My full-circle ADHD experience (Laura’s story, continued)

On this 100th episode of ADHD Aha!, host Laura Key looks back on the powerful conversations she’s had with guests from all walks of life about their unique ADHD experiences. She also opens up about a deeply personal new chapter: her 9-year-old daughter’s recent ADHD diagnosis. Laura reflects on what this milestone means for her both as a mom and a person with ADHD.   

Joining Laura is her friend, co-worker, and Hyperfocus podcast host, Rae Jacobson. Together, they explore how Laura’s understanding of ADHD has evolved over the course of the show — and how she’s navigating the emotions of raising a child who shares her diagnosis.

Want to share your “aha” moment? We love hearing from our listeners. Email us at ADHDAha@understood.org.

• ADHD, anxiety, and perfectionism (Laura’s story)

• ADHD in girls

• My child with ADHD can’t fall asleep. But I’m so tired. What can I do? 

(00:50) What has it been like making 100 episodes of ADHD Aha!?

(03:03) Laura’s daughter’s diagnoses, and being a mom with ADHD

(08:21) Laura’s daughter’s ADHD and anxiety evaluation

(10:51) Sleep and ADHD parenting challenges

(12:19) Feeling the pressure to be a “perfect ADHD mom”

(14:14) How hard it can be to be a kid with ADHD

(16:40) Keeping ADHD mom perfectionism in check

(20:58) Has Laura’s outlook on ADHD changed throughout making this show?

Laura: All of these wonderful conversations with our wonderful guests have really solidified for me that it's very real. You know, I kind of like, what did we even talk about for a hundred episodes straight? And now I'm like, I feel like we could do a hundred more because there are so many different angles to this and so many ways that it manifests for different people.

This is "ADHD Aha!," a podcast where people share the moment when it finally clicked that they have ADHD. My name is Laura Key. I head up our editorial team here at Understood.org, and as someone who's had my own ADHD "aha" moment, I'll be your host.

Hi, Rae.

Rae: Hi, Laura.

Laura: It's the 100th episode of "ADHD Aha!"

Rae: That is wild.

Laura: It is wild, and I couldn't think of anyone else I'd rather celebrate it with than you. My dear friend and colleague, let me introduce you, Rae Jacobson, host of the fantastic "Hyperfocus" podcast and just all-around wonderful editor, journalist, person, fellow lady with ADHD. Rae, how many episodes of "Hyperfocus" have you done?

Rae: Oh my gosh, not anywhere near 100. Eight, maybe?

Laura: Can I come on your hundredth episode of "Hyperfocus"? Can we agree to that right now?

Rae: Yes, 100%. And also, I love your both faith and enthusiasm, I'll take it. What has this been like? What is it like to have all this under your belt?

Laura: I just remember that, you know, I was diagnosed at 30, as listeners know. I talked about my diagnosis story on the very first episode of "ADHD Aha!," and that episode happened, I think, when I was 40. So, it was 10 years post-diagnosis for me. And it was probably the first time I ever spoke publicly about having ADHD. It was never my intention to be so public about my diagnosis and my experiences.

But I'm really glad that I decided to give it a go because it's been really rewarding and when I talk to guests, it's just like, there's so many cathartic moments and I feel like their listeners are probably getting tired of me saying, "Oh yeah, I can totally relate to that," but it's true. I mean, and that's the purpose of the show.

But I love to hear people's stories. You know, sometimes I worry that through the interview, people are gonna think, you know, is Laura trying to be a therapist? Is Laura trying be an expert? This and that, because I'm neither.

Rae: But I think that's like kind of, I don't know, it's one of the things I love about "Aha!," and it's also one of things I loved just about knowing you, which is like when you meet other people with ADHD, you kind of feel that thing of like, "Oh, this person gets it," which is what a therapist and an expert gives you. But it's what a friend gives you, which is "Oh, I don't feel so alone anymore. I actually feel like this is where I'm supposed to be, and this is the conversation I want to be having, and I feel good about myself in a way I didn't used to."

Laura: Yeah, it's been pretty incredible. And we've gotten so much nice feedback from our listeners. Thank you to everybody who listens and writes in. We're gonna keep going because it seems like it's still resonating with people. So, this is not a farewell episode, lest you were worried. This is not a final episode. This is just a milestone episode.

