When ADHD feels like your insides are crawling (Kate Moryoussef’s story)

Why does sitting still feel like a physical emergency? Kate Moryoussef, ADHD lifestyle and wellness coach and host of the “ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast,” spent years convinced she was the problem.

It wasn't until her daughter's meltdowns, daydreams, and overwhelm mirrored her own childhood that everything clicked. In this episode, Kate unpacks restlessness and what ADHD actually feels like in the body, how generational ADHD shapes families, and why so many women spend decades doubting themselves before finally getting answers.

• Listen: Can I get rid of my adult sensory issues? 

• Read: How ADHD can affect your mental health

• Watch: Can ADHD affect physical health?

Kate Moryoussef: I put people on a pedestal above me, whether it was academia, it was their job, it was what I thought they were doing well in life, all those different things. I had quite a negative mindset towards myself, and I didn't have any other explanation, so the only explanation was that I was the problem. I'm so grateful now to have the awareness that I do, because if I didn't, I don't know where I'd be or what my self-worth or self-esteem would be. I really don't.

Laura Key: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to "ADHD Aha!", the show where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. My guest today is Kate Moryoussef. Kate is an author, an ADHD lifestyle and wellness coach, and host of the "ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast". Kate, who was diagnosed with ADHD later in life, is also a mother of four, and all of her kids have ADHD, too. Kate, welcome to the show. It's great to see you again.

Kate: Thanks, Laura. Good to be here.

Laura: So, you have quite the ADHD family tree. Let's start with you. You were diagnosed during the pandemic. Can you tell me and our listeners what was going on?

Kate: Yeah, so it's like etched in my brain, in my memory, and not many things are. But it was November 2020, and I was at home like everyone else was. I had four kids homeschooling, trying to, you know, start a new business, and there was just obviously a huge amount going on.

It was my middle daughter, who was nine at the time, who I could just see was struggling really, really badly with the online learning. She just couldn't even sit through, you know, a 20-minute online class. And so I just started Googling and looking and thinking, you know, we'd been told that it wasn't dyslexia and it wasn't dyspraxia. No one ever mentioned ADHD.

I put in all her symptoms and there was a huge amount of overwhelm and there was meltdowns and all sorts of things. But essentially, she was a quiet, sweet, giggly, thoughtful, dreamy, lovely, non-disruptive girl. And I put all those things in, and it came back as, have you considered ADHD in girls?

At that moment, it was that penny-dropping moment of, I can see all of this in her, but I could see so many of these traits in myself as well. I started looking in teenagers and women and the incarnations of myself that I could remember, and I just saw myself in every chapter of my life. So, I was 40, she was nine. We were both diagnosed within about two weeks of each other. That was a huge pivotal moment in both our lives. It's taken us down a whole new way of living, I guess.

Laura: What did you remember about growing up and being her age or around that age?

Kate: I remember it wasn't necessarily the academia stuff. It was more like a sense of looking on the outside and looking in and thinking, why does everyone get that? Or why has that landed so easily? Why is everyone understanding those instructions? Why is everyone doing that and they're not having to ask the same question over and over?

Or why was that homework really easy for someone? Or why do they just hand stuff in and not procrastinate? Or why did people find it easy just to sit through a class and not doodle or tap or fidget or look out the window or feel like your internal organs were climbing out of your body because it was so boring?

It was just memory after memory — maybe traumas, small T traumas — just hitting me like a hailstorm of, oh my goodness, this was my life, but I never had any explanation or understanding. But there was also the emotional side — huge emotional side — with the sensitivities, maybe friendship dynamics. Definitely the anxiety, maybe the propensity for OCD, the worrying, the overthinking, the nighttime palpitations that I used to get. I see how it manifests in such small ways but in such ways that really can take over your life, but no one ever talks about it.

06:40 The physical sensations of ADHD and the constant drive for productivity.

Laura: That was a really vivid description. And I think there were a few things that you said that really showed how these things manifest in the body and bodily feelings. Physically, what does ADHD feel like to you?

Kate: So, interesting. I've just come from getting my nails done. The lady who was doing my nails said to me, "Why are you always so — you just have one nail, one color. You never have patterns or you never have anything interesting." And I was trying to explain to her I cannot sit for any longer than just you doing the color and so I can leave.

