Phone-free classrooms: What happens when devices disappear

It seems like everyone has a phone in their hand these days, and kids are no exception. But increasingly, schools are starting to limit phones — or even ban them. What does that mean for students, teachers, and families? 

In this episode, Julian chats with Dr. Julie Mayring, middle school director and psychologist at Bay Ridge Prep in Brooklyn, about her school’s nine-year phone ban. They discuss how it affects focus, mental health, friendships, and parent communication.

Dr. Mayring also shares tips on handling pushback, keeping kids safe, and making sure technology helps learning instead of getting in the way of it.

For more on this topic

• Read: Accessibility and assistive technology for kids

• Read: Signs your child is ready for a cell phone

• Download: Cell phone “contract” for kids

Episode transcript

Julian Saavedra: Let's be honest, phones are everywhere, on the table, in our pockets. But what happens when the school says, "That's it, no more phones?" Welcome to "The Opportunity Gap," a show where we talk about how to navigate the education system. I am your host, Julian Saavedra, an assistant principal with over 20 years of experience in education.

In this episode, we're diving into a topic that's caused debate across classrooms, school boards, and everywhere else. Should phones be banned entirely during the school day? Today we're joined by Dr. Julie Mayring, a middle school director and psychologist who's seen firsthand how phone policies have played out in real time.

Welcome to the show, Julie.

Dr. Julie Mayring: Thank you for having me.

Julian: School leader to school leader, I'm an assistant principal. You are a middle school director. I spent 13 years in middle school, and I have not looked back. But more props to you, congratulations for doing it and doing it great. Um, can you tell us a little bit about your school and how you all implemented a phone ban back in 2016? Is that right?

Dr. Julie: That's right. Yeah. We're a K through 12 school. My division is middle school, so I'm dealing with sixth, seventh, and eighth graders. And I'm in education, I'm pushing 30 years now, I can't believe it. Um, but middle school has always been my jam. It takes a certain amount of uh, sense of humor, I think, uh, to work with middle schoolers.

Julian: That it does.

(01:36) The evolution of a school's cell phone policy.

Dr. Julie: When I think of how cell phones became more mainstream maybe 2011, and our first stance was this is technology that's here. It's popular. Students are bringing them to school. We're going to teach them how to manage it. And we saw that as part of our role that these are devices, they're not going away. So we would tell students to, we were trying to help them to self-monitor. So we would encourage them to keep their phone in their bag during class or only check it at lunch.

And what we found overall was it wasn't working very well. Students were asking to leave class at various times, and we noticed like some gender differences that boys tended to be gaming when they would find a little nook or cranny, and girls were, they were taking selfies or they were checking social media. And they were using it to kind of self-regulate and it was disrupting the learning process.

So students were absent from class at various times, and, you know, heads were in devices in between classes. And then we noticed a second aspect to it, which was parents were reaching out to us because sometimes in moments where a student got a test back that they weren't happy with their performance on or there was some homework assignment that they missed, they would reach for their phone and vent to their parent about it instead of in the moment talking to the teacher or asking to speak to the counselor.

And so then we were hearing from, we were fielding outreach from parents during the school day when they would start to get anxious because their child was upset about something. You know, we're all in school to engage students in learning, and this was, it started to become a lot of noise in the background for us. So about the same time we were discussing what our options might be, there was research that came out that kind of confirmed there was something else going on for students.

The research said even when students had their phone in a bag, the fact that it was near to them but inaccessible was causing them a level of stress, anxiety. It was that FOMO, they were like missing out on what were the notifications they were missing. And adolescents check their phone, you know, a hundred times in a day and sometimes they're not even aware that they're using it in that way.

So we began to really realize that this isn't about willpower for students. It's not something that we felt we could train. These are, you know, 10 to 13-year-olds. We really started to believe that there was something more going on. And research has come out. Now we know about the dopamine hits and and, you know, it's really more about neuroscience. And there's a billion-dollar industry built into how do we keep eyeballs on devices?

So we decided by 2016, we were like, "We have to make a change. We have to try something different." And we went full steam. We just said, "We're not going to have devices in school. If students come in with them, we can't tell parents they can't buy them for their kids. But we'll collect them at the beginning of the day and we'll give them out at the end of the day." And that was the leap that we made.

Julian: So I'm interested in the fact that it was early on, right, like 2016, as you said, it was relatively early in, you know, phones taking over social lives of our children. And you mentioned we a lot, which again, mark of a great school leader, somebody who talks about we as a collective decision. But I'm interested in hearing, how did you all come to that decision and how did you go about communicating that decision to the families, to the students? And what was the initial response? What was that process like in terms of communicating that policy?

