Neurodiversity is a growth strategy (with Valeria Piaggio from Kantar)

In this episode of Minds at Work, Nathan welcomes Valeria Piaggio, Global Head of Inclusive Growth at Kantar, the world’s leading data, insights, and consulting company, to talk about why neurodivergent consumers matter more than ever.

They discuss new research from Kantar and Understood.org that challenges the myth that neurodiversity is a niche issue — in fact, it’s a fast-growing, high-impact segment, especially among younger consumers. Valeria explains how brands can better serve and engage this growing population by rethinking research, representation, and inclusive design. And why doing so drives business growth.

(05:58) Kantar’s latest research on neurodivergent consumers

(14:14) “If you’re not including neurodivergent voices in your research, you’re already behind.”

(19:33) What Google gets right about inclusion

(25:24) “The shift towards being more effective is to talk less and do more.”

We love hearing from our listeners! Email us at podcast@understood.org

Nathan: Welcome to "Minds at Work," the podcast for leaders who embrace neurodiversity in business. I'm your host, Nathan Friedman, co-president and chief marketing officer of Understood.org, the leading nonprofit focused on helping those who learn and think differently thrive. Each week, we're here exploring how neurodiversity sparks innovation and how we as leaders across industries can create a more inclusive future for all. 

Today, I'm delighted to be speaking with Valeria Piaggio. She is the global head for inclusive growth in the sustainable transformation practice at Kantar. Kantar is a global data, insights, and consulting company that provides market research and insights to help businesses understand people and inspire growth. Valeria and I met a few years ago, and since have had the pleasure of collaborating on some really important initiatives. Valeria, welcome. It's great to be talking with you again. 

Valeria: Thank you for having me, Nathan. A pleasure being here. 

Nathan: To get us started, we'd love to learn more about your role and what personally drew yo,u and what drew you professionally to focus on inclusive marketing. 

Valeria: Certainly. Well, it's been a long journey. It started decades ago. I'm not going to tell how many, but it's a combination of my work in strategic planning, combined with my cultural expertise. I am a Latina, I'm an immigrant, and I live in one of the most diverse countries on earth, the U.S. So, these professional and personal experiences led me to uncover different areas of inclusion and to keep learning. 

Personally, I am now an advocate for neurodiversity because of those personal experiences. I have a son who was born female and who, for years, was misdiagnosed. Luckily, at 19, we finally got a diagnosis. He is autistic, has ADD, and now the world makes a little more sense. So, it is that need to advocate for people like him that is pushing me to bring awareness, bring more understanding, more empathy, and hopefully shape the world for people like him and so many others that are often misunderstood and therefore excluded. So, I'm just being a good mom. 

Nathan: Yeah. But I think the work you're doing is so important. And I think you just listed off so many different ways in which people identify. And that intersectionality is a lot of what you and Kantar and Understood do in our work, right? Understanding human truths, understanding via research of consumer behavior. You know, and I think if you go back a couple years ago, you know, we know each other in part because of the partnership we have, and we did some research on neurodivergent consumers. 

But before we get into some of that work, I'm wondering where you see the research landscape going when it comes to the concept of intersectionality?

Valeria: You know, for years now, I've been saying that there is no average consumer, no average person. And our research, no matter what we are uncovering, points in that direction, that pretty much everyone is intersectional, that all these different dimensions that make our very complex and unique identities create uniqueness and need to be understood in that context. So, I'm very grateful for the partnership Kantar has with Understood, that is now two years long, because since partnering, we were able to tap into that other dimension, people's brilliant brains and how each of them is different and start identifying all these people in our research. 

I have to say we have changed the way we ask about people's identity when it comes to neurodiversity because in the past, it was just one more within the disabilities, and not everyone feels neurodiversity is a disability. So, we were missing many important insights about who people are and what they need from the business they are working for, the brands they are engaging with, the media they are enjoying. So, it is putting us in a better position to serve a growing and a very diverse segment of the population. 

