so much for joining this conversation. I really valued your perspective and your contribution.

Tristan: Thank you so much, Maureen.

Nathan Friedman: You've been listening to "Conversations from Davos," a special season of "Minds at Work," hosted by Dr. Maureen Dunne and brought to you by Understood.org and the "Davos Neurodiversity Summit." If you want to know more about our guest today, please check out the show notes.

For those looking for resources to better advocate for themselves and others at work, visit understood.org/work. And to learn more about the summit and Dr. Maureen Dunne, visit DavosNeurodiversitySummit.com.

"Minds at Work" is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences, like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to support our work, please donate at understood.org/give.

This show is produced by Julie Subrin, Alison Hochlander, Max MacKenzie, and me, Nathan Freeman. The show is mixed by Justin D. Wright. Briana Berry is our production director, and Laura Key is our executive director.

"Conversations from Davos" was produced in collaboration with the "Davos Neurodiversity Summit." Each year, alongside the "World Economic Forum," leaders gather at DNS to explore how empathy and human — centered design can reshape work, education, and our key institutions. To support DNS 2027, go to DavosNeurodiversitySummit.com.

Please join us next time. We'll continue unpacking the most important themes from this year's summit to shape a more inclusive and creative future. And thank you so much for listening.