(05:18) Gaining buy-in for the cell phone ban.

Dr. Julie: Sure. We did it in our summer communication, kind of like, "Here's what's upcoming, here's what's new for the year." So parents received it via email. I would say there was some nervousness. Any change causes nerves, and I know the students were not initially happy about it. We were, we were asking them, you know, now they're connected to these devices and we're asking them to leave them for the day. We kind of bridged that with our, we have a lovely receptionist, and so we use the human connection to kind of let parents know, "Listen, we're not saying that you can't reach out. Reach out to us at the school. We're happy to deliver a message. If your child needs to call you because they forgot their sports gear or, you know, they want to have a get-together with a friend and they're changing plans, we can still do that through the main office." So we tried to offer alternatives and we really talked about what the greater goal was. We wanted students to engage with one another and not so much their devices.

Julian: So was there pushback or was it a global acceptance of this policy?

Dr. Julie: I don't remember strong pushback. I think we had a lot of questions and everyone kind of held their breath in the beginning. Were people going to be able to sustain this? You know, were they, were the kids going to be super upset? And, um, you know, it's middle school. You always have students pushing back to limits. Um, but we used it as an opportunity to really engage in conversations with students. You know, our disciplinary approach is more, um, teaching in the moment rather than a punitive consequence. So we did have a student who handed in like the original iPhone, and uh, you know, the teachers were kind of looking at it, and they asked me about it. And I said, "Well, next time he hands it in, ask him to turn it on for you. You know, you want to make sure it's well charged for after school. You know, whatever you have to say to sell it." And they did. And of course it wasn't a working phone. So, you know, they were able to follow up and have a conversation.

(07:27) Navigating phone policies in schools today.

Julian: So, fast forward, we're in 2025. You've been undergoing this policy for the last nine years. I know in Philadelphia, our school district, we have a school-by-school plan of action where each school has a decision as to how they implement it, and it runs the gamut. Some schools have implemented something similar to you have, where there's a full ban on phones completely. Other schools, students are allowed to have the phones indiscriminately and they could just have them and it's kind of off and away. Some schools, students are allowed to put them in a box inside of the classroom and then they can get them during passing periods or during the cafeteria time or in open space. I'm wondering, how do you work this system? Like what is the system? You said you hand them in in the morning, they get them back at the end of the day. How does that work? Just logistically, how does that work?

Dr. Julie: Sure. It's a pretty straightforward system. Um, the first thing that students do when they arrive in school is they head to their advisory. And so the advisors are the touchpoint for the phones. Everybody has a metal box. It's a very simple setup. It's a lockable box. We have like a soft sleeve that is labeled that each student puts their phone into to try to help protect the screens because they're all in this box together. Boxes have handles on them so teachers can move them quickly if needed. For me, it's about, the question comes up about like emergencies, and we wanted to reassure parents that in an emergency, we want students really focused on the adults around them.

We want them following instructions, whether it's an evacuation drill or a lockdown drill. We want families to know that they will hear information from us rather than, you know, a panicked student call or some texting chain where misinformation could occur.

Julian: Got it. What about if there's a substitute for the advisory or, you know, what if it's not the normal, regularly scheduled advisor? How does that work?

Dr. Julie: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, an advisor can start the day and like, let's say they go home sick even. It has happened. We have a shared document with their combination codes. So people have shared their combinations with the other adults in the building. So anyone can sub into it. Sometimes you have a teacher who is on lunch duty and a student's leaving early for a dentist appointment or something. And so we've had situations where we just have to all be able to access the devices if need be.

Julian: Got it. Is there a hierarchy of consequences or like some sort of progressive discipline that goes along with kids not following the policy or has it been pretty straightforward where the students understand what it is and they comply?

Dr. Julie: They've been pretty compliant. I would say first line of defense is a conversation with their advisor. The advisor's trying to, you know, charm them into following the rules. We've had a couple kids, "Oops, they forgot it in their bag," kind of thing. And that will happen once or twice. If it becomes more than that, then it's a conversation with me. And if that becomes ongoing, then I'm pulling a parent meeting. So we can all sit down and talk about, you know, why we have the guidelines in place and what the expectations are. And it really hasn't gone beyond that.

Julian: Have you had to change anything from the original plan or is it pretty consistent with how you started out?

Dr. Julie: I would say the one thing we had to change was these devices now that people wear on their wrists. We had to add them to the boxes.

Julian: Oh, so you collect phones and watches.