Nathan: Yeah, and we saw a lot of this through the research. How people view themselves also comes across very clearly on social. We often hear the term neurospicy, or "It's my superpower." Everybody views it differently. So, let's talk about actually the research for a little bit. And I know together we looked at neurodivergent consumers from both a global and US perspective. Can you talk a bit about the findings and the spotlight on neurodivergent Americans? What are some of the key findings that stood out to you from the research? 

Valeria: One of the most important things is that first, this research now exists, and many of the people doing the work are neodivergent themselves, so kudos to that team. Creating this amazing piece of research and that leads to, again, more understanding. And one of the things that are very telling is how big this segment is, busting the first myth that many companies have that this is a niche, that this is not a consumer segment worth pursuing. So just in the US, we are talking about 60 million people, which is 18% of the general population. But when we look at Gen Zers, we are talking about 29%. 

And that is not a small number of these growing, developing, and magnificent generation. So, I think that is one of the first things that we need to call out. How big this group is, and it is driven by growing awareness, less stigma, thanks to the work of organizations like Understood that are making it possible for people to explore who they are, identify how unique their brain is, and are seeking diagnosis, and in some cases, an education that aligns with how they think and how they learn and that's why we at Kantar talk about this is a high growth population and it's high growth because of the size of the population. 

But also for many other things, which leads us to the second important finding in our study, which is that this is a very driven community of neurodivergent individuals are contributing to the economy on par with the rest of the population. They are educated, they have bachelor's degrees, they are employed. So, this is a group that is contributing, it's of high value, and businesses need to pay attention. So that's the second finding that I think we need to almost shout because of the misunderstanding. That we're seeing in social conversations. 

The next point I think has to do with what you pointed out, Nathan, which has to do with the intersectionality of this group. What we found is that half of LGBTQ plus adults, for example, identify as neurodivergent, that this is a group that is also very diverse from a race and ethnic perspective. To give you a sense, 20% of Hispanics identify as neurodivergent, similar to the white population. So, that is also quite telling in terms of what do we need to do as business leaders to better understand how to serve this population. 

Nathan: In something earlier you mentioned at the top, 29% of Gen Z identifies as neurodivergent. I think we've seen studies as well that have that way higher. And I think the opportunity here, when you look at the sizable population and the intersectionality, is that this affects everybody. It doesn't affect just one group. And there's an advantage that companies and brands can have by engaging with the neurodivergent audience more authentically. From one perspective, we'd love to hear what you think about CMOs and brand leaders who are in the potential opportunities that exist for them to engage this market. 

Valeria: I believe the opportunity is huge. First, because, as you pointed out, it crosses over to different populations. It is not something that is primarily impacting a group. So, it is something that it's a universal need. It is it's not about a particular country. It is a global issue. So the opportunity is there to connect, engage, bring awareness and better serve this population. And then thinking about the principle of universal design and universal engagement. When you improve the brand experience of a neurodivergent consumer, you are, by default, making it better for everyone else. Whether that is someone who is a senior or has a disability, or no matter what, it creates better experiences for everyone. So the commercial, the business case is there. And it is also one that not many brands have capitalized. 

Nathan: Really? 

Valeria: I have to say there's a different sheeter. Yeah, we look at, you know at Kantar we do a lot of advertising testing and we have a huge database it's called Link, over close to 30,000 spots from various advertisers and we always look at what type of representation, what is the visibility of different groups and I have to say that this is a group that's almost invisible. There is an opportunity to create salience differentiation by engaging a population that most other marketers overlook. 

Nathan: Yes. And I think that the engagement not only is with the user, consumer, or customer, depending on how businesses categorize their audiences, but it can potentially start internally, right? We've seen neurodivergent thinkers have the ability to be more creative. We've seen them have the ability to solve more complex problems. We see the abilities to really bring, you know, together unique perspectives that drive outcomes. I think for a CMO, you can harness that, whether it be through your agency or whether that be internally, to create stronger outcomes from the work. 

More importantly, I think audiences have loyalty to brands that engage with them authentically, right? And I think we've seen that play out in a variety of fields. Have you been talking to CMOs about this type of opportunity? And if so, how has that been received? 

