We didn’t know we had ADHD. Then motherhood hit.

Two experts in ADHD went decades without realizing they had it themselves. Katie Severson, a speech pathologist, and Lori Long, a child psychologist, co-run The Childhood Collective and host the Shining With ADHD podcast. But both received their own ADHD diagnoses only after becoming mothers. They talk about late diagnosis, the shame that came before it, and how it shapes their parenting.

• Listen: Shining With ADHD

• Watch: I’m an ADHD expert. My kid still can’t get help.

Kate Severson: I remember my friends like telling me you have to come to a place at 5:00 p.m. when they were planning on getting there at 6:00 because they knew I would be an hour late. And I'm like, oh yeah, we still do that a little bit.

Jessica Shaw: Kate Severson and Lori Long run the "Childhood Collective", an organization that offers courses and resources for parents of kids with ADHD. They also host a parenting podcast called "Shining with ADHD".

Lori is a child psychologist, Kate is a speech pathologist, they've been working in this space for years, and they both have neurodivergent kids. But they only recently got diagnosed with ADHD themselves. The turning point for both of them was motherhood.

Kate: If I could go back, I would have placed myself a little bit more as a priority and I would have focused on that a lot sooner. There are many moms out there that are in the same experience — like putting yourself on the back burner. But it's honestly hard to be like the mom that you want to be when you aren't getting the tools that you need.

This is "Everyone Gets a Juice Box". I'm Jessica Shaw, and today we hear from Kate and Lori about parenting with ADHD and how their family lives have changed since getting diagnosed.

Can you each tell me a little bit about your own diagnosis, when you got diagnosed with ADHD? Because these weren't diagnoses that you got as children. So, Kate, let's start with you.

Kate: Yeah, absolutely. So I was diagnosed just a couple of years ago, and I was definitely deep into the trenches of motherhood at that point. Growing up, I was definitely kind of, you know, your classic oldest daughter — definitely an overachiever. I did really well in school. I don't think that anyone really picked up on the ADHD piece.

In the ADHD literature they'll say, you know, kids or adults that feel like they're being run by a motor. And I think I do really legitimately experience that. Like, it's hard for me to turn off, it's hard for me to settle in or rest. But it was in a way sort of, I guess, adaptive up until the point when it wasn't.

And so, I have two kids and I'm married and, you know, young kids especially, it's just a lot of chaos. And so I was doing all the things but on the outside people would even say, even close friends would say, I just feel like you're doing so well — but it did not feel like that to me on the inside at all.

And so I ended up going and seeing a therapist for a little bit and we worked on anxiety. But after a period of time, I just felt like I was still struggling. And so she actually recommended that I go talk with a psychiatrist about some medication. But when I went in and talked to the psychiatrist, he was great.

He sat with me for hours, actually — like an hour and a half, two hours — did a bunch of family history. And a lot of people in my family do have ADHD. So I shared that with him, but I was like, it's not me. I'm the organized one. But by the end of that long conversation, he sort of gently said, you know, have you ever considered hyperactive ADHD?

And I was really genuinely surprised, but as he explained his thought process to me, it started to make a lot of sense. So the core of it was that I was just really ruminating on things and my brain would not shut off. Right? When you're little and you have hyperactivity, it's really obvious. You just run around and somersault everywhere and skin your knees.

And it's like, oh wow, that kid is like a blur. But as an adult, you learn to hold your body together — for the most part.

Jessica: Is that what you meant when you said that you had adaptive — that you kind of keep it together and you've figured out how to adapt as far as like, okay, this is how my mind works, but I'm still going to do these things like, as you said, be the organized one?

Kate: Yeah, and I think that I — because I was able to channel it into looking really productive, it doesn't seem odd. Like when you watch — we had someone on our podcast recently who was talking about a duck — and the duck is just gliding on the water and it looks so peaceful, and then underneath the water, those little legs are just paddling a mile a minute.

And when she said that, I got teary and I was like, yes, I'm the duck. And it was just an internal chaos. And I'm very good at finding solutions for other people with ADHD, but I almost couldn't give myself permission. So that diagnosis was just a really big change for me and my family.

Jessica: Lori, were you — describe your duck. Were you also a duck? What was going on in the water underneath your paddling?