Dr. Julie: They started to become a substitute. Parents were texting students during class, and students were, you know, messaging or making phone calls. So yeah, we had to move to collect those also. Other than that, it's been pretty straightforward. And I think because we've done it for so long, there's an expectation that it's going to happen.

Julian: Right. I mean, kind of word gets out, like, "This is what it is," and you kind of know that coming to the school, like that's what the expectation is.

(11:41) Balancing phone bans with the needs of students with disabilities.

Julian: Thinking about the opportunity gap, like our show is all about learning and thinking differences, right? So you have a policy with phones. I know that many of my students, uh, they use devices to support them if they have certain disabilities. Um, I'm thinking text-to-speech, or I'm thinking any sort of assistive technology. How does that work for you?

Dr. Julie: Yeah, it's a great question. We have two programs for students with learning disabilities in our school, so it is something that we deal with. We are a one-to-one Chromebook school. So what I would say is any accommodations that students need and any supplemental accessibility apps that they need can be loaded onto the Chromebook. So we're never, in our policy, you know, not trying to take away tools that students need. We're trying to make sure that the access to the technology aligns with our purpose in school.

And so having it on a Chromebook, they can have a spell checker, they can have text-to-speech, they can have, you know, anxiety management tools. Whatever it is that they need can be pre-loaded, and then we also have a software management system called Hāpara. And that helps us to allow teachers to have control over what students have access to on those devices during the class time. So it's like multi-layered. The teachers are the gateway to when the technology's used, when it doesn't need to be out. You know, we make individual accommodations. We have a student with diabetes, for instance. And so she actually does have her cell phone with her because that helps her to manage her measure the blood glucose level. Like she has a monitor and then the nurse can check in with her and, um, you know, we're focused on like accessibility and, you know, not just trying to restrict everything for restriction's sake trying to make it make sense.

(13:36) The dual perspective of a school leader and a psychologist on phone policies.

Julian: You have a double effect on your leadership, right? You are a school leader, but you're also a psychologist, uh, which I find fascinating. That's a really interesting lens. How does that impact your leadership, you know, just your view of how cell phones not being present in the classrooms, how do you see that impact on the mental, emotional, social-emotional effect on your students from the school leader lens, but also from the psychologist lens?

Dr. Julie: My lens, of course, informs all that I do, right? I think it's why I love what I do because I can look at the research and look at what healthy development looks like for students and then try to optimize the conditions to create that within the school. We know that devices are creating a mental health crisis for adolescents nowadays. So it makes me feel good that we're protecting students from uh, that temptation during the school day. It's very tempting for them, and it's kind of how students are social nowadays.

(14:41) Alleviating parental anxiety about phone bans and school safety.

Julian: What about parents that are, you know, just a little nervous, like, "I'm going to a school, and my school might be considering banning the phone?" A lot of parents are very nervous about safety and I'd be lying if I was saying that school safety is not a major issue that's top of mind for probably every parent in America. And phones are one of the ways that people feel safer. What are your thoughts as to how we can help ease some of the discomfort that some parents might be feeling about a phone ban that might be implemented at their child's school?

Dr. Julie: Sure. I feel like there is a question of like, "In an emergency, I want to know exactly where my child is and have access to them." And my suggestion is in the actual emergency that the safety becomes getting to a safe place first and at that point, the children will have access to their phones. But in the actual emergency of leaving the building, it's in their best interest to be following the teacher leading the group and getting to the destination that should be the focus in the moment, not necessarily immediate contact.

Julian: Got it.

(15:53) Encouraging responsible device use among students.

Julian: Listeners, those of you that are parents of children with devices, I would implore you to start having that conversation of how are you a responsible user of the devices? How are you developing skills so that you can be present and fully present in the school building, but also develop skills so that you can compete in the world? I think that we've definitely gotten a great perspective of what it feels like to attend a school where the schools are not allowing phones. And Dr. Julie, you've had it in place for nine years. So kudos to you. And I'm very interested to hear more about how this continues to support our students as they navigate all the challenges of competing in a world where phones are ever present. Dr. Julie, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Julie: Thank you.

Julian: Thanks so much for listening today. We love hearing from our listeners, so if you have any thoughts about today's episode, you can email us at opportunitygap@understood.org.

And be sure to check out the show notes for links and resources to anything we mentioned in the episode.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences, like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give.

"The Opportunity Gap" is produced by Julie Subrin and Gretchen Vierstra. Video is produced by Calvin Knie and edited by Jessie DiMartino.

Briana Berry is our production director. Jordan Davidson is our editorial director.

From Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key and Scott Cocchiere.

Thanks again for listening.