Obviously, we didn't really talk about ADHD in huge amount of detail, but there was a lady behind me and she went, "Oh my God, I'm exactly the same." She said, "I have to have my nails done, but the sitting is excruciating." And that is kind of an analogy where I see other people and they're sort of just sitting and they're relaxing. People sit on couches or they're not constantly feeling like there's this internal restlessness.

That's not necessarily just about the sitting, the physical sitting. It's internal restlessness of, I should be doing something. I need to be productive. There must be something I'm missing, or I should be working on something. My brain is just constantly wanting to be active even though I'm burnt out, even though I'm exhausted.

In a way, it's great because I have lots of ideas and lots of things that I want to do, and I feel like every moment counts in life. But on the flip side, I would sometimes just love to be able to just sit and just enjoy sitting and relaxing and resting without thinking I should be researching something or I should be doing something or I should be multitasking. So, it's kind of a constant internal battle that I have which, even that in itself, is quite exhausting.

Laura: I relate to that — that hyperactive mind and that feeling of, why can't I just be present? And the frustration that I feel with not being present. But kind of — tell me if this resonates, Kate — being overpowered by a fear that I'm not living up to my potential. And what my potential could be in this moment, in the future. Yeah, talk to me about that.

Kate: Yeah, I 100% relate to that. I feel like I live in this universe where if I don't constantly — every minute is not productive — I could be missing out on doing something. Or what happens if I don't fulfill my potential and I only have this one opportunity? I always relate to a line in "Hamilton". I think he says, writing like you're running out of time.

Laura: Oh my God, Kate. You're not the first guest on this show to reference that exact line! That's so funny.

Kate: No way! Oh my God, no! So, that literally landed and I was like, oh my God, he must have had ADHD. And then I listened back and it was like, yes, he definitely had ADHD listening to all the different things. But that's kind of what it feels like — like I've been given an assignment in life to just be as productive as possible.

Now, I kind of feel like I fulfill that in some ways, but I'm always — I mean, listen, my job, it's almost like I have come to this world to try and be the antithesis of that because I work in well — being. I'm very into helping people with regulation and calm and being present and breathwork and mindfulness and being aware and spirituality and all of that. But it's because I struggle so much with it myself.

And so I try and find a balance. Every day, it's like I'm fine-tuning and I never quite get there. Some days are better than others, but it's just this constant fine-tuning between the balance, the burnout, the brilliance that we have. I think I've got a workshop on this — I think I coined it burnout, balance, brilliance, and something. Boredom, maybe.

Laura: It had alliteration, is what you're saying.

Kate: Exactly. Some B somewhere. It's really tricky to manage all of that. It's so interesting how we can be so good at supporting and empathizing other people with the very things that we struggle with.

13:44 Kate reflects on the generational impact of ADHD within her family tree and her brothers' early diagnoses.

Laura: When you did get diagnosed with ADHD, what was your immediate emotional reaction?

Kate: I was really emotional. I think I broke down. I think I broke down in tears and I couldn't believe that I was finally getting validation from a psychiatrist. It wasn't like I'd read it in a self-help book. There was a medical doctor saying to me, "This is the explanation to what you've gone through throughout your whole life."

There was definite relief, validation, but then came definite grief and sadness and anger and just, how did this get missed? And why wasn't I supported? And all the things that I could have got help with. I put people on a pedestal above me, whether it was academia, it was their job, it was what I thought they were doing well in life, all those different things.

I called myself things like flaky or inconsistent or easily bored or I'd never finish things. And so I had quite a negative mindset towards myself and I didn't have any other explanation, so the only explanation was that I was the problem. It was my personality, it was my lack of discipline, maybe it was my parents, you know, maybe they did something wrong.

Like most people with ADHD, they've seen how ADHD manifests in their family life and their generational patterns. It still trips me up all the time, ADHD. All the time. And so I'm so grateful now to have the awareness and the understanding and the insights that I do, because if I didn't, I don't know where I'd be or what my self-worth or self-esteem would be. I really don't.