And there have been some other milestones in my life and in my family's life that it was weird that, oh, my 100th episode's coming up and this big thing just happened in my life, which is that. My daughter, my nine-year-old, soon-to-be 10-year-old, was just diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety, like her old mom.

Rae: Like mother, like daughter. Wow.

Laura: Yeah, I don't know what I believe in about this, but the fact that I talked about my story in the very first episode, and here we are at 100 episodes, and literally my daughter got diagnosed like a month ago. It was just interesting, I'll just put it that way. And we really struggled with, how are we gonna address this on this episode of the show?

We had a number of different plans that kind of fell down for very valid reasons. One of which was, I thought about for a while, maybe I interview Cece on the show. And maybe I record the day of her evaluation and I actually did that. We were on the path to doing all of this and making it like a full-blown storytelling kind of narrative. But I don't know, after a lot of reflection, I thought that even though she was gung-ho, she really wanted to come on. Maybe she's not really sure what she's getting herself into and I didn't think that that would be fair to her in the long run.

Rae: But also, one of the things you're so good at with your guests and just in general is letting people choose to tell their story in the way that they want. And I could see bringing Cece on when she was like excited, but maybe not ready wouldn't really fit with that pattern.

Laura: And she also just does have that much to say. She's at this age now, she's in this like pre preteen stage where I ask her a question and she just goes "Meh." I don't know where she learned "Meh." Why are the kids saying "Meh"?

Rae: I still get flack from my parents when they would ask me how my day was, I would say, "day like."

Laura: You were such a goth.

Rae: Literal one. I'll be paying for it forever.

Laura: Yeah, so she would just like be "meh-ing" in her way through the interview, and I was like, I don't know. That sounds exhausting.

Rae: Well, can I ask you, I have a daughter who's seven, and Cece and Alice have met before and terrorized our office in office visit.

Laura: It will go down in the history of Understood. Yeah.

Rae: Because we forgot there were rolling chairs, and our office is basically a giant loop, so...

Laura: We received a stern warning.

Rae: Yeah, we were chastised. But you're like a mom mentor to me in a lot of ways, because Cece's a couple of years older. We both have ADHD, and we talk a lot about what it's like to be moms with ADHD, and how hard it can be, and how great it can, and all the complicated pieces that go into it. So, when you told me that Cece had been diagnosed... and you know, we're looking at it for Alice, I'm really curious, what has this been like for you as a mom?

Laura: I thought it would be more intense than it was. And part of that is because I'm really fortunate that her pediatrician actually does evaluations, right? So, I know that so many parents out there, parents and caregivers have to wait so long to even get in the door. And then there's also the price barriers that come with that. So, we didn't have any of those obstacles. So, again, really grateful for that. Honestly, I think that I maybe put it off for like a year or so because I was just dreading waiting for an appointment and finding someone. Because I didn't ask my pediatrician the question. So, maybe that's a good tip, like ask your pediatrician the question, maybe they actually do these.

And then even from an emotional standpoint, the actual process of the evaluation and what came immediately after was also not as intense as I thought it would be. And that's probably because I have so much awareness of these things. I'm assuming I'd been looking for these signs for so long, not like seeking them out, like I was making them up or anything like that. But I had been taking note of them for so long and kind of taking some steps in my own way prior to all of that. But if anything, the emotional process of going through that, it was almost like I want to do it right.

Rae: Yeah.

Laura: I want have all the right conversations and I want make sure that I let her know that, you know, it's nothing to be ashamed of and this is great. We're going to learn about your brain. And I'm saying that a little tongue in cheek. Those are all good things to do. And we did all of that. And it was almost like I didn't even need to, because I think I've been having these conversations with her all along the way. And like she knows what I do for a living, and this and that.

And it really heartening and almost jarring — I wonder if you relate to this, Rae — because she was so like nonchalant. She wasn't worried about it at all. She was like, "I know that it's OK if my brain is different. I don't feel ashamed of it. I have friends with ADHD. We talk about our ADHD." What a different experience than we went through, Rae.

Rae: I know. I know it's kind of amazing because I hear this again and again and again that it's the polar opposite of what it was like for you and I, which was like, "So you have ADHD, and?" You know, like it was whispered, it was like a bad thing.

Laura: Right, well, you were diagnosed younger than I was, right?

