ADHD contradictions: Hot mess and high performer in equal measure (Sabrina Caluori’s story)

A former boss once described their first meeting this way: “She showed up late and disheveled, and I hired her anyway.” That’s Sabrina Caluori in a nutshell.

Sabrina is the chief marketing officer at Chief, the largest private network for ambitious women. Diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, she describes herself as a contradiction: “High achieving and a hot mess in equal measure” — a leader who can hold an entire company’s strategy in her head but can’t manage her own calendar.

Sabrina shares what it’s like to be gifted with ADHD — twice exceptional — and how that experience bonds her to her 2e child. She gets into ADHD burnout, self-doubt, and how the things she once considered character flaws turned out to make her exceptional at reading people and leading teams.

• Listen: Twice exceptional: Raising a gifted son with ADHD (Emily’s story)

• Read: ADHD and burnout

• Watch: The ADHD burnout cycle

Sabrina Caluori: Thinking back for myself like, yeah, I got straight As but the state of my car was an ongoing joke in my family and among my friends. Things that I thought were just quirks started to make sense to me all of a sudden as I really understood what ADHD actually is and the different ways that it can present.

Laura Key: Hi everyone, and welcome back to "ADHD Aha!", the show where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. Recently I was on LinkedIn and I came across a post from someone I didn't know at the time.

But as I was reading this beautiful post, I realized this is an "ADHD Aha!" moment. I'm going to read you a snippet of that post before I introduce my guest today, who happens to be the author of the post. So here goes.

I have always been a contradiction. The one who can hold an entire organization's strategy in her head but can't manage her own calendar. The one who got the scholarship but missed the flight to the leadership conference. True story. High achieving and a hot mess in equal measure, always.

So my guest today is Sabrina Caluori. She is the chief marketing officer at Chief, the largest private network for ambitious women. Sabrina, how are you today? It's so good to see you.

Sabrina: It's wonderful to see you too. Thank you for having me.

Laura: That wasn't the entirety of your LinkedIn post. It was a beautiful, appropriately long LinkedIn post that really stopped me dead in my tracks. So first of all, thank you for writing it and for being open in public about ADHD and not just your ADHD, but in your family. So maybe we start there with what prompted you to write that post and what you were going through with your child.

Sabrina: That post was in neurodiversity awareness week and, you know, I've been thinking about my own neurodiversity as I've been parenting three neurodiverse kids and what it has meant for me both as a child and then now as a grown woman in a leadership context.

It's funny, I thought a lot about whether or not I was going to write that post. And I had happened to have a conversation with a friend of mine that week who had said to me that one of the things that she appreciates about me is that I often say the thing aloud that others don't say or don't feel like they have the privilege or the power to say. And by doing that, it can give permission to others.

And so while I was having this very emotional reaction to neurodiversity week and my own personal journey, I wrote the post because there's no risk in it for me. I am in a company that is a huge supporter of neurodiversity in the workplace and it is something I'm personally passionate about.

(03:00) Sabrina discusses how observing her children's neurodiversity and receiving support at her company led her to share her own ADHD journey publicly.

And so I felt like I could share something that mattered to me, that was authentic to me and that by doing it, I may give the permission to somebody else to quietly admit it for themselves or to say it aloud in a context that they hadn't before.

Laura: Yeah. You started the post with "I didn't know I had ADHD until my kiddo was diagnosed." And I also want to read the very last part of the post — and then I'll stop reading from this post, I promise. But it was really powerful to me, which is "My kiddo gave me a lot of things. I didn't expect one of them to be myself."

So your child was diagnosed. How did you come to understand that you had ADHD through that process? What was going on?

Sabrina: My oldest son, when we were trying to understand the space of their neurodiversity — they are a, you know, very bright, high-achieving child but clearly also was having some asynchronous development. And we were trying to unpack that and understand that.

And one of the psychologists that we were working with, who is lovely and we were blessed to find somebody who works with kids who are twice-exceptional —

Laura: Twice-exceptional meaning gifted and neurodiverse.

Sabrina: Correct. And one of the things that she said to me is like, "You know, ADHD is as hereditary as hair color." That really sat with me for a minute and I thought, "Huh."