Lori Long: I'm sort of the opposite of Kate in the sense that my diagnosis actually came late also. So I was just diagnosed a year ago, actually. But I am an inattentive presentation. It's so interesting because we'll talk to families all the time and they'll say, you know, they have one child diagnosed with like hyperactive-impulsive symptoms, and they don't recognize the inattentive child in the family because it looks so different.

And if you were with Kate and I, you would be like, gosh, they're so completely different. I had an older brother who was diagnosed with ADHD and he had a combined presentation and he had very severe symptoms. And so again, like my parents really struggled with him his whole life and he did have a very kind of hard experience.

And again, I was kind of just like an easy kid for the most part. I, you know, homework was hard for me and I just never probably never got it done because I couldn't focus in school. And, you know, I was getting detentions every weekend because I was late for school every single day. When I went to grad school, I learned about ADHD for the first time and realized that there was this inattentive presentation.

(07:22) How ADHD symptoms affect their parenting and relationships with their children.

Lori: I remember talking to one of my friends and we would share like, oh my gosh, that's us 100%. And I think that was the first time I kind of realized, oh yeah, this is probably what I'm — I've been dealing with. And it was the same thing with Kate where it's like you have kids and then everything is amplified. Yes. Because now you are the mental load for a lot of things going on in your family and trying to work.

And then when I had my second daughter, I started my own business. That's when everything kind of started to really show up in a really hard way.

Jessica: It's interesting to me because, Kate, you have ADHD in the home also. And, Lori, your kids have OCD and anxiety. And you both work in careers, in professions, in addition to being podcast hosts, where you work with kids with ADHD and with other developmental issues. In light of that, it's interesting to me, especially Lori, that you got this diagnosis just a year ago because you're kind of — you're surrounded by so much.

Is it surprising to you that you waited that long to get a diagnosis?

Lori: Yes. And I think there were many times when, you know, I was in marriage therapy and we're doing therapy because I can't keep a schedule and my husband is extremely frustrated by it. And my therapist was kind of like, you know, people with ADHD can like be very successful, so it might be something you want to look into.

And part of it was just like every time I'd start the process, then like my daughter needs therapy. And these things are so costly, right? Like going in to get an evaluation and getting your kids the help that they need — it costs a lot of money. Or other things are going on and it gets — you put yourself on the back burner.

Right? It was really impacting our marriage to the point where he's reading books on how to be married to somebody with ADHD and, you know, like we already kind of know that I probably have it, right? But I was at the point where I'm like, I really do think I need medication as a tool. And that's really what prompted it.

But yeah, for a long time I told myself, yes, I have these symptoms, but maybe it doesn't impact me to a significant degree. And that's kind of what I told myself since I was 24 and learned about inattentive ADHD. Until your kids are starting to recognize it. Your family's like, oh yeah, you have ADHD.

Jessica: I'm curious about what you said your kids noticed.

Lori: Oh, absolutely.

Jessica: They sort of diagnosed you before your diagnosis.

Lori: To be honest, that's really what — I'm going to get emotional talking about it, but...

Jessica: That's okay.

Lori: Yeah, I mean, like we'd be sitting in the car and they'd say mom five times and I — like there's nothing else even going on around me. And I can't focus — like I become so hyper-focused on whatever I'm thinking about or whatever. Like I don't even know that they're saying my name. So when parents say to me all the time they're like, I will say my kid's name five times and they don't respond, they're being defiant — like I understand that because I still experience it.

And it drives my husband crazy, it drives my kids crazy, and I feel so bad, but it is so hard for me to shift my attention and focus sometimes — like very, very hard.

Jessica: And not in a malicious way. Like your heart wants to give it to them and of course you want to be there. How did that kind of inform your dynamic? Were you able to sort of share the diagnosis and then say, guys, let me explain to you why some of these things that frustrate you — like what's — what are the ingredients of that?

Lori: I love that you asked that because it is something that I talk openly about now. And I had so much shame about it that I was like — there was something really wrong with me that I couldn't do this thing — like I couldn't pay attention to somebody calling my name five times, right? And now I have it — I can say to my kids, this isn't you, this isn't something wrong with you, mom has a hard time with my attention.