Rae: I was diagnosed at 21, but I had, from like a very young age at LDNOS, which is learning disability not otherwise specified.

Laura: Right, code for ADHD.

Rae: Right, it's code for, you're a girl with ADHD.

Laura: Right.

Rae: You know, even then it was, I remember being like, "There's something wrong with me." It took me years, decades, to climb into that space and be like, "No, no, I'm happy with my brain and who I am." And yeah, when I try to tell Alice about her brain, she's like, "Yeah, I know." It just doesn't bother her in the same way.

Laura: There was something funny that happened that I only noticed after the evaluation because as I mentioned before, I do have these recordings of us waiting for the evaluation to start. And listening to it, I'm hearing Cece jump around on all these different tangents. And at one point she goes, "When are they gonna come in? It's been like a half an hour." And I'm like, "No, it's only been like two minutes." And then, when I went back and listened to the tape, I was like, it was actually 15 minutes. We were both wildly wrong.

Rae: That's really funny.

Laura: I have to say it was a little bit jarring to see Cece's self-evaluation for anxiety. I had ranked her pretty high in the scores. She ranked herself really, really high. And the doctor eventually was like "Yeah, I definitely see ADHD. But what I'm more concerned about right now is the anxiety and the intrusive thoughts that she's having."

So, ultimately that's what we decided to treat first and to focus on first and I kind of had mixed feelings about that because I'm like I know this is like how it goes for girls and women. It's like you're told you have anxiety and then we ignore ADHD forever but that wasn't really the tenor of this. It was a really really thoughtful approach and I felt very seen and validated with both of her sets of symptoms, the anxiety and the ADHD.

Rae: It's so interesting that you say that too, because to what you were saying before about her being like comfortable with having ADHD, like a lot of that anxiety that we talk about is often because people feel a lot of shame or like distress around their ADHD symptoms. And it doesn't sound like Cece felt that. It sounds like the anxiety is truly like a separate piece.

Laura: Yeah. You know, I didn't actually see her teacher's assessment, but the doctor told me that the teachers didn't really see anything. And I was not that surprised by it because I had had a parent-teacher conference in which they kind of shared the same thing. They're like, "No, she's doing great. She's so well-behaved," and this and that. But what I see when she comes home, or what I was seeing, because we've actually had a lot of progress since then, what I seeing is like this just despair upon arrival and a child who didn't believe that she's as smart as she is, doing as well as she is.

And this is nothing against her teachers, you know, they've got like bigger fish to fry probably. But it was kind of crazy to see all of these things that I hear throughout all of these interviews, through these 100 interviews that we've done for "ADHD Aha!," kind of coming to life through my daughter. She's masking, she's masking at school. And then she's coming home where she feels safe and she's, you know, releasing.

And as we've talked about a million times, Rae, the sleep stuff has been the biggest thing, like so much frustration.

I remember coming to you at one point in the office and being like, "When does this end? Like, when do I get to have a full night's sleep? When is bedtime just, 'OK, good night?'" Like her sleep stuff was really spiking, which was a lot of what finally compelled me to request the evaluation. She was suffering.

Rae: It's funny how that stuff plays out because at some point it's like it has to be so disruptive to become something that like comes to the forefront like, no one is sleeping. It's almost like it has to push up through the entire family system in order to be like "OK, we have, absolutely have to do something about this."

Laura: Yeah, totally. And it's funny to talk so lightheartedly about it right now because in the moment, it is so awful and painful for everyone and you become a person that you don't want to be. And you're frustrated. You're exhausted. And like I would get mean and I was yelling. I mean, it's just the whole family system was just like put into jeopardy.

Rae: You become somebody that you're like, "Why am I doing this?" It's like, we've talked about this before, like it's like you're sitting in the back of your head being like, "Oh no, no, that's not what we wanna say." And yet you're still like, "You need to get in bed."

Laura: Or like me, looking at my husband and being like "You shouldn't say anything like this to her" and then me like two seconds later, saying that exact thing. And he's looking at me, he's like, "What are you doing?"

Rae: And exhaustion, I mean, you know, it's not like we sleep that well as women with ADHD anyway. I mean, it compounds everything so much.

Laura: And it's interesting because as we talk about this, like these are things again that I had awareness of before the evaluation, but I'm telling you there really is something about that validation, and also having her hear from someone other than me. And then, and I know how this might make me look, but as a parent, I'm like, I don't want her to think that this is just like, "We're done now. You don't have to work on these things. We don't to find coping strategies." Like I didn't want ADHD to become an excuse.