Laura: I know that so many people with ADHD are often like, "Well, how can I be productive? What are the hacks that I can use to be productive?" Just out of curiosity, does having that self-compassion and that awareness, does it lead to more productivity?

Kate: It depends what productivity looks like to you and what that productivity is for. Sometimes we need to break that down a little bit as well, understanding the pre-ADHD version of productivity and that post version. Listen, we know that in our community, burnout is very common.

So, we need to recognize that. If I didn't know my ADHD was driving something, if I went into sort of like a hyperfocus — like if I notice my social media use kind of going a bit crazy — I'm like, right, phone away for a couple of hours or laptop away. Go and take a walk, go and do some cooking, go and do something creative, go and do some breathwork.

I proactively pull back now because I can feel the sensations in my body. I'm really in tune now with how my ADHD shows up in my body, whether that's tension, it's my palpitations. I really experience palpitations quite a bit. It's my gut. So, maybe the productivity we sensed or wanted is not good for us, so that needs to look different to us after the awareness. I hope that answered your question.

Laura: It absolutely does. I love how you answered that question and just the reframing of productivity, too. What does it actually mean, right? And that's kind of that pre and post-ADHD diagnosis, ADHD awareness self.

Kate: So many of us really relate to this feeling of having like a motor inside of us that we haven't got control over. And then we understand that afterwards we go, "Right, okay, the motor is that," you know, whatever that part is — our nervous system, our brain, the combination — that ADHD part of us that is driving a motor that doesn't really want to stop and doesn't really want us to stop because we're getting like a dopamine fix from it.

Laura: And sometimes it isn't even driving us to do things that are productive in even the typical sense, right? I know that my ADHD motor will have me running around the house and I'm just literally — I'm just moving pillows around. It's not really doing anything that's helping anybody. It's just feeding the beast, right?

Kate: Oh my goodness, 100%. And I can feel that very similarly to you. I'll know I'm tired, I'll know I need to just sit down and just relax, and I'll see like a crumb or something in the corner of the kitchen. So instead of just picking it up, I'll get the Hoover or the vacuum out and I'll start vacuuming.

And then I'll vacuum the other room and the other room, and then I'll — you know what, I might as well do the stairs. And I can hear my husband shouting at me going, "Sit down, put the vacuum away." And it's almost like I don't have control until I literally have to speak out loud to myself saying, "This is not necessary. It's okay."

I sometimes speak to my nervous system and say, "It is safe for you to slow down. It is safe for you to stop, that you don't need to be active and busy all the time. It's okay if the stairs have got some fluff on them. You can do that tomorrow when you have more energy."

Laura: I did something like that this morning. I don't like things on my counters. I don't know why, I just don't like when there are things on the counter. And we were all — we had five minutes to get the whole family out the door for school and work, and I'm like moving around the toaster and I'm moving everything around. I'm starting to get really flustered about why is all this stuff on the counter, and my husband's like, "That doesn't matter right now. It just doesn't matter right now."

So Kate, I want to talk more about the ADHD family tree and the generational ADHD impact. Can you share more just your general thinking about what that means — the ADHD generational impact?

Kate: I think it's a huge part, actually, for people because I don't know of any other mental or mental health umbrella that has never been understood before like neurodivergent ADHD, autism, the way it is presented throughout families. Because it's always been — again, I'll speak quite generally — so-and-so had a nervous breakdown. So-and-so was addicted to this. They had a gambling problem, they had a drug problem, they lost all their money, they divorced three times.

And then you start pulling things together — oh, that person was depressed, that person had to go into, you know, a mental health institution. And you see how it's peppered in certain family trees, but we've never had the answers to it. And I looked back when I got my diagnosis because my two brothers were actually diagnosed when they were kids. So, I'm 45. I've got an older brother and a younger brother.

Laura: Did you know at the time that they had been diagnosed?

Kate: Oh yeah. It was like ADD in the 90s. All we knew is they were disruptive at school, they couldn't sit through lessons. My older brother, you know, bless him, was expelled from many different schools. He struggled in academia. He barely scraped through to get qualifications. He didn't make it to college, and it's impacted his self-esteem ever since.