Valeria: In general, they are receptive. They do understand the business opportunity here, as well as the social responsibility of brands to engage with these populations, especially because we go to them with strong data. And I can share a few of those numbers in case someone is still not convinced. 

Nathan: I mean, look, I think we live in a world where we need people to be convinced, and sometimes they need more data, so let's share it. 

Valeria: Yeah, so one of the things we looked in this study we did together was around, you know, what are the expectations of neurodivergent consumers and whether they feel that brands are doing a good job with, you know, talking to them. And unfortunately, we find that 70% of them, 7-0, that's, you heard correctly, are frustrated by brands that treat them as an afterthought. And when it comes to advertising representation, apparently, advertisers need to do a better job because 66% of them say that not enough brands are doing a good job in representing people like them. So, it's a vast majority that feels frustration, feels ignored, misrepresented. So, we need to do better.

Nathan: And this is hurting brands' top line, right? If you think about engaging authentically and people remaining loyal to brands, this is a revenue opportunity. It is a retention opportunity. It's a loyalty opportunity across the board. When you see brands engaging, whether it be with neurodivergent audiences or others, do you often see missed opportunities for brands to authentically engage? 

Valeria: I do. Yes. And sometimes starts at inception point by excluding these populations from the research itself and from the strategic planning process. When you don't have strong human insight, you are already off to a bad start. So, I think, you know, what we were talking about at the beginning about identifying this community, these consumers in the research itself to gather meaningful insight, I think is one of the first missteps I have seen. So, start with including them in the research and providing an environment where they can actually voice their perspectives, because that's the other thing. If you don't have inclusive research practices, chances are you're not going to learn much. 

The second thing has to do with the making broad assumptions about this group. And this is something we have seen with other segments of the population as well, grouping everyone and making, depicting one person as the token for an entire community. So, those are often generalizations that don't speak to anyone and lack authenticity. 

I know it's hard to do because especially when we're talking about marketing, about advertising, depicting people in 30 seconds is a challenge, but you need to assume that responsibility and make sure that you are communicating in a way that resonates and that sometimes entails making sure that you have the people who are part of the community are part of the creative team. So, it's about making sure that throughout the process, the creative process, you are including people and letting them tell their story.

Nathan: Something else the survey found that I thought was really fascinating to me, in a jarring display of what we just talked about, what we saw was that it was important for consumers to buy from companies that are clear about what values they stand for, right? That was about 72% for all people in the US. What was different for the neurodivergent population was a number of 91%. So, 91% versus 72%. That is a clear indication that it's important to not only represent the neurodivergent community, but to show the values for this community to ensure loyalty. 

When you're thinking about a lot of this, Valeria,  how are you making the case to clients about investing in underrepresented or underserved, or underappreciated demographics? And how has that pitch been received? 

Valeria: Well, for over a decade now, I've been talking about the inclusivity imperative and shifting the conversation from not just social responsibility, which is still a very big expectation from consumers, but also to the commercial opportunity. So, how brands can grow via persuading, engaging, and serving high-growth population segments. 

Nathan: Right. 

Valeria: So, looking at inclusion as a source for brand growth and emphasizing the commercial value of inclusive practices. So, in a way, it's not just the right thing to do, it's also what makes business sense. And in doing so, creating a strong business case for inclusion that also addresses some of the fears that many marketers have in today's context. There's a lot of polarization. There's some lot of misinformation and a lot of fear about tackling inclusive topics. So, in a way is by addressing it as you would any other business issue with numbers. 

Nathan: And part of what you've talked about before is in your title, right? Sustainable transformation, right? It's not just you do something once and then it goes away, but this sustainability of growth and transformation requires people to look at all audiences through a lens of opportunity, but also doing what's right, while also driving growth for the business. And I think you all have done that and supported a lot of organizations work through that transition. Are there any brands that you've identified as being more inclusive, and I know you have a brand inclusion index? Talk to me a little bit more about that. 

Valeria: Yes, actually the brand inclusion index is our best source to look at brand performance in inclusion, especially for specific populations. And in our most recent brand inclusion in index, one brand that consistently showed up, not just for neurodivergent individuals, but across populations, was Google, and in terms of neurodiversity, one of the things that people commended about the brand is that they develop product innovation that better serves these individuals. 