And then when I started to understand ADHD as a sort of a difference in wiring and then as an executive functioning challenge — like thinking back for myself of, and some of that's in the post that I wrote, like, yeah, I got straight As but my car was like an ongoing joke. The state of my car, right, was an ongoing joke.

Or the example that I put in the — that is a real story that's in the post, which is I was selected for a leadership conference and I'm at 16 and I miss the flight because I had time blindness — like right and just really didn't understand that.

And so things that I thought were just quirks or challenges that I had had or just my personality or my inability to be organized around things started to make sense to me all of a sudden as I really understood what ADHD actually is and the different ways that it can present.

Laura: So what did you do from there? Did you seek out an evaluation?

Sabrina: I sought out an evaluation. Also the thing for me that I think was important about the timing of this realization and evaluation and the conversation is that it also coincided with perimenopause for me.

And, you know, as I was thinking about — so if I've had this my whole life and I've gotten by, what is it about now that is making some of this feel so urgent for me? And I think it was that and I've since learned about the relationship between hormones and ADHD, which I didn't know at the time.

But a lot of the kind of constructs and supports that I had created for myself over the last 25 years, particularly in work, kind of started failing. And then I was working with a really exceptional executive coach at the time and bringing the awareness — because the diagnosis was a confirmation for me that was just kind of needed.

But bringing that awareness into how I function every day and instead of it feeling like "Why am I struggling with these things it didn't use to overwhelm me before" and taking a step back and really thinking about new support structures, new things I needed to do for myself as as a leader, as a mother, to operate and like accept this part of who I am and how my brain functions.

Laura: I had this crazy flashback when I read your post and you used the term contradiction of me in my bedroom in high school and I wasn't diagnosed until I was an adult. But I collaged all these things from magazines together, like things that friends would draw for me or whatever.

And one of the things that I had cut out of a magazine that resonated with me so much is — I don't know if you remember this — the Calvin Klein ad for the perfume called "Contradiction."

Sabrina: Oh yeah.

Laura: And it was a picture of I think it's like Christy Turlington or something and it says "She is always and never the same" on it. And I was like, "That is so deep. That is exactly like..."

It just really resonated with me. I think that that is really common, especially for a lot of women with ADHD, given everything that you've just said. Tell me more about contradictions that you experience.

(08:31) Contradictions in women with ADHD and how it relates to their personal and professional identities.

Sabrina: It's interesting because when I think about the superpower side of this and where it has been I think a key to my success as an exec is the ability to manage large-scale creative teams but also the data and analytics side of things.

So the pattern recognition for me and the memory for things that I care about and the ability to like step into a room, see a problem and be able to like conceive of a solution that is cross-functional faster than others. Like that has been a part of how I have succeeded, particularly when it's new, right?

So like the novelty — right, I was in social media, I was at the sort of forefront of transformational change over the last 20 years in my career. And I was able to kind of feel that change, anticipate it early and build out frameworks and systems for the companies and the brands that I was into operate within them.

But answering emails is really hard for me, as you know in booking this podcast. Like I just the day-to-day — like I was recognized by the Advertising Hall of Achievement. This was years ago, is an incredible honor.

In the video that they play, my very first boss in the entertainment creative industry said, "She showed up for the interview late and disheveled and I hired her anyway," right? And and then we became lifelong friends and she was a mentor to me. But that has kind of always been the paradox of who I am.

Laura: That should go on a t-shirt. "She showed up late and disheveled." Did it bother you at the time? A little bit?

Sabrina: Yes, because in the construct of that environment, this was like a high-achieving room. So it's like this video was like airing as I was getting this award alongside five other advertising luminaries in this massive room and it was always this thing about why am I like this?

Why does the sort of administrative operational side, why is that so hard for me when it seemingly isn't for many other women?

Laura: I think people would look at me and say, "She's so organized. She has everything planned out." It's because I'm so paranoid that I'm going to miss something. But it burns me out. It just totally burns me out and I end up usually crashing or crying or whatever, at least once a month of I can't — there's too much in here. I just can't in my head, I can't stand it.