And I love you to death. This isn't something you're doing wrong or whatever. So it is something that we talk about and in — honestly, above all other things, I think that is the most helpful for me to be able to have that conversation with my kids to relieve some of the shame in myself to just own up and say like, this is hard for me and I can and I will try and work on it.

And I am going to try and make it better. I'm not going to just say like, this is me, this is what you have — like I know I need to work on it, right? But also knowing that like it is legitimately a very challenging thing for my brain. It just is.

Kate: And if I could just jump in for one second because I've known Lori for a very long time. And so I think, Lori, I love to hear your story and I obviously know it pretty well. But I think the piece that Lori is not sharing is just that really a lot of the things that are hard for her also make her an amazing mom. And an amazing business owner.

I think showing up for your kids and apologizing and modeling that even for me — like we'll get on a call and Lori will be like, I was so frustrated this morning but I apologized to the girls and we made a plan. And that's something that I don't know, a lot of us I think didn't necessarily get modeled as kids. Like it wasn't — I don't know, our parents didn't apologize to us that much. It just wasn't something that really happened. Obviously there's going to be exceptions, but I think that is beautiful.

Lori: Kate's so sweet. She's like our cheerleader in the business and...

Jessica: We need cheerleaders! We need other parents to be our cheerleaders. And, Kate, I so agree with you. Our parents' generation — I mean, I'm a thousand years older than you — but all of our — like I also grew up with parents who didn't — it was considered weakness for a parent to apologize. There was that like, your parents are always right. And that is something, Lori, that I have done as well — like very much, it's been very important to me to be able to say like, hey, I'm not super proud of what I just did. And to be able to just say, this is how I feel and we can acknowledge and we can discuss and we can get past it. And that is a gift.

Kate: Yes, absolutely.

Jessica: But Kate, tell me about when did you get your diagnosis? Because I'm curious — was it before or after your kids were sort of aware of things?

Kate: So it was a couple of years ago, and my kids are 9 and 12 now. But for me, I didn't really have the same experience as Lori. My kids probably didn't experience the forgetfulness or like the checked-out piece. I think for me it was my inability to just sit with my kids and play and spend time because when you have these thoughts that are just racing in your mind all the time, it feels like you're never caught up.

And in motherhood especially, but even in work or whatever season of life you're in, there's definitely seasons where you just — there's just so much to do all the time. And so I think my kids if anything probably experienced me maybe feeling disconnected in a different way because they're like, mom can we go outside and play on the swings?

And I have to be so intentional, even now — and I do take medication, I have a lot of tools that I'm using — but even now to be like, yep, I'm going to not do any of these other things and I'm going to go on the swings with you. Because I'm like, oh the laundry's going to sit and I need to start dinner and I need to respond to this email, you know?

There's always something competing for my attention in that way. But I don't necessarily — I think they would have experienced it more just as like, mom is always doing stuff and probably a little — I don't think they would have had the word for this — but probably she's a little like anxious or frantic just in general. Yeah.

Jessica: Can you each think of a moment — I mean, regardless of what your children — how your children perceived something, but as you look back at your parenting, can you think of a moment pre-diagnosis where now you can look back in hindsight and say, oh, that was my ADHD?

Lori: I was just thinking about like my kids ice skate — like or they used to ice skate, they were figure skaters — and we went to competitions and that is like — ice skating requires a lot of executive functioning of scheduling ice time and lessons and that honestly was like completely overwhelming. But I remember we drove up to a competition in Flagstaff and we're in 5:00 traffic. We've already gone halfway there and I had like completely forgotten her costumes.

I forget and lose things all the time. My husband like put — for Mother's Day like two years ago — gave me AirTags, you know, or three years ago gave me AirTags because I lose my keys all the time and he's always like irritated by it.

Kate: Are we married to the same person?

Lori: I know! Apparently. Um, so losing and forgetting things I think just in general. But I remember that was a big one where we had to like turn around. We got in super late at night. My kids were just sobbing because like they'd already been in the car for like two hours, you know, and we're having to turn around. So that was a big one. How about you, Kate?

(14:42) The importance of self care and normalizing neurodivergence within the family.