It was never discussed about girls. Ever, ever, ever. And so even though I looked — you know, after my diagnosis — I think maybe it was during the assessment and they said, "Have you got any school reports?" and I started rummaging around and I just found a couple that kind of was between the age of about 10 and 14.

There was loads of hints, you know: Kate would do so well if she stopped talking in class. If Kate handed her homework in on time, she'd get an A. If Kate focused more or if Kate went into more detail, or all these different things. No one ever mentioned ADHD to me.

So, we have from a female perspective so many women throughout the generations who have been missed, who have been misdiagnosed, who have been put on the wrong medication, and so many women who sadly have just been sort of were cast aside. So, I think this is we're the first generation of women who maybe will be parenting neurodivergent kids who will also maybe have a parent that's still alive and be able to discuss the three generations of how it looks like. And that older generation, you know, in their 70s, will say, "Well, actually, I saw this in my mom, or I saw this in my grandma, or I saw this in my auntie," and we're able to start piecing together.

And again, that's validation, isn't it? So, that is why it's so important because there's self-healing, but there's also family healing. And then there's that kind of like moment in time where we go, "No, we're not going to do this anymore. We're going to give the girls a chance to do life differently."

21:12 Kate describes the dynamics of her neurodivergent household and how she manages her energy and boundaries.

Laura: Kate, do you have an example of something that maybe feels healed in your family tree through these hard conversations?

Kate: I see it pop up in situations. Maybe I'm having a conversation with someone on the podcast or I'm speaking to someone in my community, and I'll suddenly have a memory and think, oh, that must have been really hard for my mom, say. Or that must have been really hard for my brothers.

I felt like I did struggle. I struggled to live in a house that was quite charged, emotionally charged and quite dysregulated. And that was a struggle for me. But instead of holding quite a lot of resentment maybe that I used to have, there is a bit more gentle understanding there.

Laura: So, you have four kids?

Kate: Yes.

Laura: And they all have ADHD? Did I get that right?

Kate: Yes, in different capacities with different overlaps of different things like dyslexia and all sorts. Yeah, it's fun.

Laura: Does your husband have ADHD?

Kate: Oh yeah. 100%. And he even admits that.

Laura: All six of you! Okay.

Kate: But he's not had a diagnosis. But he — sometimes I sometimes think his ADHD is worse than mine. But in different ways. It's so different. And that's like — it's kind of like that partner that just constantly keeps you on your toes. And when you kind of get to know him or her, they just show you another side. It's like, oh, this is fun, but also terrifying.

Laura: Give me an example. I need an example.

Kate: You know, we've got four kids. One's super messy and disorganized but brilliant. One has like an overlap of OCD and anxiety and very more sort of this propensity to sensitivity and worry. One kind of struggles more with just the academia, the learning side, the processing and all things like that. And then one has like overlaps with ADHD and dyslexia and, you know, we're not quite sure which one's driving the car at that time.

And then you've got me who's trying to regulate the house while trying to regulate myself and trying to be aware and try and help them all. And a lot of the time they don't even want my help because I'm boring and I'm nagging them and all I do is talk about ADHD. So yeah.

But I do think that I just pepper in little moments of, "Well, that's your ADHD," or "That is why you're struggling," or "That is like your working memory or your processing." I want to kind of give them the language because I don't want them to grow up thinking that there's a problem there. But I'm also a very normal parent who gets angry, frustrated. I probably say the wrong thing.

Every time I lose my rag, I think, oh my God, I've done the thing that I shouldn't do and I shouldn't — and then I'm going to give them some form of anxiety or issue. But again, I think probably 10, 15 years' time you're going to look back at these conversations and think all the things that we didn't know. We really are just scratching the surface, I think. Well, if things have changed so much just in these few years, what's it going to look like now that this is part of mainstream conversations and it never was a mainstream conversation?

Laura: Oh man, Kate. I thought I was ahead of the curve, and now you're reminding me that we're probably still way behind.

Kate: I don't think we're behind. I just think we're uncovering. It's like a trail that we're uncovering as we're walking through it.

Laura: Our generation of women having an ADHD diagnosis and then having children — in many cases, daughters who also have it — that's a new dynamic. Navigating that has been very interesting for me and my daughter too, and I also, Kate, get the "Can we stop talking about ADHD now?" And I'm like, "No, but I'm going to teach you how to advocate and how to..." And she's like, "Yeah!"

