A late ADHD diagnosis proved what he always knew deep down (comedian Derek Sheen’s story)

Derek Sheen spent decades being told he was difficult, a bad listener, not smart enough — while testing in the top one percentile of his state. That’s ADHD for you.

Derek is a comedian whose special Unrelatable is on YouTube. In this episode, he talks about the “hidden passenger” he always suspected was there, why the stage was the one place he felt completely in control, and how a late ADHD diagnosis forgave a lifetime of things he’d blamed on himself. Also: a childhood story full of twists and turns, hyperactivity then and now, and a joke at the very end that’s worth sticking around for.

• Listen: Rejection sensitivity and ADHD as an Emmy-winning comedy writer (Dan McCoy’s story)

• Read: Signs and symptoms of ADHD in adults

• Watch: What’s so funny about ADHD? (Jim Tews’ story) 

Derek Sheen: I always felt like there was somebody else driving. Anytime I would focus on something, it felt like someone would just turn the wheel, and then I would have to wrestle it back.

Now I know there are adjustments I can make in my daily routine, and I have to understand that there are things outside of my control. I have to learn how to, you know, drive with two steering wheels in the car.

Laura Key: Hi everyone, and welcome back to "ADHD Aha!", the show where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. I've interviewed my fair share of comedians with ADHD on this show and I've always really enjoyed it.

It's not just the humor, it's the introspection, the layers underneath the laughter. Maybe that's why I'm so excited to interview my guest today, Derek Sheen. Derek is a comedian with ADHD, a cuddly mess of insecurities, and perhaps your favorite comedian's favorite comedian. Derek, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here today.

Derek Sheen: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Laura: My unscientific hypothesis is that a lot of comedians have ADHD. Do you agree with that hypothesis?

Derek: Oh, absolutely. In fact, the number of people diagnosed with ADHD in the comedy community keeps growing exponentially. So, I do think that there is a — I think it's a way of coping for some people and they don't realize that comedy is sort of their way to, you know, either battle or learn to live with it.

I don't think a lot of comedians know they have it until they get a little later in life and go, "Why is it that I'm so unfocused and," you know.

Laura: Yeah.

Derek: I think that's where we all gravitate to the arts and creatives and —

Laura: What is it about comedy that you think is so welcoming to the ADHD brain?

Derek: I think it's the one time when you're on stage that you are totally in control of your environment. Because normally I think in my day-to-day life before I did stand-up, I always felt like I didn't necessarily belong in places or I was under scrutiny or I didn't always, you know, wasn't listened to or, you know, it would be very hard for me to join conversations.

So, being on stage, I was the loudest person there and everyone paid attention to me. And I was amplified, so you couldn't talk over me.

Laura: Yeah, exactly. No one's interrupting.

Derek: Exactly.

Laura: So, you mentioned that you think a lot of comedians are getting diagnosed later with ADHD. You were diagnosed two years ago. Is that right?

Derek: Yes.

Laura: Yeah. Tell me what was going on. What led to you seeking out an evaluation and your diagnosis?

Derek: I had been suspicious all along. I mean, my childhood was a big indicator. I mean, I know that I had a very hard time in school focusing. I never completed homework. I would fade in and out of listening and not listening and concepts just went over my head.

And you know, I was the kid that would have to come up after class and go, "Hey, I need you to explain this to me directly because I don't do well in the group," you know.

And I think that it got — I think when in the '70s and '80s, of course that just got — there wasn't a diagnosis. I was difficult or, you know, I wasn't a good listener. But I also tested in the upper 1 percentile of the state. You know, so I was smart, but it was very hard for me to pay attention.

And I knew that when I would work on things that I wanted to. I used like — I loved to draw. I loved to — I started making masks. I learned how to sculpt and taught myself how to do all these things as a kid.

But doing homework and paying attention to things was really difficult unless I was into it. But I would also read like — I mean, I was reading adult novels, like two or three of them a week, and retaining all these things. But just my real-world practice, being around my friends, having difficulty, you know, forming relationships and friendships. That was something I took with me my whole life.

Laura: Like adult novels? You were reading like adult novels?

Derek: Oh yeah. Yeah, I was reading like Neville Shute and Stephen King and everything like —

Laura: I was trying to make a pornography joke. It didn't land.