Rae: It's a reason but it's not an excuse, like it's like "Oh now I get it," but not like "OK, now I can stop."

Laura: And when it's your own kid, the feelings just seem so much more complicated. I've talked to so many parents on the show and it's like, you can look at it so much more clearly and say exactly like what you just said. But in the moment, I'm just like, "No, she's gonna use it as an excuse" and like that "I have to be like the model ADHD mom because I host a podcast about ADHD, so she better get to work," right? But like, together she and I are finding that middle ground.

Rae: I think about this a lot because, like I said, with Alice, like she's got terrible executive functioning and I know what it is, but I don't always know what to do.

Laura: I know. And we write about this stuff and we talk about this every day.

Rae: I think in some ways this should like let other parents off the hook because it's like even if you have all the information, it's still really tough.

Laura: I mean, coming out of the evaluation and getting the official letter with the diagnosis, it actually did really help. I shared that information with her teachers, and we may or may not pursue a 504 plan. I'm not sure yet, but like when I tell them, like when she's doodling, she's actually paying attention, there's something backing that. And I've already started to notice just informally, like Cece came home the other day and she's like, "Yeah, the teachers gave me a job. I get to be the homework checker." That made such a huge difference for her to be able to like get up in the middle of class and do that task for her teachers.

Rae: And that's a creative way to do that, to build movement into, with like it's, she feels like she's got a job, you know, it's responsible, and she's excited.

Laura: Yeah, I just, it's also like created a lot of empathy in me for like how hard it is to be a kid. I work at an office where like I can like stand up and play with my fidget like this all day, and I can go to the bathroom whenever I want and we take those things for granted.

Rae: I think about that all the time.

Laura: Yeah. Cece has told me like "I feel trapped at my desk."

Rae: As a kid, I hated school and had a lot of strong feelings about it, but watching my kid hate school feels different. I wish it didn't have to be like this. It's like kind of a short jump from hating school to feeling like you might hate learning, and I don't want that to happen. And, you know, Alice, like, she started writing us notes about hating school when she was, like very little, so she couldn't spell, so they all said, "I hat school." I have like a stack of notes that say, "I hat school."

Laura: So cute.

Rae: It's, like very sweet and very heartbreaking, you know, as most things children do are. And, you know, but it's, I find myself coming back to this again and again and again, that like, something like being the homework checker. These little things that mean that the feelings that we had when we were kids aren't gonna repeat. Because, like you said, it is really hard for kids. And when you think about it, a lot of what's hard to be a kid is that you don't have control over your life and you can't do the things that you want to do and you don't understand why that is.

And, just by nature of being a child, you're in a world not geared for you. And Cecie I've met her, she's like a very vibrant person. Like, the first time I met her, she was like, "Hello, you work for my mom." And I was like "Oh, hello, precocious child." Like, "Hi." And she's, you know, like she's not a shy kid. She's super smart. Immediately, you notice that, and she makes this beautiful art and she was just like, "I'm making homework for my brother." She was such an assured feeling person. But I could also see she was in a group where she was being herself, naturally and comfortably.

And you know when you see a kid in that flow mode of just being who they are, it's beautiful. And, you know, it becomes something that becomes a problem only when it confronts the rules of the world, right? Like adult rules, like go to sleep or do your homework, or don't do that. And I don't know about you, but I feel like so much of being a parent is finding space where they can be the person that they are, the creature that they, which is how I think of Alice a lot of the time. It's like sort of like a little creature, and also understand like what they need to do to navigate the world in a way that doesn't feel so like full of endless friction.

Laura: Part of this has been a call to action for me as well, and not in like a super pressure cooker kind of way. I'm trying to check myself because I think I said this before., I'm like, I need to have a model ADHD child because of, you know, what I do when I host this podcast and whatnot. And I went back to the first episode that was on "ADHD Aha!" and like the perfectionism that I struggled with and still struggle with and just some old journals and whatnot, and things kind of came to a head with Cece's basketball season in the last month or so. She's a talented athlete and I can see a lot of potential for her there.