So, I'm trying to find that balance of not being too overbearing about it and just living. But to go back to a term that you used when you described your house growing up — emotionally charged. When you said that, that hit me to my core, because that is a great way to describe an ADHD house that doesn't know it's an ADHD house. And I imagine that your house and my house, they're still emotionally charged, but maybe with a different flavor of that — a little awareness sprinkled in that makes it feel like the stakes aren't as high.

Kate: Oh God, yeah. I mean, I remember what went on in my house growing up and it was really not good. There was no emotional regulation. There was no understanding. But I do try and prioritize now calm. And I try and really think, yes, I want to do all the things. Yes, I want to achieve things and I want to do lots of things.

But I try always to put my own regulation first so I can co-regulate my kids, because I really want them to have a sense of calm in the house that I didn't have. We've got a lot to deal with at the moment. So, yeah, it's not easy.

Laura: And listeners, I just want to call your attention back to something that Kate said earlier, which is, you still get frustrated, you still get angry. We're sitting here talking, it doesn't mean that we're perfect parents. It's just there's — I don't know how to describe it, Kate. It's just something — maybe it's the lowering of the stakes. Just having that knowledge, that understanding that this is why I'm reacting this way, I just feel like it takes the edge off of everything. Just a little bit. It doesn't make everything perfect, but it takes the edge off, right?

Kate: It's this weird way I see time now. Because when I look at my diary and I see how things are scheduled in a diary and I look and I think, how am I going to feel at the end of that day? How am I going to feel at the end of that week? What do I need to pull back on? I need to scale this back because I know that version of me at the end of the week is going to be totally overwhelmed and frazzled and exhausted and snappy and just not who I want to show up as.

As an ADHDer, I probably put far too much in my diary, say yes to so many things. But unfortunately, I then have to be a bit more refined. I have to go in and do some refinement and I pull back and I change things, and I don't have any issue with that now. Whereas before I would worry what people would think about me. My boundaries are stronger, I would say.

You know, if a friend says, "Do you want to come do this with me this night?" and I think, well, I'm out the night after, so me going out two nights on the trot, that's not a good thing for anyone. So I'm going to just decide which night I'm going to go out and say no to one of those things.

Laura: I don't know what you mean by on the trot, but I think I get it. I am learning so much, Kate. Side note, you've said on the trot, you said I think you said you lost your rag or something. I'd never heard that, I love that. And I love that you say diary instead of your schedule.

Kate: On the trot, I think, means one after each other, consecutively.

Laura: Okay, one after another. Yeah, no, I can't do that either. I'm like, "Wait, you guys want me to go out two nights in a row? Have you lost it? What's the matter with you? What sane human being could ever do something like that?" That's now my reaction to it too. Kate, tell our listeners a little bit more about what you're doing right now — the podcast, anything else you want to share?

Kate: I show up every week doing the podcast, the "ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast". It's been going for over four, four and a half years nearly. And I've got the book as well, and again, that's me just sharing so much of what I learned from all the experts but also my lived experience and what I've learned from my community and coaching and just living in the trenches, if you understand what that means.

Laura: We got it.

Kate: And then over on my website I have lots of resources and workshops and all sorts, and I have a community as well where there's late — diagnosed women and we share and we have workshops and experts. So yeah. And this is me trying to pull back, by the way. This is me trying to be not too busy. Thank you for having me on. I love these kind of conversations where I'm able to mentally process and talk about these things because I quite like the curiosity of being able to reflect back. So, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Laura: Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. Thanks for listening today. As always, if you want to share your own aha moment, email us at ADHDaha@understood.org or send a message to our voicemail inbox. You'll find a link in the show notes along with resources and links to anything we mentioned in the episode.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give.

"ADHD Aha!" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine.

Jessamine Molli: Hi, everyone.

Laura: And edited by Alyssa Shea. Video is produced by Calvin Knie. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright. Production support provided by Andrew Rechter. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. From Understood.org, our executive producers are Scott Cocchiere and Jordan Davidson. And I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.