Derek: Oh, I see! I did read — I did read Erica Jong early on and so but I don't think I really truly grasped it. But I think for stand-up, I think a couple years ago I really reached a point where I just — I was trying to write a book, and I'm trying to book myself and — and I was having — the older I get, the harder it is for me to focus on details.

(03:41) Derek describes his struggle with focus and detail as he grows older and faces new professional challenges.

Derek: And so like trying to book myself on a tour and trying to figure out the travel and — eventually I just become overwhelmed. And it happened all the time, but now I'm writing a book and I'm trying to like — I've got all these projects on board and I just can't seem to get, you know, one thing done.

So, I decided to just see for my own benefit, you know, if I was — if I had a hidden passenger. And went through the — it was, you know, fairly rigorous testing. I mean, I, you know, twice a week therapy, and, you know, a lot of — a lot of — a lot of doctor visits.

And you know, it's funny is my doctor told me, you know, two visits in, like, "I know this and you know this. Let's just make sure we hear it from the experts," you know, "and make sure that we're secure on it."

And what was interesting is once I got the diagnosis, it was sort of like a weight was lifted off of me. Because I realized like, now that I know this, I think I have a better idea of how I can circumnavigate things. And it — I think it was just — it was just necessary to hear it.

Laura: Yeah, I believe that. You said a "hidden passenger." I love that. I think when we chatted you also said a "third passenger." Tell me what you mean by that whole passenger perspective.

Derek: I always felt like there was somebody else driving. Trying to steer the car in a different direction. Anytime I would make a solid focus on something, it felt like someone would just turn the wheel and then I would have to wrestle it back.

You know, I talked to my psychiatrist about this. Something that he said that actually was very helpful is that the concept of split consciousness is very real. You know, you can have two versions of yourself. And so it is good to sort of, you know, separate yourself from some of your desires or your motivations and it makes it easier for you to understand that, like, you are a multiplicity and you contain multitudes.

Laura: I really like that image of like, you're trying to take the wheel and you have a destination in mind, and then it's like there's this other passenger taking the wheel. Can you give an example, a tangible example of something that you once maybe tried to do and that third passenger got in the way?

Derek: Oh, this is great. I'm working on — I'm writing a book. I mean, it's a real process where I thought I could write. And so I was like, "Let's write a book." But it is so much more than that, and it — it requires a lot more energy and concentration and focus and also just, you know, paying attention, which I have a hard time doing because, you know, details and continuity and —

So, it really started drawing a lot out of me, you know, muscles I hadn't used before. For instance, I would sit down and go, "Okay, I'm going to — I've charted out that I'm going to write this today. I've got two pages I need to knock out."

And as soon as I start to write, within five minutes my brain goes, "Hey, what were the lyrics to this song?" And I'm like, "What — what is happening here?" And then my brain would just go, "No, no, no, just the song. It goes like this. Just figure it out. We should just get online and figure it out. If you can remember a lyric, we can just type it in and we'll figure it out. Then I'll be done. I'm good."

You know, the conscious me is like, "No, I really need to work on this right now." "Okay, well, I'm just going to hum this song. I'm just going to keep humming it until you do something about it." And I couldn't shut that out. So, eventually I'd be like, "All right, let's Google the lyrics. Okay."

And then that voice in my head would be like, "Okay, cool, thanks." And then five minutes later it'd be like, "You know, is pizza a flavor? How is it a flavor? Like, what flavor is it? Is it pepperoni? Is it tomato? Like, oh well, we should Google and just find out what they mean by that."

Laura: Combos. The pizza flavor is Combos, by the way. My favorite snack.

So, you get diagnosed with ADHD. Like, tell me what else came from that? You know, what did you maybe learn about yourself that you didn't know before? Or is it that you already knew this and it was just codifying what you already knew?

Derek: I mean, it codified but it also I think, in a lot of ways, it forgave a lot of things. It helped me forgive myself for a lot of things. I was dealing with something my whole life that I think was overlooked or misunderstood.

So, for a lot of my life, I just accepted that I was difficult, accepted that I wasn't smart, you know, that I was just bad at things because that's the energy I got from adults. "You're just not a smart person because you just can't get these simple concepts."