Sabrina: The burnout is interesting and real and also not something that I understood was part of ADHD. So I think that was the other thing that the diagnosis and then the subsequent deep dive to really understanding it for myself and for my kid — it just allowed me a lot of acceptance.

And then understanding that this is actually what my body and brain and nervous system how they operate and what they need to function, where a lot of those things felt like character flaws before then.

Laura: I was going to ask you about that and again going back to your post that one of the — like I didn't expect one of the things my kids to give me was myself. Tell me about the emotional journey of discovering you had ADHD. Some people go through a process. What was that for you?

Sabrina: It felt like a light going on, right? You know, I've been really interested, ironically before this, in the intersection of neuroscience and leadership. And it just allowed me to understand that this is a way in which I am wired differently. It's not a failure, in fact it is deeply tied to some of the things that I find as my strengths.

And I don't know if I would have dug as deeply into that acceptance for myself had I not felt like it was really important for my kids.

Laura: Can you say more about that?

Sabrina: I just wanted so deeply for my son to love and accept themselves. And I find there's such a magical light there that to harness it and to find a way for that light and that magic to shine in the world.

And, you know, how do I have to advocate for the right structures in school and all of those things as well as giving them the language that they needed. And through that process, I realized that the most important thing is for me to model that.

Model the love and acceptance. Because if I wasn't doing it, then I can't really teach it and I can't really, you know, expect for them to do it.

Laura: How did they react to your diagnosis?

Sabrina: I can't remember how they reacted then, but now it's like a beautiful shared thing that we have. And my wife jokes about the two of us sometimes because, you know —

Laura: Oh yeah. Like what?

Sabrina: He steals my water and drinks my entire water. I was like, "Hey, I just poured that water for myself because I forgot to drink water all day." He's like, "Me too, which is why I took your water."

Laura: I want to go back a bit to when — not a bit, like all the way back — to when you were growing up with undiagnosed ADHD and you yourself are also twice-exceptional, is that right?

Sabrina: Yes.

Laura: Tell me about your experience growing up and what you remember now about, you know, having ADHD but not knowing it at the time.

Sabrina: It's interesting to reflect back now particularly on that 11-year-old age, which is the age my son is right now. It's back to that dichotomy a little bit or that contradiction.

I remember this moment very clearly and it stuck with me because I think it was something that I felt deeply. Which is right around that age of 10 or 11, for some reason I was going through a phase where I broke a lot of dishes in the house.

I don't know if this is in hindsight — in the looking back, I'm like, is this like my busy brain just not paying attention? And my brother, who is seven years older than me, said to me, "For somebody so smart, you're so stupid."

And I just — like it really sat with me. It is the sort of memory that sums up that time and I think how I often held that paradox of like, yes, I could really perform in school, but I would do things like that that were just perceived as dumb by others. And I think that again now as I look back, I think that was the ADHD coming through and I just didn't know it or understand it.

Laura: Have there been instances as you've, through college and through work that that has been a worry? Has it led to imposter syndrome at all? Tell me about how that has manifested.

Sabrina: I think the thing for me is I've been really blessed in my life, in my career, in the success I've had. And so I've, you know, climbed the proverbial corporate ladder.

But I always, you know, as I would look around at the peer set or that rung right above me — like I think I've always held that same "How am I here?" There's a perception of perfection that is often created by highly successful corporate women and I have never fit that box.

And yet, I have risen through the ranks, but because of that it has always felt like perhaps I don't belong. And so I guess it's not imposter syndrome because I think the confidence that my neurodiversity has given me has always allowed me to feel like I'm comfortable in the space of intellectual ideas or inside the when we're engaging around the work.

But the who I am. Who I am as a human, as a woman, I have always felt like was an outsider that I didn't belong or I didn't match the picture that I was supposed to be.

Laura: You're also just such an authentic person. And I'm not trying to say that only people with ADHD can be real and seem authentic, but I do feel — and I'm curious if you agree — that people with ADHD, a lot of us have this feeling that maybe we were never good enough, that we were stupid, that we were lazy or whatever because we didn't really have the words to explain what was going on.

And I think it just kind of lends itself to a natural authenticity. I'm curious, you know, if you feel like your ADHD has contributed to that authenticity and if you agree that you don't have to be this always polished version. That people respond to authenticity.