Nathan: Yes, very much. 

Valeria: And I think that is key because it's not just advertising, it is shaping the world for differences, as you say in Understood and I think that it is critical. And a lot of times, they mentioned the team behind those innovations, the fact that there are people who understand the community and address real needs. So, I think between the innovation, the team, and later on, also they mentioned advertising, the communication, positive representation of people, that is a really good combination of what makes a high performer when it comes to neurodivergent inclusion. 

Nathan: Yeah, and I think the brand inclusion index is critically important for us to continue to point to. I think there's additional brands and organizations out there that are also making headways, right? We see the Philadelphia Eagles, they just announced a huge investment in this area, and you know, they themselves have set up sensory rooms at stadiums, which are nothing new, but they were some of the first to pioneer this area. You know, their mascot actually wears headphones to indicate that their mascot is neurodivergent. 

That's just a little subtle nod to understanding that everybody is different, and think about Emirates or other airlines that are supporting neurodivergent flyers. Emirates just talked about being the first autistic-friendly airline or neurodivergent-friendly airline, with some of what they do in training for staff. There's the Sunflower program to identify, you know, people who may need a little bit of support at the airport or on board. And there's a lot of those types of programs that are beginning to pop up to show that brands actually understand that this is a critical segment. 

You know, I want to switch gears a bit and bring it back up to what you mentioned earlier about the macro environment. You know I know you advocate for inclusion more generally, not just around neurodivergence. How have the conversations more broadly about inclusion shifted in the past couple of months? And do you see them continuing in that direction? 

Valeria: Certainly, the environment has changed, and the level of uncertainty, in some cases even fear, has had an impact in many of the consumer segments we're talking about today. It has also changed in terms of the conversations that marketing leaders and business leaders are having when it comes to their inclusive marketing initiatives, or their organizational initiatives, because sometimes these have to do more with the type of work environment they are creating for their employees. 

So, it has been changing and there's a huge need for data that will help marketers, business leaders avoid reactionary decisions, those measures that are hurting brands because we have evidence that some of the decisions that business leaders are making are already hurting brand reputation, are hurting how consumers see the brand, how they are also willing or not to purchase the brand. 

Nathan: That's very true, especially with like Target or other organizations that have pulled back on some of these inclusion initiatives. You see a distinct link to sales or market share or stock price, right? And I think you also see a pushback from the shareholders themselves. You know, a lot of the major companies that are pulling back on some of these initiatives and have put this on the shareholder ballot have been unilaterally rejected. One in the recent past was American Airlines, whose shareholders want the company to continue on their inclusivity journey. They see it as critical. 

Are there ways you're seeing or effective opportunities for brands to consider, whether it be workarounds or strategies to continue pushing inclusion in the current climate? 

Valeria: Certainly. And one has to do with ensuring that everyone feels seen, everyone feels included. I think there's a misconception about what being inclusive, being diverse means. And that is that it applies to everyone. And I think something that we can learn from how things have been developing is that a lot of people have been feeling unseen and then we need to do better and that is OK. We can course correct to ensure that everyone is coming along and everyone feels respected, valued, appreciated. 

So, there are workarounds, and that, as I said, by changing how we talk about inclusion. But most importantly, what do we do? I think the shift to be effective is to talk less and do more. So, it's putting inclusion in action. It is about making sure that we are creating a work environment where people can succeed, that we're creating shopping environments where people do not feel overwhelmed. That we are creating an advertising message that feels positive and authentic and tells unique stories. So, it's about doing. And I think that is my message to marketers who know that they need to continue in these, which is the right direction, but are looking for ways to mitigate risk and avoid backlash. 

And I have to say that one of the first steps is to better understand what people are needing today, what they are expecting from brands, what is the role of brands in these very challenging environment? And in some cases, unfortunately, today, people are looking at brands to create a safe space, to ensure that they are staying committed to the values that they represent. And that has not changed. If anything, we are doing a new project now. It's being reinforced, especially among some populations. So, I do encourage your listeners to think about how you can make decisions today that will make sure that you grow via inclusion in the future. 