The fact is, you know, I had a teacher — I talk about her on the special for a minute, only because she died in our classroom.

(09:12) Derek reflects on how his diagnosis allowed him to forgive himself for his lifelong struggles with being misunderstood.

Laura: What?

Derek: She — I don't want to — I don't want to spoil it if you haven't watched the special, but my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Burnham, died in our classroom when she choked on a cough drop. But she was one of the first teachers I had the hardest time with — with math.

I am not a person that can read an instruction manual. I need someone to show me how to do it. That is how I learn. I did not realize that that's okay, because that wasn't acceptable when I was a kid, you know, that I have a different way of learning or, you know, taking in information. And I really felt like it was a personal failure and I just wasn't a smart person.

Mrs. Burnham saw that there was an issue. And so she secretly — she would say, "You, after everybody leaves, you come back in my classroom, and I'm going to show you how these concepts work. And we're going to learn them together because I think that's how you work."

And sure enough, I mean, it was like a light bulb went on because no one had ever just individually taken me aside and went, "Let me show you how these work because I'm not getting it in the room."

And you know, it's weird, I learned this concept — of all places, I was a brief prisoner at a Scientology school. I know. This is the life I have. See? And this is why I'm on the show.

I had a real hard time in elementary school. I nearly failed out of fifth and sixth grade. And so my mom decided to maybe private school, as hard as it would be financially for them, might be the best idea. And she looked up private schools, you know, in the phone book.

And so she asked for information and they sent her brochures and — she had no idea what Scientology was, but she knew that L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction author and she knew that I loved science fiction. So, she was like, "This is a perfect match. You love science fiction, this guy writes science fiction, it's a school."

Laura: Wait, this is the private school that you went to was the Scientology place? How did we get here, Derek? How did we get here?

Derek: So they came down, they interviewed me. It was actually very bad because it was one of the first times — I didn't know they were coming to town to interview me. And I had for the first time in my life had gotten a — I accidentally got drunk after school because someone gave me fruit punch after school that was laced with Everclear.

Laura: Okay.

Derek: They had mixed it with Everclear. So we're just hanging out and we're drinking fruit punch, and all of a sudden I'm like, "I don't think I can ride my bike anymore."

And then I had to kind of stumble home and then my mom's like, "Hey, this is Maureen and she's going to interview you for the private school." And I was like, "I'm never getting into this place. Like, I am hammered, I can't even make eye contact with this woman. I am so sick right now."

And of course they took me because it's Scientology. So I ended up going to Scientology school for two years in a 175-year-old monastery that L. Ron Hubbard bought and turned into a private school, which is still there.

Laura: This is the most ADHD story I've ever heard in my entire life.

Derek: This is my whole — this is my oeuvre.

Laura: I — you had me at Mrs. Burnham, may she rest in peace. Like wonderful Mrs. Burnham helping you in the classroom, right? And now I don't know how we got here.

Derek: Oh! Okay, so there is some feedback in the concept is what I learned at Scientology school was that the classroom is actually sociologically divided into sections. The students that are attentive and alert and are focused usually sit closer to the front of the classroom.

And then the students in the middle tend to be who will pick up concepts, but also, you know, aren't aggressive listeners, aggressive learners. Students in the back usually — they choose that section because they're usually the ones that have the hardest time focusing. And the ones that don't pick up on concepts as easily, and so they hide in the back.

The back is where we usually — and that's where I realized I always sat. Because I didn't want to get called on, I didn't want anybody to notice that I wasn't paying attention or taking notes. It's a great place to hide out. That concept actually really made sense to me when I learned it later on.

So, Mrs. Burnham recognized that I was a back-of-the-room kid. Once I started to comprehend some of these concepts and I started to realize that it's just — this is how I need to learn things. Then I started to excel at those things and it made me feel so much more valued. Because it finally dawned on me like, it's just that people don't understand that this is how I have to learn things.

(13:58) Derek discusses his anxiety disorder and panic attacks, noting how they are intertwined with his ADHD and need for control.

Laura: You have co-occurring diagnoses. And I would love to talk about the interplay between your other diagnoses with ADHD because it's common for ADHD to interact with things like anxiety. But also it's part of this bigger picture of who you are.