And man, they just start younger and younger. Like, "Yeah, we're gonna be on multiple teams and we're going to practice three times a week." And it was just getting to be so much. And I have to give so much credit to her. Like they wanted to extend the season to go like an extra few months, and all of her friends are gonna do it. But she was like, "Mom, I'm not gonna love the game if I keep playing, I need a break."

Rae: Wow.

Laura: And everything in me wanted to push her to say, "No, you need to keep going or else you're gonna fall behind." And we both agreed that no, we were gonna just take the season off, the next season off. Which doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it was a very big decision for us.

Rae: No, it seems like a big deal.

Laura: And I was like, it's one of my proudest things ever in my momhood was just like being like, "Yeah, who cares, you're nine. You don't need to play basketball all year round. And you can still be great."

Rae: I love that so much. I love that you were able to do that and that she was able to do that. I mean, I don't know how old you were when you learned to speak up for yourself and set smart boundaries, but for me, it was like yesterday.

Laura: No, I was just going to say, I still can't do it.

Rae: Yeah, it's like an ongoing thing. And when I think about, like, what do I wish my kid could learn? That's a big part of it. I struggle with it, Alice does not like social gatherings, and she has all these lovely friends, and they'll invite us, and she'll go and she'll literally sit in a corner and read during a party, which sounds kind of like adorable Wednesday Adams behavior. So, I do co-sign it. But at the same time, you're like, "Everyone else is playing. Don't you want to go do the thing?" And she's like, "No." And it makes me so viscerally uncomfortable and distressed.

And like I know you've talked to me about this, like you were really involved in sports when you were younger and you were like really great at like doing, you know? And it sounds like you lived up to the hilt in part because that was how you masked. That was how handled your ADHD was by like showing up continuously and perfectly all the time, regardless of how much like distress was under the surface. And for me, it was like I am very, I like people, and I like being around people and I like socializing with people. I like getting in the mix and like those kind of situations are like where I feel like I am unmasked and like thriving and having a good time.

And to watch my kid do the opposite or need the opposite is like hard to understand because you're like, "No, no. This is where you can be you. You get to thrive now," right? "Let's all go to the party or let's all play the next season of basketball, because this is how we show we have value." And it's so tough to not only like see like the things where they need help, but to also be like, "Oh, what you're going to need to do to like navigate your ADHD and yourself is very different than what I needed" and to be OK with that. And the boundary piece of it is, to me, it feels like, "Oh, you're already way more advanced than I was." Like it's like a thing that like both frustrates and impresses me.

Laura: Yeah, I completely agree. There's a challenge for me to not project too much of what my experience is because it's hard. You know, she's my daughter, number one, and we have the same diagnosis, diagnoses. And, you know, even though I'm not an expert, like I have gained a certain amount of knowledge about this disorder and how it impacts your life. And for me, just like the, no, we'll take the season off was like my equivalent of writing a PhD thesis. That was hard for me, but I know it's the right decision.

Rae: Did it hit in that spot you were talking about before of being like, "I don't want you to use your ADHD as an excuse"? Like I could see how those things would sort of loop into each other.

Laura: Totally. Yeah. And I used to push myself so much all the time, like too much. And when I reflect back, I probably would have been a much happier kid if I didn't do that so much. And so, I hope that in some way I can help her have a better balance than I probably had as a kid.

Rae: I have a genuine question that I wondered at many times after listening to the show, which is like, through this whole time, has the way that you view ADHD, like your own, and just like generally changed after hearing so many people's really personal stories?

Laura: I think I've just grown much more self-aware, because people will say things, and I'll be like, I didn't even realize that that was something that I do as well. And even the meta exercise of, because of the shortage, like sometimes I'm doing my interviews while I'm medicated and sometimes I am doing them when I'm not, and just seeing how I navigate an interview with, you know, whether or not I have chemistry on my side. Like all of these wonderful conversations with our wonderful guests have really solidified for me, crystallized that it's very real. You know, and that sounds kind of a boring answer, but it's the truth.

I, you know, I kind of like, what did we even talk about for a hundred episodes straight? And now I'm like, I feel like we could do a hundred more because there are so many different angles to this and so many ways that it manifests for different people. Yeah, so just the reality of it has really come through and that helps me feel a little bit nicer towards myself, I guess I would say.