Nathan: You know, Valeria, you all, in late June, you all released a study about this exact topic. Can you share a little bit more about it? 

Valeria: Yes, we call this study The Consumer Reality Check. And that is because we realized that marketers need to better understand what consumers are feeling and what they're expecting from them. And that reality check has to do with unmet expectations around brand-inclusive initiatives. Consumers expect brands to be socially responsible and contribute, not alienate. They also want brands to do a better job in representing themselves, the communities that they belong to, and to be brave and committed.

You mentioned accountability. One of the things we did was analyze what are the brands that are doing well versus the brands that are hurting? Because of their position related to inclusion. And the findings confirm no matter how we looked at them and we used neuroscience to get to an emotional response. We use social analytics to get the social conversations. People are rewarding brands that are staying committed, that are accountable. For their actions that are delivering on the promises they made back in 2020. So, it's a combination of what they expect and also how they are assessing how brands are doing. 

Nathan: I'm wondering, Valeria, did you find, either by inference or data, that there's a lack of consistency in the world that's contributing to this, because I think the pillars that used to be consistent for, let's say, Americans, the government, is now not consistent, right? And as you know, consumers build bonds with things that are consistent. I sense that sometimes brands are being expected to act in that way and fill the void that is felt by many. Is that what you're seeing as well? 

Valeria: Exactly that. And in some categories, trust is essential. 

Nathan: Yes. 

Valeria: So, any marketer that is in a space where trust is paramount should be very careful about the missteps that some brands are making. If you are in financial services, if you are in education, if you're in tech, if you're in health. I can't even mention one category where trust is not essential, you know, that inconsistency leads to an erosion of trust, you now breaking a contract, that invisible contract made with consumers and the reason why they choose you over and over. 

Nathan: Right. Different brands have different business models. But if you see brands engage a specific segment and then pull away, then re-engage them, then pull way, that not only feels inconsistent, but it feels like you're being used. We've seen that in a variety of instances, and I would implore brands, and this is my point of view, to stand up to what's going on and be consistent. This is a clear opportunity for people to come out and say, "This is what's right. This is what matters, and we are for all. It doesn't mean that we are excluding anybody, but we are inclusive of all." 

And that's something you mentioned, Valeria, so if we summarize that in what we just talked about is, how can brands be simple and overt in what they're doing? How can they be inclusive of an all? And most importantly, how can they be consistent and accountable for what they do and how they do it? Are there any things you see in the future that you think are important? 

Valeria: I would follow up on what we were just talking with a reflection on the future, you know, I think, I do encourage business leaders to make decisions they will feel comfortable with a year, two years, or five years from now. Feeling proud of those decisions and thinking about not just what is happening today in today's environment, but how you faced it. And how you make decisions based on it. So, looking forward, I do see a very bright and inclusive future. Younger generations are demanding it. So, we need to honor those demands. 

Nathan: And I think this is important to call out, there has to be some bright lights people look to, right? Nothing is all doom and gloom. There are silver lining, there are brands that are standing up and we will get through this. 

Thank you, Valeria, so much for joining us today. I think there's a lot of work here that's critical for us as an organization, as a company, and as a culture to move forward. And I really appreciate the partnership that we have. 

Valeria: Thank you for having me. 

Nathan: Thanks for tuning in to "Minds at Work." I hope today's conversation inspired you to think differently about what's possible and how we approach our work as business leaders. If you wanna know more about our guest today or the work we're doing here at Understood.org, please check out the show notes. For those looking for resources to better advocate for themselves and others, please visit U.org/work. 

"Minds at Work" is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. To help us continue and expand our work, please donate at Understood.org/give. The show is produced by Julie Subrin and Alison Hoachlander. Mixing is by Justin D. Wright. Samiah Adams is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director, and Neil Drumming is the editorial director. Our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Seth Melnick. And I'm your host, Nathan Friedman. 

Please join us next time. We'll continue exploring how difference can spark connection and shape a more inclusive, creative future of business.