Derek: Yes. Anxiety disorder was a big one. And I know as a person who travels often that like, I started understanding that I'm having these, you know, I'm having anxiety attacks. I'm having, you know, panic attacks.

And these things happen when I feel a loss of control. And so learning how to, you know, manage my anxiety, either through medication but also, you know, meditating and understanding that like, these are things I'm powerless over. So I just have to breathe through it and realize it's temporary.

And, you know, I think for a short time I thought I might have to stop traveling and, you know, my mom was like, "Oh, take — you know, maybe we start medicating for it."

And I think I talked to my doctor early on and I was like, "I can't have anything that's addictive. I can't have anything that is going to affect my — I already have a loss of control." I have a fear of that. I have a fear of not being in control of things, which I think is a large part of my claustrophobia and my anxiety. And I think they're all tied together.

Laura: When I think about ADHD in this, you know, there's so many different layers that define who you are and not just diagnoses but all of your experiences too. Do you feel like the ADHD diagnosis was the most important diagnosis that you received?

Derek: Not necessarily. I think it was — in some ways it was — it was a "hat on a hat," really.

Laura: I like that. I like that.

Derek: I mean, it wasn't something I was unaware of, but I think I just needed confirmation. Which allowed me to progress with a different understanding of what, you know, my skill set and my — you know, and my abilities might be.

Now knowing that, I'm like, well, now I know that there are adjustments I can make in my daily routine and I have to understand that there are things outside of my control. And that, you know, it's just a thing I have to — now I have to learn how to, you know, drive with two steering wheels in the car and co-pilot.

You know, it answered a lot of questions for me. It answered a lot of questions, it made things clear. And I think it gave me some real peace, you know, with a lot of my past. Just my past and my — you know, growing up in a household that didn't understand that, and growing up in a time where it wasn't understood or recognized.

You know, and we were just called difficult and everything was stigmatizing and ostracizing. And I have to remember that like, I'm cool. I'm smart, I'm cool.

Laura: You are cool!

Derek: You know, all of these things in a way sort of helped, you know, mold the person I am. Regardless of my struggles, I'm okay and it's nice to know that like, dealing with all that, that I still came out on the other side of it and I can work with it. I can work with this.

Laura: Was hyperactivity part of your — or is it part of your ADHD profile?

Derek: Yeah! Yeah!

Laura: I ask because I feel like we — not intentionally, but we often now that we are kind of evolving in our understanding of ADHD and understand that like, women have ADHD too, and it might present differently.

There's a lot of like, "I always thought it was just boys who — like hyperactive little boys," and we end up like kind of minimizing it. Can you talk about your experience with hyperactivity?

Derek: Oh, I was a whirling dervish of — you know, of chaos as a kid. Like, and it was all of my report cards, which I — you know, I found the transcripts of all of my elementary school report cards, which were the early evidence that like something was up, you know?

Because all of the notes are like, "Can't pay attention in class, always overactive, talking, asking a lot of silly questions," you know, "the center of attention."

(18:52) Derek recounts how his hyperactive childhood, filled with silliness and attention-seeking, naturally transitioned into his career as a comedian.

Laura: Just like rip it out, put it in the DSM. Yeah.

Derek: I was always the class clown. I was the kid that would make everybody laugh. I was the kid that would make the teachers laugh. And that's what I was at home too. I mean, I was the kid at the dinner table who would have all the stories and talk with my mouth full.

But at the same time, I'd also be the kid who'd sit in his room and not do his homework and focus on sculpting a — you know, a head out of clay, you know? And I'd do that for six straight hours with no interruptions, you know? Just put music on my record player and work.

But, you know, people didn't see that. They just saw the fact that my productivity where they were focused wasn't high. But early on, yeah, I mean, I was a very disruptive force. And it was just me expelling — that's how I expelled energy. I'm still friends with all of my childhood friends and —

Laura: Oh wow. Good for you.

Derek: And they remember how I was, you know? That it made sense to them that I became a comedian. But they also saw me as a very chaotic force. You know, and their stories about me talking to me were like, "Remember when you did this weird thing and you just went nuts," you know, "in the classroom?"

Laura: What's your favorite story that they brought up, the "remember back when"?