I mean, a hundred hours of conversation, because I don't know if everybody knows, but we record for an hour, sometimes more, and then we edit down the shows. Like a hundred of conversations about people struggling with this and grappling with that same question of, is this real? Like, am I allowed to be bad at this or to struggle with X, Y, and Z and not feel guilty? And a hundred hours of me telling people, "No, you don't need to feel guilty." Even if like 2% of that has sunk in, Like, that's a big change.

Rae: I mean, I think about the emails that I've seen that you've received from listeners and one that stood out to me that I saw a couple days ago and I won't say it verbatim because I can't remember it, but it was basically like listening to this episode is the sole reason I decided to seek a diagnosis. This sounded so familiar that I actually went out and called my doctor, and like I sent email down a line, but that's a huge change to make in someone's life just by having been present and being a good listener and being open to having conversations that people usually don't have it all. What does that feel like when you that?

Laura: It feels really good, but I, and, not but, and I can only imagine whoever that person was who sent that in, how much work they've been doing up into that point. And maybe it's just a tipping point, right? "Oh, I heard this conversation, and then now I will." So, it's really a testament to everyone who's writing in and everybody who's listening because they're the ones seeking it out and they're, the ones doing the work. I'm just having fun conversations with everybody and sometimes laughing, sometimes crying with everybody.

Rae: First I'm going to acknowledge the instant self-deprecation and brushing aside of the compliment that occurred.

Laura: You've been giving me a lot of compliments, this is really awkward.

Rae: It's your 100th episode. Deal. But also, like what we were saying before, is like, "Aha!" is a place of community. You made a world where people can come, if they're at that tipping point, or way before it, or way after it, and say like, "Ahh," you know? It's like, it's not just "aha," it like "Ahh."

Laura: Aw, that's so nice, I love that. Well, that's how I felt when I knew that I was gonna be talking to you for this episode, and lord only knows if I've made any sense. You've made perfect sense because you always speak so beautifully but...

Rae: I just feel so privileged that I got to come on here and do this with you because I genuinely, before I really got to spend much time with you, I was an admirer of the show. And then to be able to watch you work at this and see how much of an impact it makes in this vast community that you've built over a hundred episodes is amazing.

It can feel really lonely having ADHD for all the reasons that we've been talking about. And I think about all maybe the other parents who are like... my kid might be going through this, or I just started going through. There's so many different people who come to this from so many places, and you've been this consistent home for a lot of us. And it's really wonderful.

Laura: That means a lot to me, Rae. Thank you so much, and I'm so proud of my daughter. We already had a really special bond, really unique bond, and I feel like it has deepened and gotten more fraught, both at the same time, but in good ways, right? It's deep. It's really deep.

Rae: She's such an amazing kid, too. She's such a like, just like a shining kid. You meet her, and it's impossible to not see the specialness of her.

Laura: Yeah. She's pretty great. I have a little bit of a worry that maybe I've painted too rosy of a picture of the whole process for our listeners. And it's just where I am today. It's really hard. There have been some really rough moments throughout all of this, a lot of them around like, I struggle with executive function, so how am I going to help her learn executive function skills and learn coping strategies?

But all in all, just the process and having it validated, it's given me more confidence as a mom. Like, "Oh no, I was right. I was right." And parents, you usually are right. You know your kid better than anybody else, so.

Rae: Yeah, you were right, and you were looking out for your kid.

Laura: Yeah, I was. Thank you so much, Rae. It's been awesome. And thank you to everybody who's been listening to the show. I mean, we've really, we've been blown away by everything that you've all said to us, by your continued listening. So, keep listening. We've got some good ones coming up.

Thanks for listening today. As always, if you want to share your own "aha" moment, email us at adhdaha@understood.org. I'd love to hear from you. And check out the show notes for this episode. We have more resources and links to anything we mentioned in the episode.

This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Understood is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want us to help us continue this work, donate at Understood.org/give.

"ADHD Aha!" is produced and edited by Jessamine Molli. Say hi, Jessamine!

Jessamine: Hi, everyone.

Laura: And Margie DeSantis.

Margie: Hey, hey.

Laura: Video was produced by Calvin Knie. Our theme music was written by Justin D. Wright, who also mixes the show. Samiah Adams is our supervising producer. Briana Berry is our production director. Neil Drumming is our editorial director. From Understood.org, our executive directors are Scott Cocchiere and Seth Melnick. And I'm your host, Laura Key.