Sabrina: Yeah, I mean, I think the journey for me first as a child — it's like I was a highly sensitive child and over time had to learn how to create some boundaries for myself over that. Like deeply feeling, you know, empath — take in everyone's energy, which I think as an adolescent and as a young adult was really overwhelming.

And so the first phase of that was like learning how to make sure I protect myself and protect my energy. And then as I matured, I started to learn that that actually was a gift and that it is part of what made me good at leading teams because I can read rooms and I can read people and I can sense people's emotional awareness, engagement, reaction quickly.

And then the combination of that with — I think it took me probably the third phase like a little longer on the authenticity piece to be like that's just always been who I was. I am transparent, I have no filter, right?

And for a long time, it felt like an Achilles' heel — right because I wasn't in the box of what a typical executive was. But I think as I got older, more mature, more established, it goes back to our story at the top.

What I realized is — not for everyone, but for many — the fact that I show up as a leader exactly as who I am, whether that's wearing combat boots or without a manicure or, you know, late and disheveled, that that actually — and I have had, you know, younger folks thank me for that.

So yes, now I try and stand in it and own it because I didn't have those people to look up to when I was young in my career. And if I can be of help to some young woman who's trying to figure herself out, then all the better.

Laura: And do you explicitly share that you have ADHD in addition to being your authentic self? Yeah.

Sabrina: Yeah. I'm actually — I don't usually share that I'm gifted because that one lands weird for people.

Laura: It comes with a burden as well.

Sabrina: And part of what I've learned is like there's a Venn diagram of intersection in neurodiversity — like there's a real overlap there between the two. And that the giftedness isn't, you know, sure it's the IQ stuff, but it comes with its complexity of wiring very similar to ADHD. And I've had to understand how they relate to one another to really understand myself.

Laura: So what's next for you on your ADHD journey, Sabrina?

Sabrina: It's funny because I come at it from a lot of dimensions. Like I'm really interested in the science and there's so much more to learn and understand about the intersection of women's midlife and ADHD.

I'm really just as an intellectual endeavor hopeful that there will be more science and more studies and more to learn there. And then I just want to be an advocate for neurodiversity as a strength in teams.

I think there's so much — it's an important conversation around how we have supports for our neurodiversity in the workforce, but also how do we intelligently design and lead teams that are both neurotypical and neurodiverse. There's still so much that can be done there.

Laura: Well, I've got two podcasts for you and for our listeners who might be interested in the same on science and midlife. I definitely would check out "Hyperfocus", another one of our shows in our network that's hosted by my great colleague Rae Jacobson. She tracks a lot of those studies.

And then "Minds at Work" with Nathan Friedman talking about neurodiversity in the workplace. Sabrina, is there anything else you want to share before we sign off?

Sabrina: Just a shoutout maybe to the other neurodiverse moms out there who are also managing neurodiverse kids. One of the things we talk about a lot is in my house the magic of kids, of kids with ADHD and neurodiversity in its broader definition.

But also there's an additional weight that we all carry in being advocates and supports and, you know, the joke about being your child's executive function when your own is also a challenge. So just, you know, for the other moms out there like us, I see you and sending you love and support and sleep.

Laura: Thank you. I feel seen in you saying that. I also just want to give one more shout to your LinkedIn post and the phrase that you used, "high achieving and a hot mess." I love that phrase. It really resonates and I just am really grateful for you coming on the show, Sabrina. So thank you so much.

Sabrina: Thank you, and thank you for having me and for doing this. Appreciate it.

Laura: Thanks for listening today. As always, if you want to share your own aha moment, email us at ADHDaha@understood.org. Or send a message to our voicemail inbox. You'll find a link in the show notes along with resources and links to anything we mentioned in the episode.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

"ADHD Aha!" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine.

Jessamine Molli: Hi everyone.

Laura: And edited by Alyssa Shea. Video is produced by Calvin Knie. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright. Production support provided by Andrew Rector. Briana Berry is our production director. Neal Drumming is our editorial director.

From Understood.org, our executive producers are Scott Cocchiere and Jordan Davidson. And I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.