Kate: I think it's hard for me to pinpoint a specific moment. I think there was a lot of moments where I feel like I could check all the boxes, right, and do all the things. So thinking about like early elementary age, you've got spirit week for the kids and it's teacher appreciation and they're like, Monday is plant day, so if you could bring a plant-themed gift for your teachers, you know?

And it was like all the things. And I think a lot of people who have ADHD would really struggle with that and would be like, oh I forgot to get the plant or I forgot to finish that task or it's in my car, I need to go back and get it. For me, it was like the opposite, where I was like, okay I have to write this all down, I have this list, and I just like ruthlessly worked on the list.

And I do remember one time there was a Hawaiian party for spirit week and I was in charge of decorations, and so, you know, I did all the things and got all the pieces and showed up. And I just remember being in the party and realizing like, I'm not having fun. Like my nervous system is so shot from baking those cupcakes and doing all the things and setting up this party.

And this is during a season when I was leaving a full-time job to focus my work on what we do at the Childhood Collective and I was so thankful that I was going from working 60 hours a week to like 20 hours a week and it felt like a huge breath of fresh air and I just wasn't — there just wasn't a lot of joy in that moment because I'm just — I'm so burnt out. Like I did all the things and now I just want to sit here and collapse.

And I think that's something that's really important for parents to realize. Like we just threw a movie night birthday for my daughter turning 12 and she was so excited and it meant so much to her. But I have to really recognize — like three years ago I would have been like, I'm not tired, I'm just going to keep going. I'm going to plan a luncheon. I'm going to do all these things.

And this year I was like, that takes a lot of executive functioning. That was a lot for me. And I loved the party. But I have to give myself grace and schedule some downtime and get to the gym and have time for myself. And I think before I was diagnosed, I just didn't really give myself space or room or really like any level of sympathy that I would give to a friend or someone else in the situation, you know? But it was really hard for me. I think I'm in a lot of ways like my own critic, you know? And she's — she's tough. Yeah.

Jessica: Do you think getting a diagnosis has changed how you parent?

Kate: I would say yes and no. Our whole like thing that we do is teaching parents how to help support kids with ADHD. And as a speech pathologist, which is my background, I had a lot of years in private practice. So teaching parents how to keep their own calm when their kids are upset, how to set up systems to support their kids with homework or organizing their room and different things like that.

And I always was able to implement those tools. I think where it's changed for me is more internal work. And it sounds kind of crazy and maybe it's my own black and white — like I needed to have the diagnosis to understand this part of myself. But for me it really was. It was a big change and it really helped me open my eyes to why things felt hard and then saying one step further like, it's okay. It's okay if everything's not perfect all the time and if, you know, your kids are loved, you're with them, you're reading books with them, the laundry can wait.

Jessica: Lori, how about you? I mean, it's been a year. Do you feel like it has changed your — your parenting?

Lori: Yeah, I think I'm the same as Kate in the sense that we kind of had a lot of the tools that we still use all the time — and we've been using since our kids were young. I think the difference is that — like kind of what I said before where I always put my kids' needs of like their therapies or all these things ahead of my own.

And I think that has shifted a little bit in the sense that like I'm realizing that if I don't take care of me and my own mental health, it's actually a problem for my parenting. Talking about my having ADHD instead of having shame about it — that's been really important and also important in like telling my kids what I need from them. Like, hey, you know, if you call mom's name, I'm not going to respond, but if you come over — same with my husband — if you come over and like physically touch me, like that's going to get my attention.

And I'm really sorry. Like I wish I could do better in shifting my attention, but it's very hard for me.

Jessica: Sometimes I have these conversations with my kids also and I'm like, same thing like my kids can be like mom, mom, mom, and it's and then they'll get so upset and angry. Do your kids — can they hear what you're saying of I'm not going to register if you call my name five times, come over and...?

Lori: It depends on the day. You know, sometimes they're just irritated and frustrated, same with my husband. Like if he's had a long day or whatever. And then other days they're like, okay, they sort of get it, especially if I relate it to something that's hard for them, you know?

Jessica: You both have kids who think differently and I'm curious if your own diagnoses sort of im — changed how you were able to view your kids and their diagnosis.