Derek: Oh man. They all have versions of the same story from different — you know, different places, which is me interrupting a classroom and taking control of the class and pushing the teacher to a point where they were almost, you know, ready to commit violence.

Laura: I mean, again, bless Mrs. Burnham. She was lovely.

Derek: She was one of the — I mean, the rare — just the rare gem, you know, in a coal mine of my youth.

Laura: "A coal mine of my youth." How does your hyperactivity manifest today?

Derek: I understand now that it's a power that I can control. I know when to use it and when not to use it. I think I'm more well-trained on how to know when the environment can use, you know, Big Derek as opposed to Little Derek.

And to be an adult, but I think I've also learned how to harness that into creative energy. So, like my hyperactivity now comes out in things like I cook, you know? I taught myself how to cook a few years ago and that energy gets focused into areas where I can compartmentalize.

You know, like yesterday my whole family got together. I have my family in town. And I just put on music that I like and, you know, in three and a half hours I had two salads, I made my own Caesar dressing, I had two hanger steaks that I reverse seared and then had them ready so I could cook them off when we got to the house.

I made orecchiette with a fennel sausage that I ground. I ground my own sausage. I did three and a half pounds of rainbow chard, got it all washed, cleaned, prepped. Everything was reduced, I put everything together in to-go containers. And then I packed everything up and by 5:30 I was like, "Okay, we're ready to go."

Now that I understand I'm working with an extra steering wheel, that I now know how to sort of, you know, adjust and focus my energy into what I need to do and allow myself, you know, the space to drift focus if I have to.

So, I don't have the crazy manic energy. I mean, even, you know, that definitely comes out on stage where I am way more controlled.

Laura: Well, I did want to ask you about on stage and how ADHD impacts your performance and also, like, do you talk about ADHD in your comedy?

Derek: I have started, yes. I think I even talk about it at the beginning of the special now.

Laura: Tell the listeners about your special.

Derek: Well, it's called "Unrelatable." You know, everything we've talked about today, it's in that oeuvre of talking about things that I always thought made me very unrelatable because the way that I tell a story and the manner in which I tell a story because I don't have a direct line. I usually have six narratives that I — I have to go —

Laura: What do you mean? That hasn't happened today. What are you talking about?

Derek: That hasn't happened once! So, it's very much about things that I thought would be unrelatable, but in the end they turn out to be incredibly relatable because they're just — they're human experiences. And it's how I interpret them. Because I find the humor in things that most people would tend to ignore or be afraid of.

Laura: Best comedy.

Derek: It's the best. I think it's weirdly recuperative. Because if you are handling something that's difficult, it's nice to hear somebody talk from a perspective where they can have some control over the narrative and also show you a side of that that you may not have examined before that makes you go, "Oh, okay. I'm not alone and it's okay that I laughed at this. It's okay I had this, you know, this intrusive thought at a funeral."

It's okay to have these things because I'm not alone. It's wholly relatable. We think that we're unrelatable because it happens to us and we internalize and singularize our experiences. But we are all cut from the same cloth. So, nothing about us is wholly unique.

And so when you put it out in the open, you realize, "Oh, I'm saying this and everybody's reacting to it. So, therefore, I'm not unrelatable." And so the ADHD comes up and because I got diagnosed very late in life and the joke is that's because I finally showed up for my appointment.

Laura: Nice. I really enjoyed spending time with you today and you took me down some wild rides, so I appreciate that.

Derek: Welcome to the Derek Sheen experience.

Laura: Everybody check out Derek's special, "Unrelatable," you can find it on YouTube. And thanks again, Derek, for spending this time with me.

Derek: Thank you so much.

Laura: Thanks for listening today. As always, if you want to share your own aha moment, email us at ADHDaha@understood.org or send a message to our voicemail inbox. You'll find a link in the show notes, along with resources and links to anything we mentioned in the episode.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people navigating neurodivergence. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give.

"ADHD Aha!" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine!

Jessamine Molli: Hi everyone!

Laura: And edited by Alyssa Shea. Video is produced by Calvin Knie. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright. Production support provided by Andrew Rector. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. From Understood.org, our executive producers are Scott Cocchiere and Jordan Davidson. And I'm your host, Laura Key. Thanks so much for listening.