Lori: Yeah, I think — you know, my daughter as I've talked about has OCD and anxiety. I also have anxiety — I was diagnosed with social anxiety a few years ago. I can relate to my daughter a little bit better than sometimes my husband can where he will be like, she just spirals at night and she's doing it more intentionally, right, to like get out of going to bed.

And I can see it and I can see like, no, she really can't manage these worries and they come out at night.

Jessica: Yeah, and maybe it's not that she needs a strictness right now. She needs she might just need a like, you know, an understanding of like I — I get this.

Lori: Exactly.

Jessica: And Kate, for you since you have like the same diagnosis as your kids did your diagnosis sort of were you like, oh, I see I understand what's going on with them a little bit differently or did you already feel like you had that understanding?

Kate: I think yeah, I definitely think it was helpful for me and probably one of the biggest things is just around emotions. Growing up, I think when I had big feelings it was sort of like this idea of like, well you're such a happy kid. Like you're okay, you're fine, everything is safe — like and it was a lot of reassurance. And my parents had the absolute best of intentions — like they were trying to make me feel better.

And I think for me what that felt like as a young kid was like, oh I'm not really supposed to feel mad or sad or scared. Those just aren't as safe of feelings. And so for my own kids, just being able to hold space and say, yeah you are sad and I see that and you know what, it's okay to be sad and not feeling like I have to jump in to solve it right away.

Even though as a mom it is — like I want to solve the problem. I want to just say whatever I can say to make them feel better. But especially with my daughter who's getting older, she really does not want me, I don't think, to say let's fix it right now. Like she really just wants someone to be like, yeah, that is a huge bummer.

Jessica: Last question, I'm just so curious, do your kids — are they curious about your diagnosis? Do they ask you things about them?

Kate: Yeah, in my family I would say definitely yes. And one of the things we talk with parents about when they're talking to their kid about the child's diagnosis is to name some people that your child might look up to that have ADHD, right? So we think of like Simone Biles or Michael Phelps — like big names, big actors, things like that. And we kind of tried that and it — my kids really didn't care.

It was when I said, you know, Aunt Chrissy has ADHD. That they were like, what? Aunt Chrissy? And that's my sister. And they loved that. And so it's sort of like the lore in our family is that pretty much so many of us have ADHD. And it does look different in different generations, but even my kids will joke around like with my dad because, you know, he's in his 70s and we said, Dad you should, you know, take this quiz online and, you know, because of course he's like I'm not going to go see a doctor.

And so he starts to take the quiz and then the kids were asking him — they're like, did you take the ADHD quiz? And he's like, oh no. He's like, I got halfway through and then I just kind of lost interest. And you know, my sister and I are like, Dad, that's the quiz! Like that was the test! Like you definitely have ADHD!

Jessica: You passed!

Kate: Yes! And so, you know, but it's for us it's something that's very much a part of like many generations to say like, yeah and it's okay. And my family, you know, regardless of how you measure success or whatever, but we have a lot of really happy marriages and a lot of successful businesses that people have started and just, you know, in general I think they've overcome a lot with ADHD and and had, you know, many very fulfilling lives.

And so I think that's kind of beautiful that my kids do get to see that. I guess to fully answer your question, that makes my diagnosis maybe a little less special because that's very normalized in my family. Yeah, that's kind of our — our family story.

Jessica: Well, I think you're both wonderful. I think your podcast is wonderful, the work that you both do, both together and separately, is so important and so meaningful. And you're like role model parents, so I just, Kate and Lori, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to get to see you both.

Lori: It was so nice talking with you.

Kate: Yeah, this is lovely.

Jessica: Many thanks to Kate and Lori for joining me. You can hear more from the three of us over on their podcast, "Shining with ADHD". Thanks so much for listening. See you next time.

Thanks for listening to "Everyone Gets a Juice Box". Our show is hosted by me, Jessica Shaw. It's produced by Cody Nelson and video is produced by Calvin Knie and edited by Jessie DeMartino. Briana Berry is our production director and Neal Drummond is our editorial director.

If you have any questions for us or ideas for future episodes, write me an email or send a voice memo to podcast@understood.org. This show is brought to you by Understood.org. Our executive directors are Laura Key, Scott Cocchiere, and Jordan Davidson.

Understood.org is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If you want to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org/give.